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Spatts Snatch

Arioch

New member
The power snatch. For all intents and purposes, the power snatch described herein will refer to a snatch executed from the hang just above the knees and is caught with the athlete descending into no more than a quarter-squat. For a more in-depth review of the classic snatch, see:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=147084

Set up: . Arch the back. Grip at least one and a half times shoulder width, and use a hook grip. Make sure the arms are straight, flex the triceps if necessary, as pulling with bent arms can lead to elbow injuries and bicep tears. To determine a decent starting grip, extend the arms out toward the sides of the body, perpindicular to the deck. Bend the arms at a 90 degree angle at the elbow joint, and grip the bar at this point. If the bar were held overhead with this grip, when the upper arm is parallel to the deck, the forearm will be perpendicular. The elbows should be rotated outward. The bar should be about mid-thigh level, what is generally thought of as the initiation point of the fourth phase during the snatch pull. The torso should be inclined between 10 – 25 degrees toward the deck. The shoulders should be back, but not severely retracted, as this will detract from the initial burst of power required to successfully execute this lift. The knees should be slightly bent, generally to about the same degree which the torso is inclined.

Start: Two methods. One is from the dead hang, and this is for the more advanced athlete. The most basic involves a slight bending of the knees and further inclination of the torso, which will allow the bar to descend to a certain degree. At no time should the bar drop below the top of the knee, and generally no more than one-third of the way up the thigh. The athlete then straightens the knee and hip joints explosively, rather like a vertical jump, and then shrugs powerfully with the trapezius. The vast majority of the power generated in this lift is generated in this first instant, with power further generated by the hips, hamstrings, and erectors as the torso hyperextends to a slight degree. There will be a small amount of pulling power generated by the arms, but it is minimal.

Finishing the Pull: As the arms bend, it is important to ensure that the elbows are pulled not only up, but out away from the body. This will allow the bar to travel in a much straighter line, as well as ensuring that the shoulders rotate smoothly as the bar passes overhead. Ideally, the forearms will remain perpendicular to the deck until the upper arm is parallel to the platform. At this point, the bar will begin to rotate, and the arms will serve to merely guide the barbell along a trajectory that enables the athlete to prepare to catch the bar.

Receiving: Catching the bar is more than just allowing the elbows and wrists to turn over. It also involves catching the bar at full extension, as catching the bar with the elbows bent can make it difficult to stabilize the bar overhead. To make this process easier, there is a slight dip executed with the knees and hips where the lifter descends into no more than a quarter squat, pulling under the bar slightly. The bar should be caught in line with the back of the head, in line with the hips and heels.

Recovery and Rising. Much simpler than in the classic snatch, the bar is simply held in the receiving position, with a slight emphasis on pulling the bar apart with the hands to ensure tension in the upper back, and the elbows rotated slightly forward. The lifter will then straighten the knees and hips, returning to a fully erect position.

Purpose: The actual purpose of this lift is to increase the pulling power of the athlete, particularly the second pull, as well as enhance the athlete’s ability to receive the bar. This has the function of significantly working the musculature of the entire upper back, such as the trapezius, rhomboids, levator scapulae, etc. as well as the posterior and medial deltoids. This exercise also has the significant training effect of strengthening the external rotators, a much neglected area in many training programs, and the cause of a great deal of shoulder pain and discomfort. The common execution of this lift is one of the reasons that when Olympic weightlifting was the rule rather than the exception, there were far fewer shoulders injuries. (For the trivia-minded, the other general reasons was that the press (as in clean and press) was held as the standard of strength, and a great deal of time was spent developing overhead pressing power, not utilizing the bench press, which will significantly work the external rotators, but will not stress the external.
 
Since the shit for brains microdiety the computer gods have assigned to screw up my every attempt at graphics is back from his vacation to the place where they manufacture navel lint, I must refer to another post for graphical assistance:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=112897&highlight=Snatch

This lift should start like figure three, move smoothly through figure four, and be caught like figure six. At no time should the athlete descend into a full squat style snatch.
 
spatterson said:
Arioch, I did them again today, without the little squat. I tried rotating my elbows out like you said, and found that it's more comfortable and I can do some weight. I also found that rather than keeping my arms straight to bring the bar down, dropping it down to my chest, and then back down to the hang (like a hang clean in reverse) puts NO stress on my shoulder. I really like this move. It's hard to keep it light. :)

Patience grasshopper....you have made it through the last two workouts without pain. We are on the right track...don't get ahead of yourself by overdoing it.

You shoulder didn't hurt today....today was a good day.

:)
 
That's what I've been doing, but without the squat (not even a 1/4 squat). Is there some physics type reason I should squat, or is that just to propell the motion and get under the bar when it's heavy?

Just to get the bar started with a little more snap, as well as to give you more time to get under it, making the catch a little bit easier.

I tried rotating my elbows out like you said, and found that it's more comfortable and I can do some weight. I also found that rather than keeping my arms straight to bring the bar down, dropping it down to my chest, and then back down to the hang (like a hang clean in reverse) puts NO stress on my shoulder. I really like this move. It's hard to keep it light.

I am glad you are working on this, and yes, most people lower the bar in the manner you describe. I do not, but then there are freakish anatomical reasons why this is so.

Keep it light. A little technical screw up at this point would more than likely be caused by adding weight too fast. And better to avoid bad habits in the first place rather than try to correct them later.
 
spatterson said:
I would just like to say that adding the squat to the snatch is very dynamic, and if unprepared it can yield flying barbells.

;)

Did you just try those out...would have paid to seen that...or are you talking about yesterday? Of course with all the explosiveness you have developed with the bands.....when you take the bands off....BAM!!!
 
spatterson said:
I did them here at the house. Was rigging the active recovery motion for the hang snatch, when I decided to test a "speed snatch" with the bands. Took the bands off, and added the squat, and the bar went flying behind me. I had to let go of it or my arms we're going to fly back past my shoulder. Cement floor...was a bit loud. The bar goes up faster and you get under faster when you add that little 1/4 squat. Might actually be safer WITH weight.

Thats the only thing that I was worried about with that movement..is that you would get the barbell moving so fast that it would go too far behind you. SO GLAD you let go. It might be somewhat safer with weight...as long as you stay in control.

Glad you're ok :)
 
spatterson said:
Aw....look! It's Miss Karly and Hannibal! :kiss: Better than that..what did Nightfly call it?...that freaky Picasso looking avatar you had. :lmao: I got her back, don't worry. :lmao:

You finally caught the avatar change? Yeah I had to put Miss Karly in my avatar for awhile. I love that freaky Picasso lookin avatar as well....might have to alternate back and forth.



:angel:
 
I would just like to say that adding the squat to the snatch is very dynamic, and if unprepared it can yield flying barbells.

I actually did this with a fair amount of weight at my first meet when warming up. Long story. May send it to you later time permitting.



Arioch...what the next basic OL move to learn?

Overhead squats, as you already know how to front squat, I am assuming. Then the power clean from the hang. Ordinarily this would be next, but you should work on strengthening your shoulder some more first, as racking the clean not only requires shoulder strength, but both stability and flexibility as well.
 
Oh, since you are, well, you, you might get the idea of using the bands on the OL's to add resistance. Do not do this. It is next to impossible to control the weight on the negative if you are doing this, and the results can be incredibly painful.
 
Yup. Although it is possible to sit much lower. I do.

Concentrate on trying to pull the bar apart with your arms, and experiment with the direction your elbows are rotated, as this will effect stability. Keep the reps low. The CNS is the first thing to go on this lift, and form goes right in the toilet. I generally do sets of two reps. Three to five is okay at first, while you are using a broomstick, but think nothing of doing this exercise like dynamic squat or bench day.

This lift is great for the rhomboids, as they are used extensively to maintain bar position.
 
As far as squat...I can squat down with my tush against my heels without losing balance, but is lower necessarily better? What would be the advantage of going lower?

Well, if you actually plan on learning the complete lift, the lower you can squat to receive the bar, the less effort you have to put into pulling it. And as your torso is long, the goal should be to get as low as possible. Rather like arching to decrease your bench stroke.

As for phsyiological reasons, not much, execept if you go really low, it forces you to arch even more to keep the bar in line with your hips, and practicing this arch can help your other lifts.
 
Not really. The hamsting is pretty well enaged, and is even more enervated the greater the degree of your arch, and this serves to protect the patella through co-contration. The weight used is much lighter than in the clean, and especially in the squat. To give you and idea, I did quite well on this lift, yet it was not even 60% of my squat, when comparing 1rm to 1rm.

If it hurts your knees, of course, only go as low as you can. Ankle flexiblity plays a key role here.
 
I can go all the way down without it bothering my knee, especially if I'm pressing my knees out, like in box squat. I just don't want it to START bothering my knee. My knees are directly over my ankles when I sit bottom to the floor. I'm assuming that's where they're supposed to be? Not forward at all? Seems that alone would reduce alot of the knee problems.

This is a good thing. My knees go forward more when I acutally squat style snatch, but still without difficult. Sounds like you are blessed with a great ability to receive in the snatch.

OMG...look at her left elbow!

Not too many people are blessed with that combination of flexiblity and strength. As you have probably wasted quite a bit of time in your wicked past doing curls, you would really, really have to work at the flexilibity that entails, and I do not really recommend it.
 
Arioch said:

Sounds like you are blessed with a great ability to receive in the snatch.

:p

please forgive my immaturity...
 
The power snatch, and the power clean, for that matter, is generally held to be executed with the athlete descending into no more than a quarter squat to catch the bar. This means it must be pulled much higher, which is the goal of the power versions of these lifts: increasing skill specific pulling power.

Really blasts the upper back.
 
On the overhead squat, for me to truly judge, the camera angle needs to be better. It should be in line with the hips, and it looks a little forward, but it could be the angle. Camera should be straight in from the side.

If at first it feels like you are going to drop the bar in back of you, it is probably correct. It is very important to arch in the bottom. This recruits the hamstrings, and allows them to assist in the drive out of the hole.
 
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