I appreciate the info John. It probably is real but I haven't detected any changes yet. I have taken 3 shots now in a 17 day period. I was fairly big to begin with, so maybe it will take more to work on me. Bye the way I gained my current size just using creatine and 19 norandrio and I know 19 andriol works because i stayed on it so long that I noticed that I was having a problem maintaining an erection. I had my testoserone level checked and it was 140, well below normal. After 3 months off the 19 andriol, I had it tested again and it came back to 400. If this shit doesn't work any better than this, I'm going to give it at least 12 weeks and if it hasn't kicked in by then, it ain't going to. I will just go back to the andriol. I was hoping that I would get a lot out of this since I got a decent boost from something as mild as norandro. I will keep all interested informed.