Some new PRs, but also stuck on other stuff

[Lee]

Well I hit 525 on Barbell Shrug. Also used 110's on Incline DB Press. BB Rowed 265. DB Rowed with a 105. Also finally got my ass into weighted dips and used a 35lb plate at a bodyweight of 250.

Anyways, my bench is still stuck at 235. Ive tried heavy triples, high rep sets, and the standard 3 sets of 8. My incline DB is steadily going up so I started doing that first off instead of flat bench. I've been searching the boards and the web for ideas and am just lost at the moment. Would like to get some of you heavy benchers to give me some advice. Thanks bros.

 

[SouthernLord]

Where does the lift stall? Lockout? Off your chest? Mid range?

 

[Lee]

off my chest. ive had trouble with increasing my bench since i tore a pec last year. going down to my chest usually hurts so i typically stop my rep 1 inch off my chest to avoid the pain.

 

[fortunatesun]

off my chest. ive had trouble with increasing my bench since i tore a pec last year. going down to my chest usually hurts so i typically stop my rep 1 inch off my chest to avoid the pain.

I guess pause presses are out then.

Why not try accomodating resistance? Get a pair of mini-bands. They will lighten the load at the bottom. Or actually it would only be the reduced bar weight. This gives you a 'running start' on your way up which becomes heavier as the bands tighten. The speed translates to increased power which can help you get the bar moving up from your chest. You've just got to keep good intensity on your set.

I'm not a big bencher either. These are the 2 ways that I've found to be actually useful in helping my sticking point at the lower third.

 

[sparkie34]

Start some heavy work on the triceps and that should help you get out of the hole better.

 

[Lee]

would it help if i did some low weight short reps, perhaps from chest to about 3 inches off chest, to try to get past the pain in my pec from the old rip?

 

[ceo]

what were you doing when you tore your pec last year?

 

[homeslizzle1985]

Before I lost weight and hurt my shoulder, I benched 162 kg. Following is the most helpful advice I can propose.

Here is the most important question you should ask yourself:

If touching your chest hurts, then why keep chasing a big bench?

If you are a competitive powerlifter, then it's understandable. To fix a lagging bench, use the Westside template and go shirted for full ROM bench press. Otherwise, do board presses, floorpresses, and rack lockouts. Your bench WILL go up. 3 sets of 8 will not increase your bench press if you are not a newbie.

However, if you are NOT a competitive PLer, then why bother with benching if it hurts like shit? Continuing to bench with pain will eventually lead to more and/or greater injuries due to overcompensation and muscle imbalances that will inevitably arise, which could very well lead to not being able to lift anything. To me and a lot of others, bench press is reserved for powerlifters and people that don't realize that it is a USELESS exercise outside of PLing. Looking for size? There are a lot of other more functional movements that have the same benefits as benching and won't aggravate a previously torn pec.

The bottom line is: why bench if you're not competing?

 

[Lee]

homeslizzle, i bench because i like it. but i also see your point. i dont compete and have no intention of ever competing. in that case, what would you recommend i do to replace bench?

 

[homeslizzle1985]

I really understand where you're coming from - we're all taught that the bench press is the measure of a man and then we get to where we really enjoy the lift - two things that make dropping it really difficult (trust me, I loved it too).

Replacements would depend on what your goals are. I don't know anything about your history, progress, or future intentions.

But whatever your goals are, the choice is really up to you; if you're just lifting for fun and staying healthy and active, then I would basically suggest doing whatever doesn't hurt. If your pec is the source of pain, then I would suggest moving the emphasis to shoulders with some tricep assistance. Honestly, I don't really see any point in chest isolation exercises if you're not a bodybuilder (and by bodybuilder, I mean one that competes, not someone who just wants to take AAS and look big). And trust me, OH BB presses are sooo much harder and more impressive than bench; people who bench 235 are a dime a dozen, but people who can push 235 overhead are fucking men.

Moving focus to more functional areas (e.g. back, shoulders, posterior chain muscles) will not only make you stronger, it will greatly reduce risk of future injuries.

Plus, who looks bigger/stronger/better: a guy with a wide, thick back and massive delts or a guy with a regular back, average shoulders, and pecs that obscure his view of his yogurt-slinger?? I hope you pick #1.

 

[ceo]

what were you doing when you tore your pec last year?

I'm guessing you were doing flat bench press when you tore your pec. 99% of the time that's the case...yet people still do this exercise.

 

[djeclipse]

I really understand where you're coming from - we're all taught that the bench press is the measure of a man and then we get to where we really enjoy the lift - two things that make dropping it really difficult (trust me, I loved it too).

Replacements would depend on what your goals are. I don't know anything about your history, progress, or future intentions.

But whatever your goals are, the choice is really up to you; if you're just lifting for fun and staying healthy and active, then I would basically suggest doing whatever doesn't hurt. If your pec is the source of pain, then I would suggest moving the emphasis to shoulders with some tricep assistance. Honestly, I don't really see any point in chest isolation exercises if you're not a bodybuilder (and by bodybuilder, I mean one that competes, not someone who just wants to take AAS and look big). And trust me, OH BB presses are sooo much harder and more impressive than bench; people who bench 235 are a dime a dozen, but people who can push 235 overhead are fucking men.

Moving focus to more functional areas (e.g. back, shoulders, posterior chain muscles) will not only make you stronger, it will greatly reduce risk of future injuries.

Plus, who looks bigger/stronger/better: a guy with a wide, thick back and massive delts or a guy with a regular back, average shoulders, and pecs that obscure his view of his yogurt-slinger?? I hope you pick #1.

Bench press is not a chest isolation exercise. If done properly you will recruit chest, shoulders and back (lats etc.). Isolation chest exercises are more like cable crap and flies. The flat bench is the best way to develop pressing strength, that is why we do it.

I agree about the OHP thing though.

 

[JimBoy]

I really understand where you're coming from - we're all taught that the bench press is the measure of a man and then we get to where we really enjoy the lift - two things that make dropping it really difficult (trust me, I loved it too).

Replacements would depend on what your goals are. I don't know anything about your history, progress, or future intentions.

But whatever your goals are, the choice is really up to you; if you're just lifting for fun and staying healthy and active, then I would basically suggest doing whatever doesn't hurt. If your pec is the source of pain, then I would suggest moving the emphasis to shoulders with some tricep assistance. Honestly, I don't really see any point in chest isolation exercises if you're not a bodybuilder (and by bodybuilder, I mean one that competes, not someone who just wants to take AAS and look big). And trust me, OH BB presses are sooo much harder and more impressive than bench; people who bench 235 are a dime a dozen, but people who can push 235 overhead are fucking men.

Moving focus to more functional areas (e.g. back, shoulders, posterior chain muscles) will not only make you stronger, it will greatly reduce risk of future injuries.

Plus, who looks bigger/stronger/better: a guy with a wide, thick back and massive delts or a guy with a regular back, average shoulders, and pecs that obscure his view of his yogurt-slinger?? I hope you pick #1.

OK..Who looks bigger/stronger/better: a guy w/ a wide thick back and massive delts, or a guy w/ a wide thick back massive delts and a big developed chest? It sounds like you are saying that if he works on his chest he will be neglecting back and delts, which in many of our cases is not so.
I do agree heavy OH presses are impressive and if I were to choose 1 over the other I would rather have shoulders/delts than chest.

If you tore your pec last year perhaps you shouldn't worry as much about numbers. With that said I still feel chest exercises are important for composition/looks, but you don't have to go too heavy.

 

[homeslizzle1985]

To clarify:
I know that benching is not an isolation exercise.

Lee had asked what alternatives I could suggest instead of bench pressing; what I meant to convey was that chest isolation exercises, such as flyes, pec deck, DB pullovers, cable cross-overs, etc, are pointless if you're not a competitive bodybuilder. Even most real bodybuilders don't make isolation movements the emphasis of their programs - they are ACCESSORY movements to compound chest/shoulder/tri movements. Thus, if someone couldn't do any horizontal presses, such as flat, decline, or incline bench press, then I think they would really be wasting their time doing a bunch of isolation movements.

The whole point I am trying to make is this: if your pec hurts bad enough to limit your ROM when doing a flat bench press, then why continue trying to get a bigger bench press if you aren't going to compete?? You WILL re-injure yourself (or injure something else due to overcompensation) and then you could not only destroy your chances of getting a bigger bench, but also risk not being able to do any upper body stuff at all.

I suppose I am going to have a different perspective than most because I lift with the main focus being competition preparation; if something doesn't seem conducive to my competitive goals, then I won't do it. Thus, as I don't PL anymore, bench pressing is useless to me - there isn't much benefit I can get out of doing it.

 

[djeclipse]

To clarify:
I know that benching is not an isolation exercise.

Lee had asked what alternatives I could suggest instead of bench pressing; what I meant to convey was that chest isolation exercises, such as flyes, pec deck, DB pullovers, cable cross-overs, etc, are pointless if you're not a competitive bodybuilder. Even most real bodybuilders don't make isolation movements the emphasis of their programs - they are ACCESSORY movements to compound chest/shoulder/tri movements. Thus, if someone couldn't do any horizontal presses, such as flat, decline, or incline bench press, then I think they would really be wasting their time doing a bunch of isolation movements.

The whole point I am trying to make is this: if your pec hurts bad enough to limit your ROM when doing a flat bench press, then why continue trying to get a bigger bench press if you aren't going to compete?? You WILL re-injure yourself (or injure something else due to overcompensation) and then you could not only destroy your chances of getting a bigger bench, but also risk not being able to do any upper body stuff at all.

I suppose I am going to have a different perspective than most because I lift with the main focus being competition preparation; if something doesn't seem conducive to my competitive goals, then I won't do it. Thus, as I don't PL anymore, bench pressing is useless to me - there isn't much benefit I can get out of doing it.

I understand what you are saying.

So you used to Power lift and now you're getting into competative body building?

You say bench doesn't benefit you now, but all that benching while you were doing PL has built you a solid base including chest.

So while you may not need to bench any more as you've already built some size in your chest, someone just starting out that doesn't have that base will need some kind of bench press exercise, as your chest will not get bigger by doing overhead press.

I may be in that boat as I may have added weight to my bench and over head press to fast after being off for a year, now I haven't been able to do any press for about a month now. My chest seems to be getting better, but my shoulder is still in pain.

 

[homeslizzle1985]

Oh no, not me! I have never taken AAS (nor shall I) and so I will never be or try to be a bodybuilder. I did PL, but Strongman is much more fun and functional. I'm going to start Olympic lifting at the end of the summer to increase explosiveness for Strongman.

I keep saying stuff about bodybuilding because it seems that most folks on these boards are into training for aesthetics, i.e. looks, size, etc. I just think that if you are not a competitive bodybuilder, not being able to bench press isn't the end of the world for your physique.

 

[fortunatesun]

would it help if i did some low weight short reps, perhaps from chest to about 3 inches off chest, to try to get past the pain in my pec from the old rip?

Yes. Working a muscle should help it heal faster than not working it. It should be a little bit over the midway point of your pain threshold- hurting halfway. Doing your reps fast should also help. You can do this 4-5 times a week for best results.

If it were me, I'd still try to include a full ROM. Maybe those 1&1/2 presses.
Or you could work in the rack with the pins 3" your chest to keep the barbell from travelling too far

Good thread. I like the issues raised about the importance of doing bench press. It seems sort of a fundamental type movement. There's endless variations, including push ups. I guess it doesn't hurt to find out if there's something better.

 

[djeclipse]

Oh no, not me! I have never taken AAS (nor shall I) and so I will never be or try to be a bodybuilder. I did PL, but Strongman is much more fun and functional. I'm going to start Olympic lifting at the end of the summer to increase explosiveness for Strongman.

Who said anything about AAS? Do you think powerlifters, and stong man don't take AAS? There are AAS in pretty much every sport, including olympic lifting.

I keep saying stuff about bodybuilding because it seems that most folks on these boards are into training for aesthetics, i.e. looks, size, etc. I just think that if you are not a competitive bodybuilder, not being able to bench press isn't the end of the world for your physique.

I just can't stand the term Bodybuilder, lol But I still stand by what I said, bench press is the best way to develop pressing strength, which in turn develops the chesticles. It's hard to not do it when first starting out as it is the best possible exercise for chest.

 

[homeslizzle1985]

Who said anything about AAS? Do you think powerlifters, and stong man don't take AAS? There are AAS in pretty much every sport, including olympic lifting.



I just can't stand the term Bodybuilder, lol But I still stand by what I said, bench press is the best way to develop pressing strength, which in turn develops the chesticles. It's hard to not do it when first starting out as it is the best possible exercise for chest.

Yeah, I see how that sounds...let me clarify:
1. There is no possible way to ever compete seriously in bodybuilding without steroids. End of story. You can not win any bodybuilding show without juice, not even local ones.
2. Yeah, a ton (I would say 9/10) of elite level athletes in strongman and powerlifting use steroids. But on the local and state level, after many, many years of training, there is a chance of winning without steroids. Being competitive without 'roids takes years longer than someone using them, but I think it's well worth the wait.

 

[djeclipse]

Yeah, I see how that sounds...let me clarify:
1. There is no possible way to ever compete seriously in bodybuilding without steroids. End of story. You can not win any bodybuilding show without juice, not even local ones.
2. Yeah, a ton (I would say 9/10) of elite level athletes in strongman and powerlifting use steroids. But on the local and state level, after many, many years of training, there is a chance of winning without steroids. Being competitive without 'roids takes years longer than someone using them, but I think it's well worth the wait.

But the same thing can be said about power lifting and strongman. If you want to compete at any level you're going up against guys that are on AAS. No matter what level you're competing at. AAS is not more present in bodybuilding, then powerlifting or strongman.

The only reason people think there is more AAS use in bodybuilding is because they are at a very low BF, and that is why the general public thinks the typical "JUICE HEAD looks like. But the truth is there is just as much AAS use in Power lifting/ Strongman.

 

[searay]

is that you in the avitar ? you must be like 6'10" to weigh 250lbs.......

 

[Lee]

that is me in the avatar, 5 years ago at a bodyweight of 220. thanks for the smartass comment though.

 

[thebadguy54]

I really understand where you're coming from - we're all taught that the bench press is the measure of a man and then we get to where we really enjoy the lift - two things that make dropping it really difficult (trust me, I loved it too).

Replacements would depend on what your goals are. I don't know anything about your history, progress, or future intentions.

But whatever your goals are, the choice is really up to you; if you're just lifting for fun and staying healthy and active, then I would basically suggest doing whatever doesn't hurt. If your pec is the source of pain, then I would suggest moving the emphasis to shoulders with some tricep assistance. Honestly, I don't really see any point in chest isolation exercises if you're not a bodybuilder (and by bodybuilder, I mean one that competes, not someone who just wants to take AAS and look big). And trust me, OH BB presses are sooo much harder and more impressive than bench; people who bench 235 are a dime a dozen, but people who can push 235 overhead are fucking men.

Moving focus to more functional areas (e.g. back, shoulders, posterior chain muscles) will not only make you stronger, it will greatly reduce risk of future injuries.

Plus, who looks bigger/stronger/better: a guy with a wide, thick back and massive delts or a guy with a regular back, average shoulders, and pecs that obscure his view of his yogurt-slinger?? I hope you pick #1.

Great post bro. I couldn't agree more.

Replace BP's with standing overhead presses, push presses and push jerks.

When you can push jerk 300lbs. nobody will care what you bench.

 

[Lee]

would there be doing any point to doing OHP, push presses, and push jerks in the same workout? They're all basically the same movement.

 

[searay]

that is me in the avatar, 5 years ago at a bodyweight of 220. thanks for the smartass comment though.

better than being a dumbass....

im just sick of seeing the bullshit and posts that just dont add up. why would you post a pic of yourself from 5 yrs ago when you now weight 30lbs more and would obviously look much more impressive if you actually gained 30lbs of muscle. is it because you gained 30lbs of fat ? i weight 230lbs at 5'10" so i have a pretty good idea of what a person needs to look like to weigh 250lbs. from the looks of your avitar you would have to be very tall to even weigh 220lbs. im not saying you look bad because you dont but your pic and your stats dont add up and the lifts you are posting dont either. you can shrug over 500lbs ? at my height and weight i have never shrugged or even attempted to shrug 500lbs. whatever.....post a pic of yourself today at your claimed weight of 250lbs and if it adds up ill appologize. if not, then try telling the truth from now on.

 

[ceo]

better than being a dumbass....

im just sick of seeing the bullshit and posts that just dont add up. why would you post a pic of yourself from 5 yrs ago when you now weight 30lbs more and would obviously look much more impressive if you actually gained 30lbs of muscle. is it because you gained 30lbs of fat ? i weight 230lbs at 5'10" so i have a pretty good idea of what a person needs to look like to weigh 250lbs. from the looks of your avitar you would have to be very tall to even weigh 220lbs. im not saying you look bad because you dont but your pic and your stats dont add up and the lifts you are posting dont either. you can shrug over 500lbs ? at my height and weight i have never shrugged or even attempted to shrug 500lbs. whatever.....post a pic of yourself today at your claimed weight of 250lbs and if it adds up ill appologize. if not, then try telling the truth from now on.

I'm 6'2" and 220 lbs. I can shrug over 500 lbs for reps (although I haven't done shrugs since I weighed 210 lbs, 6 months ago. I can deadlift over 500lbs for reps too. Some people have stronger lifts than others who may be close to the same size.

Lee's had that avatar for as long as I can remember bro. Same one for years now. Maybe changing it just isn't high on his priority list. Maybe he doesn't give a fuck what someone on the internet thinks about how he looks or should look. Sounds like he's just looking for some advice and options.

 

[Lee]

searay im not going to sit here and try to impress you because you dont believe me. i could give a fuck less what you think. i dont post on here to pad my ego, i post here to learn as much as i can. if you dont think i really weigh 250 pounds, thats fine. i never once said i weighed 250 pounds of solid muscle so im not sure where your little flame fest comes from. the reason i dont change my avatar is because i dont own a digital camera or a webcam.

 

[Lee]

so after reading all the opinions on this post, im gonna try my new routine today with the base of it being Push Presses.

Im thinking something like this.
Push Press: 3x8
Incline DB Press: 3x8
Seated OHP: 3x8
Skulls: 3x8
Weighted Dips: 3x8

I'll see how this goes. If I don't like the amount of presses I'll replace/remove some of the lifts. Maybe after a few months off of Flat Bench I'll put it back into my routine.

 

[djeclipse]

better than being a dumbass....

im just sick of seeing the bullshit and posts that just dont add up. why would you post a pic of yourself from 5 yrs ago when you now weight 30lbs more and would obviously look much more impressive if you actually gained 30lbs of muscle. is it because you gained 30lbs of fat ? i weight 230lbs at 5'10" so i have a pretty good idea of what a person needs to look like to weigh 250lbs. from the looks of your avitar you would have to be very tall to even weigh 220lbs. im not saying you look bad because you dont but your pic and your stats dont add up and the lifts you are posting dont either. you can shrug over 500lbs ? at my height and weight i have never shrugged or even attempted to shrug 500lbs. whatever.....post a pic of yourself today at your claimed weight of 250lbs and if it adds up ill appologize. if not, then try telling the truth from now on.

What's your problem?

Why do you care what his pic looks like, are you gay for him or something?

What does his pic have to do with this thread or anything he said?

Are you king of all lifts, if you can't do something no one can? Are you really going to come on here being so arrogant to tell everyone else here that if you can't do a lift no one can?

If you can't shrug 500, maybe it's time to start lifting like a man with proper training.

Don't be so ignorant dude.

 

[Lee]

had a hard time lifting today. not sure why but i felt really weak and shaky during my workout.

First time ever doing push presses and i got 165 for 3 sets of 8. Then went to incline DBs and did 3 sets of 10 with 100's. I didnt wanna go high since i was feeling so odd. Did weighted dips with 55 pounds on the belt. Skipped on skulls for CG Bench with 3 speeds sets of 10 with 165. After this I felt like passing out so I called it a day. Hopefully next time I wont feel like ass and put up some more weight.

 

[ceo]

had a hard time lifting today. not sure why but i felt really weak and shaky during my workout.

First time ever doing push presses and i got 165 for 3 sets of 8. Then went to incline DBs and did 3 sets of 10 with 100's. I didnt wanna go high since i was feeling so odd. Did weighted dips with 55 pounds on the belt. Skipped on skulls for CG Bench with 3 speeds sets of 10 with 165. After this I felt like passing out so I called it a day. Hopefully next time I wont feel like ass and put up some more weight.

when this happens to me it's usually that I haven't eaten enough prior to my workout.

 

[djeclipse]

so after reading all the opinions on this post, im gonna try my new routine today with the base of it being Push Presses.

Im thinking something like this.
Push Press: 3x8
Incline DB Press: 3x8
Seated OHP: 3x8
Skulls: 3x8
Weighted Dips: 3x8

I'll see how this goes. If I don't like the amount of presses I'll replace/remove some of the lifts. Maybe after a few months off of Flat Bench I'll put it back into my routine.

If you have push press and incline DB's. whay do you need seated OHP? The push press and incline Db's should be more then enough to work the shoulders. The push press alone is probably enough.

 

[Sculelos]

Have you tried Flat dumbbell press? May be worth a shot as many people seem to like it and it's a decent replacement for Barbell Bench. It's a lot harder to get into position though. At least for me it is.

 

[Lee]

djeclipse, i nixxed the seated OHP for close grip bench.

sculelos, im gonna avoid any flat work for a while and maybe incorporate it back into my workouts in a couple of months.

 

[searay]

What's your problem?

Why do you care what his pic looks like, are you gay for him or something?

What does his pic have to do with this thread or anything he said?

Are you king of all lifts, if you can't do something no one can? Are you really going to come on here being so arrogant to tell everyone else here that if you can't do a lift no one can?

If you can't shrug 500, maybe it's time to start lifting like a man with proper training.

Don't be so ignorant dude.

u sound like the gay boy sticking up for your boyfriend.

and what the hell does "are you the king of all lifts, if you cant do something no one can" mean? if no one can do something and i cant do it either then im the king ? OK !!!

gatta go do some proper training so i can learn how to jerk 5oolbs up a couple centimeters and call it a shrug so i can be a man.

as far as im concerned, if you cant get your facts straight then what good does any advice do ? thats the problem............

 

[ceo]

gatta go do some proper training so i can learn how to jerk 5oolbs up a couple centimeters and call it a shrug so i can be a man.

try to deadlift 500 first.

 

[djeclipse]

u sound like the gay boy sticking up for your boyfriend.

and what the hell does "are you the king of all lifts, if you cant do something no one can" mean? if no one can do something and i cant do it either then im the king ? OK !!!

gatta go do some proper training so i can learn how to jerk 5oolbs up a couple centimeters and call it a shrug so i can be a man.

as far as im concerned, if you cant get your facts straight then what good does any advice do ? thats the problem............

My point is that you are very ignorant in your postings here.

You seem to think the world revolves around you and just because you can't do something no one else can do it either. That is simply ignorant and arrogant.

You are no one, you don't set the standard for anyone but yourself. Just because you can't shrug 500lbs does not mean lee or anyone else here can't do it.

You simply look like a fool when you post like that.

Take your best lift, deadlift, bench, what ever it is and I guarantee there is someone here that weight's less that can lift more then you.

 

[Lee]

funny how you attack my range of motion searay. how the fuck would you know how i lift?

stupid ass troll stay off my posts. youre a pathetic internet badass.

 

[searay]

funny how you attack my range of motion searay. how the fuck would you know how i lift?

stupid ass troll stay off my posts. youre a pathetic internet badass.

when i first saw the original post my initila reaction was how can someone who has been lifting for a number of years not even able to bencjh his own weight. then i scanned through the replies and saw work out advice and completely missed the torn pec. so im thinking this guy is obviously an ectomorph by the looks of your avitar, not a bad thing as im an endo and would give my left nut to be an ecto if that was the only other choice as i am so sick of watching my diet. anyway my reaction to the psot of i cant bench 235 but i can lift a ton on the rest and only seeing responses of change your training im thinking if this guy would only be truthful about the fact that hes a hard gainer, remember i missed the torn pec part, he would get the advice he really needs to eat more and cut back on the training . and having a bad day it really pissed me off that people were giving out advice that just didnt make sense. my bad and i appologize. sucks about the injury cause i too love to bench. i have a strain in the front section of my upper thigh close to my groin that i injured 2 years ago and little by little it continues to get worse. so bad to the point that i hobble around some days so i know what an injury does to you. gues i should read post a little better before i go off on a rant. appologies to all.................

 

[ceo]

good going on the apology. When things don't make sense, it would be good practice for all of us to see if we missed something in a previous post before posting. And then let's try to be civil when we do post so we can avoid the foot in the mouth syndrome.

 

[djeclipse]

good going on the apology. When things don't make sense, it would be good practice for all of us to see if we missed something in a previous post before posting. And then let's try to be civil when we do post so we can avoid the foot in the mouth syndrome.

But what fun is that?