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New member
Nathan said:
Some things never change.
Some things never change.
F
Frackal
Guest
Actually I'm mainly waiting for HS and Code's responses..
The basic premise is, by what method, force, cause, whatever cells evovle from the believed simple single celled organism into a massive eco system that functions with incredible effiency, beauty and IMO genius of construct and design.... I mean look at DNA itself...it is a massive database of traits and characteristics, organizational specifications and commands, which is read by a non intelligent entity, the cell.. and the result of which an entire organism is constructed that performs a mindblowing array of complex tasks each second of each hour of each day....
My question to athiests is:
- Do you believe there is a force driving this occurence?
or
- Do you believe its just a simple process of elimination and mutations as testosterone boy described above?
The basic premise is, by what method, force, cause, whatever cells evovle from the believed simple single celled organism into a massive eco system that functions with incredible effiency, beauty and IMO genius of construct and design.... I mean look at DNA itself...it is a massive database of traits and characteristics, organizational specifications and commands, which is read by a non intelligent entity, the cell.. and the result of which an entire organism is constructed that performs a mindblowing array of complex tasks each second of each hour of each day....
My question to athiests is:
- Do you believe there is a force driving this occurence?
or
- Do you believe its just a simple process of elimination and mutations as testosterone boy described above?
plornive
New member
It seems like you are asking about how/why it is possible that a seemingly intelligent being can be made up of unintelligent components. It also seems you are inferring some kind of intelligent design, but I'm not sure --- maybe you are just asking the question with a completely open mind. Lastly, it seems your questions involve consciousness.
Firstly, look at evolution by natural selection. This is an intelligent system, with simple components that seemingly completely explain it. There are artificial life computer programs that behave as expected (albeit in a more simple manner than the complicated world), based on evolutionary theory.
Secondly, the fact that cells seem to be "designed" and work like machines supports the idea that there is no external force or higher power controlling things. If cells behave in a consistent and mechanized manner, then how can a higher power have any effect or relevance on the world? That would necessitate inconsistency. And maybe the only way for a process to exist is if a mechanized system exists to support it. Both evolution and design could cause this, as far as we know. Also, as Nathan said, we glean ideas from life.
Thirdly, the physical world is identifiable and measurable by science while the conscious world is identifiable and measurable by our experience. These two aspects of our world are both... mysterious, if you will. We don't know how they interact. I don't think this is cause for a belief in an animate and distinct higher power.
Firstly, look at evolution by natural selection. This is an intelligent system, with simple components that seemingly completely explain it. There are artificial life computer programs that behave as expected (albeit in a more simple manner than the complicated world), based on evolutionary theory.
Secondly, the fact that cells seem to be "designed" and work like machines supports the idea that there is no external force or higher power controlling things. If cells behave in a consistent and mechanized manner, then how can a higher power have any effect or relevance on the world? That would necessitate inconsistency. And maybe the only way for a process to exist is if a mechanized system exists to support it. Both evolution and design could cause this, as far as we know. Also, as Nathan said, we glean ideas from life.
Thirdly, the physical world is identifiable and measurable by science while the conscious world is identifiable and measurable by our experience. These two aspects of our world are both... mysterious, if you will. We don't know how they interact. I don't think this is cause for a belief in an animate and distinct higher power.
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Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Frackal said:
The driving force is the environment........selection.
Evolution is a complex theory.........far more complex than most people realise. There are many factors that could affect which organisms survive.......it doesnt always take mutations (this idea is the one supported by Dawkins, but many people disagree with this). Sometimes it is a matter of dumb luck (avoiding natural disasters through luck or having a widespread population). I think the idea of simple mutations being the only cause for long term change is too simple and somewhat narrow minded......there are other factors to be considered (all of which work within the laws of Nature).
Mattavelli
New member
If you want answers to most questions reguarding whether God exists or not just go to http://www.doesgodexist.org there are some helpful things said there. As it is ,not all things can be explained, it all rests on faith. most ppl i have spoken to dont really beleive in God per se, however they will admit to beleiving in a " higher power "
Mutations are random. For every living thing that has had cells mutated to fit its environment, the growth of fur for example, there is many others who had mutations that worked against he organism and caused it to perish. The living beings that are here today are just a few lucky ones who happened to mutate favorably. If there was a force behind this process, I don’t think it would waste its time mutating failures. It would be more precise.
Mattavelli
New member
what mutations worked against the organism to cause it to perish? im not trying to get on a religious kick im honestly curious
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