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LOL @ gadukat
SofaGeorge
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I've got to add 2 cc's since this thread got bumped again... I've known many of the old time and modern pros. The thing that has always struck me is with a couple of exceptions... they are generally ALL pretty smart. Every now and then a Tom Platz or two is riding the special little yellow school bus that stops in front of his house just for him... but by and large bodybuildign is a sport for intelligent people. This only goes boack to the logic that to succeed at bodybuilding - you have to be a scientist. You have to study and learn what works... research... be aware... etc... not just train. Then you need to have the mental discipline to apply what you've learned. Discipline takes intilligence. Most aspects of this sport take intelligence. Even mastering correct lifting form takes more intelligence than is possessed by the average Joe.
How often have you seen a dumb ass throwing his body around when trying to curl... and made the mistake of saying something to him? You lerned quickly that the guy was a moron.
How often have you read idiot training advice - from a moron?
How many stupid people have given really bad advice on the Training board, Anabolics board, and supplement board? Lots!
They also usually look like crap.
You've got to be smart to succeed at bodybuilding. Period.
Nobody ever made it to the top of the game without a lot of brain power.
How often have you seen a dumb ass throwing his body around when trying to curl... and made the mistake of saying something to him? You lerned quickly that the guy was a moron.
How often have you read idiot training advice - from a moron?
How many stupid people have given really bad advice on the Training board, Anabolics board, and supplement board? Lots!
They also usually look like crap.
You've got to be smart to succeed at bodybuilding. Period.
Nobody ever made it to the top of the game without a lot of brain power.
louden_swain
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Ken Waller, Muhammed Makkawy
SofaGeorge said:
With all due respect, George, as with any other sport, I don't think we could categorize the majority as intelligent. Roughly a quarter of bodybuilders will be of average intelligence or more. About 50% will be average. Another quarter will be below average. That's simple bell curve statistical probability.
I can't agree here. Lifting a weight from point A to B doesn't require much intellect. This is evident by the fact that Mongoloids can train for and achieve impressive powerlifts in the Special Olympics.
Additionally, discipline and intelligence aren't interchangable, or even roughly correlative. A dog can have discipline. Is a dog going to have greater than an average IQ? Of course not.
The fact is, most of the professionals are pros BECAUSE they can do just about anything and grow. If they manage to deduce, after years of staying roughly the same size (like Ronnie Coleman in the early 90's), that more gH, more steroids, and lifting heavier make themselves bigger, well...I don't think they're any kind of Vulcan-like logicians. Efficient training--specifically, what constitutes efficient training for a PRO, which is almost anything--is not rocket science. If it's progressive and consistent, the guy's going to grow...he needn't be a great experimenter to figure out what works.
Like Jay Cutler? Or Arnold? I've seen footage of both cheat curling.
Anytime most of the pros open their mouths (and the column isn't ghostwritten) I'm intellectually underwhelmed. Some of them have been so stupid as to write, "If 20 sets was good enough for Arnold, it's good enough for me"!!!!!
Ronnie Coleman sure did. You're not honestly suggesting that the pros INVARIABLY give good advice, and that a build is indicative of someone's *intellect*, are you?
That's a Pollyana attitude, to be frank. The genetics and drugs of the pros ALLOW 90 IQ morons to place and even WIN the Mr. Olympia.
The next time Coleman opens his mouth, I'd appreciate it if you wrote down what he said and told me why it's "smart." The guy is a dolt, pure and simple. Do we really need to delve into the specifics of why he's so stupid?
SofaGeorge
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guldukat said:
Sorry bro, but you are speaking from inexperience. How many pros do you know? How many have you spent time with? I spent 10 years at Gold's Venice. I know most of the modern day pros... and many of the old timers. Truthfully, the percentages are greatly skewed towards intelligence as far as I can see. I don't know any of the old timers from the golden age 30s 40s 50s 60s... that I would say aren't intelligent... the guys I've met from the 70s are all smart... and with only a couple of exceptions the guys from the 80s and 90s are bright.
And Ronnie Coleman sure isn't stupid.
SofaGeorge said:
Fallacy of empiricism. It's possible to tell whether or not someone's stupid without standing next to them for ten years, you know.
When Ronnie Coleman says, "Last year, I was bick, but not as cut or as definedt. Dis year I gonna be bick, an my tymmetry eh a whole lot bettah. I shavedt three inches off my wais[t]."
Just the LABOR with which the guy talks makes it clear: he's DUMB. Texan or not, he can't even talk right. I don't care how dried out you are; ANYONE can say "symmetry" without struggling unless that's a "big word" to them.
How about the press conference in 2001?
"In 1996, I didn't complain...when I got sixth. In 1997, I didn't complain...when I got ninth. Huh (yes, he really said this), so, the, the moral of the story is, why complain?"
Real brilliance! Robert Frost, T.S. Eliot, and W.B. Yeats couldn't top that!
How about Ronnie's infamous "apples and oranges" speech, for which Kamali derode Coleman as dumb? How about the time Coleman blabbed on and on about crack and steroids, which Levrone thought was dumb?
Even the guy's contemporaries regard him as a moron.
Please offer me one example that shows how he's actually intelligent. His appearance on Jay Leno made him look stupid. His commentary at the Mr. Olympia makes him look stupid.
Realizing that deadlifts are a good exercise doesn't really make him stand out.
More than that: getting to the top of bodybuilding doesn't cut it. You know the guy's got insane genetics. He's said over and over again that he didn't change his training as he progressed through the 90's. (Realizing that, hey, if I take more Dianabol, I might grow more is hardly indicative of genius at work.)
The guy's even gotten stupid with his physique. We all know about his gH gut. He's abused the stuff. Rather than try to lay off of gH in '02, he decided to come in 20 lbs. lighter. Whoops: he looked soft from losing so much size, STILL had the giant gut, and his truly outstanding bodyparts (like arms) had no pop-out power anymore.
OH!, I forgot. Coleman doesn't manage his own diet. It's too complicated for him to manipulate successfully; someone else has to hold his hand through the process. Funny, but I don't think many of the golden oldies you're thinking of had someone leading them through a diet...Franco didn't. Mentzer and Viator
didn't. Schwarzenegger didn't. Yates didn't. Shawn Ray didn't, and doesn't.
I don't see any evidence of this great intellect Ronnie and many others are hiding from us, or why their admitted hard work requires great brain power.
Again, that's with all due respect...I'm seriously not trying to pick with you but I don't see that the vast majority of bodybuilders are very smart. The smart guys always strike me as the exception to the rule.
That last post sounded pretty harsh. This isn't MFW; I certainly didn't intend all that personally, George, so I apologize if you took/take offense.
I also think it might be a *bit* of a stretch for me to say many pros are downright *stupid*. Does Ronnie strikes me as...how to say...less than very intelligent? Yes. I'm a Southerner, myself, so I'm not entirely thrown by his Texan accent. By and large, it's simply what the man says.
By no means does that diminish his status as, arguably, the most impressive overall Mr. Olympia ever. I simply don't think it takes significant brainpower (by that, I mean well above average intelligence...say, a 130 IQ+?) to train heavy, to stick to a diet, to plan cycles, etc. such that you can step onstage in good form.
I also think it might be a *bit* of a stretch for me to say many pros are downright *stupid*. Does Ronnie strikes me as...how to say...less than very intelligent? Yes. I'm a Southerner, myself, so I'm not entirely thrown by his Texan accent. By and large, it's simply what the man says.
By no means does that diminish his status as, arguably, the most impressive overall Mr. Olympia ever. I simply don't think it takes significant brainpower (by that, I mean well above average intelligence...say, a 130 IQ+?) to train heavy, to stick to a diet, to plan cycles, etc. such that you can step onstage in good form.
gmanlax7
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guldukat - you are an idiot, speach has nothing to do with intelligence. Look at stephe hawkins. Just because a guy has trouble conveying his thoughts doesn't mean his mind is very smart. And your bell curve theory dissproving George's statement that BB'ers cant be all smart is just dead wrong. As he explained, to be succesful, you have to be smart. THe dumb bodybuilders didn't win contests or get big enough to further their careers. THe smart get big, the smart go big time.
you are the one who should think before he speaks
you are the one who should think before he speaks
gmanlax7 said:
Says the guy who can't even SPELL speech. Why should I take you seriously? You don't even know how to hit the "spell check" button.
Because he is PARALYZED, you dumb bastard! He has NO trouble "conveying" his thoughts, anyhow. He's a far better speaker than Ronnie Coleman.
It's "Stephen Hawking," anyway.
How so?
Please explain.
So you've never known a big, dumb guy?
Your argument is retarded. You are committing the appeal to consequences fallacy. Besides, it does NOT take intelligence to inject drugs, to use one's God-given genetics, and to do the routine Ronnie does. ANY fool can understand what "hard work" means.
Shut up, you fucking dork.
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