Short Cycle, Test prop/npp

[jasonxxx]

Hi all!
I´m about to start doing short cycles for a while (3 on 3-4 of, 4 on 4-6 of) and I got test prop, NPP and Dbol to use!

Stats:
24
6.1 (186cm)
200 pounds (91kg)
15-16% BF

Cycle history: 2 x (10mg dbol/d 60 days)

Been training since I was around 19, but it was most for strengt for my sports, not for lbm purpose.
Been taking it more serious last 1½ year with good diet and training plans!

Diet:
P: 2,2-2,5 g/kg bodyweight (not lbm)
F: 0,5-1 g/kg bodyweight (not lbm)
C: Enough to allways reach surplus
3000 calories/d (Clean food!)

Goals: Put on lbm and as little BF as possible, rather loose some of course!

Proposed cycle #1:
weeks: 3-4
100mg prop eod
100mg npp eod
30mg dbol?

Proposed cycle #2:
Weeks: 3-4
150mg prop eod
30mg dbol

Proposed cycle #3:
Weeks: 3-4
150mg prop eod
100mg npp eod
dbol?

PCT:
Week 1: 40mg Nolva + Creatine
Week 2&3: 20mg Nolva + Creatine
Week 4: Creatin

RESTART with new modified cycle!

After this I consider another short cycle for another bulking, gears will be decided during PCT weeks!

I´ve read alot about this short cycles, but I cant really decide what to run exactly and I will decide in week 3 if 4 weeks will be doable.
I also know npp can be a problem with recovery but I´ve read enough to be willing to try this out and I dont think the time on and the dosage should be a problem for serious sides.

My earlier dbol cycles did give me pretty descent gains, but I got pretty bad lower back pumps, will this be worse if I would use higher dosage of dbol?

Now PLEASE give me the best of help you can give and try to stay on the subject

Thanks!
/Strapon

 

[UFC22]

1-8 -- T-Prop 150 mgs/EOD
1-6 -- NPP 50-100mgs/EOD
1-4 -- D-bol 30mgs/ED

Do an 8 weeker, I think you will be more satisfied. Make sure you have an AI such as aromasin or AIFM on hand. Also have you PCT in place.

 

[jasonxxx]

I think your advice looks very nice indeed, but because Im new to injectables I would like to do a few short cycles first to see how I react and what gains to expect with moderate doses.

Another reason I want to try this shorties is because I will be able to do 2 or 3 of them until July and then I have the choice to do 2 bulking and 1 cutting cycle, or just 1 of both.

Goals for cycle #1: Put on lbm and as little BF as possible, rather loose some of course!
I will be satisfied with as "little" as 4 pounds lbm result but more then happy with more, no unrealistic goal I think?

More suggestions, and how does the pct look?

 

[blut wump]

Just run a simple test enanthate cycle for 8-10 weeks of between 400 and 600 mg per week, injected every 3-5 days. For example, 250mg E4D for 8 weeks.

It'll give you a clear idea of how to run an injectible and how you respond to test. It's difficult to screw the cycle up and the gains will be at least as good as you crave.

Sequences of short cycles are an attractive proposition but I think you'd be better served by running them a little later, when you have more experience of recovery and what to expect.

Another simple, easy, cycle would be to run the prop alone for six or seven weeks. The downside is that you'd be getting yourself in for twice as many pokes as the enanthate cycle.

 

[jasonxxx]

Just run a simple test enanthate cycle for 8-10 weeks of between 400 and 600 mg per week, injected every 3-5 days. For example, 250mg E4D for 8 weeks.

It'll give you a clear idea of how to run an injectible and how you respond to test. It's difficult to screw the cycle up and the gains will be at least as good as you crave.

Sequences of short cycles are an attractive proposition but I think you'd be better served by running them a little later, when you have more experience of recovery and what to expect.

Another simple, easy, cycle would be to run the prop alone for six or seven weeks. The downside is that you'd be getting yourself in for twice as many pokes as the enanthate cycle.

You are right about the short cycles, they are really tempting, and I´ve deiced to try them.
Im not in a hurry growing as fast as possible, I will take it one step at the time. I feel short cycles will fit my goals better then long ones, and I´m willing to inject eod, also got myself a nurse who will help me with the injects
Im prepered for some pain

Thanks for your opinion!

Right now Im considering this:

Cycle #1:
3-4 weeks
100mg prop eod
100mg npp eod

Cycle #2:
week 1-4
150mg prop eod
dbol?

More suggestions please

 

[blut wump]

Have you looked into the alleged weakening of connective tissue that is purported to be an issue over the first three weeks of a cycle?

"researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992)."

 

[jasonxxx]

Have you looked into the alleged weakening of connective tissue that is purported to be an issue over the first three weeks of a cycle?

"researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992)."

Thanks for the info!
But after all I been reading from other users with experience from short cycles, they are satisfied and get a descent result somewhere between 6-10 lbs, and that is for me more then enough for a cycles not longer then 4 weeks. Some seems to claim that 4on has the best gains to side ratio.
I feel its invaluable to hear from other users how they did!

But I think up to 6 weeks could be taken in consideration for me for the first injectable cycle, it all comes down to sides and health how I will respond.


How do you

 

[lifthard2005]

wk 1-8 prop @ 100mg ed
wk 1-8 npp @ 100mg ed
wk 1-4 or 5 dbol @ 50mg ed

 

[jasonxxx]

wk 1-8 prop @ 100mg ed
wk 1-8 npp @ 100mg ed
wk 1-4 or 5 dbol @ 50mg ed

That seems good for my 3rd or 4th cycle if I wont like short ones with max 6 weeks duration.

What about this:

wk 1-(4,5,6 depending on results and sides!)
150mg prop eod
100mg npp eod
30mg dbol/d ??? (will pump in lower back be a bigger problem with higher dosage if I got it from 10mg/d?)

How do you experienced users eat during a cycle when you aim to loose some BF during a bulk or at least keep it where it is?
How much calories over maintanance?
And how often do you do cardio every week?

I will keep track of weight and body fat each week and my diet will be clean and spot on.

 

[jasonxxx]

Bump for experienced guys!

 

[JuicedAthletics]

Bro, you have to learn your own body..

I have stayed on test for over a year, have done 3-4 week cycles and have done 8-12 week cycles. Pretty much everything in between as well.

I dont always choose short cycles but they have their place. I tend to enjoy 4-6 week cycles. I usually put on 4-6 pounds from them. I use a couple short esters and an oral. Right now I am running suspension, npp and winstrol.. Ill take about 6-8 weeks off and then run a similar cycle but with anavar instead of the winstrol..

The reason I like shorter cycles is because I feel I can recover much quicker and my body is under stress for far less time. Its difficult dieting and gorging myself for over 8 weeks, plus gains seem to stop around then as well.

I am at the point where I am happy with 2-4 pounds kept per cycle, so I guess it all depends on where you are and what you are looking for as well.

 

[jasonxxx]

Bro, you have to learn your own body..

I have stayed on test for over a year, have done 3-4 week cycles and have done 8-12 week cycles. Pretty much everything in between as well.

I dont always choose short cycles but they have their place. I tend to enjoy 4-6 week cycles. I usually put on 4-6 pounds from them. I use a couple short esters and an oral. Right now I am running suspension, npp and winstrol.. Ill take about 6-8 weeks off and then run a similar cycle but with anavar instead of the winstrol..

The reason I like shorter cycles is because I feel I can recover much quicker and my body is under stress for far less time. Its difficult dieting and gorging myself for over 8 weeks, plus gains seem to stop around then as well.

I am at the point where I am happy with 2-4 pounds kept per cycle, so I guess it all depends on where you are and what you are looking for as well.

Nice to hear man!

But its hard to make a first time choose that feels 100% right, I guess most first time injectors had a hard time to decide.

I been thinking about deca for o about 2 years and been reading alot on different forums, and now latly I read much more about NPP and thats the way I been introduced to the short cycles. I´m aware of many injections but its ok.

The main reason I want to do a few short ones first is as you say, to learn my own body and for healthy aspects and recovery.

One thing I learned from my dbol cycles was that I got a bad lower back pump after work out, do you think it will be even worse with a higher dosage stacked with inject gears? If so, I think I wont do anymore dbols!

More tips are welcome

 

[boston789]

I have a feeling short cycle are going to become more and more popular.

 

[niv]

Have you looked into the alleged weakening of connective tissue that is purported to be an issue over the first three weeks of a cycle?

"researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992)."

that's great info.. felt it but couldn't explain it

 

[jasonxxx]

I will study the "perfect" PCT for the coming weeks to be sure, thanks!

Ok guys, I´ve decided, since it will be my first inject cycle and I am not in hurry and I really want to learn how my body responds, I´ve decided to just go a Test prop - cycle!

I dont want to inject more then eod for this cycle so which dose is preferable:
#1: 150mg eod (525mg/w)
#2: 200mg eod (700mg/w)

Frontload???

If I choose #1, will 30mg dbol/d (4wk´s) be good to add without problems, or should I be satisfied without?

If I choose #2 should I add anything at all or is it just to much for a first time cycle?

One more thing!
I had lowerback pump problems with my dbol 10mg/d cycle, will I for sure get it again from a higher dose?

Thanks guys!

 

[JuicedAthletics]

You dont need to front load with prop. You will feel the prop within the first week as it is..
Run the prop solo. Go with 100-150 EOD, if its your first cycle. Sit back and enjoy bro..

 

[jasonxxx]

Ok guys, I made my descision:

Prop 150mg EOD!

After 4 weeks I will analyze my gains and decide If I will keep going a few more weeks.

How much calories over maintanance do you guys eat if your goal is to put on lbm with as little bf as possible?

Will up my protein to 250-300/d!

Any thoughts?

 

[solidspine]

So I missed the logic of the short cycle, what is the reason for these short spurt cycles?

I cut a cycle to 4 weeks without PCT; fortunately the parole board was reasonable so I picked it up 18 months later,

 

[jasonxxx]

So I missed the logic of the short cycle, what is the reason for these short spurt cycles?

I cut a cycle to 4 weeks without PCT; fortunately the parole board was reasonable so I picked it up 18 months later,

I dont know if it´s allowed to post links to other sites (got a bunch of short cycle threads from other forums)

Basically its for health and recovery reasons and you dont have to be "of" for that long. Hopefully the gains stays with very little lbm loss.

 

[blut wump]

You can link to articles and posts in other boards until mods or admin tell you not to. Any boards that they object to will be automatically removed from your post by the site software.

Don't forget that some boards require you to be logged in to be able to read posts so can't usefully be linked to unless the reader is a member of that board.

 

[jasonxxx]

Ok!

What if I copy an article text and add it here, is that ok too? I mean, maybe the person who wrote the article doesnt want the text to be used on other boards?

 

[jasonxxx]

Ok guys, I need some advice!

I knew that prop would hurt but I didnt know It would make me almost paralyzed (not really but damn close ), haha.

Tonight I will do my second shot and I been reading about how to make it less painful. I made a few mistakes when I did the first injection:
I forgot to heat the oil before injection and I think I didnt inject slow enough (1,5cc, 100mg/ml concentration, took about 1 minute to inject!)

My questions:

1. How do I heat the oil best way and for how long?
2. How much time should I wait after heating it?
3. How slow should I inject 1,5cc, 2-3min or more?
4. Can I inject beside the last injectionspot (right glute), if so, how much space between?

Please help me out!

 

[mattrich]

not sure about heating it i dont bother.
1-2 mins is fine for injecting 1.5cc.
if i were you i would change injection sites, don't do same site twice within same week. unless you want to feel even more pain than before.
the pain will get less the further into your cycle as you body gets used to it.
try sticking your glute.

 

[jasonxxx]

Im thinking about adding npp to ease the pain and get a little more effect wont hurt.
I dont have any sterile oil and if I do the other glute tonight I wont be able to sleep in almost any position without pain

Will the pain be be much easier to handle if I add the npp?

Help please

 

[blut wump]

Try your side delts. Don't shoot the same site as last time unless you can leave at least 2" between spots. Even then it's not a good idea until you've cycled some other spots.

From what you describe, it sounds like the prop is fairly thick and should have been made with more BB. Heating it might help but I doubt it since the pain is probably from crystalization of the prop within the muscle. Cutting with something thin might help.

 

[jasonxxx]

Try your side delts. Don't shoot the same site as last time unless you can leave at least 2" between spots. Even then it's not a good idea until you've cycled some other spots.

From what you describe, it sounds like the prop is fairly thick and should have been made with more BB. Heating it might help but I doubt it since the pain is probably from crystalization of the prop within the muscle. Cutting with something thin might help.

What do you suggest,:

150mg prop+100mg npp 4-6weeks
or
100mg of both?

Will it ease the pain much?

 

[jasonxxx]

Need to inject within hours, please help me out

I want to try medius glute inject but I cant find any real ass picture

 

[jasonxxx]

Ok guys!

I read a LOT about ventrogluteal (glutal medius) yesterday and in the end I had enough courage to try it!

It feels pretty good so far 9-10 hours after injection, will update later on!

 

[blut wump]

Good move.

 

[jasonxxx]

Soreness is the same as the first shot tbh, but ventrogluteal injection is much better because it doesnt effect movements as bad!

Tonight I think delt will be shot because if I do quad I wont be able to walk for sure.
Was thinking about ventrogluteal on the side where I did maximus 5 days ago, but maybe it is to close to maximus to be smart (maximus is still sore).

What do you think blut wump and other experienced, delt or ventroglutel tonight?

Will try to massage the area for a few minutes this time to see if it will help.

 

[blut wump]

The other medial glute should be fine but you might as well try the delt. You need four locations if you're shooting EOD, anyway. In a pinch you might be able to shoot each medial glute E4D if you're really careful with distance separating the injections (at least 2") but it's better to have at least four muscles to rotate between, giving 8 days between locations.

BTW, which lab made this torture liquid?

Actually, it's probably best that you don't post it up. The mods might get upset and I don't really care anyway.

 

[jasonxxx]

hehe ok, I will try delt because I did my last upper body workout today, then my glute will have a rest and be fit for fight on sunday

I can just mention the gear is made in europe and is known to be painful, but I had allready ordered when I found that out and I were planning to do prop with npp but to many seemd to be against it and I realized one gear is better for the first time to see reactions.

Which part of the delt is best to inject to?
My gf will help me out with the delt shot, I need more one hand practice first!

Im glad 4 spots for rotation should be enough, I really dont want to put this stuff in the quad haha.

 

[jasonxxx]

bump the last post

 

[blut wump]

Side delt muscle. You must have had a nurse give you a jab at some stage.