SARM's, Science and "Bro-Science"

[dwkestrel1]

All chemicals have potential side effects on physiological functions. Side effects are common. Rather than a response of "I've never heard of that", I think it would be enlightening to have people list any negative side effects to specific SARM's beyond the well-documented ones (vision issues at high doses of S4. Don't bash a sponsor in public but this would allow PM's amongst forum users. I'll start.....leg rashes and back pumps (kidney issues) and water retention (5-6 lbs)at 25 mg ED MK-2866 in my test rat. No other compound being used. I hope the moderators see the value in this discussion.

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

I get the back pumps on osta too. I can usually counter them with an obscenely large amount of water intake daily. But otherwise they come and go throughout cycle. 25mg daily

 

[RickRock13]

My rats have never encountered any negative side effects from Ostarine at 25mg ED, and only minimal vision sides from S4 at up to 100mg per day. I used Sarmssearch, so quality of SARMS could possibly be a factor in presence of side effects as well.

 

[bigbassturd]

I'm with Rick on this one..

Never had a single problem running sarmssearch products, even at high doses

 

[notjake11]

I've been on Osta at 25/day for nearly four weeks and (1) no back pumps; (2) if anything have shed water rather than retaining it. It sounds like you may not be consuming enough water - could cause both of those issues.

 

[dylangemelli]

Bro science because an answer you got is that noone has seen those issues? do a google search on it and look for articles, instances etc... of this and good luck finding it? how is there any bro science involved in that... if you have a science question, ask away... Nothing is 100% on anything that we take... what works for 95% of people leaves a 5% ratio that may have other effects... there's no SCIENCE or BRO SCIENCE in that whatsoever... that's just the difference in body types... that's why things are never 100% guaranteed because body makeup cannot be pre determined... I have never heard of the problems you are having with sarms, especially ostarine which has had very few instances of any side effects... any side effects that it can bring generally occur when people abuse the dosage and exceed 25mg... IS IT POSSIBLE that 25 may be a bit much for you, or that your body is rejecting it entirely... YES THAT'S POSSIBLE... is it a normal thing, NO ITS NOT... It could be come down to quite a few things... You never mentioned where you bought it, what your history of certain conditions are, allergies, etc... You were never given an eval to determine any of these things... So before you go around making asshole condescending comments, take a look at yourself and what you are writing first... I know that I help so many people daily, ON MY FREE TIME, and continually GIVE to this community... I and many others are not getting paid for this... I have a masters degree for a reason, because I put in my time into studies, etc... This is WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING... as much as I TRY TO FREELY GIVE, I don't have time to GIVE SCIENTIFIC answers on a daily basis to every question... I try to sum it up the best I can on each question... Do you realize I get nearly 75 pm's A DAY and I ANSWER EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, not to mention all the threads I go through to help... WHO DOES THAT ON ALL THEIR FREE TIME? NOT MANY... Instead of being unappreciative and coming acorss as a jerk, maybe next time you can be appreciative of FREE HELP and just ask for a bit more explanation if your not satisfied with an answer...

 

[dwkestrel1]

Bro science because an answer you got is that noone has seen those issues? do a google search on it and look for articles, instances etc... of this and good luck finding it? how is there any bro science involved in that... if you have a science question, ask away... Nothing is 100% on anything that we take... what works for 95% of people leaves a 5% ratio that may have other effects... there's no SCIENCE or BRO SCIENCE in that whatsoever... that's just the difference in body types... that's why things are never 100% guaranteed because body makeup cannot be pre determined... I have never heard of the problems you are having with sarms, especially ostarine which has had very few instances of any side effects... any side effects that it can bring generally occur when people abuse the dosage and exceed 25mg... IS IT POSSIBLE that 25 may be a bit much for you, or that your body is rejecting it entirely... YES THAT'S POSSIBLE... is it a normal thing, NO ITS NOT... It could be come down to quite a few things... You never mentioned where you bought it, what your history of certain conditions are, allergies, etc... You were never given an eval to determine any of these things... So before you go around making asshole condescending comments, take a look at yourself and what you are writing first... I know that I help so many people daily, ON MY FREE TIME, and continually GIVE to this community... I and many others are not getting paid for this... I have a masters degree for a reason, because I put in my time into studies, etc... This is WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING... as much as I TRY TO FREELY GIVE, I don't have time to GIVE SCIENTIFIC answers on a daily basis to every question... I try to sum it up the best I can on each question... Do you realize I get nearly 75 pm's A DAY and I ANSWER EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, not to mention all the threads I go through to help... WHO DOES THAT ON ALL THEIR FREE TIME? NOT MANY... Instead of being unappreciative and coming acorss as a jerk, maybe next time you can be appreciative of FREE HELP and just ask for a bit more explanation if your not satisfied with an answer...

I don't know why you think this thread is a personal attack? As a scientist, I am interested in the rare responses which is why I started this thread. Did I ever say that SARM's are bad or that most people have issues? However, just because I haven't read something in PubMed doesn't mean it can't happen. Perhaps more importantly to me, why do you assume I don't do "this" for a living also? If an individual came to me with a strange response to a prescribed medication, what would you think my liability would be if I sent them away and something happened to them? I'm just looking for a free exchange of information based on a larger sample size. If that is unacceptable to the forum, so be it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'm in the middle. I think SARM has its place but it's not the holy grail of androgens. I think it's foolish to assume that ANY drug does not have side effects , because they all do. And SARMS is new and relatively untested under stern conditions. As it stands, the only thing I think everyone should understand is that SARMS will certainly suppress -- not as quickly as steroids , but they are not suppression free. So keep that in mind.

 

[stevesmi]

these are RESEARCH CHEMICALS and are NOT for human consumption.

on this site we do not endorse using them on humans. use them on your rats.

the rules are in the sticky

 

[Aesthetical]

Head to toe itchy body rash in week 3 of a 8 week 50mg s-4, 25mg osta. I'm assuming its because of the osta though.

 

[psizzle_8]

My rats have never used osta, never heard of these issues you're having but none of us are discounting them. Peoples bodies are different and will react differently to different things they put into them.

Have my rats ever had issues with other sarms? Yep. Intense eye issues that have carried over to today. Since switching companies (to SarmsSearch), my rats see no issues. Rick is who put the idea in my head to switch, and now I wish I would've done it sooner.

Some products work for some while they don't for others. Just have to find a product/company that works for your rats the way SarmsSearch works for my rats, and Rick's.

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Have my rats ever had issues with other sarms? Yep. Intense eye issues that have carried over to today.

How long after s4 was stopped did the eye issues remain? What dose?

My rats are really freaked out by the eye issues from s4 and hearing from you that symptoms have carried over to today is scary.

What eye issues are currently being experienced and do they differ from when your rats were 'on'?

Thanks!

 

[psizzle_8]

My issues were very rare. Not many experience it...it's always a possibility, but I was just unlucky

Sarms have a short half life.. The yellow tint, if your rats experience it, it goes away within a day or so from when you stop taking it, so you can rest assured with that

 

[freakshow85]

My rats have ran s4 solo once for 5 weeks, and s4 plus osta twice for around 6 weeks. The only sides I can gather from them is they had the vision sides from s4. They cleared up 100%. I know you asked for sides other than the vision sides, but I still thought I would share my rat's experience.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using EliteFitness

 

[bcock]

My rats had zero sides from Osta in the past as far as I remember. They had eye issues with both SS and Uniquemicals S4 at as low as 75mg ED. The last they used S4, they used Bilberry which seemed to help a good deal with the eye issues as they weren't nearly as dramatic.

 

[dylangemelli]

the vision issues with s4 subside very quickly... 4-6 hour half life... that's why so many end up running the 5 on and 2 off protocol so they can get through it...

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Ostra no problems what so ever.

S4 cant handle anything above 25mg split dose.

 

[notjake11]

My rats had zero sides from Osta in the past as far as I remember. They had eye issues with both SS and Uniquemicals S4 at as low as 75mg ED. The last they used S4, they used Bilberry which seemed to help a good deal with the eye issues as they weren't nearly as dramatic.

From what I've seen/read, the recommended dose for S4 is only 50mg a day. Dropping to that dose may also help with the sides.

 

[dylangemelli]

here's the thread i wrote on how to dose s4

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/how-properly-dose-s4-931903.html

 

[RickRock13]

From what I've seen/read, the recommended dose for S4 is only 50mg a day. Dropping to that dose may also help with the sides.

50mg is a good average dose that works for many and to keep sides low, but some people like me experience very minimal vision issues even at higher doses (70-100mg) but reap more benefit

 

[DAxelrod]

I've ran two cycles with Osta, solo. My first cycle with Ostarine, I experienced minor nut pain and minor shutdown at 20-25 mg after 4 weeks. Moderate water retention (5-6lbs is a great guess) with ostarine has been a constant. The first cycle, I pushed the dose to 30-35 for one week and experienced minor fuzzy vision. I went low carb one day in the first cycle, while taking naproxem sodium (advil) for pain during a 3 hour grappling session and became sluggish and developed a bad heat rash when I pushed through the session. I also experienced minor shedding of hair, despite taking propecia, and a small but definite increase in acne development and insomniac tendencies

Strength and recovery benefits with this compound are moderate but noticeable, with muscular endurance and overall stamina being the big winners. The benefits of this compound increase from 12.5 to 25 and continue to increase with a higher dose, along with side effects and the general "high" being on cycle. I'm running Osta at 15 mg my 2nd cycle and have not yet experienced any sides beyond mild acne, insomnia. It's a good compound and it's place in a cycle deserves further research

 

[AAS.Achilles]

While on osta and S4 my rats experienced great results. It was part of a cutting cycle and the rats got an amazing increase in overall strength while on a caloric deficit.

I did experience the s4 vision sides at 75mg Split dosage, normally when walking in a dark building from outside. From my experience it was a green now yellow tinge which causes temporary color blindness, which can be a bit troublesome. I'm a black jack dealer and it makes it hard to tell the chips apart when I first get to work. It's just temporary as my eyes adjust it fades away, and the sides completely dissipated after the rats took the last dose.

Needless to say from the results, my rats will be running another cycle as soon as their Sarms arrive in the mail!

 

[hurricane]

My rats have ran s4 solo once for 5 weeks, and s4 plus osta twice for around 6 weeks. The only sides I can gather from them is they had the vision sides from s4. They cleared up 100%. I know you asked for sides other than the vision sides, but I still thought I would share my rat's experience.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using EliteFitness

same here .. the s-4 gave me minor vision problems, that went away quicky..Eveything else i had no problems or complications from.