Rumsfeld's speech

[Testosterone boy]

it is apparent that Donald Rumsfeld is going to be the GOP spokesperson in the Iraqi conflict. He seems Presidential and holds his own. Pretty good smile for a CEO.

What they really need is a compelling reason to invade Iraq. They have some good reasons but I don't see an overiding need to do things now that is far greater than the reasons to wait and inspect and gather more data.

They argue that it may become too late if we wait. True...but it may be too quick if we don't. I don't foresee gaining hardly any global approval with the evidence we have presented. We need MORE evidence. A smoking gun so to speak.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

A war right now would help Bush get re-elected. I'm surprised he didn't wait until closer to election time to begin the war.

 

[VballPlayer]

Don't forget the war is taking away all the attention from the failing economy. An issue that Bush does not seem to want to address or fix.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Don't forget the war is taking away all the attention from the failing economy. An issue that Bush does not seem to want to address or fix.

The president is powerless when it comes to fixing the economy, it's not his fault

 

[Testosterone boy]

A war right now would help Bush get re-elected. I'm surprised he didn't wait until closer to election time to begin the war.

I really doubt that Bush wants a war for re-election purposes. He hates Saddam because Saddam tried to kill his dad whom he is very close to.

 

[Testosterone boy]

If Saddam REALLY is close to making a nuclear weapon, WHO GIVES a fuck what the world thinks??? Take him out.

But they're not. Which makes me suspicious about the whole iraq thing. If your neighbour was inventing a weapont o kill your entire family...would YOU waste your time whining to the police, or would you do something to protect yourself and/or take this guy out b4 he takes you out?

the liberals (like the morons attacking police today whining about all those poor countries, give me a fucking break, damn liberals) are started to get more press time now, and attacking Bush more, and Bush's popularity is starting to decline now. So yes Bush needs something else to tie the coutnry together and get his popularity up again.

All those morons who are attacking Bush now, are the same dorks who voted for Gore in the last election.

-= nav =-

Well put...reminds me of a thread I have been debating. "Does the US need the rest of the world"? Good thing we have so many serious guys into foreign policy.

 

[VballPlayer]

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war
in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor,
for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword.
It both emboldens the blood,just as it narrows the mind....
And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch
and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed,
the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the
citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded with patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader, and gladly so. How do I know?
For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."

- William Shakespeare


Know it. Live it. Learn it!

- Fast Times At Ridgmont High

 

[thebabydoc]

A war right now would help Bush get re-elected. I'm surprised he didn't wait until closer to election time to begin the war.

Oh, I'm sorry, did he begin his re-election campaign while I was sleeping. Don't be fucking ridiculous; you sound like Ted Kennedy.

Originally posted by VBallPlayer
Don't forget the war is taking away all the attention from the failing economy. An issue that Bush does not seem to want to address or fix.

The economy fucking sucks because of a lack of confidence caused by 1. Criminally-acting CEO's who figured that if Clinton could understate his sexual exploits, they could understate the amount they were fucking stealing, and 2. The fact that shit like Sadam and Osama and the rest of the fucking Middle East terrorists control oil and continue to hold strings over our country we haven't fucking taken it away from them yet.

As for acting too quickly...
Who gives a fuck what the world thinks
I'm sorry, since when was 10 years "too quick"
And even if he got it wrong, the expression is "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" Only problem is if we get fooled a second time we're gonna be looking at some serious consequences- i.e. weapons of mass destruction. That ain't a risk that I'm willing to take.

 

[Testosterone boy]

As for acting too quickly...
Who gives a fuck what the world thinks
[/B]

And that would be a NO vote. We don't need the rest of the world. thanks for the input. Good insights.

 

[manny78]

What they really need is a compelling reason to invade Iraq. They have some good reasons but I don't see an overiding need to do things now that is far greater than the reasons to wait and inspect and gather more data.

They argue that it may become too late if we wait. True...but it may be too quick if we don't. I don't foresee gaining hardly any global approval with the evidence we have presented. We need MORE evidence. A smoking gun so to speak.

I may not agree with a war against Iraq but when you're in such a powerful position as the US are, you don't really need a reason or the green light by any country...

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: Re: Rumsfeld's speech

I may not agree with a war against Iraq but when you're in such a powerful position as the US are, you don't really need a reason or the green light by any country...

Agreed...but isn't that like me saying that I'm 6'5" and strong so I'll do what I want to a smaller guy? There is still accountabiltiy.

A lot of people are going to die if we invade Iraq. A country that isn't totally corrupted will explore alternatives to a logical extent. I, for one, don't feel that we have been able to present a compelling case to invade Iraq right now.

If Hussein is cornered and has nothing to lose, there is an excellent chance that the losses will be legendary.

I'm not opposed to an invasion of Iraq, I just need some very compelling reasons to do so other than he MAY have nuclear capabilities in 6-12 months. His motivation for wanting nuclear capabilities has been Iran. Even Hussein knows better than to go toe to toe with the US in a nuclear battle.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Another thing...we chase Osama and come up empty handed. How will it look if we tear Iraq apart and come up empty handed?
What if we win then some terrorists hit us with weapons of mass destruction as payback? That Saddam supplied when he realized he would lose everything.

 

[thebabydoc]

Test boy:
You need to get a grip on your estrogen levels because you are talking like a pussy- try some Clomid or Novaldex.

"Weapons of mass destruction as payback"? Have you seen any attacks of any sort since 9/11, since we obliterated their "hideouts"?
It is because they are in complete and utter disarray and there are no funds available anywhere or anyone who would dare touch them to help them stage any such attacks. Believe me, just look at the little Anthrax prank we had... it is easy to obtain, use, and spread biological and chemical weapons if you have them. The goal here is to PREVENT them from ever getting their hands on them. There is NO DOUBT or ARGUMENT that ANY ARAB nation would not hesitate to use these weapons should they obtain them; Sadam's sending scuds towards Israel is a prime example. So long as we keep grinding them down and on the retreat, they will never be able to organize enough to do significant damage.

As for "A lot of people are going to die if we invade Iraq" that is true. Fortunately, as the Gulf War proved, it's pretty much gonna be 100% Iraqui's.

And lastly, no, there is no accountability on our part. That's the fact, Jack. We can do as we please and even if the entire world got together, there is not thing one they could do about it.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Test boy:
You need to get a grip on your estrogen levels because you are talking like a pussy- try some Clomid or Novaldex.


Well at least I know that you a doc now. I think arrogance is about the first thing they require.

"No reasonable person wants a war." Donald Rumsfeld 9/27/02

I am on clomid BTW.

Guess doing abortions desensitizes one?

 

[thebabydoc]

Well at least I know that you a doc now. I think arrogance is about the first thing they require.

"No reasonable person wants a war." Donald Rumsfeld 9/27/02

I am on clomid BTW.

Guess doing abortions desensitizes one?

1. It's not arrogance, it's knowledge and experience. Yes, me a doc. You a ???

2. It's not a war, it's a simple ass-whoopin'. BTW, those words by Rumsfeld are so out of context I couldn't even begin to comment except to say that his very next word was "...but"

3. Abortions sensitize me to the pain that young women feel in making one of the most difficult decisions in their entire lives. I also deliver babies, you douchebag, 32 this month so far. And yesterday, I spent 30 minutes talking one of my established patients through and out of an abortion that she wasn't quite sure she wanted while 6 other patients waited for me. I provide a service without judgement to women who need empathy and understanding rather than judgement and condemnation.

What great service is it that you provide to this planet (other than using up our supply of AS) that allows you to feel the need/right to comment on my profession, you methane-expelling penis receptacle?

 

[JohnyJuice]

Please. Anyone who is against invading Iraq (and the rest of the middle east for that matter) is a fucking moron. It is just a matter of time before they manage to get their shit together and fuck stuff up. I am a big believer in the motto "an ounce of prevention is worth a pund of cure." Gwet that through your heads. Why did no one fuck with us after ww2 until the seventies? Because they knew that if you fucked with America, you had your ass handed to you. That all stopped come the 70's, once the tree hugger faggot ass liberals took hold of our press and Government. Do you think it is a coincedence that as this country began becoming more liberal, things went to shit?

 

[Testosterone boy]

1. It's not arrogance, it's knowledge and experience. Yes, me a doc. You a ???

2. It's not a war, it's a simple ass-whoopin'. BTW, those words by Rumsfeld are so out of context I couldn't even begin to comment except to say that his very next word was "...but"

3. Abortions sensitize me to the pain that young women feel in making one of the most difficult decisions in their entire lives. I also deliver babies, you douchebag, 32 this month so far. And yesterday, I spent 30 minutes talking one of my established patients through and out of an abortion that she wasn't quite sure she wanted while 6 other patients waited for me. I provide a service without judgement to women who need empathy and understanding rather than judgement and condemnation.

What great service is it that you provide to this planet (other than using up our supply of AS) that allows you to feel the need/right to comment on my profession, you methane-expelling penis receptacle?

I'm someone who spent two years plotting the assassination of an MD. Bought dozens of guns and read dozens of reloading books and ...... i don't like you, get the picture.

 

[thebabydoc]

Come and get it, asshole. Obviously your 2 years were wasted as the hippocrite who succeeded in killing Schleppian has already been caught.

 

[JohnyJuice]

Abortion is not the topic here. Arguing over whether it is right and wrong will just spin inot mayhem. This topic will never have a total agreement (like how all of society believes that rape is wrong). I personally think abortion is terrible and shouldnt happen, but i feel it is a neccessary evil, and i feel pity for those who are faced with that choice. The job of a physician is to perform his patients the medical attention they require or desire, not to pass judgement on the individual. They inform and give advice. The babaydoc is being a professional about his work, and that is admorable.

 

[gymnpoppa]

It seems those hankering for war, are the ones who dodged service time years ago. And the generals who've fought wars, are opposed.


Using the logic on this thread, (and that of the Shrubs.....Saddam can't wait to attack us......well, what's keeping him? If he's already got what they keep rehashing from old intelligence reports, and questionable defectors, why hasn't he attacked?

Why hasn't he launched these weapons and taken over the M East?


It's funny how this administration uses the most vague, uncorroborated intelligence, to bolster it's claims, yet the same intelligence failed horribly prior to Sept 11th.

I keep hearing the same lameass......he used gas on his own people, well, the shit came from us, why don't they tell the whole story?

He used the weapons on the Kurds, and the Iranians, and we did nothing, except assist him.....gave him satellite pics, helicopters, and other support to help defeat the Iranians....

Yet, none of the "objective" media in this country mentions our part in this work.

Of course the public will be influenced by this type of vague, unsubtantiated propoganda, if the same people, (shrubs) keep saying the same thing over and over. At least the dumbasses who don't have a clue, or the intelligence to do some research, or those who have never served in the military......overseas in the M E.

It's easy, do live, emotional rhetoric-filled press conferences, weekly, sometimes daily...........offer the crappy insinuations, duck your head when someone asks for actual proof, or avoid the question altogether by changing the subject to the typical good vs evil rhetoric, then continously conduct and post slanted polls to gauge the effectiveness, and the ignorance of the public.

Oh, I almost forgot, if ANYONE, questions you too much, label them a liberal, or unpatriotic, or accuse them of dividing the country.

continously post analysts on all the major news outlets to back your dubious claims, only deal with media that will prescript the questions, which you pre-approve. Do not make appearances where you might be questioned unscripted.


Presto, you've got a case for whatever you're doing..........such as the incubator story that influenced the votes of SEVEN skeptical senators in the first Gulf War.......................

 

[musclebrains]

WORD

 

[Longhorn85]

Of course the public will be influenced by this type of vague, unsubtantiated propoganda, if the same people, (shrubs) keep saying the same thing over and over. At least the dumbasses who don't have a clue, or the intelligence to do some research, or those who have never served in the military......overseas in the M E.

Wow, you're so smart and have everything figured out. Those who are seriously considering making a move against Iraq are just dumb followers duped by Bush's smoke and mirrors. Included amongst the misled are the majority of the U.S. Senate, most of the polled American public, The heads of state of the U.K., Canada, Russia and Italy, and most of the U.N. security council.


It's a shame non of the aforementioned are as intelligent as you are, maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess.

 

[musclebrains]

The resolution to require Saddam to honor the UN-mandated disarmament is a lot different from a national resolution granting Bush unilateral powers. Nice spin, TTl, as always.

 

[p0ink]

if september 11th never happened, and bush went before the american people telling them he had substantial evidence that al-qaeda was going to hijack american planes and fly them into building, would you support a pre-emptive strike? most likely not.

do we need a few extra thousand dead americans to convince you?

and how come all of the democrats were all for using military action against iraq during the clinton administration, but now they suddenly did a 180?

 

[p0ink]

well....?

 

[Testosterone boy]

well....?

Good luck man, all of our political types are off in lala land or something.

 

[gymnpoppa]

if september 11th never happened, and bush went before the american people telling them he had substantial evidence that al-qaeda was going to hijack american planes and fly them into building, would you support a pre-emptive strike? most likely not.

do we need a few extra thousand dead americans to convince you?

and how come all of the democrats were all for using military action against iraq during the clinton administration, but now they suddenly did a 180?

Excuse me for being off the boards for a few days......but part of this is already answered in my post. You need to reread it. As for the pre-sept 11th intelligence reports, maybe the information WAS there.....maybe you can explain why the families of the victims had to go testify, and threaten this administration with public appearances about the LACK of effort to find out why our intelligence failed. Explain the aboutface by Bush....and your reluctance to post on some other threads (factual) about this administration's dealings with Iraq. Do a search, the information is readily available.

I'll answer your questions when you answer mine, stop ducking.
Also, do you plan to enlist in the military?

By your comments, it's obvious you either don't know that previous administrations have lied about incidents to justify a war,
or you can ignore that and continue your normal pattern of commenting on issues that are favorable to your thoughts.

As for your IF theory, I'd expect the president, CIA, FBI, and other security agencies to do their jobs, and catch these perps, BEFORE they act. It's obvious there was information out there, maybe not enough to stop, but maybe there was. Definitely was enough to stop at least parts of it..........which is pre-emptive work, not cutting the budgets (Ashcroft) to fight terrorism.

ttlpkg, I won't even bother.

 

[gymnpoppa]

where you at p0ink?

 

[gymnpoppa]

bump for p0ink

 

[Longhorn85]

ttlpkg, I won't even bother.

where YOU at, GP?

I know how you feel though, I didn't want to bother after your predictable rant about how Americans and others are being misled by Bush and that there is no justification for attacking Iraq. I wonder why you won't address the fact that many if not most thinking Americans, diplomats and politicians disagree with you. Not to mention heads of state of many western nations and UN officials. Could all of these folks be wrong? In your mind I suppose.

 

[p0ink]

god. sorry i didnt respond fast enough gympoppa, i was busy sleeping and being at class. i will come back and disect this later tonight.

 

[manny78]

if september 11th never happened, and bush went before the american people telling them he had substantial evidence that al-qaeda was going to hijack american planes and fly them into building, would you support a pre-emptive strike? most likely not.

do we need a few extra thousand dead americans to convince you?

and how come all of the democrats were all for using military action against iraq during the clinton administration, but now they suddenly did a 180?

2 questions:

1- Why would Saddam commit suicide and attack the US (remember he's not that much religious).

2- How would he do that ?

 

[gymnpoppa]

ahh, ttlpkg......spinning away huh?

Bro, whereever you're getting your numbers from, it's flawed.

I already spoke about polls. I don't believe in them, because it's too easy to slant the question, and therefore influence the answer.

Like I said before, it's easy to change the opinion of ignorant, uninformed americans by.........doing emotionally charged press conferences ...........continously..............conducting polls in a manner that creates answers favorable for your cause.............there is no new evidence put out, ONLY speculative rehashed reports. Bush even attempted to misle the public with the atomic report (1996), which they White House hastily recanted when it was noted. NOW, you will ignore these and do what you always do.....make posts about me ranting. You rarely ever acknowledge the facts.

This administrations claims change every time someone questions, or has evidence to refute the dubious attempts to mislead the public, or whoever.

First it was Atta meeting with some Iraqi official.........now they've moved to the al-queada link of no substance.

Now, all along, the CIA has not produced ANY evidence to back ANY of the speculative claims these defectors have been feeding the government. NONE.

And now, because of these lacking reports to substantiate their weak, pathetic claims, the CIA refused to appear at the SI hearings/debate.

If you want to engage in some debate about these facts, and others like them, I'm for it. I'm not interested in your polls, or other biased propaganda you've swallowed whole. Post some links, or either a reputable source that I can research myself. and it's all good.


manny78, I agree......why would this dude attack the US?

No one in this government could make me believe that he is willing to commit suicide, or that he has the capability to do so.

Like I said before, it's known that our previous administrations have created supposed incidents to influence opinion about war.

War should not be the first option. ONLY under pressure from the world did Bush go before the UN.

Maybe you can tell me why doesn't he just go and attack Iraq?

What is he waiting for? I remember you saying a few months ago, we could go in to Iraq alone, well, what is he waiting for?

Bottom line is, we cannot do this alone. As much of a superpower we are, we need help. It's hard to launch a war from aircraft carriers. B-1/B-52's don't land on those.

 

[PinK233]

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war
in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor,
for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword.
It both emboldens the blood,just as it narrows the mind....
And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch
and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed,
the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the
citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded with patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader, and gladly so. How do I know?
For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."

- William Shakespeare

Shakespeare never said that hunny....its ok Barbara did it too LOL

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021002/ap_wo_en_po/us_people_streisand_1

 

[Testosterone boy]

What if these agemcies know something but are not telling because the last thing we need is more fear. How would the nation react if a mostly completed plan to desseminate immense amounts of bio and chem warfare in the US was revealed?

 

[Longhorn85]

Shakespeare never said that hunny....its ok Barbara did it too LOL

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021002/ap_wo_en_po/us_people_streisand_1

Informed, conservative women are so sexy...