Real-life "ground fighting"

[Fukkenshredded]

The ring-fight mentality can be lethal on the street. I was homeless for ten months and learned first hand that survival in a fight is all about mindset and awareness.

First thing you should learn is how to avoid a fight to begin with. Most guys will back off of someone who apologizes for offending and expresses a strong desire for peace.

As far as keeping a fight off the ground -- that is fairly easy if you know basic boxing/wrestling and can sprawl (easy to do).

Boxing skills are invaluable, primarily because you can avoid getting hit much easier when you are used to sidestepping jabs all day and then someone tries a haymaker. Looks like slow motion, especially if the attacker is drunk (which is usually the case).

The people suggesting head stomps are fools. I have personally witnessed two deaths in bar fights, and one was from a head stomp. Stupid. If you get up first, run away. You have the time.

If you do get taken down, you have to fight for your life. This means understanding that you will probably have to hurt the person you are fighting. Knowledge of grappling is essential these days, if for no other reason than to equip you for idiocy in the clubs. Luckily the essential groundfighting techniques are fairly easy to learn. Neutralizing an opponent is more often than not a matter of being in good shape, as most people tend to tire much faster than they anticipate. Be in good shape cardiovascularly. This will buy you time, which can save your ass on the street.

I think that all things being equal, your wits and humility will save you more often than your fighting skills. Diffusing the situation with words is best.

A few street rules:

Never back yourself into a corner.

Learn how to use objects such as cars and streetlamps to your advantage by placing them between you and him. You can dance around a car or a streetlamp all night without getting touched. I have done this myself while onlookers laughed their asses off.

Know how to use your head physically, and how to deliver a headbutt. This is one of the most effective weapons I can think of. I have ended at least five street fights this way, and I weigh less than 180 lbs.

Don't hit with a fist. Learn how to use your open hand and how to deliver throat strikes. This, combined with boxing skills, can also end a fight very quickly.

Most importantly, don't fight unless you have to. If you can run, run. I've run from many fights. I'm glad I did.

Don't ever get confused about sportfighting vs. streetfighting. Most throws executed properly on the street will end the fight right there. However, you can very easily mess up and drop a guy on his head, killing him.

Submission holds are worthless. Forget them on the street.

Learn how to toe-punch below the kneecap. Again, a quick finisher with hard shoes, regardless of the size of your opponent. I took out a bounder that way and had to go to court, where I successfully defended my position. The bouncer limps slightly years later, and still bounces.

No other kicks are useful. Do not try to kick the thigh, and never ever try to kick the head. You will miss and be taken out, or connect and kill. Both are bad.

Use chokes with caution. Apoplexy is a sneaky thing. Better to choke to collapse and immediately run away than to choke to complete unconciousness.

Know how to defend against a choke. Once someone has you in one, your done. So knowledge of how to prevent this is crucial. Everyone thinks they are going to choke their opponent out. Unfortunately most sportfighters who are fighting in bars are fools to begin with, and use their techniques wrecklessly. Take caution, because that dumbass will sure a shit kill you without meaning to.

And rule number one: NEVER TALK SHIT.

 

[Maverick]

The ring-fight mentality can be lethal on the street. I was homeless for ten months and learned first hand that survival in a fight is all about mindset and awareness.

First thing you should learn is how to avoid a fight to begin with. Most guys will back off of someone who apologizes for offending and expresses a strong desire for peace.

As far as keeping a fight off the ground -- that is fairly easy if you know basic boxing/wrestling and can sprawl (easy to do).

Boxing skills are invaluable, primarily because you can avoid getting hit much easier when you are used to sidestepping jabs all day and then someone tries a haymaker. Looks like slow motion, especially if the attacker is drunk (which is usually the case).

The people suggesting head stomps are fools. I have personally witnessed two deaths in bar fights, and one was from a head stomp. Stupid. If you get up first, run away. You have the time.

If you do get taken down, you have to fight for your life. This means understanding that you will probably have to hurt the person you are fighting. Knowledge of grappling is essential these days, if for no other reason than to equip you for idiocy in the clubs. Luckily the essential groundfighting techniques are fairly easy to learn. Neutralizing an opponent is more often than not a matter of being in good shape, as most people tend to tire much faster than they anticipate. Be in good shape cardiovascularly. This will buy you time, which can save your ass on the street.

I think that all things being equal, your wits and humility will save you more often than your fighting skills. Diffusing the situation with words is best.

A few street rules:

Never back yourself into a corner.

Learn how to use objects such as cars and streetlamps to your advantage by placing them between you and him. You can dance around a car or a streetlamp all night without getting touched. I have done this myself while onlookers laughed their asses off.

Know how to use your head physically, and how to deliver a headbutt. This is one of the most effective weapons I can think of. I have ended at least five street fights this way, and I weigh less than 180 lbs.

Don't hit with a fist. Learn how to use your open hand and how to deliver throat strikes. This, combined with boxing skills, can also end a fight very quickly.

Most importantly, don't fight unless you have to. If you can run, run. I've run from many fights. I'm glad I did.

Don't ever get confused about sportfighting vs. streetfighting. Most throws executed properly on the street will end the fight right there. However, you can very easily mess up and drop a guy on his head, killing him.

Submission holds are worthless. Forget them on the street.

Learn how to toe-punch below the kneecap. Again, a quick finisher with hard shoes, regardless of the size of your opponent. I took out a bounder that way and had to go to court, where I successfully defended my position. The bouncer limps slightly years later, and still bounces.

No other kicks are useful. Do not try to kick the thigh, and never ever try to kick the head. You will miss and be taken out, or connect and kill. Both are bad.

Use chokes with caution. Apoplexy is a sneaky thing. Better to choke to collapse and immediately run away than to choke to complete unconciousness.

Know how to defend against a choke. Once someone has you in one, your done. So knowledge of how to prevent this is crucial. Everyone thinks they are going to choke their opponent out. Unfortunately most sportfighters who are fighting in bars are fools to begin with, and use their techniques wrecklessly. Take caution, because that dumbass will sure a shit kill you without meaning to.

And rule number one: NEVER TALK SHIT.

you have obviously watched the bas rutten videos, but yah bas is the man

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Actually I haven't watched any instructional videos. In fact, I haven't had any formal training (other than the military, which was limited). Like I said, I was homeless. I did live in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where I knew a few UFC fighters and helped teach a self defense course for women. We did not teach any martial arts. I am a big fan of sport combat, from UFC to pro boxing (my favorite) and I always wanted to be a professional boxer. I train like boxers and I look like a boxer, but I can't really fight for shit when it comes to sport. I can defend myself, but I have learned that I was lucky when I was homeless.

Not a badass -- just LUCKY. Over ten months, my street awareness was honed. I hope nobody here ever has to fight for their lives. I have the upmost respect for those who lay down their lives in combat for us, and also the upmost respect for the guy who can walk away from a bar fight without having to prove something.

I am not trying to represent myself as a fighter, I just know that the points I outlined did save my ass more than once...especially the one about running away. I've done it, and I sit here in a nice house with a nice computer system, alive and kicking by the grace of God because it was pure luck that I was faster than they were!

Who is Bas Rutten?

 

[Judo Tom]

do you have any intrest in persuing training or did that kind of turn you off to the whole thing?

Great post.

 

[BrettB1]

The guy who didn't know shit. I think I live in a town where people just like to generely scrap. Like I said I love BJJ and it is very effective but from all of my experience 90% of BJJ experts know the moves and are quite skilled and can control thheir opponent but what do they do when they get the submission hold on the guy.......you think in real life people tap. They may tap but then what.....you let them go and they clock you again, or stick theier fingers in your eyes.

No dude, in real life there is no tap. I was in a fight last weekend at a bar. I choked the guy until he passed out. He was trying to poke my eyes when I was choking him, I just ducked my head down and squeezed. His arms went limp, I got up and spit in his face. Oh yeah, he was tapping before he passed out. He started the shit, I finished it.

 

[Djimbe]

Yeah, I remember that was frustrating about BJJ...

I'd be in some guy's guard, and I could feel him slowly working a sub on me, and I'm thinking... "in reality I'm going to be wailing on your face with both my free hands"

Honestly Ive just started doing (MMA-Style) Sub Grappling classes , and at 400lb its ALL tyhat I can think EVERY time I go to the class . ESPECIALY since there are only honestly 2-3 guys there that can actually throw a Punch any beter than an ATA Yellowbelt . They ae mostly Wrestlers and Sport BJJ guys with NO striking sills or defenses . And since Im JUST coming back to FULL training off a long Injury the game is to Stall for time Till I gas and cant o a damned thing at all , then slap a lock on the Immobile Wheezing guy - but in real life even the guy thats 360 and wrestles cant take my hits - but he can sure Ground me into a ghasping heap (And THEN score a takedown) when Im handcuffed , so to Speak . but NO ONE in real life is going to have EIGHT MINUTES of me defending their takedowns (why bother taking THEM down when I cant stomp them out and I really dont have any "Go To" Subs to speak of ?) without striking to DO that with , so thats why I think of BJJ as a better Supplimental art than Primary for self defense .

 

[Djimbe]

If we are talking about street fights I think BJJ is part of the equation but not all of it.

From that list MOST of what yu need should be found in ANY decent Standup system . And honestly , I dont see why you think you need Choking so much . Chokes are REALLY Dangerous and can lead to PLENTY in the way of post-combative Litigation .

So... Most untrained tough guys will try to throw a looping haymaker with their dominant hand (probably a right) at your face... some will even cock back with their right and extend their left arm forward like they are throwing a baseball... You can see that shit coming from a mile away...
Your guard when not using boxing gloves should look different. You can block punches with your 14-16oz sparing gloves, but your bare fist gives you little protection. I'm really getting into a new guard that some guys from SBGi have been showing me. I think it is called "crazy monkey" or something... Quinton Jackson and Tito Ortiz (against Chuck Liddell) are a good example of what I'm talking about... Hands high and use a "comb your hair" motion to cover against punches...

You know whats funny about that ? Matt Thornton dumps on CMA all the time , but that move is called "Tiger Hold Head" and is ripped off directly from Traditional Xingyiquan . Now this is hte same man that told m that "NOTHING good has EVER come from Traditional Chinese Martial Arts ." to my face ! Its actually called that because its the Motion with wich you will see a cat lick it paw and then Groom itself . Well , that and Chinese ppl love relating everything to Animals in MA for some reason .

There was no real Point to that , I just dont like how some ppl Degrade other MAs to make themselves "look better" .

Ok... so you are winning the stand up fight, guy tried a couple of haymakers and you ducked out and caught him but didn’t produce a knock out. Most guys in American have wrestled in HS at some point. Some guys did it for a couple of years, you might even run into an all county guy here or there... Once he feels nothing but air on his punches and gets clocked in the face a couple of times his next reaction will be to go in for a shot and try to take you down. Learning how to Sprawl (the right way) and break a guy's grip is KEY!

A Sprawl is one way to stop a shot , but its not the only way , and I personaly dont even find it the BEST way for non-sportive combat . I thin that there are a Category of Neck cranks , spinal Compressions and Head Maniipulations that trump the Sprawl for that kind of thing , and typically if you can catch a football you can do them all . I also feel that Throws/Topples that use the Forward momentum of the shooting Opponent (ala Judo/Shuaijiao/Bagua/Aikido/Taijiquan approach) are preferable .

 

[karde]

i actually liked the one i went to where all we did was ground work for 2 reasons:
first being thats why i went and thats what i wanted to focus on.

2nd when we sparred and started standing i had lots of fun trying my judo stuff against guys who had never seen it, not saying i whooped um or anything it was just fun to try it against skilled fighters who had not seen some of the 'stranger' throws and what not.

I found BJJ seriously lacking on take downs/throws etc. Then I had a wrestler friend of mine start teaching me some stuff. It works well. But that is just sport application.

 

[Evil_Frisky]

If we are talking about street fights I think BJJ is part of the equation but not all of it.

For street fights your focus should be on:

- Being able to walk away from it.
- Boxing
- Clinch work, knees and elbows + Throws !
- Being able to walk away from it.
- Defending against a take down.
- If taken down being able to lock the guy up in your guard so he can't hit you -AND- being able to scape or reverse him.
- Chokes, Chokes, Chokes! ! !
- Being able to walk away from it.


You have to also be able to put it all together.... First off, you are not really going to find many MA guys picking fights at a club... Chances are that the guy who wants to fight you is a street punk that has never been humbled by getting his ass whooped in a good sparing session by somebody 20-30lbs lighter than him... Like all true fighters have at one point.

So... Most untrained tough guys will try to throw a looping haymaker with their dominant hand (probably a right) at your face... some will even cock back with their right and extend their left arm forward like they are throwing a baseball... You can see that shit coming from a mile away...
Your guard when not using boxing gloves should look different. You can block punches with your 14-16oz sparing gloves, but your bare fist gives you little protection. I'm really getting into a new guard that some guys from SBGi have been showing me. I think it is called "crazy monkey" or something... Quinton Jackson and Tito Ortiz (against Chuck Liddell) are a good example of what I'm talking about... Hands high and use a "comb your hair" motion to cover against punches...

Ok... so you are winning the stand up fight, guy tried a couple of haymakers and you ducked out and caught him but didn’t produce a knock out. Most guys in American have wrestled in HS at some point. Some guys did it for a couple of years, you might even run into an all county guy here or there... Once he feels nothing but air on his punches and gets clocked in the face a couple of times his next reaction will be to go in for a shot and try to take you down. Learning how to Sprawl (the right way) and break a guy's grip is KEY!

Even knowing how to fall into a good guard if taken down is key. The main thing is not to waste too much time trying to punch the guy while he is holding your leg and trying to take you down. Forget about punching for a second, stop his take down, kill his momentum and forward motion with a good Sprawl and head control, break his grip and when he is down on his knees and can't make any progress in his position then start raining down some elbows and punches, maybe even a soccer kick or two.
If he gets up quickly after the failed takedown attempt he will walk right into your clinch, with your bare hands just interlock your fingers behind his head in the clinch (better control than overlapping boxing cloves), 2-3 knees is all it should take.


PS: If you feel that you are fighting for your life, and you should not be fighting on the street unless you are. Try to put him away quickly, but if it turns into a ground war and you are in danger of getting pounded on… You got the guy’s arm locked up… Break that shit. You are fighting for your life, there is no tapping! Rip that shit right out of the joint… he would do it to you if he could.
Also look out for the bite, once he feels his fucking joint separating the sheer desperation of that feeling will make him try to bite and take a chunk right off you. If you catch him with an arm bar in a street fight see if you can plant the sole of your foot on the guy’s face or neck rather then leaving your leg exposed to his mouth… A little harder to do it that way but it is much safer. Also POP and GO, don’t lay there working his arm till it breaks. Pop your hips up hard then get the fuck up off the ground, and get the fuck out of there.




-BRR

Very good advice BRR!

 

[Dieselgoku23]

You guys forgot the most important technique of all!!!!! RUN from the COPS seriously I wouldn't even think getting in a fight to last resort next thing you know you fuck someone up real bad your ass is in Jail is not worth it!!!!. If you life is in danger and you cant avoid everything that was said in this thread should be apply