PWOs in Ketosis?

[PickMe69]

Since blood sugar levels are really low during Ketosis, would you expect a greater effect from PWO (following the same logic as lower alcohol tolerance)?

Therefore, would eating a ketogenic meal and taking a PWO right after not decrease the effects of the PWO? (Like on a normal diet, they say you usually want to give it 30-60 minutes or it'll decrease PWO effects)

 

[mryar]

I think protein shakes kick you out of keto because it raises insulin levels. IIRC one has to keep protein at a fairly low and consistent intake to stay in ketosis. I'm not sure if its just the excess amino acids being converted into glucose through gluconeogenesis, or if the amino acids themselves are causing in insulin increase, but it does seem to happen. Human insulinotropic response to oral ingestion ... [Amino Acids. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

I read somewhere else that leucine, one of the BCAAs causes an insulin spike, but it was the stored insulin within the pancreas it caused to be released, the 2nd wave of insulin did not follow (where the pancreas starts up production).

Sorry couldn't be more helpful, I too am interested in this. I'm doing intermittent fasting with induced ketosis during the fast (from MCT oil). If you do get kicked out of ketosis, you could start it back up with MCT oil. I'm almost thinking if you're going to be bodybuilding or lifting heavy, a regular atkins/ketogenic diet will not work. Its not anabolic enough, IMO. I modified it to be in ketosis for 16 hours and normal eating for 8 (then I start ketosis back up with a combo of MCT oil and Na-R-alpha-lipoic-acid to drop the blood sugar). I ran this every day for 2 months and I'm backing off to 2-3x per week. Nagging injuries are popping up and its not anabolic enough. I love the energy and feeling good on the intermittent fasting, but its easy to overtrain while doing it.

 

[thedarkhalf]

Since blood sugar levels are really low during Ketosis, would you expect a greater effect from PWO (following the same logic as lower alcohol tolerance)?

Therefore, would eating a ketogenic meal and taking a PWO right after not decrease the effects of the PWO? (Like on a normal diet, they say you usually want to give it 30-60 minutes or it'll decrease PWO effects)

I've never really had food affect my pre workout. And even when I did keto a while back i never noticed that my preworkouts were any stronger/weaker regardless of meal timing or lack of sugars in my body.

 

[PickMe69]

I think protein shakes kick you out of keto because it raises insulin levels. IIRC one has to keep protein at a fairly low and consistent intake to stay in ketosis. I'm not sure if its just the excess amino acids being converted into glucose through gluconeogenesis, or if the amino acids themselves are causing in insulin increase, but it does seem to happen. Human insulinotropic response to oral ingestion ... [Amino Acids. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

I read somewhere else that leucine, one of the BCAAs causes an insulin spike, but it was the stored insulin within the pancreas it caused to be released, the 2nd wave of insulin did not follow (where the pancreas starts up production).

Your right, amino acids can feed into gluconeogenesis to form glucose for blood sugar levels as do fats by creating acetyl-coA molecules which can also feed into gluconeogenesis, but because they are only being used to maintain blood sugar levels, they aren't being used for energy (enough to kick you out of ketosis).

Insulin levels won't increase due to amino acids unless they have gone through gluconeogenesis to the glucose, because it's glucose that contributes to the blood sugar levels and its those levels that cause the insulin spikes.

As for the BCAA causing an insulin spike in the pancreas, that may be, but that shouldn't kick you out of ketosis either. The pancreas has multiple insulin receptors and its own batch of hormones, I doubt its activating the storage of glucose in the muscles or fatty acids in the adipose tissue

Think about a can of Albacore Tuna, it contains like 20-30 grams of protein, but thats not going to kick you out of ketosis.

But I'm not really worried about my protein shakes (yah they contain 24 grams of protein but ON only has 3 grams of carbs per serving) I was more interested in my Pre-Workout Supp - currently taking Assault - though I am a little disappointed that a serving contains 9 grams of carbs, I had taken it before and didn't even think to check the carbs on the label... critical mistake.

 

[PickMe69]

I've never really had food affect my pre workout. And even when I did keto a while back i never noticed that my preworkouts were any stronger/weaker regardless of meal timing or lack of sugars in my body.

That's interesting man. I've definitely noticed differences in how powerful my PWOs depending on when I eat around them, but I was wondering if anyone knew of like an ideal pre-workout schedule.

Yah, I don't have any papers on the topic, and when I was in ketosis last summer and taking PWOs I didn't particularly notice any better effects (though NTBM's PWO Powerchews were off the wall! Planning on getting some later in the summer) but I was just theorizing.

Thanks

 

[TheN1ghtmare21]

^ Powerchews pwo works well for me in keto because it keeps me sweeet tooth at bay! nightmare15 saves you 15% on them in the ntbm store!