Pulldowns w/ reverse grip, a better way to perform the movement!!!!!!!

[lavi]

What effect does leaning back while doing lat pulldowns have?

 

[Arnold'sApprentice]

a lil arch is good but leaning back too much involves too much lower back and not enuff lats.

 

[JoBu]

Changes the focus of the contraction. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but you need to be aware of the impact your body position has on the exercise. Generally I'm all for variations in grips and such for many movements. But I disagree with the original poster who claimed a reverse grip to be the "better" way to perform the movement. I also notice that individual hasn't weighed in on the discussion lately.

JoBu

What effect does leaning back while doing lat pulldowns have?

 

[coolcolj]

Here is something to note, when I do my chins, I have always done them on a power rack or a thick square bar on a smith machine support

Which means I use a partial L-Shaped grip.
Like hanging on a wall. This does make the movement different, and much harder.
Accordng to Poliquin it makes one recruit the lats much more than with a small round bar
Taxes the grip quite a bit too...

So try a thumbless grip on shoulder width palms facing chins. You won't really notice the biceps contracting as much, but theya re still in a stronger position

 

[Singleton]

Actually the lat contraction is identical between the two.

u can back that up with ?


In a study aimed at investigating the effects of different hand positions on the electromyographic (EMG) activity of shoulder muscles during the performance of the lat pull-down exercise, ten healthy men performed 3 repetitions of the lat pull-down exercise using their experimentally determined 10RM.

close grip

supinated grip (SG)

wide grip anterior
wide grip posterior (WGP).

They found that wide grip anterior worked latissimus dorsi and the triceps long head the most.

Wide grip posterior worked triceps long head second.

Close grip worked the pec major [sternal head] the most.

Changes in handgrip position affect the activities of specific muscles during the lat pull-down movement. They found that "performance of the lat pull-down exercise using the WGA hand position produces greater muscle activity in the LD than any other hand position during both the concentric or eccentric phases of the movement."


How they hooked up the electrodes may have provided a misleading result. We know that the lats are a one to many attachment, like the pec major. I assume they put the electrode on the upper portion of the lat.

In any case, we know that the grip used determines the degree of involvement of various muscles, including pectoralis major, triceps long head, and a multitude of back and shoulder muscles.

References
------------------------------------------
A comparative electromyographical investigation of muscle utilization patterns using various hand positions during the lat pull-down.

Signorile JF, Zink AJ, Szwed SP.
------------------------------------------
[Anatomy of latissimus dorsi and its clinical application]

[Article in Chinese]

Zhao R, Qiao Q, Liu C.

Plastic Surgery Hospital, Peking Union Medical College, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Beijing, P. R. China 100041.

 

[punch]

Just logged on....nice to see that many take this topic seriousely. My back is by far my best bodypart. It also helps that I have been training since I was 16, I am now 33. This in and of itself may not mean much, but, I can say I have tried MANY spins on traditional movements, new age programs, diets etc.

The point of this thread was based on MY opinion. None of the threads on ELITE should be construed as Gospel. Now, that being said....


I believe that an underhand grip provides for more strength in the pulldown period, thats my belief. How can I say this, well, my experience. I always attempt to weed out the weakest link in my training. When I perform very heavy pulldowns, I do NOT want my grip to come in to play, after all Im training back. If my grip is not a factor, or is made a limiting factor, I can concentrate on the movement. Case and point... " I " am able to contract my back far greater w/ reverse pulldowns than a forward grip. By enabling my elbows to flow back, even 1-2 inches more than than a forward grip, I will opt for the bigger ROM.

Strangely, and I am remiss that I dont know the exact biomechanics, I tend NOT to have nearly a tendancy to " SWING " with a reverse grip as I would performing pulldowns to the front. The reasons for this are unclear to me, it is based on my experience. I also perform close grip pulldowns on occasion, but have eliminated the front version in my workout for now. Peace.

 

[JoBu]

Good answer. Everyone should try all the variations of the moves they do and go with whatever they feel works best for them.

Just logged on....nice to see that many take this topic seriousely. My back is by far my best bodypart. It also helps that I have been training since I was 16, I am now 33. This in and of itself may not mean much, but, I can say I have tried MANY spins on traditional movements, new age programs, diets etc.

The point of this thread was based on MY opinion. None of the threads on ELITE should be construed as Gospel. Now, that being said....


I believe that an underhand grip provides for more strength in the pulldown period, thats my belief. How can I say this, well, my experience. I always attempt to weed out the weakest link in my training. When I perform very heavy pulldowns, I do NOT want my grip to come in to play, after all Im training back. If my grip is not a factor, or is made a limiting factor, I can concentrate on the movement. Case and point... " I " am able to contract my back far greater w/ reverse pulldowns than a forward grip. By enabling my elbows to flow back, even 1-2 inches more than than a forward grip, I will opt for the bigger ROM.

Strangely, and I am remiss that I dont know the exact biomechanics, I tend NOT to have nearly a tendancy to " SWING " with a reverse grip as I would performing pulldowns to the front. The reasons for this are unclear to me, it is based on my experience. I also perform close grip pulldowns on occasion, but have eliminated the front version in my workout for now. Peace.

 

[casualbb]

That may be the case. I'm also of the opinion that a person can change muscle distribution a good deal just by thinking about it. That study doesn't necessarily prove that wide grip, palms-out lats is best for recruiting lats. It could be that it's the way in which most untrained individuals tend to use the most lat.

...What else was I gonna say?

Oh yeah, mimic the motion to yourself: the lat movement is almost identical. I really don't think it makes all that much difference.

 

[Singleton]

When you pull down with a reverse grip, or close-grip anterior (CGA), your elbows start in front of your head, and end up right at your sides.

Posterior grip, especially wide-grip posterior (WGP) your elbows are out to the sides. The lats don't have as much leverage for that as they do when using an anterior grip.

I did mimic the motion myself. CGA (rev. grip) will end with the lats in a more contracted position than they would be from using WGA.

 

[IBONUMBER1]

Sorry social girl, but punch is right. Curl grip pulldowns are how Dorian Yates built a hugh back and most bodybuilders. Curl girp does allow for greater contraction. Your premise of using too much weight is beside the point here. If you use a forward grip and you use proper technique with elbows out you don't get as deep a contraction as curl grip pull down which allows the elbows to break the parallel plane and go past the chest thus giving a deeper contraction. But hey, you want to do reverse...go ahead. But the fact is with curl grip the elbows and ROM goes farther, and a squeeze at the height of contraction is what stimulates and builds a bigger muscle.