Psychology: What is a conservative?

[casualbb]

Because others in his community drink and solicit whores does not mean that he has no choice in the matter; he willfully decides his course. He does not have to decide correctly and will be limited by his understanding, but he is a free agent for his personal happiness

You ignore the effects of social motivation and peer pressure on actions. Especially, ESPECIALLY in the case of children. If a kid grows up in a poor area and his high school friends are drug dealers, then it's pretty much already too late.

That doesn't even address the issue of childhood development. If a baby is neglected in the first year of life because of no father and the mother's working two jobs, it's already too late. The child will have moderate to severe social and developmental problems for the rest of its life. I'd rather have that mother on welfare so she can properly raise her child than have that child waste state resources down the line when he/she drops out of school and/or goes to jail.

I think it was Locke who spoke of the "tabula rasa." Never underestimate the effects of nurture.

 

[Imakarum_Mirabilis]

CasualBB, if you keep placing all of the emphasis on nurture, your attempt at following a path in medicine will end in either revolutionizing your current notions (good), or beating you at the game (bad).

 

[atlantabiolab]

You ignore the effects of social motivation and peer pressure on actions. Especially, ESPECIALLY in the case of children. If a kid grows up in a poor area and his high school friends are drug dealers, then it's pretty much already too late.

Again, this psychobabble denies the one aspect of reality, which threatens the lefts view of the world: man's free will. Every point you make further pushes for the concept of "determinism", a person is what the world makes him. It argues that no matter what a person does, he can do no better than his environment allows. While I agree that the masses DO accept their status and never strive for more and their nurture is a major influence, I never accept this deterministic concept, for case after case of individuals have disproven this idea.

That doesn't even address the issue of childhood development. If a baby is neglected in the first year of life because of no father and the mother's working two jobs, it's already too late. The child will have moderate to severe social and developmental problems for the rest of its life. I'd rather have that mother on welfare so she can properly raise her child than have that child waste state resources down the line when he/she drops out of school and/or goes to jail.

This argument is weak. If a mother neglects her child, without money, she will neglect it with money. I know of many women who worked and loved their children, -loved being the key word; devoted themselves to their childrens well being. Money does not buy this. You spit on every woman who has struggled and devoted herself to her children, when you throw them in the catagory of those who use work as an excuse to neglect her children.

I think it was Locke who spoke of the "tabula rasa." Never underestimate the effects of nurture.

"Tabula rasa" deals with mans' status entering this world, as opposed to animals who derive survival from instincts. Man is a blank slate and knowledge must be imparted by others, in the best case scenario, or searched out if he is left to his defenses, in the worst instances. But parts of this slate can be erased and re-written on, it is not set in stone.

 

[casualbb]

But parts of this slate can be erased and re-written on, it is not set in stone.

Are you familiar with Harry Harlow's experiments involving monkeys? It explains a good many things and is quite pertinent.

You spit on every woman who has struggled and devoted herself to her children, when you throw them in the catagory of those who use work as an excuse to neglect her children.

Why the hostility?

There is such thing as a mother forced to work multiple minimum wage jobs on a welfare-to-work program. This happens more often that you'd think. What's she supposed to do, leave her kids at home? She can't afford daycare. How is that to be addressed?

 

[atlantabiolab]

Are you familiar with Harry Harlow's experiments involving monkeys? It explains a good many things and is quite pertinent.

Do you think yourself no better than monkeys? Is that the pinnacle of perfection in your world? Man far exceeds any other animal, so using behavioral studies as the explanation for all of man's actions demeans his nature. What diseases have monkeys treated and cured? What machines have they invented to benefit their existence? What great works of art have they designed?

There is such thing as a mother forced to work multiple minimum wage jobs on a welfare-to-work program. This happens more often that you'd think. What's she supposed to do, leave her kids at home? She can't afford daycare. How is that to be addressed?

Why is it that in all arguments FOR social programs, individuals are isolated from contact with the world? Advocates for these programs always press the idea that the person has no other family, friends or contacts. From my little experience in this world, most everyone has close contacts of some sort. Not to mention, social advocates have created government funded day cares for the benefit of these individuals, such as Head Start.

 

[casualbb]

benefit of these individuals, such as Head Start.

Which Republicans are trying to drop in budget cuts, but that's a different issue...

I agree that it would be nice if individuals had a support mechanism, but what if they didn't? What if the rest of their family is just as poor as they are?

As to monkey studies, human cognition doesn't change any variables. We may be able to talk and invent and do all sorts of nifty things, but that doesn't change the underlying psychological structure. The point I'm trying to make, is that babies' minds are plastic. Similar studies were done on orphaned children in underdeveloped countries. Without proper mental stimulation infants could go as long as age 2-3 without talking or walking (which tend to happen around 1 year w/ cared babies). What it all boils down to is that I believe people need and should receive government help, especially when raising children. It prevents a whole host of problems later.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Which Republicans are trying to drop in budget cuts, but that's a different issue...

I agree that it would be nice if individuals had a support mechanism, but what if they didn't? What if the rest of their family is just as poor as they are?

"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but
an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions." - James Madison, 1792

"The Constitution allows only the means which are ‘necessary,’ not those which are merely ‘convenient,’ for effecting the enumerated powers. If such a latitude of construction be allowed to this phrase as to give any non-enumerated power, it will go to every one, for there is not one which ingenuity may not torture into a convenience in some instance or other, to some one of so long a list of enumerated powers. It would swallow up all the delegated powers, and reduce the whole to one power, as before observed" - Thomas Jefferson, 1791

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson, 1798

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison criticizing an attempt to grant public monies for charitable means, 1794

As to monkey studies, human cognition doesn't change any variables. We may be able to talk and invent and do all sorts of nifty things, but that doesn't change the underlying psychological structure. The point I'm trying to make, is that babies' minds are plastic. Similar studies were done on orphaned children in underdeveloped countries. Without proper mental stimulation infants could go as long as age 2-3 without talking or walking (which tend to happen around 1 year w/ cared babies). What it all boils down to is that I believe people need and should receive government help, especially when raising children. It prevents a whole host of problems later.

Failure to Thrive is a real condition and occurs in horrible conditions such as Eastern European orphanages, where the staff cannot handle the excessive load of infants. This condition is not the scenario of a working mother. Any mother who neglects her children to this extent using the excuse of work would neglect her children even with money. Failure to Thrive does not occur from neglecting the child for a few hours, but constant deprivation of human contact.

If you feel these women need such help, what is stopping you from donating money and time to them? I don't remember anyone preventing generosity.

The real issue is that many feel guilt about a certain social problems and instead of personally addressing it, they utilize the government to confiscate funds from the whole populace to give to their pet project.

Many private institutions are available and are better suited for these issues, mainly because they have a very deep and or religious view on them, as opposed to government who could care less about the dependants as long as their jobs are protected.

 

[Big Johnson]