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New member
Out of curiosity, I was wondering what the chances are of contracting HIV from sex with a prostitute using a condom.
Prostitutes and HIV
- Thread starter Dead Man Inc
- Start date
Dead Man Inc
New member
I didn't phrase my question too well there!
What I really meant to say is, after having sex with a prostitute, in your opinion, is it worth getting tested for HIV, bearing in mind that you used a condom.
What I really meant to say is, after having sex with a prostitute, in your opinion, is it worth getting tested for HIV, bearing in mind that you used a condom.
FitnessFrk
New member
depending on the prostitue she could be much cleaner due to here practice of safe sex then some "normal" girl who is a skank that you pick up at a bar that doesn't require her partners to wear condoms cause they don't "look" like they have HIV.
jettstream
New member
I agree, always use caution, but bar sluts are more likely to transmit (IMHO) HIV and other diseases (warts etc) to other partners because people "look clean"...whereas prostitutes would be a "professional" of the field and seemingly less likely to take risks...however....to each his own, and you really just never know, STRAP UP and be safe, stay safe...good luck
jeTT
jeTT
exactly the same as having sex with someone with unknown STD status 
dont assume all prostitutes get tested, or practise safe sex. statistically they do, but you'll only know when your getting down and dirty i guess
an intact latex condom provides 98-100% protection against HIV i think
lots of other meanies out there though
dont assume all prostitutes get tested, or practise safe sex. statistically they do, but you'll only know when your getting down and dirty i guess
an intact latex condom provides 98-100% protection against HIV i think
lots of other meanies out there though
AceFrehley
New member
chances of a guy geting HIV while wearing a condom is slim to none.
AceFrehley
New member
athlete is not correct. fact is it is difficult for a guy to get hiv without a condom, more less with a condom. estimates vary between 95% (conservative) and 100% (realistic). research it.
if its a latex condom, stored properly and used withing its use by date and used correctly then the figures quoted are just about correct. latex stops HIV crossing the barrier, and smaller particulates
if its a NATURAL condom (made out of goat intestine or maybe even natural latex if such a thing exists) then HIV could get thru
if its a NATURAL condom (made out of goat intestine or maybe even natural latex if such a thing exists) then HIV could get thru
HansNZ
New member
athlete03 said:
The size of the HIV virus versus latex density is irrelevant. The sexual fluids which carry the virus are larger than the gaps in the latex and that is what is important.
Your arguement is one that Christian Fundamentalist "sex is dirty and sinful" types use to discourage even protected sex.
HansNZ
New member
I think your chances of contracting HIV from a prostitute are significantly less than from the general population.
In most Western countries there is well established sex education for prostitutes and they are tested regularly. I can speak for New Zealand and say that it's doubtful whether there are many prostitutes here who don't use protection.
If you used a condom then you should worry more about being struck by lightening or hit by a car as you are at higher risk for these.
In most Western countries there is well established sex education for prostitutes and they are tested regularly. I can speak for New Zealand and say that it's doubtful whether there are many prostitutes here who don't use protection.
If you used a condom then you should worry more about being struck by lightening or hit by a car as you are at higher risk for these.
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HansNZ- na actually your wrong again. Christians actually teach that sex is great.....that is if it is between two people who are married, but of course, what do u expect? Of course your going to eventually get something if not HIV if you screw around long enough, because eventually your luck is going to run out and your going to be stuck with what ever disease that the dirty whore had. plain and simple.
HansNZ
New member
Bulk32 said:
Your mind has definitely been contaminated by Christian attitudes towards sex. But I realise the futility of debating Christians. They're usually too busy looking for sin and the work of the devil when they need go no further than the nearest mirror.
In any case self-destructive and reckless sexual behaviour is almost completely because of religion (in the West's case Christianity). It has shrouded sex with so many moralising controls and taboos that has lead to the risky and self-destructive behaviour, not to mention the pathological attitudes surrounding sex.
We've spent the last 200 years building sewage plants, vaccinating people, and engaging in mass public health projects yet the greatest disease and public hygiene problem is Christianity.
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HansNZ
New member
A friend of mine works for the prostitutes collective doing sex education, political lobbying, etc. Here is the information he sent me which will hopefully answer your question.
____________________
Holes in condoms:
It is true that there are microscopic holes in latex, just as there are in all
natural products. It is also true that in one study under extreme laboratory
testing, using non-standard single dipped condoms, virus particles of HIV were
able to be forced through these holes.
However, this has never been replicated using standard double dipped condoms,
and does not happen outside the laboratory. HIV needs a carrier- cells from the
body, as you have pointed out (nearly all bodily fluids contain cells of some
sort- even urine contains some epithelial cells from the pelvis and urethra).
Under normal conditions, water (2H2O) cannot get through the latex in standard
double dipped condoms. Sex workers in NZ predominantly use Durex Confidence (we
sell confidence, not condoms), Ansell Lifestyles, or Sagami Silver. These are
all triple dipped condoms, although the Sagami is slightly thicker as they are
in the latex liquid slightly longer. The natural holes in these are even
smaller than those in standard double dipped condoms
Transmission of HIV
HIV is transmitted through unprotected sex where bodily fluids are exchanged.
It is commonly held that it needs a cut or rupture to enter the body. This is
not necessarily the case, although small cuts and abrasions that happen during
sex would aid this transmission. The walls of the rectum and vagina are
extremely absorbent, and have thousands of small capillaries close to the
surface to aid this absorption, and absorb fluids directly into the blood
stream. This is where transmission usually occurs. the chances of being
infected are extremely small- less than 1 in 100 encounters with someone who is
living with HIV. There are exceptions to this- if a person is newly infected
the viral load is very high, and if a person has lost all their immune system,
the viral load is also very high. Where a person has a high viral load, they
are more likely to infect their partners. Nevertheless, is 1 chance in 100
worth the risk?
Sex worker vs. bar slut and STI transmission
Sex workers have a very low incidence of Sexually Transmitted Infections (STIs).
Professor Basil Donovan, the head of Sydney Sexual Health, has stated that the
rate of all STIs among sex workers in Sydney is far less than 1%, compared to
the general population incidence of 8%-10% of chlamydia, and lesser rates for
gonorrhoea of between 7%-9%. Studies investigating where sex workers get
infected have shown that it is predominantly their long term partners who infect
them, as they sometimes do not use condoms outside work with their long term
partners. A Melbourne study showed the incidence of chlamydia among
approximately 400 sex workers in brothels in Melbourne was about 0.1%. In that
same study, the workers put the used condoms into a sealed sterile container.
The contents were then tested for chlamydia. Approximately 10% of clients
tested
positive for chlamydia. Only 1 of the sex workers tested positive for chlamydia
during the 3 months of the study, catching it from a client. Further studies
which show the lack of STIs among sex workers in comparison to the general
population are:
Campbell C, (1991) Prostitution, AIDS and Preventative Health Behaviour. Social
Science and Medicine, 32(12), 1367-1368
Donovan, B & Harcourt, C. (1996) The Female Sex Industry in Australia: a health
promotion model. Venereology, 9 (1): 63-67.
Pyett, P., Haste, B. & Snow, J. (1996). Risk Practices for HIV infection and
other STDs amongst female prostitutes working in legalised brothels. AIDS Care,
8 (1), 85-94
Vanwesenbeek, I., de Graaf, R., van Zeesen, G., Straver, C. & Visser. J. (1993)
Condom use by prostitutes: behaviour, factors and considerations. Journal of
Psychology and Human Sexuality, 6, 69-91
Bar sluts on the other hand, rarely have STI checks, rarely use condoms, and
sleep with a variety of men. For example, when I was flatting with a str8
woman, who was a bar slut, she would never use condoms, regardless of how often
I urged her to do so- "I'm on the pill so I don't need to" was her reply. She
had severe PID caused by several infections of chlamydia and gonorrhoea, had HPV
and abnormal cells in her pap smears. I found this out when she told me about
her abnormal smear results. I again stressed the importance of condom use and
safer sex. She still replied, "But I'm on the pill so I don't need to". This
is the height of ignorance.
If anyone is "dirty", it is the bar sluts (female AND male) who sleep with a
different person every night under the influence of alcohol. Alcohol impairs
judgement, and it is this that affects the probability of condom use.
Dental dams should also be used for oral sex (cunnilingus and anilingus) to
prevent oral transmission of STIs and parasites.
Nevertheless, there will always be some who prefer moral platitudes to real hard
fact. You can also verify information about condoms from SIECUS
(http://www.siecus.org) and their condom fact sheet at
http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0011.html
____________________
Holes in condoms:
It is true that there are microscopic holes in latex, just as there are in all
natural products. It is also true that in one study under extreme laboratory
testing, using non-standard single dipped condoms, virus particles of HIV were
able to be forced through these holes.
However, this has never been replicated using standard double dipped condoms,
and does not happen outside the laboratory. HIV needs a carrier- cells from the
body, as you have pointed out (nearly all bodily fluids contain cells of some
sort- even urine contains some epithelial cells from the pelvis and urethra).
Under normal conditions, water (2H2O) cannot get through the latex in standard
double dipped condoms. Sex workers in NZ predominantly use Durex Confidence (we
sell confidence, not condoms), Ansell Lifestyles, or Sagami Silver. These are
all triple dipped condoms, although the Sagami is slightly thicker as they are
in the latex liquid slightly longer. The natural holes in these are even
smaller than those in standard double dipped condoms
Transmission of HIV
HIV is transmitted through unprotected sex where bodily fluids are exchanged.
It is commonly held that it needs a cut or rupture to enter the body. This is
not necessarily the case, although small cuts and abrasions that happen during
sex would aid this transmission. The walls of the rectum and vagina are
extremely absorbent, and have thousands of small capillaries close to the
surface to aid this absorption, and absorb fluids directly into the blood
stream. This is where transmission usually occurs. the chances of being
infected are extremely small- less than 1 in 100 encounters with someone who is
living with HIV. There are exceptions to this- if a person is newly infected
the viral load is very high, and if a person has lost all their immune system,
the viral load is also very high. Where a person has a high viral load, they
are more likely to infect their partners. Nevertheless, is 1 chance in 100
worth the risk?
Sex worker vs. bar slut and STI transmission
Sex workers have a very low incidence of Sexually Transmitted Infections (STIs).
Professor Basil Donovan, the head of Sydney Sexual Health, has stated that the
rate of all STIs among sex workers in Sydney is far less than 1%, compared to
the general population incidence of 8%-10% of chlamydia, and lesser rates for
gonorrhoea of between 7%-9%. Studies investigating where sex workers get
infected have shown that it is predominantly their long term partners who infect
them, as they sometimes do not use condoms outside work with their long term
partners. A Melbourne study showed the incidence of chlamydia among
approximately 400 sex workers in brothels in Melbourne was about 0.1%. In that
same study, the workers put the used condoms into a sealed sterile container.
The contents were then tested for chlamydia. Approximately 10% of clients
tested
positive for chlamydia. Only 1 of the sex workers tested positive for chlamydia
during the 3 months of the study, catching it from a client. Further studies
which show the lack of STIs among sex workers in comparison to the general
population are:
Campbell C, (1991) Prostitution, AIDS and Preventative Health Behaviour. Social
Science and Medicine, 32(12), 1367-1368
Donovan, B & Harcourt, C. (1996) The Female Sex Industry in Australia: a health
promotion model. Venereology, 9 (1): 63-67.
Pyett, P., Haste, B. & Snow, J. (1996). Risk Practices for HIV infection and
other STDs amongst female prostitutes working in legalised brothels. AIDS Care,
8 (1), 85-94
Vanwesenbeek, I., de Graaf, R., van Zeesen, G., Straver, C. & Visser. J. (1993)
Condom use by prostitutes: behaviour, factors and considerations. Journal of
Psychology and Human Sexuality, 6, 69-91
Bar sluts on the other hand, rarely have STI checks, rarely use condoms, and
sleep with a variety of men. For example, when I was flatting with a str8
woman, who was a bar slut, she would never use condoms, regardless of how often
I urged her to do so- "I'm on the pill so I don't need to" was her reply. She
had severe PID caused by several infections of chlamydia and gonorrhoea, had HPV
and abnormal cells in her pap smears. I found this out when she told me about
her abnormal smear results. I again stressed the importance of condom use and
safer sex. She still replied, "But I'm on the pill so I don't need to". This
is the height of ignorance.
If anyone is "dirty", it is the bar sluts (female AND male) who sleep with a
different person every night under the influence of alcohol. Alcohol impairs
judgement, and it is this that affects the probability of condom use.
Dental dams should also be used for oral sex (cunnilingus and anilingus) to
prevent oral transmission of STIs and parasites.
Nevertheless, there will always be some who prefer moral platitudes to real hard
fact. You can also verify information about condoms from SIECUS
(http://www.siecus.org) and their condom fact sheet at
http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0011.html
Do people still actually believe that HIV can pass through latex?? IT CANNOT. Who ever told you that is ignorant of the facts. Who would tell you that? There at least 10 studies regarding Latex condoms and the HIV virus. The funny thing is they were mostly done Years and years ago. That is why I can't figure out who still is grossly misinformed like this. I agree also that this myth is propigated by Christian fundamentalist groups. I once went to meeting were a guy claimed that HIV was an airborne virus and HIV patients should be isolated. His evidence was a nurse that contracted the virus while not getting stuck by a needle and claimed to be a virgin. Of course she wouldn't lie about this. After I started questioning his facts along with a Doctor that I went with we got thrown out of the church that had this wacko speaking.
many studies have been done on this subject.
Aids can slip through a condom, although chances are slim per say the 98% effectiveness.
Any one that says it cant is only going on hear say.
I aids particles are something like .00002 in size
a condom will filter anything down to a .00003.
Aids can slip through a condom, although chances are slim per say the 98% effectiveness.
Any one that says it cant is only going on hear say.
I aids particles are something like .00002 in size
a condom will filter anything down to a .00003.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your mind has definitely been contaminated by Christian attitudes towards sex. But I realise the futility of debating Christians.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Generalization. Which Christian attitude towards sex? There are many sects of Christianity, some of which encourage promiscuity. However, if you do not believe that monogamy is a virtue, you are not only debating a Christian attitude - you are debating the position of the founders of Western thought, namely Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, none of whom ever knew anything of Christ.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
They're usually too busy looking for sin and the work of the devil when they need go no further than the nearest mirror.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Another generalization. What you are doing is no worse than saying "young black males are usually too busily involved in organized crime to realize what's imporant in life." FACT: There are young black males who are good and educated people, and there are Christians who do not go out seeking to purge sin from the world. In fact, what did Christ himself say to the crowd who wished to stone Mary Magdalene for being a whore? "Let he who has not sinned, throw the first stone." And when she asked him how to achieve forgiveness, what did he say? "Go thy way and sin no more." I'd say that any REAL Christian, who understands Christ's attitude towards all human beings, is too busy loving his fellow neighbhour to spend his whole life prosecuting sinners.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In any case self-destructive and reckless sexual behaviour is almost completely because of religion (in the West's case Christianity). It has shrouded sex with so many moralising controls and taboos that has lead to the risky and self-destructive behaviour, not to mention the pathological attitudes surrounding sex.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Untrue. Take some anthropology, and look at any culture that does not have any public nudity taboo. You will find sexual promiscuity, rape, infidelity and so forth much more abundantly than you will in the West. This is not to say that these people are inherently evil . . . they simply do not know any better because of tradition and culture.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
We've spent the last 200 years building sewage plants, vaccinating people, and engaging in mass public health projects yet the greatest disease and public hygiene problem is Christianity.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
How hateful, insulting and untrue. The greatest social disease are extremists like yourself, who really and truly believe that just because a person professes some certain metaphysical belief, be it the Atheism or Christianity, that they are automatically evil and a problem. Your disjunctive attitude towards "Christians" and "Christianity" as being a group of people who are ALL so much different than yourself, and thus inferior to you and your system of belief, is no uglier than that of the Christian Fundamentalist or the Muslim Terrorist. I am a Christian, and some of by best friends are Atheists and Agnostics, Jews and Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus - and I love all of them equally, with the love that Christ has commanded me to have for my fellow man, no matter if he is a samartan or not.
The greatest problem in Western culture is not Christianity, nor is it Atheism, nor is it Satanism, for that matter. It is an attitude like yours which simply digests and regurgitates the bullshit unreflective "Philosophy" of intolerance without even CONSIDERING it for one second.
I hope you will reconsider your views.
Your mind has definitely been contaminated by Christian attitudes towards sex. But I realise the futility of debating Christians.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Generalization. Which Christian attitude towards sex? There are many sects of Christianity, some of which encourage promiscuity. However, if you do not believe that monogamy is a virtue, you are not only debating a Christian attitude - you are debating the position of the founders of Western thought, namely Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, none of whom ever knew anything of Christ.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
They're usually too busy looking for sin and the work of the devil when they need go no further than the nearest mirror.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Another generalization. What you are doing is no worse than saying "young black males are usually too busily involved in organized crime to realize what's imporant in life." FACT: There are young black males who are good and educated people, and there are Christians who do not go out seeking to purge sin from the world. In fact, what did Christ himself say to the crowd who wished to stone Mary Magdalene for being a whore? "Let he who has not sinned, throw the first stone." And when she asked him how to achieve forgiveness, what did he say? "Go thy way and sin no more." I'd say that any REAL Christian, who understands Christ's attitude towards all human beings, is too busy loving his fellow neighbhour to spend his whole life prosecuting sinners.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In any case self-destructive and reckless sexual behaviour is almost completely because of religion (in the West's case Christianity). It has shrouded sex with so many moralising controls and taboos that has lead to the risky and self-destructive behaviour, not to mention the pathological attitudes surrounding sex.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Untrue. Take some anthropology, and look at any culture that does not have any public nudity taboo. You will find sexual promiscuity, rape, infidelity and so forth much more abundantly than you will in the West. This is not to say that these people are inherently evil . . . they simply do not know any better because of tradition and culture.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
We've spent the last 200 years building sewage plants, vaccinating people, and engaging in mass public health projects yet the greatest disease and public hygiene problem is Christianity.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
How hateful, insulting and untrue. The greatest social disease are extremists like yourself, who really and truly believe that just because a person professes some certain metaphysical belief, be it the Atheism or Christianity, that they are automatically evil and a problem. Your disjunctive attitude towards "Christians" and "Christianity" as being a group of people who are ALL so much different than yourself, and thus inferior to you and your system of belief, is no uglier than that of the Christian Fundamentalist or the Muslim Terrorist. I am a Christian, and some of by best friends are Atheists and Agnostics, Jews and Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus - and I love all of them equally, with the love that Christ has commanded me to have for my fellow man, no matter if he is a samartan or not.
The greatest problem in Western culture is not Christianity, nor is it Atheism, nor is it Satanism, for that matter. It is an attitude like yours which simply digests and regurgitates the bullshit unreflective "Philosophy" of intolerance without even CONSIDERING it for one second.
I hope you will reconsider your views.
Big Engineer
New member
athlete03 said:
For the same analogy then the condom thickness is so long for the virus that he would never make it to the other side like walking from LA to SF, I have heard the same fro catholics..."sex is sin..."
NorCalBdyBldr
New member
"Generalization. Which Christian attitude towards sex? There are many sects of Christianity, some of which encourage promiscuity. "
WOW! Certainly news to me! I have never heard of ANY Christian sect that encourages promiscuity aside from the occasional looney tunes like the "reverend" Jones of Jonestown noteriety or the Branch Davidians! Or the bigamy entrenched in the Mormon beliefs, that is IF you consider the Mormons to be Christians either--another waste of time and endlessly debatable issue that can not be resolved since it would be based on an individual's OPINION. And frankly, who cares? In fact, the only way that I have EVER heard it with Chrsitianity is that sex is ONLY for procreation between a married man and his wife! This seems pretty moralistic to me!
"However, if you do not believe that monogamy is a virtue, you are not only debating a Christian attitude - you are debating the position of the founders of Western thought, namely Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, none of whom ever knew anything of Christ. "
Western thought was not founded by only these three people--they contributed to an ongoing progression throughout the ages. You are forgetting that a lot of western ideas and beliefs, including Christianity, have many roots in Western Roman, Greek and Germanic pagan ideas and values as well. This is not to mention an awful lot that came before all of the above as well and are well engrained/entrenched in Western thinking. And promiscuity was well embraced by most of the preChristian European cultures. So it would seem that there is more than one ideal really. And once again, it comes to personal attitudes and choices and MORALITY. Just because a person does NOT see monogamy as a virtue, that is his/her opinion and belief system. That view, however, is NOT entirely inconsistent with all traditional western thought, depending on how you view it.
WOW! Certainly news to me! I have never heard of ANY Christian sect that encourages promiscuity aside from the occasional looney tunes like the "reverend" Jones of Jonestown noteriety or the Branch Davidians! Or the bigamy entrenched in the Mormon beliefs, that is IF you consider the Mormons to be Christians either--another waste of time and endlessly debatable issue that can not be resolved since it would be based on an individual's OPINION. And frankly, who cares? In fact, the only way that I have EVER heard it with Chrsitianity is that sex is ONLY for procreation between a married man and his wife! This seems pretty moralistic to me!
"However, if you do not believe that monogamy is a virtue, you are not only debating a Christian attitude - you are debating the position of the founders of Western thought, namely Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, none of whom ever knew anything of Christ. "
Western thought was not founded by only these three people--they contributed to an ongoing progression throughout the ages. You are forgetting that a lot of western ideas and beliefs, including Christianity, have many roots in Western Roman, Greek and Germanic pagan ideas and values as well. This is not to mention an awful lot that came before all of the above as well and are well engrained/entrenched in Western thinking. And promiscuity was well embraced by most of the preChristian European cultures. So it would seem that there is more than one ideal really. And once again, it comes to personal attitudes and choices and MORALITY. Just because a person does NOT see monogamy as a virtue, that is his/her opinion and belief system. That view, however, is NOT entirely inconsistent with all traditional western thought, depending on how you view it.
