Prison Lifting: For or Against?

[BodybuildingUniverse]

Was just reading a debate on an old article in Sports Illustrated regarding a convicted murderer (Greg Lowe) serving a life sentence that was allowed to leave the prison to compete in a major powerlifting competition —_which he won.

What are your thoughts? Should any prisoners be allowed to lift — let alone compete? Should it be based on the crime?

A quote from Rick Telander, author of the Sports Illustrated Article as it appeared in the Oct 17, 1988 edition:

“You say to it yourself every time you enter one of these joints. Doors clang or roll or buzz shut behind you, and you think, “If I really had to, if I really had to, I could do time. Not that I want to. God help me, God help any man who crosses into darkness. But if I had to – with the help of sports, maybe – I could do time. I’m sure I could . . .”

 

[Bulldog_10]

I'm against it...it's just asking for trouble.

 

[The_Eviscerator]

I think you have to give the prisoners something to do athletically. It gives them some hope and can be used as a control mechanism. If the prisoners have something they enjoy they will be less likely to act violently in fear of losing the privelage.

We seem to forget that prisons are called "Correctional" facilities. Some people seem to think that there should be nothing but pain and violence for prisoners during their time there. What happens when they are released? The pain and violence is unleashed on society.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I think you have to give the prisoners something to do athletically. It gives them some hope and can be used as a control mechanism. If the prisoners have something they enjoy they will be less likely to act violently in fear of losing the privelage.

We seem to forget that prisons are called "Correctional" facilities. Some people seem to think that there should be nothing but pain and violence for prisoners during their time there. What happens when they are released? The pain and violence is unleashed on society.

Maybe it could be used as a privilege or something like that. Or maybe you can work out on specific days, so that there aren't too many people around the weights at the same time.

 

[BigAndy69]

Definetely for! You need to give these guys something to look forward to...you don't just lock them up and throw away the key...

 

[DeepZenPill]

You know there's a huge problem with our prisons regarding actual correction and rehabilitation. Prison shouldn't be a country club, but the prisoners should be given constructive activities to participate in. Athletics definitely falls under this category. Just punishing our prisoners doesn't fix shit. They just get released back to society and become repeat offenders.

In countries where they actually focus on rehabilitation in prison they have far fewer repeat offenders. But then again Americans might just be a whole different beast when it comes to crime.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Definetely for! You need to give these guys something to look forward to...you don't just lock them up and throw away the key...

most of them, no...but some of them, I'd definitely lock them up and throw away the key.

 

[tiger88]

ALL for it, one of my bros finds from the joint said that it was the highlight of his day to lift for the time being in the yard(this dude nver lifted before he got into the joint and loved it and still does now outsideprison) and about some of them getting TOO big or TOO strong is bullshit, THEY WILL KICK YOUR ASS WETHER LIFTING WIEGHTS OR NOT, OR STABB YOU NO MATTER WHAT THEY CAN BENCH.....plus lifting wieghts lowers deppression so that too

 

[jubei]

I am for it 100 percent. Give them something positive to work towards.

 

[Devastation]

Pro weights in prison systems. Gives those guys something worth striving for.

 

[Bam Bam]

He's a fucking convicted murderer! What if it would have been your child or wife or mother he brutally murdered, would you still have the same feeling? Would you feel good knowing that the man who murdered your family member was going to get to leave prison and go and perform on a stage where people can clap and cheer for him? He needs to be executed in my opinion. For a small time crook, sure, I am for them being rehabilitated and for them having things to work forward too. But for a piece of shit murderer or rapist or child molester, fuck them all. You guys are the type of bleeding heart people who give pieces of shit like him more rights than the victoms. You guys flame on but I will never change my opinion. BamBam

 

[SeanHolmz]

As far as lifting in prison, yes. As far as being able to leave prison to compete in an event, NO!!

 

[JibbyJabba]

He's a fucking convicted murderer! What if it would have been your child or wife or mother he brutally murdered, would you still have the same feeling? Would you feel good knowing that the man who murdered your family member was going to get to leave prison and go and perform on a stage where people can clap and cheer for him? He needs to be executed in my opinion. For a small time crook, sure, I am for them being rehabilitated and for them having things to work forward too. But for a piece of shit murderer or rapist or child molester, fuck them all. You guys are the type of bleeding heart people who give pieces of shit like him more rights than the victoms. You guys flame on but I will never change my opinion. BamBam

Thank You...

I guess we're alone in thinking that a convicted murderer has surrendered all of his rights to participate in one of the greatest sports ever.

And am I crazy to think my tax dollars ought not go to support violent criminals making themselves physically stronger?

Anyone who thinks that a violent criminal ought to be allowed to lift in prison has never been a victim or known a victim of a violent crime, and/or lack an adequate sociological imagination to be able to conceive of what it might be like for a rape victim to know their attacker is paying his debt to society by getting huge.... or maybe they are violent people themselves and empathize with violent criminals. Either way...it's irrational. Supporting a murderer's right to participate in a power-lifting meet is more than ludicrous.

Criminals convicted of non-assualtive offenses are another story, however... even then, it should be a select privilege and not a right.

 

[jubei]

It should be based on the individual circumstances of the crime as well as the behavior of the individual while incarcerated.

 

[chanmanfoo]

in most prisons the weights are a privilege. you get a write up and its one of the first things you lose. without weights and books in the prison system you pretty much take away all a person has left. we all make mistakes sometimes some of us fuck up to the point of no return. however i believe there is some good in everybody. i dont believe anyone wakes up and decides to destroy their life and end up doing a long prison bid.
foo

 

[juice4me]

for it for some, but I too feel that violent criminals have no right to freedoms. Espeacially murders, I feel once you end a life yours should be ended too. Im sure some of you saying 100% no would have a big change of heart if you spent time in for say something we find to be an everyday norm. Most of us arnt exactly performing legal operations and what if someday your number got called and you got thrown in for any amount of time I bet you would be glad to be able to continue lifting.

 

[easy]

Thank You...

I guess we're alone in thinking that a convicted murderer has surrendered all of his rights to participate in one of the greatest sports ever.

And am I crazy to think my tax dollars ought not go to support violent criminals making themselves physically stronger?

Anyone who thinks that a violent criminal ought to be allowed to lift in prison has never been a victim or known a victim of a violent crime, and/or lack an adequate sociological imagination to be able to conceive of what it might be like for a rape victim to know their attacker is paying his debt to society by getting huge.... or maybe they are violent people themselves and empathize with violent criminals. Either way...it's irrational. Supporting a murderer's right to participate in a power-lifting meet is more than ludicrous.

Criminals convicted of non-assualtive offenses are another story, however... even then, it should be a select privilege and not a right.

My thoughts exactly. Well put.

 

[unclep]

punishment should equal the crime!

VIOLENT-repeat offenders, HELL NA (high security prisions)
nonviolent, first-timers , Ofcousre (low security prision)

unclep

 

[Devastation]

Pro weights in prison systems. Gives those guys something worth striving for.

Let me clarify my post. In prison yes. allowed to leave the confined space of the prison walls for ANY reason, NO.

And for all those who posted eye for an eye type retribution for violent criminals, you obviously are "above" the rest of us walking this planet. And before anyone flames me any shit, I have been touched by violent criminals. A friend of mine, a classmate in junior high, was shot to death in her sleep, along with her mother who was in a different room, by a previously declared "dangerous" escaped mental patient. Yes he made the "choice" to kill, he had a severe imbalane, but I never ever would want to be in a postition to decide who lives and who dies. That is not for me choose. Remember, this is my opinion, and I don't want any flames for it. I realize it is also your opinion and right to believe in what you choose. Whether it is morally right or not is another thread.

 

[Big_Nims]

I agree, it's okay for them to lift weights within the confins of the prison, but they shouldnt under any circumstances be allowed to leave the prison to compete. They are there because they committed a crime, ie...couldnt live within the constraints of the rules and regulations of society. Untill they pay their debt to society, and learn to follow the rules which govern us all, then they shouldn't be allowed to be a part of society in any form. Just my two cents. I know for a fact that they have inter prison powerlifting competitions, which should be good enough to hold them over until they get released.

 

[Johnny Cut]

Im for it, a busy prisioner will stay out of trouble...plus the whole 20 mins they get to work out/ day isnt really alot,......well thats what it is in the Maximum security system in the northeast

 

[supertech69]

I'm 100% for an eye for an eye! As brutal and grotesque as it may seem to some. It works in 3rd world countries. The crime & types of crimes committed are absolutely out of control in the US. I believe that extreme measures need to be taken. Actually what I truly believe is that this country is so far gone when it comes to crime, that we will never dig our way out of it.

So, for someone charged with a violent crime, should they be allowed to lift, hell no. For someone thrown in for say, tax evasion or busted for something like, I dunno..........receiving controlled substance via the mailman (sound familiar) I say absolutely but, even in that case it should be an earned priveledge. In any case, I am totally against a free fucking college education, cable TV & all that other bullshit. Why should I have to bust my ass 50hrs a week & be up to my ass in debt to get a degree then turn around & pay tax dollars for them to go, fuck that! Someone who, in most cases, has absolutely no respect for the soceity that provides their means of these comforts while in prison.

There, my $.02

 

[chanmanfoo]

I'm 100% for an eye for an eye! As brutal and grotesque as it may seem to some. It works in 3rd world countries. The crime & types of crimes committed are absolutely out of control in the US. I believe that extreme measures need to be taken. Actually what I truly believe is that this country is so far gone when it comes to crime, that we will never dig our way out of it.

So, for someone charged with a violent crime, should they be allowed to lift, hell no. For someone thrown in for say, tax evasion or busted for something like, I dunno..........receiving controlled substance via the mailman (sound familiar) I say absolutely but, even in that case it should be an earned priveledge. In any case, I am totally against a free fucking college education, cable TV & all that other bullshit. Why should I have to bust my ass 50hrs a week & be up to my ass in debt to get a degree then turn around & pay tax dollars for them to go, fuck that! Someone who, in most cases, has absolutely no respect for the soceity that provides their means of these comforts while in prison.

There, my $.02

the key word here is third world country. possibly we should start hacking off the hands of our shoplifters or staging a good ol public execution in the town square. why should the magnitude of ones crime decide the humanity of their punishment? are we not all humans? i am in no way lobbying for violent crime but i feel these sort of ideas were discredited long ago for good reason. at what point does this sort of "punishment" become more depraved than the original crime.
foo

 

[Paiddailey]

There are differant security in intstitutional settings, they range from high max. security decending to minimum security there is usually around 4 to 5 "levels" of security, one may because of a more minor crime be placed in a low security setting usually his (or her)first go-round, and another may begin in am high max (murder, repeat offender etc.) there are two other ways to increase or decreae your security housing, one way is to fuck up
(higher level) another way is to "program" (lower level)
in a min. sec. setting thier should be weights as an incentive, it gives the high level inmates something to "program"for and it give's the lower level people a great form of rehab, most people in the lower security levels are more prone to rehab than the more violent or repeat offender in the higher level who refuses to "program"...
I can tell you unequivically the main reason for weights being removed from certain states corrections dept.s is that because of the explosive growth of prisons and prison populations in the U.S.
over the past decade+ has called for a massive recruitment of correctional officers, a GREAT portion of which are women and smaller size men, and they are simply intimidated by a LARGE convict, so the C/O unions (who are massive political contributers for governers etc.)called for the removal of said weights...
That IS the bottom line, and soon there will be no weights in any prison in our great country, which by the way I disagree with...

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

The main cause for grief with the inmate I mentioned is the fact that he is a convicted murderer, in for life with no chance of parole. He has gotten magazine coverage as well as leaving the prison to compete as mentioned. You have to wonder how the family of the victim must feel seeing this guy competing in sports, getting recognition, etc. He is supposedly a "model prisoner" and has been in for 20+ years and I guess the argument could be made that for the safety of the guards, give this guy an outlet. Just hard to swallow you and I footing the bill for this guy to compete in a sport that some high school kids cannot afford to. (Greg "Beetle" Lowe is also sponsored by - given free powerlifting gear by — Titan, a supportive gear/belt maker)

 

[Paiddailey]

I completely agree w/you.
There are some who deserve nothing, and in my above scenario very few (if any) murderers would ever make a min. security setting.
And for the system to temporarily release a murderer for any reason is reprehensible, much less for recreational purposes...
I do, however, believe that weights could play a key role in rehabilitation and behavior modification, in a MINIMUM security setting...
This is a political / social issue that in certain circles has been a heated topic for quite a while, many disagree on the philosophy of prison rehab and prison activities.
We live in a society that is plagued w/violent crime, drug abuse, and fear to walk down the street at night.
As a result I think most people just kind of lump all people who commit any crime into one catagory, and most wan't them to be harshly punished, I feel this is largely just social anger manifest, it's an outlet for our general anger.
Our great country is in peril, on this I am sure you agree, and there is no clear solution on how to deal w/people in the system
My brother was murdered on new years eve 97", a random act of violence, they never caught who did, if they did I would want death, blood for blood, no more no less, on the other hand my house was burglurized a few yrs. back, they caught the kid who did it and he was all fucked up on crack, he was a neighbor's kid and I knew him, good kid man, not that this matters but he was a 16 year old white kid from a mid class neighborhood in a ca. beach city, it was tough to see the affect on him and his parents...
Well, anyway I guess it's just about variables...
Peace

 

[thelegacy]

forget it---throw away the key

 

[Bam Bam]

the key word here is third world country. possibly we should start hacking off the hands of our shoplifters or staging a good ol public execution in the town square. why should the magnitude of ones crime decide the humanity of their punishment? are we not all humans? i am in no way lobbying for violent crime but i feel these sort of ideas were discredited long ago for good reason. at what point does this sort of "punishment" become more depraved than the original crime.
foo

No, murderers, rapists and child molesters are not human. And, yes, maybe if we starting de-balling molesters and rapists, lynching murderers and cutting off the hands of thiefs, there would be less crime in America. Then, I wouldn't worry so much everytime my sister gets on the highway at night with her 3 and 5 year old daughters , or I wouldn't worry about my mother pulling up at a not so well lit conveinence store at 2 in the morning. Criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens in this country. And let me say that you have the right to your opinion and even though I respect it, I don't understand it. Now, let me clarify what I said, non violent criminals should be allowed certain privilages like lifting weights and I would even go so far as to sy that I wouldn't mind if they were allowed to leave and compete once and while if I thought it have them some hope and something to work towards other than crime. But under no circumstances, should violent criminals be allowed any such luxeries ESPECIALLY being let out to go compete and seek glory. BamBam

 

[jasonstrong]

I am for it based on personal experience I judged a powerlifting contest at a prison with a friend and the prisoners that lifted were the most well behaved for the most part...lifting is a privlege and any violations of the rules you lose the time for it they only allowed these guys 3 days a week and not a whole lot of time but there were some amazing physiques in there guys benching 5-600 and squatting and deading 800 off of that rotten food....let em lift it might curb the violence...no leaving site to compete I don't know..sort of like a mini work release...?

 

[halfaclue]

No, murderers, rapists and child molesters are not human. And, yes, maybe if we starting de-balling molesters and rapists, lynching murderers and cutting off the hands of thiefs, there would be less crime in America. Then, I wouldn't worry so much everytime my sister gets on the highway at night with her 3 and 5 year old daughters , or I wouldn't worry about my mother pulling up at a not so well lit conveinence store at 2 in the morning. Criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens in this country. And let me say that you have the right to your opinion and even though I respect it, I don't understand it. Now, let me clarify what I said, non violent criminals should be allowed certain privilages like lifting weights and I would even go so far as to sy that I wouldn't mind if they were allowed to leave and compete once and while if I thought it have them some hope and something to work towards other than crime. But under no circumstances, should violent criminals be allowed any such luxeries ESPECIALLY being let out to go compete and seek glory. BamBam

Right on! Breaking a law is one thing, violating a person and or their rights is another. You want to rape or molest children then lop it off. You want to kill people then put my finger on the switch because I won't think twice. Would I say I could kill a rapist...probably not unless it was someone I knew who was the victum. But a murderer, I'd stand in line for the oppertunity.

 

[jubei]

I think there are too many young, angry children on here. Laws and penalties are based on the values of the society as a whole. Obviously if everyone felt the same way as many people on this board we would be executing criminals left and right, and cutting the hands from 12 year old shoplifters.

But then who would decide who is to die? Should it be you? What gives anyone the right to decide its time for another person to die? Then there is the 3rd world justice system argument. I am embarrassed for you bro, I can't belive anyone would be that moronic. If you had any idea how corrupt the "justice" system is in places like India or Iran or what its like to live in constant fear you would rethink your posisiton. Recently a man killed his wife in India and bribed the police with a cow. Great system, sign me up. Women should probably be considered property while your at it, going with the 3rd world theme.

Alot of criminals have been show to have terrible childhoods, and maybe got beaten or raped themselves as children. Also keep in mind that even a convicted rapist or murderer is likely to re-join society at some time. Why not treat these people with decency and god forbid give them and education so when they are free they feel like they have other options than to go back to crime.

Remember that while incarcerated the loss of freedom is the punishment not loss of all human rights.

 

[halfaclue]

I think there are too many young, angry children on here. Laws and penalties are based on the values of the society as a whole. Obviously if everyone felt the same way as many people on this board we would be executing criminals left and right, and cutting the hands from 12 year old shoplifters.

But then who would decide who is to die? Should it be you? What gives anyone the right to decide its time for another person to die? Then there is the 3rd world justice system argument. I am embarrassed for you bro, I can't belive anyone would be that moronic. If you had any idea how corrupt the "justice" system is in places like India or Iran or what its like to live in constant fear you would rethink your posisiton. Recently a man killed his wife in India and bribed the police with a cow. Great system, sign me up. Women should probably be considered property while your at it, going with the 3rd world theme.

Alot of criminals have been show to have terrible childhoods, and maybe got beaten or raped themselves as children. Also keep in mind that even a convicted rapist or murderer is likely to re-join society at some time. Why not treat these people with decency and god forbid give them and education so when they are free they feel like they have other options than to go back to crime.

Remember that while incarcerated the loss of freedom is the punishment not loss of all human rights. [/QUOTE

Now unlike gear and chemistry...I did go to college for Public Justice so I feel confident hen I say this. 90% of all crime in the us is committed by the same 10% of society. That means that these rapists don't get out of prision and grab a job a dennys and work there way up to middlemanagement. They want and take and break laws to get it. Educating prisioners has been going on for over a decade and re-occurance rates are moving along with the population of the prisions systems. That method HAS BEEN tried. I'm not saying cut off the hand of 12 yesr old shop lifter but yes I believe in castrating a rapist and killing a murderer. We not talking about killing a guy who embazles money or steals cars, we are talking about a person who decide it was time to end someone else life...that very second they gave up the right to choose if they live or die. Jubei if you want to volunteer at a prision and try to re-hab criminals..more power to you and I don't think that the program should end because some people change....but come on...you want a rapist working at a bar? Do you want a murderer cleaning schools? There aren't many jobs for people that are convicted felons.

 

[Bulldog_10]

rapists and murderers should never get out of prison. And if the crime is bad enough, sure...kill them. Why does anyone care about someone who killed another person? Yeah, great...maybe some of them had bad childhoods, that excuse is getting pretty old. Guess what, if we started treating rapists and murderers like they should be treated, these kids wouldn't be having bad childhoods, cuz their parents would be the ones in prison.

 

[jubei]

Do you want a murderer cleaning schools? There aren't many jobs for people that are convicted felons

To answer your question, I would rather them tending bar and cleaning schools than murdering and raping. Although your choice of occupation for a murderer could be a little bit better than placing him around children. Actually what am I thinking US schools already have their own rapists and murderers, its the students.

You claim to be an expert on the justice system...how many times do women accuse men of rape and end up losing the case or dropping the charges. I sure hope they haven't cut his dick off yet. How many times has DNA admonished a rapist or murderer in the past 10 years. What are you gonna say to those people? Oops sorry about your dick, or if he's been executed? Sorry about your husband/father we made a mistake. So next time you go out and have sex, make sure you bring a tape recorded and get legal consent in writing or you just might get your dick chopped if the girl's mental or lying about her age. Of course girls nowadays never do that.

Since your the numbers man, please back them up. You said 90 percent of crime is committed by the same 10 percent of the population...prove it. Also find out how many of those criminals were themselves abused and or neglected from childhood or grew up in poverty.

 

[Bulldog_10]

To answer your question, I would rather them tending bar and cleaning schools than murdering and raping. Although your choice of occupation for a murderer could be a little bit better than placing him around children. Actually what am I thinking US schools already have their own rapists and murderers, its the students.

You claim to be an expert on the justice system...how many times do women accuse men of rape and end up losing the case or dropping the charges. I sure hope they haven't cut his dick off yet. How many times has DNA admonished a rapist or murderer in the past 10 years. What are you gonna say to those people? Oops sorry about your dick, or if he's been executed? Sorry about your husband/father we made a mistake. So next time you go out and have sex, make sure you bring a tape recorded and get legal consent in writing or you just might get your dick chopped if the girl's mental or lying about her age. Of course girls nowadays never do that.

Since your the numbers man, please back them up. You said 90 percent of crime is committed by the same 10 percent of the population...prove it. Also find out how many of those criminals were themselves abused and or neglected from childhood or grew up in poverty.

Of course there are the wrongly accused...and i dont think he was saying cut all their dicks off, or kill them all. But if it's proven, no doubt about it (OJ) then yes, there need to be stricter penalties.

 

[halfaclue]

To answer your question, I would rather them tending bar and cleaning schools than murdering and raping. Although your choice of occupation for a murderer could be a little bit better than placing him around children. Actually what am I thinking US schools already have their own rapists and murderers, its the students.

You claim to be an expert on the justice system...how many times do women accuse men of rape and end up losing the case or dropping the charges. I sure hope they haven't cut his dick off yet. How many times has DNA admonished a rapist or murderer in the past 10 years. What are you gonna say to those people? Oops sorry about your dick, or if he's been executed? Sorry about your husband/father we made a mistake. So next time you go out and have sex, make sure you bring a tape recorded and get legal consent in writing or you just might get your dick chopped if the girl's mental or lying about her age. Of course girls nowadays never do that.

Since your the numbers man, please back them up. You said 90 percent of crime is committed by the same 10 percent of the population...prove it. Also find out how many of those criminals were themselves abused and or neglected from childhood or grew up in poverty.

Visit the Fed gov site and you view hours of visual pleasure concerning statistics of criminals by state or by the US overall. Again to agree with bull-dog and I hate doing that, who cares if they were abused as a childhood.

Little timmy had his mom put cigarettes out on his back so its ok that he he beat up bobby and took his lunch money....Oh that little billy keyed the principles car...Oh well he was abused so it isn't his fault.

By saying crap like that and it is crap, not only are you taking away the responsability from his actions but also his parents. I'm not saying you are a "bleeding heart" but by your views the only person who is really punished is the victim and they did nothing wrong.

And yes, you do not kill someone without them going through appeals processes and you would not lop of a mans genitals until that same process is given its proper chance. Is the justice system perfect...hell no..we have murders getting out of jail because they can bench a lot. But it is governed by the same rules for everyone..so as they say in golf. If it is not fair for everyone then it is fair.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

with the skyrocketing cost of prisons and the legal system every year, money being cut from education as a result of increasing costs of prisons, this problem appears to be sonmething that could become a trend of less money for schools to fund the growing number of people in prison.

Most everyone on this board has taken some sort of sociology class in high school. What is a huge contributing factor to criminal deviance? How about SES. What is a large part of SES, or better yet ill just state it. Education. Since higher educated people as a rule are the ones with the most money and the least likely to commit crimes such as murder, rape, GTA, thievery and so on. Why not try to educate/reeducate these criminals, or even better, use their labor as a bigger part of the work force doing petty jobs like late night janitorial work and things of that sort? MY God, we're paying to put them in there, why not make them work.
at least make them good at something so if they get out of prison they have a chance to make it, like there's some hope for them not to just have a return trip to prison.

Why not appease them a little bit by letting them lift? make prisoners work 60 hours a week doing janitor/cleanup/ anything that an entry level person can do, and have something like lifting be a reward? We're not going to get a good return on the tax money we spend on prisons, no matter how you look at it, but instead of sitting in theirr cells all day, a program that puts the majority of criminals doing "slave labor" to the benefit of the rest of society could at least soften the blow of the costs of the prison system.

now lifting for lazy ass murderers that dont do anything but cause trouble, or' anyone of that sort. i dont agree with that, but if its a reward, and we arent putting Gold's gym in any prisons then why not make it a reward?

 

[Bulldog_10]

Again to agree with bull-dog and I hate doing that

What in the?!?!!

 

[jubei]

Well there is much more violent crime in the US than in Canada per capita and you guys have the death penalty. Seems to be working well for you guys.

Who cares if a child had cigarettes put out on his back? I don't want to make this personal but you are an idiot. I really would be asking for my money back from college because you have obviously learned nothing. I would expect something more from you. If your views are so sound and logical its a wonder they haven't caught on. I just don't understand why we don't castrate and decapitate people on a more regular basis.

The prison officials at sing sing recently stated how much better behaved the prisoners were and how much more likely they were to integrate back into society if they were treated better and given an education while doing time.

Well, I probably offended you, but that wasn't my original intention. People like you drive me crazy, I can't understand whats wrong with you.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Well there is much more violent crime in the US than in Canada per capita and you guys have the death penalty. Seems to be working well for you guys.

Who cares if a child had cigarettes put out on his back? I don't want to make this personal but you are an idiot. I really would be asking for my money back from college because you have obviously learned nothing. I would expect something more from you. If your views are so sound and logical its a wonder they haven't caught on. I just don't understand why we don't castrate and decapitate people on a more regular basis.

The prison officials at sing sing recently stated how much better behaved the prisoners were and how much more likely they were to integrate back into society if they were treated better and given an education while doing time.

Well, I probably offended you, but that wasn't my original intention. People like you drive me crazy, I can't understand whats wrong with you.

First off...you can't compare the US and Canada...they are two totally different places, with totally different people. Second, most states don't have the death penalty. Third, most criminals can't be integreated back into society.

Think about it, these people MURDER people knowing full well that they will most likely be caught. That person is most likely not capable of being integrated into society...if they were, they wouldn't kill anyone in the first place.

 

[halfaclue]

What in the?!?!!

80% of the posts I have made you disagree with and vice-versa. Recently we have been agreeing so I am just busting balls.

 

[halfaclue]

Well there is much more violent crime in the US than in Canada per capita and you guys have the death penalty. Seems to be working well for you guys.

Who cares if a child had cigarettes put out on his back? I don't want to make this personal but you are an idiot. I really would be asking for my money back from college because you have obviously learned nothing. I would expect something more from you. If your views are so sound and logical its a wonder they haven't caught on. I just don't understand why we don't castrate and decapitate people on a more regular basis.

The prison officials at sing sing recently stated how much better behaved the prisoners were and how much more likely they were to integrate back into society if they were treated better and given an education while doing time.

Well, I probably offended you, but that wasn't my original intention. People like you drive me crazy, I can't understand whats wrong with you.

You are confusing me with somoen else...I'm not saying beat and kill every prisioner. If a guy gets in a bar fight and is charged with assault he does not deserve to die...if he kills his ex-girlfriend he does. Since Canada has so many different governing bodies I can slam you directly but growing pot is Canada's number source of income and where do they sell it? to the US. Smoking pot is illegal in canada but you have bars made just for that and the police look the other way because of the money it brings in from us pot head americans. I'm sorry I am so ignorant and thick-headed and if I was smarter I might be offended. Keep in mind the majority of people in prision (specially in NY) are not for violent crimes, so a Warden at Sing Sing could be telling the truth but what you said. Now ask that same warden about how nice the murders and rapists behave compared to the regular population???

 

[chanmanfoo]

consider this: you give one of your good buddies a couple hundred dbol, he takes fistfulls and dies while choking on his own vomit. cops trace it to you and you get man1. what catagory of criminal does this make you.
your driving down the main road going 10-20 miles per hour too fast, you look down to change the radio and when you look up, you realize its too late. you just turned a twelve year old girl in the crosswalk into hamburg meat. does this make you a life long loser?
i find it ironic that our own people would be so quick to hurt their own in the name of justice/revenge. i honestly dont know who is sicker, the murderer or the society that wants to play god.
foo

 

[halfaclue]

consider this: you give one of your good buddies a couple hundred dbol, he takes fistfulls and dies while choking on his own vomit. cops trace it to you and you get man1. what catagory of criminal does this make you.
your driving down the main road going 10-20 miles per hour too fast, you look down to change the radio and when you look up, you realize its too late. you just turned a twelve year old girl in the crosswalk into hamburg meat. does this make you a life long loser?
i find it ironic that our own people would be so quick to hurt their own in the name of justice/revenge. i honestly dont know who is sicker, the murderer or the society that wants to play god.
foo

Both things you said are not murder...that is why our justice system differentiates between them. You un-lock your gun cabinet and drive 15 miles to your bosses house and shoot him in the drive way that is intentional and it is murder.

 

[jubei]

Marijuana is BC's number 1 export not Canadas so maybe some more research or less talking is in order. Actually softwood was the number 1 export for BC, but then the americans true to form imposed unjust tarriffs (decided by an unbaised hearing) on BC softwood, although I'm not going to open that can of worms.

Since you really don't know what your talking about its best to say nothing. There are no "cannabils cafe's" in BC, however since marijuana is decriminalized here police really have more important things to worry about like all the gang killings going on lately.

Chanman's posts were in my opinion the most intelligent ones on this subject by far. We are not going to see eye to eye on this one so I rest my case.

 

[halfaclue]

Marijuana is BC's number 1 export not Canadas so maybe some more research or less talking is in order.

OK now you are just being ridiculous...go to www.cbc.ca and search Marijuana...your own freaking news station reported that Marijuna sales brought in more money to canada then ANY OTHER EXPORT. NOT BC's but CANADA's...fault your broadcasting for reporting this misconception that you know to be fact but don't tell me to do research.



Since you really don't know what your talking about its best to say nothing. There are no "cannabils cafe's" in BC

My bad, talk to MARC EMERY,Owner, Cannabis Cafe, and talk to Gilles Duceppe who i believe is a politician who had an interview with a CBC reporter in a Marijuana Bar in Montreal.

To bad my education sucks and I need to do more research.

 

[halfaclue]

and ...if you keep checking out the links you will see the marijuna cafes in Vancouver....where is Vancouver again...oh wait I think it is...yup it definitely is in B.C.

and lets throw in another Provience.....in Saint John, New
Brunswick, Harry Forestell of CBC reports from the Pot Cafe.

I can't believe all these new agencies are wrong. Good thing they have such smart citizens like Jubei to tell us americans the truth.

 

[jubei]

I live in vancouver you dumb fuck. There are no business operating in canada that sell marijuana legally. You are retarded.

 

[halfaclue]

Let me talk slower....Step 1 go to www.cbc.ca
Step 2 type in Marijuana
Your third link down should say "Dicriminalization of cannabis" open the link and read. The compassion club is located in vancouver....they sell weed.
Here is a quote from the article "Chris Bennett, who runs Pot TV from the back of his marijuana bookstore in downtown Vancouver, says police will be pressured to enforce the new drug policy which will close down weed bars."...where is Pot TV produced? Vancouver..and you didn't know that? Also there is a picture of a bar with a neon marijuana leaf on the sign. the address is below it and it too is in Vancouver. Now anyone who cares can look this up and see what obnoxious little lying bastard you are. Not to mention your inability to maintain an intelectual conversation without resorting to name calling. I bet your Canada's Pride!

 

[jubei]

Annoying little shit? I gaurantee I'd beat your faggot ass. Listen here retard, it is illegal to sell marijuana in Canada. Go back to school asshole. I have sold more marijuana than you have ever seen you little dick snot. You think you know more about this game than me bitch? Yeah thats right its legal to sell marijuana thats why 3 or my friends are in jail for PPT. You presumptious little asshole. Come to Vancouver and then run your mouth.

Of course everything I post here on EF is for entertainment purposes only and have no bearing with reality.

 

[halfaclue]

Annoying little shit? I gaurantee I'd beat your faggot ass. Listen here retard, it is illegal to sell marijuana in Canada. Go back to school asshole. I have sold more marijuana than you have ever seen you little dick snot. You think you know more about this game than me bitch? Yeah thats right its legal to sell marijuana thats why 3 or my friends are in jail for PPT. You presumptious little asshole. Come to Vancouver and then run your mouth.

Of course everything I post here on EF is for entertainment purposes only and have no bearing with reality.

Well we agree that it is illegal, I am saying it still goes on and the police know and do nothing about it. The point of this was because you were bashing the american justice system and yours is just as corrupt. Now can you teach me how to use all those bad words like you do. It is so impressive and I know my friends would be jealous of me if I could only be so cool. It now makes sense why you want easier punishments for criminals being you and your friends are. Why didn't you say that to begin with, at least that would have been respectable.

 

[Bam Bam]

Okay boys, kiss and make up. What started as a weight training thread has turned into a free for all. I don't believe in killing or de-balling unless the evidence is overwelming. I do agree with who ever spoke of hard labor. I totally agree that all jailbirds should do labor work for the states and government based on there crimes. Let them do work that normally tax payers have to pay for. As for the hard core criminals, let them bust rock with a sledge hammer in 105 degree heat until they drop dead. Like I said, I respect you guys opinions but I dont understand some of it and will never agree with it as long as I live. Now pay attention to this, my girl reads true crime books all of the time. She was just last week reading one about the asshole who went through the prison systems at least 9 times. Some ass wad criminal rights attorney got him released from prison on a murder charge on a technicality deal. He continued to rob, rape, steal and murder and remember, he went throught the system 9 times. Finally after he had murdered 16 people, he was sent to prison for good. Now, I would like to hear you guys tell the familys of the last victims how this guy deserves a fair chance and how he should have been more properly educated. BamBam

 

[halfaclue]

He continued to rob, rape, steal and murder and remember, he went throught the system 9 times. Finally after he had murdered 16 people, he was sent to prison for good. Now, I would like to hear you guys tell the familys of the last victims how this guy deserves a fair chance and how he should have been more properly educated. BamBam

There is no way that could happen because if you treat prisoners like people and eduacte them then they will magiclly turn into model citizens. Maybe we can work out deal with vancouver where they give us Pot and we give them prisioners to rehab, that way the murders and rapists can hang with Jubei and then maybe he would stand in line to throw the switch once it was his family that was victumized.

 

[cartoonman]

if they want to lift weights, let them break and lift huge rock all day, it'll give the fuckers a good work ethic as well as size. alot of you dont understand , most inmates think that the system atleasted owes them the ability to work out in prison. they take advantage of all of it. there is no respect for what they have, very few inmates realize that being able to work out in prison is a privledge and can be taken away in seconds. this is just my two cents and an opinion that i have formulated from working w/ some of the nastiest dirtiest sickest non respectful leaches (inmates)that any state or fed prison can offer you.

 

[halfaclue]

if they want to lift weights, let them break and lift huge rock all day, it'll give the fuckers a good work ethic as well as size. alot of you dont understand , most inmates think that the system atleasted owes them the ability to work out in prison. they take advantage of all of it. there is no respect for what they have, very few inmates realize that being able to work out in prison is a privledge and can be taken away in seconds. this is just my two cents and an opinion that i have formulated from working w/ some of the nastiest dirtiest sickest non respectful leaches (inmates)that any state or fed prison can offer you.

I totally agree, I have a distant cousin who has done time in Sing Sing and Chino and he acts like he is a victim and the state owes him something. Scumbags like that will never learn.

 

[tiger88]

wow i forgot about this thread.....good reads here

 

[solidspine]

They should definitely be allowed to lift, I think competing would be wrong. I am sure they can get gear in State, or County Jails and Prisons, they have all the street drugs.

 

[tiger88]

They should definitely be allowed to lift, I think competing would be wrong. I am sure they can get gear in State, or County Jails and Prisons, they have all the street drugs.

LOL @ gear in prsion

i saw a show in A&E and some dude got busted with a few hundered pink d bols



maybe he should have used papers

 

[faller]

Well, getting back to some of the earlier comments...I'm with those who don't think they should be allowed to leave and compete.

Someone mentioned other countries doing rehab that worked. Where? (that's not a flame, I'm really asking!)

Good thing about weights is that there are some big guys in prison. And at some point that guy who did God knows what with that girl from ND is going to be put with them. Hopefully he will be ripped in half.

My 2 cents.

 

[scarkarn]

I would say thay should not be able to compete in a powerlifting competition. But hell let them lift if they want to! I know it would drive me crazy not to be able to lift.

 

[ripper2]

i say give 'em a soccer ball and no weights. that way they won't get strong enough to cause any problems, they wont' get the satisfaction of really improving their bodies, and oon top of that since soccer isnt' a real sport they have to face not only the punishment for the crime that landed them in the pen, but the humiliation of getting their "recreation" from kicking around a leather ball like a bunch of cheesedicks.

 

[Swolenpecs]

Hell no...they are in prison for punishment....

 

[theoak01]

I am for it,they need something to do and look forward to, I dont for one second believe this makes it dangerous for the guards,they just need to be trained that much better not the pathetic way they are currently.

as for leaving to compete No fucking way, we pay to rehabilitate them but shouldnt have to pay for them to be bused everywhere to do leiusure activities

 

[bobbie8]

You guys wonder why the prisons are over populated look at the federal penalties they are rediculious I did something stupid when i was 19 a friend set me up now 2 years later i have great job going to school and life couldn't be better now they want to send me to prison for minimium of 5 years for selling drugs. I understand without a dought what i did was wrong is prison going to help me any. NO no priors nothing only going to make me twice as worse off. Just my opinion they are really fucked up on their penalties. I better get to lift weights that will give me hope and keep my mind busy.

 

[INNOCENT]

i wouldn't let them do it b/c they dont deserve the rite to have all the luxeries while in jail...especially life in prison and getting still all the benefits

 

[swb1126]

They should be made to read...and then read some more. Why let some cocky f*cks workout and get even cockier? Or better yet, send them over to Iraq to fight, and that way we can save some innocent soldiers lives.

Peace be on to you brothers

 

[Mythicalbeing]

I'd hope if I was behind bars that I'd have the chance to lift.

 

[tiger88]

I'd hope if I was behind bars that I'd have the chance to lift.

it is what i ;look forward to as a free man, and it be like the best of th best in prison


on that same show on A&E there WAS THis black dude doing behind the neck pull ups and his lats were fucking awsome

 

[jubei]

When you go to prison the punishment is supposed to be loss of freedom, and not having people rot in their cell.

 

[boscoe wilson]

"Maybe it could be used as a privilege or something like that."

Have to agree. Make it like a trustee level. You know those guys get to take out the trash and bake cookies for good behavior. Let them work out as a reward for not starting shit with the other inmates.

 

[BioAS]

let em lift...but...

yeah let em lift...but give them DBs only up to 20s and give a some BS total body gadget you see on TV lol...that way they dont get big and strong...lol jk...i agree that they need something to look forward too...strong body...strong mind...I think that prisoners need more rehab...though I question if it wuold do any good...I think if money was present alot of schooling, exercise, and counceling would be great...that way they would come out knowing something and feeling proud of themselves...i personally think people who have multiple convinctions (murders that is and rapist) should just be shot...I seriously doubt they can reabiliated...of course I am not an expert...and that may be a harsh and ignorant judgement...I am just sick of paying tax money to support these people...now people who have made one mistake or a couple of small mistakes then no they need to be given a chance...but some people you cant change...and by god I dont wont them reproducing spreading there poor genetic on to others...they say that there is a link to criminals and their genetics...i agree with this...anywasy my two cents...maybe useful may be useless buts its my two cents.

 

[mlong23]

To lift - Yes
To compete - No

 

[solidspine]

Unfortunately I spent a week in LA county jail this September, my case is still pending. There were no weights or exercise equipment at all in LA County.
My cellmate was a southsider doing two years at Chino, the dude was in great shape and all natural.

Anyway he told me that in California the state prisons have removed all weights and bodybuilding equipment-----------------------------because too many inmates are getting huge.

 

[Juice Authority]

I got in the best shape of my life when I was in the hole for a month. Push-ups, dips, sit-ups, all day long. I got up to 1000 push-ups a day. I was cut to ribbons. The strange thing is I actually got used to being in the hole and started to enjoy it. I would read, write letters, jack off, exercise, etc. I had nice routine going and time flew by.

 

[alanchiras]

An interesting fact in Massachusetts. We don't have the death penalty in this state. It used to be that life in prison with no chance of parole for heavy offenses usually meant that an inmate would spend on average 8 (eight) years before getting out on parole. Now that we have a 'Truth in Sentencing' law on the books, the same criminals spend an average of 16 years in prison before parole. (Source- www.thebostonchannel.com) So in some states, these guys ARE going to get out someday. Look, there is a way to let these guys burn off steam without the privilege of working out with free-weights - let them do aerobic workouts. Stair-masters, rowing machines, stationary bikes, etc. If their hearts get stronger, maybe their though processes will get stronger too. Thanks!

 

[DocHoliday]

I think they should be allowed to lift and take care of their body, but not compete outside of the prison.

 

[THEEGAME2544]

i say give 'em a soccer ball and no weights. that way they won't get strong enough to cause any problems, they wont' get the satisfaction of really improving their bodies, and oon top of that since soccer isnt' a real sport they have to face not only the punishment for the crime that landed them in the pen, but the humiliation of getting their "recreation" from kicking around a leather ball like a bunch of cheesedicks.

LOL!!!! That was damn good!


On a serious note though regarding the subject, it should be based on the seriousness of the crime. A lot of our bros are involved in "The Game" that live in countries like the U.S. that have laws making AAS a felony. I know if I were one of those guys, and did get caught and had to do some time, I would want to be able to work out in prison. (Cause we all know that AAS isn't really a "REAL" crime). But for people like child molestors and rapists, those guys should have none of those privelages at all!!! You've got to weigh it on the crime itself. Should being busted for AAS be the same in terms of lack of privelages as raping? or serial killing? Let me answer....NO!

 

[javolic]

i was wondering if prisioners can use steroids in jail???? those guys are HUGE !!!

 

[02gixxersix]

I agree with whoever said we should send long term prison inmates to the front like in times of war. I seems like it would be the best way for them to repay their debt to society. However I would be willing to bet that they don't take direction very well, and would probably just get over there and take off.

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

i was wondering if prisioners can use steroids in jail???? those guys are HUGE !!!

well, lets see...they use crack, pot and heroin in jail...and kill each other...I'm betting they have access to the juice if they wanted it.

 

[JuicePimp]

Send the prisoners to the front lines? Yeah, lets give them guns and put them out there with our well trained troops. This is demeaning to our servicemen and women out there. It takes more than a bad attitude and a gun to be a effective combatant. Thats why we have training for our military.

 

[Biter]

Great topic. As for competing, hell no.

On one hand, if I were going, I'd definitely want to have the weights there. I would see it as a priviledge for sure. A huge problem is that there are some people in there that DO NOT need to be lifting.

It seems to kinda float along the punishment v. rehabilitation argument.

Some good "For" reasons -

Self defense - Based on image, you may not get fucked with as much. No one wants to mess with a bigger guy. Survival could depend on it. An assumption, based on my lack of experience.

Endorphin release - keep them happier. Happier means less problems. Another assumption (see above).

Keeping them active - activity builds upon itself. Someone who is busy is likely to stay busy. Plus they have a goal and a focus, no matter how mundane (we all want to make X amount of money, improve ourselves, get the hot girl, etc.. They could focus on the getting to the weight, strength and shape they want).

Against:

They do have access to pretty much anything. Juice would be pretty easy to obtain. You have the same guy who wants to survive from above against the sociopath who is looking at the immediate, wants to gain any advantage, and has no regard for other people. He gets out and is a bigger, stronger, more aggressive, testosterone filled sociopath. Could be a far larger problem to society.

Many view prison as a punishment and this extends into that realm. Why should they be given this chance to better themselves? They did fuck up (not saying I agree, just the argument for argument's sake.)

The violence in prisons is high enough. Why let them do something in which their test gets raised higher (naturally or unnaturally), making them (possibly) more aggressive?

All in all, I'm kinda on the fence about all of this. I can see both pros and cons.

A few things are certain - there are some criminals who do not deserve access to lifting. It should be decided solely on the individual, their behavior before the crime and upon entering. Having the lifting rights taken away can be a good thing.

Conversely, as for punishment, I think exercise could be used as a great way to do this for the younger, more capable prisoners.

When I was in military school (back in the old days, not now), I was punished for getting into it with an officer when I was a new cadet. My punishment? That fucker took me out every night for a week and forced me to do wind sprints until I puked, and then I did some more. I collapsed in my bed afterwards, dreading the next night. I got in shape, but the price was pretty steep.

Trying this with prisoners may not be such a bad idea.

The Good: They'll think twice before getting run into the ground, especially if they are in a labor camp.

They'll get in shape, just like they want to. Focus on their cardio, rather than their testosterone.

They would have to deal with possible consequences of being knocked out asleep.

Humility factor - the guy is getting run into the ground like some high schooler after football practice.

The Bad:
Injuries can and will happen.

Can't be used for everyone because mitigating factors (age, previous injuries, etc.)

Having to deal with being out cold asleep from exhaustion (see above, also a bad - leave the guy defenseless)



That's just an idea. Anyone on here who has spent time could probable tell me whether or not this is a good or bad idea. My .02.

Biter

 

[tiger88]

I got in the best shape of my life when I was in the hole for a month. Push-ups, dips, sit-ups, all day long. I got up to 1000 push-ups a day. I was cut to ribbons. The strange thing is I actually got used to being in the hole and started to enjoy it. I would read, write letters, jack off, exercise, etc. I had nice routine going and time flew by.

thats too good