Prime example of why abortion is bullshit!

[chesty]

Talk about a fucking double standard! The fucking bitch who got herself knocked up and admitted punching herself and doing everything she could to have a miscarriage asked her boyfriend to help her. He succeeded. During his testimoney and her statements to police she admitted punching herself while he was kicking her in the stomach. Impossibe to tell who caused the miscarriage.

So, the guy gets convicted of murder and automatic life in prison, the FUCKING BITCH GETS NOTHING CAUSE IT WAS HER RIGHT TO MURDER HER CHILDREN (OOOOPS, I MEAN ABORT THEIR LIFE)

AND, SHE COULD HAVE PAID A FUCKING DOCTOR WHO TOOK THE HYPOCRATIC OATH TO DO NO HARM TO MURDER (OOOPS, I MEAN ABORT) HER CHILDREN. HE WOULD GET LOADS OF CASH AND GET TO DO IT AGAIN WITHIN THE HOUR TO ANOTHER DUMBASS.

DOES ANYONE HERE SEE HOW FUCKED UP THE LAW IS. BITCH CAN MURDER AND IT IS OKAY. DOCTOR CAN BE PAID TO ASSASINATE A HELPLESS HUMAN BEING AND IT IS OKAY. THE FATHER OF THE CHILDREN WHO HELPS THE MOTHER OF THE CHILDREN MURDER THEIR KIDS GETS LIFE IN PRISON.

AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT HEARING THE ARGUMENT: I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR! IT IS MY RIGHT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. DON'T GET YOUR ASS KNOCKED UP.

 

[Cutiebaby]

Talk about a fucking double standard! The fucking bitch who got herself knocked up and admitted punching herself and doing everything she could to have a miscarriage asked her boyfriend to help her. He succeeded. During his testimoney and her statements to police she admitted punching herself while he was kicking her in the stomach. Impossibe to tell who caused the miscarriage.

So, the guy gets convicted of murder and automatic life in prison, the FUCKING BITCH GETS NOTHING CAUSE IT WAS HER RIGHT TO MURDER HER CHILDREN (OOOOPS, I MEAN ABORT THEIR LIFE)

AND, SHE COULD HAVE PAID A FUCKING DOCTOR WHO TOOK THE HYPOCRATIC OATH TO DO NO HARM TO MURDER (OOOPS, I MEAN ABORT) HER CHILDREN. HE WOULD GET LOADS OF CASH AND GET TO DO IT AGAIN WITHIN THE HOUR TO ANOTHER DUMBASS.

DOES ANYONE HERE SEE HOW FUCKED UP THE LAW IS. BITCH CAN MURDER AND IT IS OKAY. DOCTOR CAN BE PAID TO ASSASINATE A HELPLESS HUMAN BEING AND IT IS OKAY. THE FATHER OF THE CHILDREN WHO HELPS THE MOTHER OF THE CHILDREN MURDER THEIR KIDS GETS LIFE IN PRISON.

AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT HEARING THE ARGUMENT: I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR! IT IS MY RIGHT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. DON'T GET YOUR ASS KNOCKED UP.

i will not argue i feel the same way as you....i am woman here me roar but i am not into the whole abortion thing...to me that is murdering a innocent child......a lot of people believe it is right but it is not....the best way to not have children that you dont want or cannot take care of is 1.abstain from sex and 2..protection......
there are plenty of people out there who cannot have children who would give any thing to have a child yet dont meet the adoption rules such as a single lady cannot adopt and blaa blaa blaa...or a married couple who take make shit loads of money yet these idiots who get prenant which prenancy to me is a gift from god kill there children.....i am just as pissy about this as you......

 

[gjohnson5]

DOES ANYONE HERE SEE HOW FUCKED UP THE LAW IS. BITCH CAN MURDER AND IT IS OKAY. DOCTOR CAN BE PAID TO ASSASINATE A HELPLESS HUMAN BEING AND IT IS OKAY. THE FATHER OF THE CHILDREN WHO HELPS THE MOTHER OF THE CHILDREN MURDER THEIR KIDS GETS LIFE IN PRISON.

AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT HEARING THE ARGUMENT: I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR! IT IS MY RIGHT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. DON'T GET YOUR ASS KNOCKED UP.

Abortion is not the issue here. The issue is the definition of "murder" he should have let he do it to herself so he could keep his nose clean. It's her right to choose... He isn't an abortion doctor so....

 

[chesty]

Here is the Fox article

LUFKIN, Texas — A 19-year-old accused of causing his teenage girlfriend to miscarry two fetuses by stepping on her stomach was convicted Monday of two counts of murder.

Gerardo Flores (search) received an automatic life sentence because prosecutors did not seek the death penalty, which was available under the state's 2003 fetus protection law (search).

Erica Basoria, 17, acknowledged asking Flores to help end her pregnancy; she could not be prosecuted because of her legal right to abortion.

The defense contended that Basoria punched herself while Flores was stepping on her, making it impossible to tell who caused the miscarriage.

Basoria told authorities that, after about four months of pregnancy, she regretted not getting an abortion and started jogging and hitting herself to induce a miscarriage. When her efforts failed, she said she asked her boyfriend to help.

Flores did not testify, but earlier told police that he stepped on Basoria's stomach several times during the week before she miscarried.

Prosecutor Art Bauereiss said most of Basoria's family was pleased with the jury's decision. But Basoria, who sobbed as she left the Angelina County Courthouse, had stood by Flores.


"It's just tragedy all around," said Flores' attorney, Ryan Deaton.

Texas law defines an embryo or fetus as an "individual" and allows criminal prosecution or civil action for a preventable injury or death of a fetus. The law exempts health care providers who perform a legal medical procedure, such as an abortion.

 

[chesty]

Abortion is not the issue here. The issue is the definition of "murder" he should have let he do it to herself so he could keep his nose clean. It's her right to choose... He isn't an abortion doctor so....

That is the point, if it is legal to kill an unborn child it should be legal for anyone. If not then no one should have the right, not even the female.

 

[bluepeter]

Nothing to do with abortion being 'bullshit'. Everything to do with having contradictory laws that allow farces like this to happen.

 

[tinytank]

that sucks... ok i dont think he should have had life, but i feel she should have had the same sentence as he did . fucking bitch for gettingaway with, it. she was also most likely the one who came up with the idea to kill it cause she couldnt cope.

 

[hooch]

Are you "pro-life"?? I can't tell because you bitch about abortion but then you have "I am required to kill so I kill. That is enough"

 

[gjohnson5]

Nothing to do with abortion being 'bullshit'. Everything to do with having contradictory laws that allow farces like this to happen.

How is it contradictory???

The guy is not an abortion doctor. He should have stayed out of it. let her injure herself and he's has no problems. The laws exempt doctors from the "murder" cluase by pro abortion rulings. Nothing contradictory about it. You kick a fetus , you're getting murder. If you're a licensed abortion doctor , it's legal. Where is anything contradictory?

 

[chesty]

Pro life? I am anti abortion. Better yet against the murder of a human being that is unable to defend themselves just because they are not born yet.

As for my signature, it is in reference to killing in a combat situation, where the other person has the ability to defend themselves. Big difference

 

[Cutiebaby]

How is it contradictory???

The guy is not an abortion doctor. He should have stayed out of it. let her injure herself and he's has no problems. The laws exempt doctors from the "murder" cluase by pro abortion rulings. Nothing contradictory about it. You kick a fetus , you're getting murder. If you're a licensed abortion doctor , it's legal. Where is anything contradictory?

even if he did any thing else to the fetus he would get murder...the mother asked him to do it and walks away free....if he cant murder a fetus why can she??? why can a damn doctor be paid to kill????? that simple all around the innocent life form is being killed

 

[gjohnson5]

Pro life? I am anti abortion. Better yet against the murder of a human being that is unable to defend themselves just because they are not born yet.

As for my signature, it is in reference to killing in a combat situation, where the other person has the ability to defend themselves. Big difference

If you're a legal guardian , you ahve the right to make choices like that.
Michael Shiavo choose to pull the feeding tube and cremate the body of Terry Shindler. This was his legal rights fucked up or not...

Abortion has nothing to do with it. let's please remove abortion from this issue

 

[chesty]

How is it contradictory???

The guy is not an abortion doctor. He should have stayed out of it. let her injure herself and he's has no problems. The laws exempt doctors from the "murder" cluase by pro abortion rulings. Nothing contradictory about it. You kick a fetus , you're getting murder. If you're a licensed abortion doctor , it's legal. Where is anything contradictory?

It is contradictory in the fact that one can get paid to punch a hole in the head of the baby, and then suck out the baby's brains into a jar, then deliver the corpse.

In another method the butcher (doctor) inserts a razor blade device into the womb and slices up the baby while the baby is alive! Now you tell me is this normal acceptable behavior or is this paying a derranged individual to carry out phsycopathic behavior. Abortion doctors are nothing more than highly paid serial killers!

 

[bluepeter]

How is it contradictory???

The guy is not an abortion doctor. He should have stayed out of it. let her injure herself and he's has no problems. The laws exempt doctors from the "murder" cluase by pro abortion rulings. Nothing contradictory about it. You kick a fetus , you're getting murder. If you're a licensed abortion doctor , it's legal. Where is anything contradictory?

It's contradictory because the girl is not being prosecuted because she is protected by her right to have an abortion. Is she a licensed practitioner?

 

[chesty]

I will not remove abortion from the issue. It is the prime point of the issue. Schiavo did not have his wife murdered before she was born. She was declared brain dead long before the "feeding" tube was removed. If an unborn child had no brain activity and was declared "dead" due to this fact that would be a different story for causing the delivery of the unborn child early.

In this case abortion refers to the wanton murder for pay of an unborn child. These "doctors" are nothing more than Nazis who most likely worship the likes of Dr Mengala (sp)

 

[Bikini Mod]

AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT HEARING THE ARGUMENT: I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR! IT IS MY RIGHT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. DON'T GET YOUR ASS KNOCKED UP.

Ummmm the last time I checked a woman was incapable of "getting her ass knocked up."


This is my only comment.

 

[-SD-]

Ummmm the last time I checked a woman was incapable of "getting her ass knocked up."


This is my only comment.

Your threads blow up in a shitstorm quite easily and regularly. Dont give this thread anymore help.

 

[Guvna]

could you post the link?

 

[Dial_tone]

That is the point, if it is legal to kill an unborn child it should be legal for anyone. If not then no one should have the right, not even the female.

so then if it's legal to kill someone in self defense it should be legal all the time too?

 

[Bikini Mod]

Your threads blow up in a shitstorm quite easily and regularly. Dont give this thread anymore help.

Conflict gives birth to new ideas.

Sorry to say though, this time my post did nothing to add controversy.

I have no comment on any topic on this thread whether it be abortion, paternal rights, or murder.

I thought I made it clear as to what my feelings were.

 

[CFZB]

IT WAS HER RIGHT TO MURDER HER CHILDREN (OOOOPS, I MEAN ABORT THEIR LIFE)

is this what they said or are you leading the witness?

 

[The Red Dragon]

Both of em should receive the same fate

 

[Ulcasterdropout]

all 4 of them should be shot

 

[CFZB]

all 4 of them should be shot

and the dog.always shoot the dog.

 

[gonelifting]

"Flores did not testify, but earlier told police that he stepped on Basoria's stomach several times during the week before she miscarried."

^^^^ So that says he did'nt do it. It's either attempted murder or he gets off. It's one or the other, not he did it a week earlier and then she keeps trying and succeeds so HE goes to jail because that's all they have left to prosecute.

He needs better lawyers. Can't they get him on practicing without a license?

I have no opinion on abortion either way. I do have an opinion on the world... It's FUCKED UP!

 

[The Wenis]

He needs better lawyers. Can't they get him on practicing without a license?

best post on the whole thread

 

[Extra_Strong]

well this is a touchy subject.. for you pro-life conservatives..

But this is a sad story.. this guy has to go to jail for the rest of his life.. for helping a girl out.. with her permission.. fucked up.

a fetus is just a parasite in the human body. it will do anything to stay alive even take the life of the host ... U can look at this shit to many ways.. It is the girls body she should be able to do with it as she wishes.. and if she wants help. There should be no objection.
If an adult human.. was to get some sickness that to survive it had to attach itself to another adult human to survive.. How would you look at it then? It is just a sad story if you ask me..

 

[gjohnson5]

I will not remove abortion from the issue. It is the prime point of the issue. Schiavo did not have his wife murdered before she was born. She was declared brain dead long before the "feeding" tube was removed. If an unborn child had no brain activity and was declared "dead" due to this fact that would be a different story for causing the delivery of the unborn child early.

In this case abortion refers to the wanton murder for pay of an unborn child. These "doctors" are nothing more than Nazis who most likely worship the likes of Dr Mengala (sp)

This is really silly...

Before birth or after birth makes no difference. Legal guardian can make that call before or after birth. This was the point about the Schiavo case. Therefore abortion has NOTHING to do with this and it should be let go

The doctors are not the problem. Hell you sound like one of those extremists who would shoot one of the doctors even though they are doing thier jobs that they have legal rights to do

 

[chesty]

A woman is quite capable of getting her ass knocked up. Happens all the time. Don't have sex or if you do, make damned sure you won't get fertilized.

 

[chesty]

so then if it's legal to kill someone in self defense it should be legal all the time too?

Self defense is different. The attacker is choosing to attempt to harm another individual. A conscious decision on the attackers part. A decision that he/she knows could get them killed. They had a choice and made the choice. An unborn child does not get that opportunity.

 

[Bikini Mod]

A woman is quite capable of getting her ass knocked up. Happens all the time. Don't have sex or if you do, make damned sure you won't get fertilized.

This is ridiculous statement.

Why doesnt the man make damned sure that he is shooting blanks? Then he doesnt have to worry about getting "some woman's ass knocked up" thus negating the subsequent need to help her to abort the fetus.

Better yet, why doesnt he just keep his dick in his pants?

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[chesty]

No, not an extremist. The laws are skewed to favor a woman and the people who went to school to save life only to get paid to end it. The unborn fetus is not a parasite. It is a human being like you and me.

I don't have to shoot any doctors. History will look back on the US and the rest of the world that is pro abortion and it will not be kind to us. In one instance we condemed the concentration camps of world war two and the hideous experiment carried out there along with the systematic extermination of an entire race. We are no different now when it comes to abortion.

And why is it only the womans right to choose? Why does the father not have a choice? Why should he not be able to have a say in the matter. If he wants the child she should have to carry the baby to term so that the father may have and raise the child.

What it comes down to is the woman (most of the time not for health reasons) doesn't want to ruin her figure/her birth canal (she likes it tight)/interfere with her career, etc. I have no sympathy for a woman/man that considers a human life a disposable commodity when it is "inconvenient" to them.

 

[Bikini Mod]

What it comes down to is the woman (most of the time not for health reasons) doesn't want to ruin her figure/her birth canal (she likes it tight)/interfere with her career, etc.

You really cant be that ignorant.

How did you come with this data? You stand on the corner surveying passers by?

 

[Bikini Mod]

And why is it only the womans right to choose? Why does the father not have a choice? Why should he not be able to have a say in the matter. If he wants the child she should have to carry the baby to term so that the father may have and raise the child.

These were rhetorical questions.... right?

I repeat - surely you cant be THAT ignorant.

 

[Mammoth2500]

Yea that whole situation is gay for the guy. I think now that its in the media when they do an appeal, the verdict may change to attempted murder.

 

[EnderJE]

What's the problem? She wanted an abortion. Presto. An abortion. Look around. Lord knows that there should be more of them.

 

[Guvna]

could you post the link?

???

 

[chesty]

not rhetorical questions. Why should the man be the one to make sure the woman doesn't get pregnant? Seems like a statement that removes the responsibility from the woman. She has as much responsiblity if not more than the man that she chooses to screw. Why should he be shooting blanks? Why doesn't the woman go get herself fixed. Walla, problem solved. Or better yet, keep her legs crossed. Go by a B.O.B. if you can't.

Remember, it takes two to fuck and two to be responsible. Let's not pass this off as soley the mans responsibility.

You tell me the reasons to have an abortion, when it does not constitute a health problem for the woman (would cause death or something as bad)? I can understand if the woman was raped and she chose not to carry to term. Or if the baby was malformed such as what happens with spina bifida.

1. Are they going to be a bad mommy? Oh well. This is on the job training.
2. Are they poor? Give the kid up for adoption and get paid for it.
3. Will it interefer with her party life? Get a life
4. Will it interfere with her professional life? Guess they shouldn't have fucked then.
5. Will it ruin or at least affect her physical appearance to some degree? See number 4.
6. Is she afraid sex won't be as good (since things get stretched out?) Suck it up.
7. Is she afraid her parents won't accept (if she is under 18)? Understand fear, parents are fucked up if they won't accept.
8. Is she afraid in general? Deal with it. There are a lot worse things out there.
9. Was her timing off? See number 4.

Most of the reasons I have heard from women who have had abortions were for selfish reasons or by threats from parents. Neither of which I find acceptable.

 

[Bikini Mod]

The person in question bitching about a woman getting pregnant is a man.

Hence my question - if men are so upset about women becoming pregnant then perhaps they oughtta keep their dicks in their pants. Problem solved.

It's called personal responsibility.

Unless I am forcibly raped, I can not bitch about how some "asshole GOT ME pregnant".






....And even then, this would be HIS PROBLEM.... exactly HOW?

 

[bluepeter]

What it comes down to is the woman (most of the time not for health reasons) doesn't want to ruin her figure/her birth canal (she likes it tight)/interfere with her career, etc. I have no sympathy for a woman/man that considers a human life a disposable commodity when it is "inconvenient" to them.

lmao

Post up some statistics supporting that ridiculous statement.

The example you started this thread with has absolutely nothing to do with abortion and everything to do with contradictory laws causing a travesty of justice. If you wanted to create a thread to spew ignorant views on abortion, why didn't you just do that?

 

[bluepeter]

not rhetorical questions. Why should the man be the one to make sure the woman doesn't get pregnant? Seems like a statement that removes the responsibility from the woman. She has as much responsiblity if not more than the man that she chooses to screw. Why should he be shooting blanks? Why doesn't the woman go get herself fixed. Walla, problem solved. Or better yet, keep her legs crossed. Go by a B.O.B. if you can't.

and that lead nicely into your next statement..............

Remember, it takes two to fuck and two to be responsible. Let's not pass this off as soley the mans responsibility.

Yet you are trying to pass it off as solely the womans. The man shouldn't have to shoot blanks but a woman should get herself fixed. Or she should keep her legs crossed.

Then you say it takes two to fuck. ??????? It is a dual responsibility. Not the mans and not the womans.

You tell me the reasons to have an abortion, when it does not constitute a health problem for the woman (would cause death or something as bad)? I can understand if the woman was raped and she chose not to carry to term. Or if the baby was malformed such as what happens with spina bifida.

1. Are they going to be a bad mommy? Oh well. This is on the job training.
2. Are they poor? Give the kid up for adoption and get paid for it.
3. Will it interefer with her party life? Get a life
4. Will it interfere with her professional life? Guess they shouldn't have fucked then.
5. Will it ruin or at least affect her physical appearance to some degree? See number 4.
6. Is she afraid sex won't be as good (since things get stretched out?) Suck it up.
7. Is she afraid her parents won't accept (if she is under 18)? Understand fear, parents are fucked up if they won't accept.
8. Is she afraid in general? Deal with it. There are a lot worse things out there.
9. Was her timing off? See number 4.

Most of the reasons I have heard from women who have had abortions were for selfish reasons or by threats from parents. Neither of which I find acceptable.

Well guess what? They don't have to have your permission so who cares whether there reasons are acceptable to you. Leaving that aside, your list is nothing short of ludicrous. Interfere with her party life? Afraid of damaging her figure? Afraid sex won't be as good? Are you for real? I find these statements offensive as a male, I can only imagine what females think of your diatribe on this thread.

 

[chesty]

???

I posted the article. Like the third post on this thread.

 

[chesty]

lmao

Post up some statistics supporting that ridiculous statement.

The example you started this thread with has absolutely nothing to do with abortion and everything to do with contradictory laws causing a travesty of justice. If you wanted to create a thread to spew ignorant views on abortion, why didn't you just do that?

Yes, I know that. The flow of the thread went anti abortion. So, I go with the flow.

I did put up some examples. My personal experience with several women friend who told me why they had their abortions. One was due to the parents threatening their daughter, and the other was because she didn't want another child.

And of all my women friends that have had one, this is the recurring theme of excuses.

 

[bluepeter]

Yes, I know that. The flow of the thread went anti abortion. So, I go with the flow.

I did put up some examples. My personal experience with several women friend who told me why they had their abortions. One was due to the parents threatening their daughter, and the other was because she didn't want another child.

And of all my women friends that have had one, this is the recurring theme of excuses.

I won't deny that their are idiots like this out there but let's be honest. The vast majority of women do not get abortions because they are afraid they will lose their shape or their sex life will suffer.

 

[chesty]

The person in question bitching about a woman getting pregnant is a man.

Hence my question - if men are so upset about women becoming pregnant then perhaps they oughtta keep their dicks in their pants. Problem solved.

It's called personal responsibility.

Unless I am forcibly raped, I can not bitch about how some "asshole GOT ME pregnant".
....And even then, this would be HIS PROBLEM.... exactly HOW?

I am not bitching about a woman becoming pregnant, because I would choose to keep the child and raise it on my own with out if need be. I am bitching about how the argument always gets turned around to it being mans fault. "he should keep his dick in his pants" "he should be fixed (firing blanks)" "he should ensure she can't get pregnant" Why is it his responsiblity? Shouldn't the burden of protection be upon the woman?.

 

[chesty]

The main argument I have is that abortion laws are bullshit and in this case it is readily apparent.

either correct the laws so that killing an unborn child is murder and illegal for all or make it legal for all to kill. Even a criminal attacking a woman.

 

[saint808]

well after i was born i was pro-choice. While in the womb i was actually pro-life.

 

[bluepeter]

The main argument I have is that abortion laws are bullshit and in this case it is readily apparent.

either correct the laws so that killing an unborn child is murder and illegal for all or make it legal for all to kill. Even a criminal attacking a woman.

I agree at least that the law is silly. How can the girl be protected by the right to have an abortion but the guy is prosecuted under some fetal protection law? What the law should be is another topic altogether.

 

[chesty]

and that lead nicely into your next statement..............



Yet you are trying to pass it off as solely the womans. The man shouldn't have to shoot blanks but a woman should get herself fixed. Or she should keep her legs crossed.

Then you say it takes two to fuck. ??????? It is a dual responsibility. Not the mans and not the womans.



Well guess what? They don't have to have your permission so who cares whether there reasons are acceptable to you. Leaving that aside, your list is nothing short of ludicrous. Interfere with her party life? Afraid of damaging her figure? Afraid sex won't be as good? Are you for real? I find these statements offensive as a male, I can only imagine what females think of your diatribe on this thread.

My entire post there is rhetorical. But for the list, these are actual excuses I have personally heard from women who have had or are having an abortion. So don't lecture me about ridiculous or ludicrous. I also really don't care what some internet gal thinks of me. If you are embarrased to be a male and against abortion great, more power to you.

I for one am not embarrassed.

As for permission, she wanted to have sex, as much as the guy did which means both had to have permission. Therefore, both should have a say so in the entire matter.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I am not bitching about a woman becoming pregnant, because I would choose to keep the child and raise it on my own with out if need be. I am bitching about how the argument always gets turned around to it being mans fault. "he should keep his dick in his pants" "he should be fixed (firing blanks)" "he should ensure she can't get pregnant" Why is it his responsiblity? Shouldn't the burden of protection be upon the woman?.

See you are assuming that just because she becomes pregnant with your child (that BOTH of you made) she would want to bring it into this world.

Sorry, but because the child grows in her body - YOU dont get that option. The same way that a woman does not get the option of saying, "Ummm sorry bitch, but I dont know you." and skate leaving her holding the back. You got issue with that - TAKE IT UP WITH GOD.

Your entire arguement is silly.

If a woman is wise she will most certainly make every effort to ensure that she does not become pregnant as it will be her burden alone, however, the only way to make sure of that is 100% abstinence.

If a man does not want to bear the burden of becoming a father or being faced with the issue of having a child that he sired aborted - guess what? He will most certainly do the same as the woman - keep his dick in his pants.

 

[chesty]

I completely disagree with the argument that because it is incubating inside the woman the man has no say so in the matter. it is as much his child as it is hers and therefore he should be afforded the same say in the matter unless he wants to sign away his right to say so. Again, the argument that it is her body is old and used up.

 

[chesty]

Here is an article that I looked up. As i have stated with some rhetorical commenting it appears that 45-50% of abortions are used as birth control due to irresponsibility on the part of both partners. Notice too, this research paper was written by a female.

Biology 103
2003 Third Paper
On Serendip


ABORTION: WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?
Alice Goldsberry

Possibly one of the most controversial court cases in our country's history was settled in January 1973. In a decision known as Roe vs. Wade, the Supreme Court legalized abortion in the United States (1). Now, according to the National Center for Health Statistics, abortion practices have become the most frequent surgical operation in the United States. But at what point is abortion just wrong? Only under certain circumstances should abortion practices be legal.

Many would argue that abortion is wrong because as soon as the baby is conceived, it becomes a living, breathing organism. Therefore, aborting the small organism is simply murder. However, when Roe vs. Wade was decided, organizations like Planned Parenthood publicly supported this ruling, arguing that during the first three months of pregnancy, the fetus is nothing more than a mass of tissue (1). In addition to Planned Parenthood, there are also many religious organizations in agreement with the legalization of abortion. These organizations include American Baptist Churches USA, the Episcopal Church, Presbyterian Church USA, the United Methodist Church, and the United Synagogue for Conservative Judaism (2). But under what circumstances should abortion practices be accepted?

As time passes, it seems as if more and more women are having abortions as a way of shunning responsibility. According to the AG Institution, fifty percent of women who have abortions use it as their sole means of birth control (3). This is one example of how abortion practice is being taken advantage of and used for the wrong reasons. In addition, approximately 45% of all abortions in the United States are done by women ages 19 and under. Why is this? Based on a survey of 1900 women in this country, the two most common reasons for abortion are: 1) the woman can not afford to keep the baby, and 2) the woman is not ready for the responsibility. These responses accounted for nearly 42% of all answers (3). However, these reasons are far from legitimate because these issues can be easily fixed. There are too many contraceptives and other forms of birth control to allow these excuses to be justifiable.

So what are acceptable reasons to abort an unborn baby? For one, a mother's health should never be in jeopardy. Another understandable reason to have an abortion is when there could be possible health problems for the unborn child. This excuse is legitimate because there is no way that a mother could be able to live a peaceful life knowing that her child is suffering, or being deprived of a normal lifestyle in any way. Sadly, these two reasons combined only accounted for six percent of the 1900 responses. One final justifiable reason for having an abortion, and perhaps the most important, is conceiving due to rape or incest, which according to this survey, only accounts for one percent of the women's opinion (3). Getting an abortion under this circumstance will always be justifiable because the situation is clearly out of the woman's hands. There is no woman in this world that will ever be able to tell her child that he or she was conceived not out of love, but as a result of rape.

Abortion procedures are not a bad thing; they are just too commonly used, and therefore promote irresponsibility. But is there really a way to reduce the number of abortion per year, without making it illegal; most likely not. Abortion was not legalized to be used as a sole form of birth control, so why do 50% of the women in the United States abuse it in this manner? Legalized abortion is a prime example of how people are given an inch and in turn, they take a yard.


References

1)Get the Facts, a website i found very interesting
2)Talking about Freedom of Choice: 10 Important Facts about Abortion, another interesting site
1)Who Does Abortion Affect?, yet another site

 

[mitchell1660]

That whole situation is just sad, only because it seems that women are forever getting away with committing crimes that, if it was a man, it would be a different story. That girl should go to prison also if that stupid guy has to, especially since they both participated in bringing on her miscarriage. As for the argument that a man has just as much say in what a woman does with her pregnancy (if they're not married), is ridiculous. I'm not a woman, but I'm sure if I was I would be damned if I'm going to let some boyfriend tell me he wants me to keep the baby I'm carrying if I don't want to. It's HER body. She has to go through the morning sickness, stretch marks, and the horrendous pain of childbirth. NOT ME. HER CHOICE.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I completely disagree with the argument that because it is incubating inside the woman the man has no say so in the matter. it is as much his child as it is hers and therefore he should be afforded the same say in the matter unless he wants to sign away his right to say so. Again, the argument that it is her body is old and used up.

LOL

Whether you agree or disagree is wholely irrelevant.

I told you already - take it up with God.

 

[Gambino]

Here is an article that I looked up. As i have stated with some rhetorical commenting it appears that 45-50% of abortions are used as birth control due to irresponsibility on the part of both partners. Notice too, this research paper was written by a female.

Biology 103
2003 Third Paper
On Serendip

lol dude that is freshman biology, proly not to solid of a reference


chesty vs beached whale is fun as hell to read, please continue

BW 3
Chesty 1

 

[squatpuke]

I guess my question to all this is why is the baby considered "alive" enough to be killed by the boyfriend...but "not alive" enough to be considered murder if aborted....

????????????????????/

 

[-SD-]

I guess my question to all this is why is the baby considered "alive" enough to be killed by the boyfriend...but "not alive" enough to be considered murder if aborted....

????????????????????/

And that, my friend, is the paradox our society has gotten itself into. Consistency in the law is what is necessary.

 

[chesty]

Yes it is the paradox.

I am not in a contest with bw. She can have all the points you want to give her. Again, notice how it is easy for the "other" side to just say things like what you believe is irrelevant or take it up with god?

Again, so it is her body, it is just not her baby. That baby belongs to two people. It took two to make the baby. If she didn't want to get pregnant she should not have had unprotected sex, should have made damn sure that she could not get pregnant as well as the guy making just as sure.

An unplanned pregnancy is not an OOPS!, nor a mistake! that you correct by committing murder (oops, I mean abortion. That is so much more antiseptic a saying, isn't it)

As for the paper, I wasn't interested in finding one written by someone who has 5 phds, etc.

Just because it is a freshman paper if that is the case, does not make it any less valid. It is exactly the same type of research a PH.D candidate would do, minus the 6 years of schooling. I was just posting up something to show that it is not just the way I think. And references were given along with the numbers quoted. Look 'em up.

 

[Cutiebaby]

are we still arguing about murder????? if a woman drowns her kid in a tub she goes to jail yet she can kill a child before it even speaks.....still confused???????? im not!

 

[chesty]

Some apparently are still confused. I'm not.

 

[Cutiebaby]

Some apparently are still confused. I'm not.

thank god!!!!

 

[Cutiebaby]

ok check this out at 16 i chose to have sex...well maybe earlier but any how i chose to have sex...i ended up pregnant.....i loved my baby from the moment that i found out....he is 7 years old and the light of my life......whether his father left me or not or whether it was a one night stand would not have mattered....(we are currently married) but any how i would never kill my child...it is selfishness thats what it is ppl are selfish and dont want to change their shitty lives because they ended up pregnant.....so they kill a child....the way i see it is dont have sex.........i knew the consequences when i did "the deed"...I could have not had sex then and waited and what ever...but it was my choice..pregnancy is not a mistake...these poor aborted babies didnt ask to be brought to this hell whole of a world....they deserve a chance......ppl dont under stand that this is a life we are talking about not a doll or an animal that you can put to sleep......from the time of conseption there is a life form inside you..it may look like a tad pole and be called a fetus but it is raised into a human....

 

[chesty]

I agree with you 100%. I am also impressed by your decision to do what is right. Not an easy thing to do at 16 when you haven't even lived much by that time.

You are right. It is a selfish act.

 

[Bikini Mod]

...these poor aborted babies didnt ask to be brought to this hell whole of a world.....

That is the whole point. They were NOT brought into the world.

You chose to raise your child. Your child was wanted whether conceived "on purpose" or "accidentally" is wholely irrelevant.

Right or wrong, there are those that do NOT want their children and choose not to bring them into this world.

Honestly, not trying to be a wisenheimer. But why does it bother you personally that while you made a choice that was right for you, others' have choices that are different. How does the choice of another affect you?

 

[Bikini Mod]

Some apparently are still confused. I'm not.

You are very confused. One moment you say that women have abortions to keep their pussies tight, but these same women should become mothers because YOU would want a child that YOU made? Why would you even lay down with a woman that is THAT DUMB, let alone seriously consider allowing half her genetic material to be passed on to YOUR offspring?

Darlin. I told you.

If YOU want a baby - have some women get herself pregnant *cough* I mean YOU get her pregnant - then YOU raise the baby.

If YOU dont want to be faced with such a delima - then keep YOUR dick in YOUR pants.

Who puts their dick in MY pussy shouldnt affect you.... unless of course YOU would want to keep a child of mine to raise it.

Do you see MY point here?

This is a ridiculous arguement.

If YOU dont believe in abortion...



THEN DONT HAVE ONE.
For the record - I have never had an abortion. Would I have one? Tough question. If I were to become pregnant at this stage in my life (people get pregnant every day while using birth control properly) I dare say I would seriously consider it for many reasons, none of which I feel the need to discuss with you.

If YOU have a problem with that. You are entitled.

As I said - unless it is YOUR baby. You have no say.

If YOU have a problem with that - TAKE IT UP WITH GOD.

 

[velvett]

You are very confused. One moment you say that women have abortions to keep their pussies tight, but these same women should become mothers because YOU would want a child that YOU made? Why would you even lay down with a woman that is THAT DUMB, let alone seriously consider allowing half her genetic material to be passed on to YOUR offspring?

Darlin. I told you.

If YOU want a baby - have some women get herself pregnant *cough* I mean YOU get her pregnant - then YOU raise the baby.

If YOU dont want to be faced with such a delima - then keep YOUR dick in YOUR pants.

Who puts their dick in MY pussy shouldnt affect you.... unless of course YOU would want to keep a child of mine to raise it.

Do you see MY point here?

This is a ridiculous arguement.

If YOU dont believe in abortion...



THEN DONT HAVE ONE.
For the record - I have never had an abortion. Would I have one? Tough question. If I were to become pregnant at this stage in my life (people get pregnant every day while using birth control properly) I dare say I would seriously consider it for many reasons, none of which I feel the need to discuss with you.

If YOU have a problem with that. You are entitled.

As I said - unless it is YOUR baby. You have no say.

If YOU have a problem with that - TAKE IT UP WITH GOD.

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE.

 

[nycgirl]

That is the whole point. They were NOT brought into the world.

You chose to raise your child. Your child was wanted whether conceived "on purpose" or "accidentally" is wholely irrelevant.

Right or wrong, there are those that do NOT want their children and choose not to bring them into this world.

Honestly, not trying to be a wisenheimer. But why does it bother you personally that while you made a choice that was right for you, others' have choices that are different. How does the choice of another affect you?

Well said.

Furthermore, people should take a good look in the mirror before they get on their moral soapbox.

 

[chesty]

I can look myself in the mirror and I like what I see. There is no problem with what I have said. I gave some of the reasons that women spout for not wanting a child.

Whether or not the child has started breathing air is irrelevant. Either the child has rights, just like we afford to the illegal aliens and other pukes of society or they do not.

Yes, I said she should carry it to full term. Give the child up for adoption etc. If she didn't want to take a chance on getting knocked up she shouldn't have uncrossed her legs.

I just love how women shout out about my body this my body that, but never consider the consequences of what they do. Like what if my boyfriend would like to have his child not be murdered by his mother. Or for that matter her husband. Abortion in all but the most extreme cases is just flat wrong and has been turned into birth control for the lazy and selfish.

Can you look at your self in the mirror and like who you are? How about if you were to have an abortion? Knowing that you paid someone to kill your child.?

Murder bothers my personally, the fact that our society has created a disposable human being called a fetus because it is a sterile term and the pro choice people don't want to take a chance that someone will wake up and realize they are talking about a human life, not a paraiste, nor a non human life and that irresponsibility and selfishness lead to murder for the sake of conveinence.

Anyway, arguing with pro lifers, especially women over the internet is like fishing without the fish being present.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Anyway, arguing with pro lifers, especially women over the internet is like fishing without the fish being present.

For such a bright man you make some incredibly unintelligent statements.

What relevance does whether or not you can look yourself in the mirror bear to the topic at hand?

YOU DONT HAVE A UTERUS. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO MAKE SUCH A DECISION.

Sort of like the way there are no fish present either.









Silly internet women.

Pfffffffffffffffffffft









I have said it several times - If you have a problem with the fact that a woman is the one that GOD DECIDED becomes pregnant - THEN DONT BE IN THE PRESENCE OF ONE THAT YOU GET KNOCKED *cough* GETS HERSELF KNOCKED UP.


KEEP YOUR MORAL DICK IN YOUR PANTS.






Wait a minute. Now I get the reason why you feel the need to degrade women on this thread.


It is because whether or not your dick comes out of your pants - it will be as all important THEN as it is NOW.






NOT AT ALL.










YOU DONT GET TO DECIDE.






Seriously dude - Women didn't get the chance to decide that they were the ones to carry the fetus. Sorry, but men dont get to decide that (who carries a fetus) either.







As I said -



TAKE IT UP WITH GOD.


Purely for our entertainment purposes. How many of these unwanted children have YOU PERSONALLY supported?.... from the moment they were a blastocyst to the time they were laid in the ground - with an entire lifetime (say 80 years) spent between those two events?

 

[Hangfire]

They dirty secret of abortion rights is this: the supreme court decided that a woman has right to PRIVACY in deciding the issue. That is NOT the same as saying a woman has the right to an abortion. The issue has been totally hijacked by the extremists that want us to belive in women's rights, abortion rights, reproductive rights, reproductive health, blah, blah. Except in extrememly rare instances, abortion is never never medically necessary to protect the life of the mother. Nevertheless, they have somehow managed to shape it into a "healthcare" issue.
I cannot understand why the radicals defend the "right" to abortion with such vigor. It is not he woman's body that is at question; it is the body of the unborn baby. The only way that this will ever be made right in this country is if right-thinking individuals DO make their opinion on abortion known and challenge it every cahnce they get. Don't worry about hurting the feelings of somebody who has had an abortion. They'll cry because they always do. But they're not crying because their feelings are hurt. They cry because they know what they did and, in spite of all of the support from the pro-abortion crowd, they know it was wrong.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Don't worry about hurting the feelings of somebody who has had an abortion. They'll cry because they always do. But they're not crying because their feelings are hurt. They cry because they know what they did and, in spite of all of the support from the pro-abortion crowd, they know it was wrong.

Spoken like a man.

You can say what you like - YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE FACED WITH SUCH A DECISION.

Thank you very much, but I dont NEED you to decide for me what will or will not make me cry.

 

[quadkilla31]

Abortion is murder that's all there is to it. No matter who does it.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Abortion is murder that's all there is to it. No matter who does it.

So then dont have one.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

 

[quadkilla31]

For such a bright man you make some incredibly unintelligent statements.

What relevance does whether or not you can look yourself in the mirror bear to the topic at hand?

YOU DONT HAVE A UTERUS. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO MAKE SUCH A DECISION.[









Silly internet women.

Pfffffffffffffffffffft









I have said it several times - If you have a problem with the fact that a woman is the one that GOD DECIDED becomes pregnant - THEN DONT BE IN THE PRESENCE OF ONE THAT YOU GET KNOCKED *cough* GETS HERSELF KNOCKED UP.


KEEP YOUR MORAL DICK IN YOUR PA




Wait a minute. Now I get the reason why you feel the need to degrade women on this thread.


It is because whether or not your dick comes out of your pants - it will be as all important THEN as it is NOW.






NOT AT ALL.










YOU DONT GET TO DECIDE.






Seriously dude - Women didn't get the chance to decide that they were the ones to carry the fetus. Sorry, but men dont get to decide that (who carries a fetus) either.







As I said -



TAKE IT UP WITH GOD.


Purely for our entertainment purposes. How many of these unwanted children have YOU PERSONALLY supported?.... from the moment they were a blastocyst to the time they were laid in the ground - with an entire lifetime (say 80 years) spent between those two events?

You're so full of shit. GOD did decide to let a woman carry a fetus but he didn't give the woman or man the right to destroy a life. You'll be the one taking it up with GOD.

 

[quadkilla31]

So then dont have one.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

I'm not woman dumbass. My ex and i had my daughter when we were young and we didn't take the easy way out. If you're not willing to except the outcome don't be spreading your legs.

 

[Bikini Mod]

You're so full of shit. GOD did decide to let a woman carry a fetus but he didn't give the woman or man the right to destroy a life. You'll be the one taking it up with GOD.

Oh no you did not.... You didn't just shake your fist at me and give me the whole "hell fire and brimstone" speech.... did you?

Since when do YOU care about MY immortal soul?

Seriously - How many OTHER PEOPLE'S unwanted children you have supported financially, emotionally and spiritually from the moment of their conception till they were laid in the ground?.... with an entire lifetime in between.

What YOU did with YOUR CHILD is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Since you are so vocal about protecting the rights of OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN I should think that you are prepared to back your mouth with your checkbook, time and love.



If you have a problem with abortion -



DONT HAVE ONE.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I'm not woman dumbass. My ex and i had my daughter when we were young and we didn't take the easy way out. If you're not willing to except the outcome don't be spreading your legs.

Nice - now you feel the need to namecall. Only makes you look even sillier than you already do.


I told you.

What YOU decide to do with YOUR CHILD is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

You felt it was wrong - good for you! You dont get a seat in heaven darlin... you only get the privilige of fatherhood.

 

[quadkilla31]

Abortion is wrong not matter what you say or the people that are for abortion. Those people are going to have to stand before GOD one day and answer for there wrong doings. Plain and simple. You make a good point about we are having to take care of other people's unwanted children, but that's not a reason to kill them before they are even born. That's not the unborn childs fault that there parents or parent is a sorry piece of shit.

 

[quadkilla31]

Nice - now you feel the need to namecall. Only makes you look even sillier than you already do.


I told you.

What YOU decide to do with YOUR CHILD is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

You felt it was wrong - good for you! You dont get a seat in heaven darlin... you only get the privilige of fatherhood.

Sorry didn't mean to resort to name calling. This subject really get's under my skin. I'm sorry. I do get a seat in heaven because i have accept JESUS CHRIST as my LORD AND SAVIOUR. I serve him everyday thank you very much.

 

[squatpuke]

I agree...with quad and chesty as a whole...

However, I can also understand BW's point....

When I was about 17, I knocked up my GF....the day we went to get aborted, she was bleeding clots, so I think the pregnancy was terminating anyways...but we went ahead and had the procedure done....Afterwards, I remember her drugged up and barely being able to walk and they more/less shoved her out the door, she practically feel into my arms (this would have been like 1983/'84)...I was too cowardly to see my error and was just glad/relieved that we didn't HAVE to get married or tell our folks...she felt the same way.

Hindsight, now being a blessed father of 3 (5, 2 and 1 month) (different woman)....I'm very embarassed and shamed for what I did and know I'll have to answer to God Almighty for my part. Have Mercy.

I haven't talked to that girl in over 20 years; I often wonder what her feelings are and pray that it didn't emotionally taint her...can't see how it wouldn't because of the effect it had on me....(hopefully she's stronger.)

There are NO winners with abortion.


Oh yeah....props to Angel Girl and Quad for being able to step-up.

 

[danielson]

If only this level of concern was applied to the people once they had made it out of the uterus in one piece. 'Murdering' a foetus is supposedly nazi like, but bombing the shit out of some goat herders, forcing OAP's to buy medications from more expensive pharacists, setting up tinpot dictators then sending the countries into debt+poverty and supplying psycho's with bio-warfare is A.O.K

I find it incredible that people equate abortion with murder when there are real medical and psychological reasons for it...what happens to all the kids with downs and rubella related defects?

 

[Bikini Mod]

Abortion is wrong not matter what you say or the people that are for abortion. Those people are going to have to stand before GOD one day and answer for there wrong doings. Plain and simple. You make a good point about we are having to take care of other people's unwanted children, but that's not a reason to kill them before they are even born. That's not the unborn childs fault that there parents or parent is a sorry piece of shit.

Religious rhetoric aside -

HOW MANY OF THESE CHILDREN HAVE YOU CLAIMED RESPONSIBILTY FOR?




What you do with your children is solely a matter of YOUR responsibility and does NOT earn you a seat in heaven but only allows you to experience the privilige of fatherhood. What you do with the rest of your time - YOU will reap the benefit of and is irrelevant to the topic at hand.



Squatpuke - sorry you had to go through that. But there are worse things in life.



And for all of you who think that I dont value the PRIVILIGE of motherhood - you havent clue one who you are talking to.

I fully realize THE PRIVILIGE I was granted with the ability to concieve, carry (took me over 13 months just to concieve my first) and subsequently mother as it has been challenged in ways that (I hope) none of you will ever realize. And for those of you who DO realize because you have gone through it - my heart goes out to you.

I am not talking about ME.... Just as YOU shouldnt be talking about YOU.





WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE HERE.





Not one person (male or female) has answered me the question - how is the fact that there are times that OTHER PEOPLE decide to NOT bring their children to this planet affect you? How many of THESE CHILDREN have YOU PERSONALLY taken responsibility for?

 

[Bikini Mod]

If only this level of concern was applied to the people once they had made it out of the uterus in one piece. 'Murdering' a foetus is supposedly nazi like, but bombing the shit out of some goat herders, forcing OAP's to buy medications from more expensive pharacists, setting up tinpot dictators then sending the countries into debt+poverty and supplying psycho's with bio-warfare is A.O.K

I find it incredible that people equate abortion with murder when there are real medical and psychological reasons for it...what happens to all the kids with downs and rubella related defects?

The Lord will provide.

 

[squatpuke]

Bee-dub....I see that you're a mother....congrats....doesn't get any better than that does it?

You don't have to answer (plead the fifth if you want), but have you ever had an abortion? If so, do you think your difficulties may have been caused by it?

(PM me if you want)....

sp

 

[squatpuke]

Not one person (male or female) has answered me the question - how is the fact that there are times that OTHER PEOPLE decide to NOT bring their children to this planet affect you? How many of THESE CHILDREN have YOU PERSONALLY taken responsibility for?

I can try to answer, although it will be considered religious crap...

I believe that God smiles down on every little child, fetus or newborn and delights in the fact that a new soul is about to partake in His wonderful plan....likewise, I think it it breaks His heart to see the needless killing of these children. If His heart breaks, so does mine....simply because of the relationship that I have with Him....

For the second part, I can positively say ZERO, as I have never adopted, however I know many that have...

 

[bluepeter]

If only this level of concern was applied to the people once they had made it out of the uterus in one piece. 'Murdering' a foetus is supposedly nazi like, but bombing the shit out of some goat herders, forcing OAP's to buy medications from more expensive pharacists, setting up tinpot dictators then sending the countries into debt+poverty and supplying psycho's with bio-warfare is A.O.K

I find it incredible that people equate abortion with murder when there are real medical and psychological reasons for it...what happens to all the kids with downs and rubella related defects?

Excellent post. The holier than thou attitudes of all the MEN on this thread make me laugh.

 

[squatpuke]

If only this level of concern was applied to the people once they had made it out of the uterus in one piece. 'Murdering' a foetus is supposedly nazi like, but bombing the shit out of some goat herders, forcing OAP's to buy medications from more expensive pharacists, setting up tinpot dictators then sending the countries into debt+poverty and supplying psycho's with bio-warfare is A.O.K

???? A.O.K.....says who?

I find it incredible that people equate abortion with murder when there are real medical and psychological reasons for it...what happens to all the kids with downs and rubella related defects?

Those are not "reasons" but rather excuses...those kids should be given the same opportunites...having a birth-defect doesn't warrant a death-sentence.

Excellent post. The holier than thou attitudes of all the MEN on this thread make me laugh.

.....Please explain "holier than thou" attitude? You sound like your feeling a little guilty....

 

[bluepeter]

???? A.O.K.....says who?

Those are not "reasons" but rather excuses...those kids should be given the same opportunites...having a birth-defect doesn't warrant a death-sentence.


.....Please explain "holier than thou" attitude? You sound like your feeling a little guilty....

Were you against the Iraq war? Did you vote for George Bush? Do you have any foster children in Africa?

Danielson makes a number of excellent points. We have all these MEN on this thread condemning abortion as murder that do not blink an eye at the 100000 civilian dead in Iraq. Or the tragedy that is Darfur.

A holier than thou attitude was my nice terminology for hypocrisy.

 

[squatpuke]

Were you against the Iraq war? Did you vote for George Bush? Do you have any foster children in Africa?

Danielson makes a number of excellent points. We have all these MEN on this thread condemning abortion as murder that do not blink an eye at the 100000 civilian dead in Iraq. Or the tragedy that is Darfur.

A holier than thou attitude was my nice terminology for hypocrisy.

Hey Peace bro....don't want to make enemies here.

I am against the war in Iraq....I did vote for Bush....no foster childern in Africa...

I think we're all hypocrites, regardless of race, religion, or creed.....

I respect both yours and Danielson's POV and hold no ill-will for anyone with different values than my own....however, I feel totally justified in condeming abortion (especially as part of my spiritual beliefs), just like you feel totally justifed likewise. I doubt (know) that we're not going to change each other's opinion, I only wanted to present my feelings on the matter.

I do sense that you're condemning me for condemning abortion....

 

[bluepeter]

Hey Peace bro....don't want to make enemies here.

I am against the war in Iraq....I did vote for Bush....no foster childern in Africa...

I think we're all hypocrites, regardless of race, religion, or creed.....

I respect both yours and Danielson's POV and hold no ill-will for anyone with different values than my own....however, I feel totally justified in condeming abortion (especially as part of my spiritual beliefs), just like you feel totally justifed likewise. I doubt (know) that we're not going to change each other's opinion, I only wanted to present my feelings on the matter.

I do sense that you're condemning me for condemning abortion....

Not condemning you, sorry for that impression. You have elucidated your argument much more intelligently than most on this thread. I have great respect for anyone who is against abortion, it is one subject I really struggle with.

 

[danielson]

???? A.O.K.....says who?

fair point, i didnt mean to tar everyone with the same brush but typically on this board those that are right wing in views had been able to tick most of the boxes on those points...I am always amazed that this kind of death is seen as acceptable and even celebrated yet a foetus which many can argue is not even sentient is fought over.

Those are not "reasons" but rather excuses...those kids should be given the same opportunites...having a birth-defect doesn't warrant a death-sentence.

Its all subjective to your opinion. A child with a rubella infection is likely to have visual and hearing impairment, cardiac problems and mental retardation. Downs will result in immunodeficiency (like HIV) mental retardation, cardiac problems. spinal bifida results in paralysis of functions below the lesion in the spine....

Its the reason maternal pregnancy testing exists, to check for these problems and try to treat and if not, offer abortion. Who will take care of a child if it is so handicapped? What if the parents simply cannot, due to medical problems of their own, work, social stigma or other reasons? Will this mean that the child is forced upon them, regardless of the consequences to the child?

What if its put into care, who fulfils the obligation to pay for its care? who will adopt any child like this or care for him/her? What if the mother ultimately feels that she will never want to have kids again if she has this one, and does want to have more. What quality of life will a child like that truly have, if it is born so severly developmentally delayed?

What if its an ectopic pregnancy? What if the mothers health is in risk if the pregnancy is allowed to contunue?

Its far to complicated an issue to have the government apply rulesforbidding women to choose what they want. Chesty's arguement that its a womens right is 'old' may be true but its the reasons abortions are legal and is a valid reason.

This said I have real qualms with abortion on a personal level just like anyone....if a foetus has developed a neural tube is there even a chance its concious? will we ever know? but I think what most women want is just the right for them to choose

 

[chesty]

I said I can look in the mirror cause the question was asked. God made woman to have children for her sins in causing Adam to fall from grace.

I don't have a uterus, thank God, your right I won't know what it is like to have a baby. But that lame ass argument doesn't mean that i am any less affected by the pregnancy.

I also do not support any children that were not aborted, but not wanted.

I differentiate abortion and war like this. War, both sides can defend and fight each other. Right or wrong. An unborn child cannot defend itself nor make its decisions.

so equating the war in Iraq or elsewhere to abortion is not a valid comparison. Holier than thou attitude? I don't. I dissagree vehemently with abortion, that doesn't make me righteous.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Talk about a fucking double standard! The fucking bitch who got herself knocked up and admitted punching herself and doing everything she could to have a miscarriage asked her boyfriend to help her. He succeeded. During his testimoney and her statements to police she admitted punching herself while he was kicking her in the stomach. Impossibe to tell who caused the miscarriage.

So, the guy gets convicted of murder and automatic life in prison, the FUCKING BITCH GETS NOTHING CAUSE IT WAS HER RIGHT TO MURDER HER CHILDREN (OOOOPS, I MEAN ABORT THEIR LIFE)

AND, SHE COULD HAVE PAID A FUCKING DOCTOR WHO TOOK THE HYPOCRATIC OATH TO DO NO HARM TO MURDER (OOOPS, I MEAN ABORT) HER CHILDREN. HE WOULD GET LOADS OF CASH AND GET TO DO IT AGAIN WITHIN THE HOUR TO ANOTHER DUMBASS.

DOES ANYONE HERE SEE HOW FUCKED UP THE LAW IS. BITCH CAN MURDER AND IT IS OKAY. DOCTOR CAN BE PAID TO ASSASINATE A HELPLESS HUMAN BEING AND IT IS OKAY. THE FATHER OF THE CHILDREN WHO HELPS THE MOTHER OF THE CHILDREN MURDER THEIR KIDS GETS LIFE IN PRISON.

AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT HEARING THE ARGUMENT: I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR! IT IS MY RIGHT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. DON'T GET YOUR ASS KNOCKED UP.

Then stop trying to bang us. It takes two to get pregant. If you could have a kid you would see why but you can't so STFU.

 

[Gambino]

Murder bothers my personally, the fact that our society has created a disposable human being called a fetus because it is a sterile term and the pro choice people don't want to take a chance that someone will wake up and realize they are talking about a human life, not a paraiste, nor a non human life and that irresponsibility and selfishness lead to murder for the sake of conveinence.

Anyway, arguing with pro lifers, especially women over the internet is like fishing without the fish being present.

LOL dude come on now...you are all about murdering. you were gonna storm over to Iraq and kill all in sight, a a one man crusade if I remember correctly... Christ even your smilie is about killing

If you claim to be such a religious person, you have quite a large moral contradiction with your views on murder.

 

[squatpuke]

Will this mean that the child is forced upon them, regardless of the consequences to the child?

What if its put into care, who fulfils the obligation to pay for its care? who will adopt any child like this or care for him/her? What if the mother ultimately feels that she will never want to have kids again if she has this one, and does want to have more. What quality of life will a child like that truly have, if it is born so severly developmentally delayed?

These are all conditions/questions that must be considered prior to unprotected sex....personally, I feel you must want children enough to take on the responsibilty for ANY problems they might have....one cannot (should not) abort children for convenience....what if the couple wanted a boy but got a girl? What if they wanted twins but only (God-forbide) got a single...your argument works both ways in both extremes. Quality of life is not based on financial or physical standards....(if it was I would the MOST unhappy/miserable person on earth )

What if its an ectopic pregnancy? What if the mothers health is in risk if the pregnancy is allowed to contunue?

IMHO, this would warrant termination...where I draw a VERY grey line is on the issue of rape.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I stated on the thread.

I HAVE NEVER HAD AN ABORTION.

But were I to become pregnant (many women do inspite of the fact that they use birth control) at this point in my life I may consider an abortion for many reasons, none of which I feel compelled to discuss in this forum.

Bottom line is this - how would any one else who posted on this thread be remotely affected by my decision to either give birth to or abort any child that I would become pregnant with?

 

[Bikini Mod]

I said I can look in the mirror cause the question was asked. God made woman to have children for her sins in causing Adam to fall from grace..

What are you, a fundamentalist now?

Silly man - the ability to carry a life inside you is NOT a punishment...

IT IS A PRIVILIGE ... one that men are not entitled to. Sucks ass, but it is true.

As I said - you will have to take it up with God.

I dissagree vehemently with abortion, that doesn't make me righteous.

No, comments like the ones quoted above make you self-righteous.

 

[Cutiebaby]

I stated on the thread.

I HAVE NEVER HAD AN ABORTION.

But were I to become pregnant (many women do inspite of the fact that they use birth control) at this point in my life I may consider an abortion for many reasons, none of which I feel compelled to discuss in this forum.

Bottom line is this - how would any one else who posted on this thread be remotely affected by my decision to either give birth to or abort any child that I would become pregnant with?

your opinions are your own...same as mine are my own...i was stating how i felt about all of this...i dont look down upon you for your opinion..or for the fact that you would potentially abort a child.....if you were to do it it is better to do it where the child recieves no harm...not like these kids...that all.....

 

[Bikini Mod]

There is no way to end a life without causing harm... You are taking a life.

I respect your opinions and your feelings. You made the best choices FOR YOU.

I have several daughters and though I make it my business to teach them the truth about sexuality, not only the mechanics of it all but the feelings, self-respect, etc they still may at some point (as I could for at least the next decade or so) conceive a child that they may not want to carry to term. It is for them that I want so desperately to protect THEIR RIGHT TO A SAFE CHOICE.

I know it sounds selfish - but I would rather protect the health of the children that I have already brought to this planet than to protect the "right to life" of a child that hasn't even been brought here.

As I said time and time again. If one is opposed to abortion that is their right. They should merely not have one and all is right in the world..... is it not?

 

[Razorguns]

As I said time and time again. If one is opposed to abortion that is their right. They should merely not have one and all is right in the world..... is it not?

True.

Abortion is right or wrong: these are opinions and everyone will have a different take on it. We'll never reach a global consensus.

However.

state CONTROL over a person's body *is* wrong. It is a greater wrong than abortion -- if you're against it.

Either we own or bodies or we don't. The state should have no right over what people can or cannot do with their bodies. That is the key element one must keep in mind in the abortion debate.