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Please help us redesign the perfect ECA fat burner

George Spellwin

George Spellwin

The Architect
Staff member
Administrator
Elite Moderator
Moderator
Dear friends and fellow athletes,

Mass Quantities is taking its time release fat burner Phenyltropic and redesigning it.

It will still contain ephedrine alkaloids, yohimbe, and caffeine, but we thought we would ask you what additional ingredients you would like to see in the ultimate legal fat burner.

If our lab uses an ingredient that you recommend here on the boards, we will give you a six month supply of the redesigned Phenyltropic for free!

So, please make your suggestions here, and be sure to let everyone know the dosage of the ingredients you recommend and why you think they should be included in the formula.


------------------
Yours in sport,

George

George Spellwin
Research Director

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Act now, this is available for a limited time only!
 
admin,this is probably useless to you but the eca i use is plain ol ephedrine goodys powders,]chased w/coffie kicks my ass.
 
Go with the traditional ECA stack; EXCEPT
1) Package/Market it in a "cycle format"
a. by this, I mean 1st 2 wks, 2nd 2wks, 1 week off, Back on. (dependent on studies)
2) FIRST cycle is traditional ECA-yohimbine.
3) 2ND Cycle add L-Tyrosine and Narangenin. This will help to increase the half-life. The amino acid Tyrosine will assist the body in "maintaining" a higher metabolic environment.
4) Add the herbal supplement "guggul". (has effect on Thyroid, but cannot recall specific details)
WILL RESEARCH THE AMOUNTS THAT SHOULD BE UTILIZED and GET BACK WITH THAT INFORMATION.
Summary is as follows: Guggul, L-Tyrosine, and Narangenin.
 
Things that work on an ECA stack.

These are PROVEN.

1. L-Tyrosine at 500mg per dose.
Basic building block of NA.
Very important for optimal thyroid function.

2. Green Tea Polyphenols. Greatly increase
thermogenesis w/ECA added. Aslo increases
BMR by 4% all by themselves.
I don't know why more companies don't use this
product as its one of those "GEMS" that
REALLY DOES WORK.

3. 200mg Lipoic acid per dose??????
Increased glucose oxidation.
Blood glucose regulator.
Great anti-oxidant, free-radical scavenger.
Only problem with the added ALA is
that the final product cost would be
increased substantially.


The rest are worthless.
Synephrine IS TOO WEAK. Gugguls are BS.
HCA DOES NOT WORK IN HUMANS.
Chromium is pretty basic.
Forskholi is WEAK too(Triax-II).
So forget about them.

Just some thoughts....

Godspeed
 
I suppliment my ECS with cromium and also kava kava so I don't feel as cracked out or wired while taking it. Maybe add some ginsing to calm the stomach.
 
Originally posted by Fonz:
Things that work on an ECA stack.
Gugguls are BS.

I think that you will find promising studies for future use of Guggulsterones.

ALSO, what are feelings about Narangenin? I noticed that you didn't mention it along with the other possibilities. There are tons os pharmaceutical literature on its interaction with certain drugs and the ability to extend the half-life of those drugs.
As you are surprised with "green tea", so I am with the apparent lack of knowledge surrounding narangenin. This would definitely make the ECA stack much more powerful!!!
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by JOCKO7:
Originally posted by Fonz:
Things that work on an ECA stack.
Gugguls are BS.

I think that you will find promising studies for future use of Guggulsterones.

ALSO, what are feelings about Narangenin? I noticed that you didn't mention it along with the other possibilities. There are tons os pharmaceutical literature on its interaction with certain drugs and the ability to extend the half-life of those drugs.
As you are surprised with "green tea", so I am with the apparent lack of knowledge surrounding narangenin. This would definitely make the ECA stack much more powerful!!!
Click to expand...
I could go on for hours about tons of compounds,
but here is your response.


I ommitted naringenin because of one-thing.

It slows down the metabolism of the caffeine leading
to prolonged plasma levels of caffeine THAT WILL
INHIBIT A GOOD NIGHTS REST.
If naringenin was aded to the mix, you would have to
take your latest dosage at 2P.M. not 4P.M as
the caffeine-boosting effects of the naringenin
would make sleep VERY, VERY hard.
Naringenin tends to increase the bio-availibility
of oral products, so IT WOULD NOT BE A GOOD
THING TO ADD IF THE PERSON IN QUESTION
WERE TAKING A SPECIFIC MEDICINE WITH
A SPECIFIC DOSAGE. The naringenin would
throw the dosage patterns of the person out-of whack
so-to-speak. This is not good.


Guggulsterones were touted to increase T4-T3
conversion in the liver. However, this is JUST
NOT THE CASE. They do seem to work
great for ACNE. Being even more efficient
than TETRACYCLINE. It seems to more
of a liver anti-oxidant than anything else.

Godspeed
Click to expand...
 
I wish I could find a simple ECA.
Caffeine 200mg (not from guaranara or other herbal source)
Ephedrine HCL 25mg (not from herbal source)
And possibly aspirin (not from herbal source)

This would be cheap and effective with very low side effects due to reactions to the herbal additives.

I'd buy the hell out of it.


-Stew
 
gtaman... that's exactly what I was talking about. That herbal junk that was on that website is easy to find, but the real thing isn't. I do realize the the ephedrine HCL is avalible legally only if it contains guafaresin...

It would be cheaper and probably sell a lot better if it was pure ECA with no additives and no extras.
Just 25mg Ephedrine HCL, 200mg of caffeine...

It would be very cheap to produce.


-Stew
 
Originally posted by Stew Meat:
gtaman... that's exactly what I was talking about. That herbal junk that was on that website is easy to find, but the real thing isn't. I do realize the the ephedrine HCL is avalible legally only if it contains guafaresin...

It would be cheaper and probably sell a lot better if it was pure ECA with no additives and no extras.
Just 25mg Ephedrine HCL, 200mg of caffeine...

It would be very cheap to produce.


-Stew
Click to expand...

I think I read somewhere that its illegal to sell
pre-made pharmaceutical grade ECA stacks,
but its legal to sell the ingredients on their own.
Go figure....

Godspeed
 
Originally posted by Tronco:
How about tossing in some usnic acid ...
Click to expand...

Usnic acid has the ability to cause DNA-damage.
Not a good thing.

Godspeed
 
Why not just sell the chemical versions of each George? Since it is illegal to sell together supposedly, why not just sell each seperate?

I mean, there are 1000 ECA stacks of different added token ingredients, no one sells bottles of 25mg ephedrine, 200mg caffeine, and possibly some yohimbine HCL for 'research purposes only'...if you could swing the yohimbine, that'd be great...


Or what about including some tyramine? Don't know if that's legal though..
 
i would jump up the dosages on what is already in there because i know with a lot of the stuff out there to get a good result, personally, I have to take 6 Xenedrine or like 12 hydroxycut after being on it for awhile. That way you can have the same amount of pills but people will be able to let it last longer which i would love. Other possible things to throw in maybe some L-tyrosine, magnesium 250-500mg, linoleic acid is another to look into in studies it has found to burn fat well in obese people, pyruvate 25-50g though to be effective, lecithin 500mg, and Cellasene which is a fish oil are good ones. Another one hydroxycitric acid 500mg, and chromium picolinate is another though not really proven to be a fat burner 200micrograms. wouldnt want to guess on some of the others for dosages so just leave them up there for others to toss in a dose.

Big
 
I wood like to see dandelion root in there to help drop a little water wieght.
Also ALA, Citrimax, and Gugglestreones.

------------------
"It's like mind over matter. If you don't mind... IT DON'T MATTER"
-John Gotti, when asked how he felt about his life sentence


bullie.gif

My web site...
http://www.geocities.com/richmaffei/pages/home.html
 
"These are PROVEN.

1. L-Tyrosine at 500mg per dose.
Basic building block of NA.
Very important for optimal thyroid function."

L-Tyrosine is a good add, not for thyroidal function, since it really is not the limiting factor in this regard, but due to its anorectant potential. This is most likely due to conversion to dopamine in the CNS, since it was not shown to potentiate thermogenesis, but it did further suppress appetite.

"2. Green Tea Polyphenols. Greatly increase
thermogenesis w/ECA added. Aslo increases
BMR by 4% all by themselves.
I don't know why more companies don't use this
product as its one of those "GEMS" that
REALLY DOES WORK."

This is another good agent, since aside from thermogenesis, they are beneficial for health. Unfortunately, they have been shown to suppress testosterone levels.

"The rest are worthless.
Synephrine IS TOO WEAK."

Synephrine is weak as a CNS stimulant, because it is an alpha-agonist, which tend not to be thermogenic, although synephrine has been shown to have a weak lipolytic effect.

"Gugguls are BS."

True, lacking evidence.

"HCA DOES NOT WORK IN HUMANS."

If only we were rats.

"Chromium is pretty basic."

There is good reasons for chromium use, but mainly it is so cheap, there is no reason not to use it.

"Forskholi is WEAK too(Triax-II)."

A very interesting compound. It has no stimulatory activity, but does show lipolytic and thermogenic value. One study showed it can increase UCP 2 levels.

If I remember correctly, the reason you don't see pure ECA stacks is due to patenting of this combination. If one tried to market this, then they would be violating patent laws.

The aspirin portion is useless, and detrimental to the stomach lining.
 
Double doseages for the Ephendrine and caffein exctracts and yohimbe. Thats it.

------------------
There are millions of black holes in space. Some that are 3 times the size of our sun. At any moment, the entire world could get sucked into one of these massive black holes. We would all die and theres nothing we could do about it. Knowing this, is there really ANYTHING to worry about?
 
1. L-Tyrosine at 500mg per dose.
Basic building block of NA.
Very important for optimal thyroid function.

2. Green Tea Polyphenols. Greatly increase
thermogenesis w/ECA added. Aslo increases
BMR by 4% all by themselves.
I don't know why more companies don't use this
product as its one of those "GEMS" that
REALLY DOES WORK.

3. 200mg Lipoic acid per dose??????
Increased glucose oxidation.
Blood glucose regulator.
Great anti-oxidant, free-radical scavenger.
Only problem with the added ALA is
that the final product cost would be
increased substantially.


The rest are worthless.
Synephrine IS TOO WEAK. Gugguls are BS.
HCA DOES NOT WORK IN HUMANS.
Forskholi is WEAK too(Triax-II).
So forget about them.
 
I would add synephrine (norephedrine), in addition to gugolsterones z and e, in addition to iodine, maybe supplied through the form of kelp. This will give an extra thermogenic effect as well as still support healthy thyroid function with the gugelsterones. The iodine, of course, is to promote the effectiveness of the gugelsterones in promoting your own thyroid production of T3.
 
"I would add synephrine (norephedrine), in addition to gugolsterones z and e, in addition to iodine, maybe supplied through the form of kelp. This will give an extra thermogenic effect as well as still support healthy thyroid function with the gugelsterones. The iodine, of course, is to promote the effectiveness of the gugelsterones in promoting your own thyroid production of T3."

GYNO, synephrine is not norephedrine (phenylpropanolamine), but is also known as phenylephrine. Synephrine is an alpha agonist, while norephedrine (PPA) is a non-selective adrenergic.

Also, iodine during dieting will not improve thyroidal function, unless one is iodine deficient, and that is rarely the case in the US.
 
I also read a couple of studies that showed
EC+aspirin only really works on obese
people, not on lean ones(<15%)
Plus we all knoe herbal aspirin is
UNCOMPARABLE to real aspirin.
I'd drop it entirely.
EC+Polyphenols would be the optimum
combination.
The Dandelion root is also a good idea.

Godspeed
 
i take ephedrine, 500mg of yohimbee, dandelion root, and a cup of coffee 2-3 times a day. with a good diet, some cardio and lift hard, the shit works great. i get ripped and hard in a very short amount of time.
 
1 Xenadrine and 1 ThermoGTX by Prosource and I am the sweatiest guy in the gym. When I leave I usually get really cold , because I was so hot. I won't even mention the amount of bodyfat I've lost in a month while putting on 12 new lbs of solid muscle. Works way better than 2 Xenadrine!!!!! Great board by the way. Tons of useful info!!
 
Hell...if you want to improve on your ECA stack throw some winny in there. That'll get dudes shredded in no time LOL.

------------------
I don't want to be big or strong...I want to be bigger and stronger than I was yesterday.
 
How about a mixture of t3 t4 and dnp.

I don't know if it would kill you but it's just a thought.

This is also the reason why I am not a chemist or making reproduced juice. I would probably have a death ratio of 1 out of 5.
 
fonz...i believe i remember a study that tested green tea on test levels and it reduced them....I came across it on my research for my bio seminar class

my suggestion would be the same as fonz...but make it like a weight loss system cycle....include a multivitamin...take all of the work out of it and provide the customer with everything they could possibly need to optimize fatloss....and include 5-10g pyruvate per serving...as many studies have shown that at those levels it helps in fatloss and lbm preservation...but would make it more expensive
 
Several others mentioned Yohimbe or Yohimbine, but I would specifically like to say put some high potency yohimbe in there. You can't sell Yohimbine, but some potenent yohimbe would do the stack nice.

And maybe some B-12. If you put a little B-12 in each capsule, taking 6-9 capsules a day, the B-12 could help give you a little energy.
 
L-Tyrosine

ECAY + a decent dose of L-Tyrosine. I'd say at lease 1 gram per serving. Tyrosine is the most researched and most successful dietary supplement used by the US military. It has been shown to increase performance in fatigued troops in numerous studies.
 
I'd stay away from the HCA, it causes too many people to have the shits. Tyrosine and Carnitne sound good. What about N-Acetyl Cysteine? The tyrosine will help people out for tans, too.:angel:
 
Good point Kahn. Tyrosine increases melanin production.
Forgot about that one.

Fonz
 
maybe this can help

Caffeine 200mg
Ephedrine HCL 25mg
Chromium Picolinate (not familiar with dose)
Tribulus Terrestris (NFWD)
and how about some BCAA's, this have worked wonders for me.
 
i would throw in some dianaol.... .uhm... .asperin..... c.......horny goatweed.....maybe a little cocaine.....and definitly some of that clam butter oil
 
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