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PGF2a in adipose tissue in love handles?

bigtasty25

bigtasty25

New member
is it possible to use pgf2a for adipose tissue reduction in the stomach region? specifically killing the actual cells, not shrinking then as in dieting... especially love handles n lower stomach...since Ive heard and read about pgf2a's ability to actually kill fat cells...if this is true, can u imagine how it can change one's genetic appearance? :p
 
A couple of years ago I was planning on making a transdermall using pgf2a but couldn't find it anywhere.

From everything I've read, it will work, but you 've got to find it first.
 
kbrkbr said:
A couple of years ago I was planning on making a transdermall using pgf2a but couldn't find it anywhere.

From everything I've read, it will work, but you 've got to find it first.
Click to expand...
There was a lab here making it but they closed up shop. As for pgf2a it is pretty dangerous don't really think the possibility of losing control of your bowels is worth cutting back love handles which can be done with a clean diet over a longer period of time. Just my 2 cents.
 
superqt4u2nv said:
There was a lab here making it but they closed up shop. As for pgf2a it is pretty dangerous don't really think the possibility of losing control of your bowels is worth cutting back love handles which can be done with a clean diet over a longer period of time. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, that ballistic diarehhea effect only happens when you inject it.
 
kbrkbr said:
As I understand it, that ballistic diarehhea effect only happens when you inject it.
Click to expand...
Not the from the research I did and just an FYI and ladies reading this possile side effect for us wimmins is sterility.
 
Hi Guys,

I hope you don't mind me giving you my opinion on this one- Anthony Roberts suggested I should stop by here as its a great Forum!

Anyway- Although most people dream of the localized effects of PGF2 and its analogs- notably PGCL, its true that the site growth is incredible- The fat and water loss is remarkable also-HOWEVER(!) and there is a big HOWEVER here guys- PGF in doses strong enough to acheive the desired effect will cause gastric cramps, on a liquid diet, this means an hour of straining on the toilet, on a full stomach, it means farts that would clear a soccer stradium followed by a long visit to...the toilet.

In keeping with its localised effects, the closer to the gut you inject, the worse it gets. My research and personal usage of PGCL ( effective in doses of around 15micrograms) leads me to the conclusion that whilst the local effects are great- the systemic effects when taken regularly will produce the kind of fat loss I have only ever had/read documented on DNP. A certain % of the injected substance will distribute through every cell in the body, the majority being excreted by the lungs, but this gives a little time to bind in the hypothalmus, where it causes fever. You drip with sweat, you feel cold and get piloerrection although your body temp is still elevated, if you manage to drift off to sleep, you will have feverishly disturbed thoughts, along the same lines as Lysergic acid.

But the overall heat will melt fat everywhere especially if combined with clen and T3. Just dont use an ECA stack as I read (which makes perfect sense) it will inhibit the inflammatory actions of the prostaglandins as will any COX-inhibitor. It's also possible, but this is rampant speculation, that prostaglandins may act in some way as a mild uncoupling agent. I say this because the feeling you get from a stiff dose PGCL is unnervingly similar to a decent dose of DNP.

I can also tell you that on PGCL I lost 3lbs within 3 days, which again is comparable with DNP, although some of this must be water loss.
If you want to chat more about this let me know as my own experience with it has been very successful to this point-ie. not dead!!,

However, specifically :
a. Don't inject around the mid section unless you have a fetish for porcelain and pile ointment and b. you will lose all of your body fat anyway due to the systemic effects.

Hope this helps.

James
 
James,
How many days did you stay on it? What would you recomend for a beginer? The sides will scare most people away, however your writeup on IPs site pointed out that this uncomfortness only lasts around 1/2 hr or so (other than the hunger part). Then again it's 3X daily(every 8 hrs). Sounds interesting, I'd like to see some more gunnie pigs try it first and hear their results. BTW I'm currently 39years old, 6'4" 240lbs approx 15%BF.
Thanks,
D
 
id be a guinea pig...sign me up my farts already clear soccer stadiums!
 
If you do a flip through of old 2000 posts (Jan-March), both Big Brother Val and RANGER had excellent write-ups of their PGF2a use. Those were the best threads i've seen on EF in regards to member experience with this compound. The search does not work for 2000, so you will have to flip through each thread one by one until you run across them.

BMJ
 
Several guys on another board claimed to be getting great localized fat loss with a transdermal PGF2a product, with some side effects, but nothing like injecting it.
 
Doug

After 30 minutes of trying to stop staring at your avatar!

Me and IP settled on a provisional dose of PGCL (which again is much stronger than PGF2)

0.5mcg/per kg/per day for the first couple of weeks.

Doses will need to increase as time progress.

Im still on it, When the dose size because uncomfortable, I'll come off then, but at the moment, its all gravy!

You can do between 3-6 times a day with meals, no less than two is generally advised, but you can get to a point where you dont need to run to the toilet.


-----

I tried to upload some pictures taken just before I started- but theyre too big:
If you log onto www.synergy-solutions.org (dont panic, its not a discussion board!)

Someone else mentione "losing control of bowels". Its not like that at all. You inject, and based on your dose, you either wont go to the toilet (after a couple of weeks on a low dose, or on a high dose, you inject, and can feel it coming on gradually up to 20 minutes, and its not as if your going to be shooting somewhere public (especially in the US!!!!) all it does its alter your normal pattern. Most of us know as soon as we get up we are going to need to go, so I shoot mine before breakfast, take protein, tabs etc, then go as normal, use a low dose during the day, and then with dinner at night do a large dose (and go to the loo) and pre bed with 100gms of protein, do a low dose in my forearms as Ive usually been playing the drums quite harshly.

Its do-able, but just a bit daunting. But whats the worst than can happen. The beauty of this drug, as myself and IP were discussing is that with HGH people fuck up the doses, dont use it with T4, dont use it with Insulin (Although HGH is the manin culprit in inducing insulin resistence, not IGF- Typed a huge post on this on a UK forum last night- remind me and I'll cut and paste it) wont use enough gear because theyve spent all their money on the HGH, and will get a poor return on their investment...

With this stuff, You pull one tenth of an insulin pin, your going to feel it (remember the original 500mcg superclen mixed with 10mg Ketotifen years ago..?Like that!!) your going to see results by the end of the day simply from the diuertic effects, and the worst thing that can happoen is..... your going to shit, which correct me if Im wrong, but you all do daily on a regular basis :)

But you just ask your training partner if he can see a difference, after 2 minutes, after 2 hours, and after 2 days.. its that simple!

Anyway- Im off to do my calves and have my breakfast and get some paid work done- Here is a cut and paste of a response Idrafted to answer the 100+ emails Im getting a day in response to a post on IP's site:


I have a confession to make though. Since christmas, I Started on PGFCL ( a synthetic PGF2 analog.) Remember when you first heard about it 5 years ago, you site injected 1ml six times a day...? Well, the new stuff, you inject one tenth of an insulin needle. I lost 3lbs within as many days..the thermogenic effects I can only compare to DNP or fever, and the site growth is just incredible. So for the first time in 10 years or so, Im off steroid completley, and even have the testicles to Prove it!!!!!!

The stuff induces changes in your physique that are like a comic book, and within a day you go to the gym and everyone notices, and asks what he fucking hell your doing as you have a bag of donuts in your hand which you eat on the treadmill warming up, but you look like youve been dieting and on DNP and Lasix. You use it on laggin body parts ( like calves) and they actually swell up before your eyes- no, not like Synthol, no mere stretching of the muscle fasscia, but think about it, think about Arachidonic acid, think about the swelling you get if you bang your head...comes up in seconds doesnt it...? Thats the start of Inflammation and after that comes healing. Well, IGF Homes in on damaged muscle tissue right? Signaller molecules are emitted when we mechanically overload the muscle which causes the body to realise there is damage that needs repairing and hey presto Protien synthesis! Bill Lllew. marketed Arachidonic Acid as a seperate product as it starts it off, being released especilly during the eccentric phase of the movement, well, you bang in a dose of this to the area you want the body to beleive has been massivley mechanically overloaded, then at the same time, introduce some IGF-1...Guess where its going to bind.... Last time I managed to overload my calves, like you can any other body part ie go into gym pick up a weight and there will be sufficinat there to allow you to fail at however many reps you like, not as if you go to do a curl and you can do 20 reps then put it down and get bored if you dont want to... what Im getting at is you all know my views on overloading the type 2 fibres for preferntial hypertrophy, and if your doing stabnding calf raise with straight legs, thats why you do it, the gastroc is a mobiliser and is composed mainly of type 2s. The soleus is composed mainly of type 1's and we train that sitting down (I just wrote a drumm series based on this concept!) We train type 2's with heavy weights and low reps, and type 1's with low eight and lots of reps.. But anyway, My point is I can lift the stack on the calf for something like 30 40 reps, until I get bored basically- A few weeks ago I got two blokes, one 20 stone, one 23 stone to hang off the bars at the end and actually reached failue at 8 reps! So thats one decent workout in 6 months for them...why are they lagging..? Hmmmmm..........

With PGCL, You can mechanically overload a specific strip of muscle tissue with an insulin needle. Why such a great response on a lagging body part...? Just think about how someone new to training responds to training in their first 6weeks... They often more than double their strength and can put on 3kg of muscle in about 10 weeks of gear free lifting.... See where this is going...? You can acheive that overload 6 times a day. When I first did my calves, I went into a shop I model for, and showed them my leg and they said fucking hell, what have you been doing, and I had to reply, thats just me standing normally, I cant actually tense it at the moment. Your muscles will look more pumped at rest than when you tensed previosuly.

I have no doubt this will arouse a shit storm of controversy which as usual will be founded on very little scientific evidence, because frankly, there is nt that much available yet. And all of the literature that is available-Dharkam and Brian Haycock have written the best ( in terms of a lay audience, without wishing to patronise anyone here) But there doses are based on PGF-2 which used doses of 1mg. Im using PGCL, and per dose I am using 15 MICROGRAMS PER DOSE. Christ ,will you know its working, not only do you feel intense heat, those around you will witness intense swelling, and you will really need the toilet very badly- but you will feel as if something is physcially crawling under your skin- seen the scarab beetles in the mummy...? I had that in my calf yesterday, its fucking hilarious! But heres the best bit.Ahem. For those of you enhanced chappies (Chappeses cannot use this for ovarian reason) you'll appreicate this instantly, and for those of you conning yourself that your "all Natural" (Just remember, If its come out of a Laboratory, its no longer all natural- and if it hasnt gone through a lab, it wont end up in a packet) tot up the amount you spend on creatine Vitamins Glutamine and whatever else the media promise will give you steroid like effects but without it actually being anything other than natural (even though they isolated it from a plant- Presumably by chewing and spitting it out- natures way eh guys..?). PGCL, which will give you changes that anyone will notice, in real time costs.......£20

I'll say that again. £20. You cant buy decent viatmins from Holland and Barret for 20 quid!

500 Micrograms (£20) will last for 10 days at a dose of 45micrograms per day. And you can come off gear. No homronal axis to disturb.

Gentleman, We are on the verge of a revolution in our sport. Well, to be fair the pors have been using it for years- the fullness, the hardness- you cannot take steroids with it because the pump is so great you cant actally move throughout a full range of motion! And the joy of never having to look down the barrel of a 21/25 gauge needle! I guarentee you, within a week of PGCL, you will be wondering why you spent money on steroids all these years.

My current stack looks like this:

100mcg T3 ED
500 mcg of Clen ED
Maybe some ephedrine, but not ECA because it inhibits Prostaglandin activity.
15 units ED HMG :eusa_dance:
80mg ED Nolvadex
30mcg IGF-1

It has been the most unbeleivable experience of my life so far, and its so nice to have bollocks again!!!! :roll: :oops:


Hope this helps!
 
As for the legal status of PGF in the US- Not sure, I don't live there!Anthony would probably be the best person to ask about that.

As for "I call bullshit". I get this all the time. Its funny for me. Really funny. It means- "I've never heard of anyone doing it, so it must be rubbish" kind of the same mentality that causes superstion etc.

Anyway- Years and years ago, probably before many of you even dreamed of touching Deca, IP labs, made a product called Superclen, which he still makes to this day. Now (Children! :) ) we were cottening onto the idea that Clen caused massive b2 receptor degradation, rendering each successive dose less effective- this why you hear about 2 days on, 2 off etc. Well, being the clever sods we were, we noted that UK doctors administered a substance called Ketotifen to asthmatics, alongside salbutamol (structurally Clen, but with a shorter half life- similra relationship of T3 - T4 on a mcg for mcg potency basis, but with an inverse realtionship for half life!) but no-one had realised why. Even the texts that I later made an update on were stumped (Pharmacology-ritter dale,rang-2000), they said the reason for it is unclear. Well the reason is, as youve probably guessed, that it allowed receptors to regenerate, allowing a virtually consistant dose to be administered for long periods.

So, IP Made a version of clen called superclen, which contained 500mcg of clen, with 10mg of ketotifen, which is (If memory serves) an antihistamine and makes you very sleepy. He sold alot because most people needed only a quarter of a tab a day to get the shakes, and it sold for $1 a tab, do the maths.

He withdrew it though because there was always some pratt who thought "Its not really that strong, it cant be, because Ive never heard of it etcetc" and received loads of complaints.

Someone in England Had realised the virtue of these magic pills and invested in a few. He has been on them ever since, and can tolerate a full tab or more. Ive seen someone on DNP take 4 and not shake at all (because of the DNP)

So even more unbeleviable, is as within the first 1 minutes after administration of a b2 agonist, up to 90% of the recptors can dissapear, so just imagine the effect of the two combined.

He now makes a 200mcg version and sells ketotifen seperatley.

Ive been on it for longer than most have been on gear- so if you take into account that, its not really unbeleivable- its called "Attenuation", I beleive.

Hope that clears that up!
 
Share with all of us the TD delivery of this shit.
So, 15mcq per site? IM correct (heard that PGF2 was used SQ a lot).
 
Why,why why-(delila?!)

Hi- This is a cut and paste:

QFS Dinoprost-Gel Transdermal Fat Reduction PGF-2a
QFS Dinoprost-Gel, Transdermal Fat Reduction active ingredients

Dinoprost Tromethamine 150mg ( Prostraglandin F2 alpha) and Dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO 25%)

Prostaglandin F2alpha is a potent inhibitor of adipocyte precursor differentiation and a physiological negative modulator of adipocyte function (ie triglyceride accumulation) through stimulation of transforming growth factor-alpha mRNA expression. It initiates a cascade of effects in the adipoctes which have physiological importance to reducing the size and it appears number of mature cells,long after PGf-2a is cleared from the system


Mature adipose cells only shrink in size in response to restricted caloric intake or increased metabolic demand. Before now the only method of reducing the number of fat cells was liposuction. It now appears that Pgf-2a applied topically can have the same same effecst as diet and liposuction. Pgf-2a can reduce the size of mature adipocytes and the number of mature adipocytes through negative modulation and reversing the process of differentiation

There are no studies on topical application. DMSO does carry PGF-2a through the dermal layers and the low concentration spread over a large area is ideal for the intended purpose. One cannot spread PGf-2a (or anyother substance) over the surface area that one can with DMSO topical application. The idea being that you need to interact as many molecules of PGF-2a with as many mature fat cells as possible. The biggest asset to DMSO as a carrier is the ability to spread the PGF-2a applicatiion over a large surface area, thereby maximising the interactuion of the number PGF-2a molucules with the maximum number of fat cells. This is where the DMOS method really shines. QFS is not masking the smell of the DMSO. It is not that bad and goes away in about 5 minutes.

It is important to remember that dinoprost tromethamine does not burn the released fatty acids, aerobic exercise and or T3 will take care of that. PGF-2a only changes the way fats are stored and the formation and function of adipose tissue. As well I find that about half of the time I feel a tickle in the back of my throat and sometimes I have a full out cou***ng fit. This says to me that I have applied a good dosage.


Here are some studies that support PGF-2a and negative modulation of adipose tissue.

Endocrinology 1995 Aug;136(8):3222-9

Prostaglandin F2 alpha stimulates transforming growth factor-alpha expression in adipocyte precursors.

Lepak NM, Serrero G.

W. Alton Jones Cell Science Center, Inc., Lake Placid, New York 12946, USA.

Transforming growth factor-alpha (TGF alpha) and prostaglandin F2 alpha (PGF2 alpha) are potent inhibitors of adipocyte differentiation. We demonstrate here that TGF alpha messenger RNA (mRNA) is expressed in freshly isolated fat pads and in primary culture of adipocyte precursors cultivated in defined medium before and after differentiation. We show that PGF2 alpha stimulated TGF alpha mRNA expression in a dose-dependent manner. PGF2 alpha also stimulated TGF alpha production in the culture medium of adipocyte precursors in primary culture. PGF2 alpha stimulated TGF alpha mRNA expression in both undifferentiated and differentiated cells. 9 alpha,11 beta-PGF2 alpha, which also inhibited adipose differentiation, stimulated TGF alpha mRNA expression similarly to PGF2 alpha, whereas other PGs had no effect on TGF alpha mRNA expression. The time-course experiment indicates that the stimulation of TGF alpha mRNA expression by PGF2 alpha is observed within 6 h of exposure to PGF2 alpha and is inhibited by treatment of the cells with actinomycin D. The effect of PGF2 alpha on TGF alpha expression did not require activation of protein kinase C and was fully reversible. As both TGF alpha and PGF2 alpha are inhibitors of adipose differentiation, it is suggested that stimulation of TGF alpha expression by PGF2 alpha could represent an amplification mechanism to modulate adipocyte precursor differentiation and adipocyte function within the adipose tissue.




Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1996 Mar;20 Suppl 3:S58-64 R


Endocrine and paracrine negative regulators of adipose differentiation.

Serrero G, Lepak N.

W Alton Jones Cell Science Center, Inc, Lake Placid, NY 12946, USA.

Obesity which is characterized by an abnormal adipose tissue development is a first degree public health hazard in industrialized countries. One important aspect in the study of adipose tissue development is to investigate the hormonal control of proliferation and differentiation. Any qualitative or quantitative change in these hormones or their receptors can result in abnormalities in the process of proliferation and/or differentiation possibly leading to obesity. Therefore, it is important to identify these factors and investigate their mechanism of action. We have concentrated our efforts in the study of factors triggering differentiation (positive regulators) and also of factors inhibiting differentiation (negative regulators). The present paper provides evidence of the importance of EGF/TGF-alpha and of PGF2 alpha as differentiation inhibitors for adipocyte precursors in primary culture. Data presented here also demonstrate that TGF-alpha is expressed in adipose tissue and that its expression is specifically stimulated by PGF2 alpha, thus suggesting the existence of an amplification mechanism between two differentiation inhibitors within the adipose tissue. The importance of these two types of differentiation inhibitors in the regulation of adipose tissue development is discussed.


-------------------------

I should mention a few points- Authors account of bronchoconstriction is indeed consistent with a good dose. This is one of the reasons to stack with with a bronchodilator such as Clenbuterol, or as mentioned in another thread by Anthony, Albuterol (which has a relationship to clen much akin to T4- T3. We get salbutamol inhalers over here and pre training there great- you do need a higher dose (( see previous t4/t3 statement)) but its over before the shakes start to piss you off!) as it prevents this becoming a problem.

The other IMO is the relative futility, both pharmacoldynamically, and financially of using
a) PGF2 and
b) PGF2 Transdermally.

Please allow me to elucidate! (ive been dying to use that word for a while now)

PGF2 according to the literature, is effective in doses of 1mg.
The first experimental dose of PGCL sent to me by IP was ( 75mcg per ml) effective in 15mcg. Anybody unfamiliar with the difference- simply move the decimal place.
1mg= 1000mcg.
And its cheaper.
Point a pt2: The new version of PGCL is 500mcg per ml and retails for $30.

Point b: Here you have a drug that not only will burn fat systemically. I know Ive said it before, But if you look at my pictures posted in this thread and my avatar ( which I will get resized so you can actually see what I look like) I am even leaner than that now. The drug will affect you systemically- its as simple as that. As I type this one hour 40 minutes after a bicep shot, Im sitting here in the freezing cold UK with sweat running off my forehead.

You cannot help but lose the fat everywhere. Stubborn fat depositis are the result of 'hormonal protection' if you like, and genetic predisposition. A great observation was made about fat deposition in women- Asian women put fat on the stomach, mediteranean women on the hips, and black women on the rear.

If you are having problems with 'love handles' Bang in some Test/fluoxymesterone/stanozolol/furazabol/Drostanolone with an inhibtor such as Letrozole or Anastrozole (Anastrozole itself at 1mg inb the absence of eogneous test is enough to cause hot flushes akin to the menopause.) then start injecting the PGCL with some T3 and Clen, and watch the fat melt.

My point is here you have a drug with incredible GROWTH and Fat loss potential, but by using it Transdermally, you are preferntially targeting the fat cells, and denying yourself 50% of the fucking incredible effects of this revolutionary compound.

As for dose, We settled on 0.5mcg per kilo per day. But After a few weeks I can tolerate 75 mcg per day. I just finsihed a bicep tricep shoulder workout, and have just sited 15mcg in each bicep with 10 mcg of IGF in the same (insulin) needle and put another 10mcg in each rear delt. The heat- oh the fucking heat! Im probably using a ml a day which is 75mcg, which is equiv. to <> 7-8ml of straight,expensive PGF2.

Having said that, in error the first shot I did, was 1ml- and the effects were awesome.

These doese will need tinkering with, but theyre a good starting guide. Try the first one shot at 7.5mcg 3 times daily, then go up from there.

Speaking of errors- Another one I rectified recently, off topic, was my use of HMG, for some reason I was shooting it before bedtime. It then occured to me (see http://www.synergy-solutions.org/articlestraining.html) that as Ive battered people for years, that the objective is to restore NATURAL test production and circaidian patterns-, well, peak LH/ISCSH is midday, so I was actually a good 12 hours off naturalm restoration. Doing it in morning now.

Check out: http://www.synergy-solutions/links.html

Read the articles, watch the funny videos-be told!!!!!
:)

Hope this helps!
 
Now the fat loss, if im not mistaken is due to not only fat cell release of FFAs but also from induction of apoptosis in the fat tissue?
How available is this PGCL? Isnt 500mcg/ml a lot? One would have to cut the ml WAY down before they shot it?

Im currently taking tren enth at 400mg a week, 50mg oral masteron (methyl-DHT) ED, 20mg nolva ED and letro at .625mg ED. My problem area is the handles and hips and ass.....it goes back there SOOOO easy after i loose it that i need to kill those fat cells so i dont rebound all the time.
THinking of adding a fat burner and CLA at about 5 grams a day (CLA has been noted to cause apoptosis in adipose as well).
 
Where would one even begin to look for PGCL? What is this product normally produced for? Also, does it increase muscle cell size like AAS, or increase the number of cells like GH?
 
OK, i am able to get all goodies needed for a pg2fa transdermal product.

just need ratios now....

Lutalyse - PGF-2a 5mg/ml (30ml) = 150mg PGF-2a

I think the ratio was (for home made transdermal)

DMSO = 25%
Aloe Vera Gel = 75%
PGF2a = 150mg

can anyone verify this??
 
mm107 said:
OK, i am able to get all goodies needed for a pg2fa transdermal product.

just need ratios now....

Lutalyse - PGF-2a 5mg/ml (30ml) = 150mg PGF-2a

I think the ratio was (for home made transdermal)

DMSO = 25%
Aloe Vera Gel = 75%
PGF2a = 150mg

can anyone verify this??
Click to expand...


Here's the recipe I saved years ago when trying to find this stuff. Best of luck. I've been waiting years to try this stuff.

PGF2A Transdermal Formula

Things needed

1 30ml bottle pgf2a cost depends on where you get it.

15 ml’s DMSO gel any farm and ranch supply should have it for $2

75 ml’s fruit of the earth aloe Vera gel I chose this as it was the thickest I could find Wal-Mart $3.95 I used the aloe Vera gel to get rid of the skin irritation from the DMSO.


Step 1
Measure out the 15ml’s dmso gel into a small Pyrex bowl as dmso leaches metal salts out of metallic objects place in the sun or other warm area till it melts.

2. Add the pgf2a to the DMSO stir using a glass rod leave it sitting in the heat some more till it’s all liquid.

3. Add the 75 ml’s of aloe Vera gel and mix. I used a small plastic Wisk worked well to mix it all together.

4. Put into a squeeze bottle or other container that can be sealed stick it in the fridge for and hour and everything will gel up again and it’s ready to use. The yield is the same as the other transdermal pgf2a that is out there a little over 1mg per ml a little goes a long way so you don’t need a lot.
 
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kbrkbr said:
PGF2A Transdermal Formula

Things needed

1 30ml bottle pgf2a cost depends on where you get it.

15 ml’s DMSO gel any farm and ranch supply should have it for $2

75 ml’s fruit of the earth aloe Vera gel I chose this as it was the thickest I could find Wal-Mart $3.95 I used the aloe Vera gel to get rid of the skin irritation from the DMSO.


Step 1
Measure out the 15ml’s dmso gel into a small Pyrex bowl as dmso leaches metal salts out of metallic objects place in the sun or other warm area till it melts.

2. Add the pgf2a to the DMSO stir using a glass rod leave it sitting in the heat some more till it’s all liquid.

3. Add the 75 ml’s of aloe Vera gel and mix. I used a small plastic Wisk worked well to mix it all together.

4. Put into a squeeze bottle or other container that can be sealed stick it in the fridge for and hour and everything will gel up again and it’s ready to use. The yield is the same as the other transdermal pgf2a that is out there a little over 1mg per ml a little goes a long way so you don’t need a lot.
Click to expand...

thats the exact one i was looking for! Thanks bro
 
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How available is this PGCL?

Very! http://www.synergy-solutions.org/links.html click on "IP labs"

Isnt 500mcg/ml a lot?

Yes!Thats he beauty of it. 15mcg is a good dose, at around 45mcg per day, youd be getting (allowing for wastage) around 9-10 days. Make some redijects, stick them in the fridge- Job done.

One would have to cut the ml WAY down before they shot it?

Thats a safe assumption!


The 3lbs in 3 days you lost was probably all water?

I dont (didnt!) use aromatizing gear, and run T3 constantly. The diueresis was not as pronounced as the heat due my initial-shall we say- loading dose, which put me in bed with fever- Theres obviously going to be some water loss, but if you inject 75mcg with 100mcg T3 and 500mcg of clen with some Halotestin,Ephedrine, Winstrol,Furazabol, and Masteron- but the heat signals fat loss (altthough we could go back and forth wondering how many pounds of water I sweated out).

Basically if you want to see exactly how much water subcuntaeous water I hold: http://www.synergy-solutions.org/officialphotopage.html

Thats me year round. My muscles never lost any fullness, so we can assume its not coming from there!

http://www.synergy-solutions.org/links.html :worried:
 
My research and lots of brain crushing thinking has lead me to a few conclusions on the two kinds of dose protocol, and I can think of a good reason for each- Ill outline them later today when I get back in. Comes back to simple bio-energetics again.

Also, Im going to try PGCL subQ around the midsection and will keep you posted.
 
Sub Q

In response to the vast amount of enquires I've received on this topic- and in the interests of science, and my vanity- (5 minutes and 47 seconds ago)Ive just administered 15mcg of PGCL subcutaneously.

I'll let you know how it goes, and if it saves pissing around with DMSO, so much the better!
 
Acute effects

15mcg sub q PGCL

16 minutes- Mild systemic temperature elevation

23 minutes-Obligatory visit to bathroom

39 mins-Systemic heat still notable- mild bronchoconstriction.

Cosmetic:

Slight swelling at site of injection.
 
Re: Acute effects

Dr James Daemon said:
15mcg sub q PGCL

16 minutes- Mild systemic temperature elevation

23 minutes-Obligatory visit to bathroom

39 mins-Systemic heat still notable- mild bronchoconstriction.

Cosmetic:

Slight swelling at site of injection.
Click to expand...


Damn bro, I dont know how your abs can get much better, you look awesome
 
I might try it at 0.02cc twice a day (10mcg twice daily). It will still induce apoptosis in fat at that dose im sure, might cut down on the smooth muscle contractions at only 10mcg as compared to 15mcg.....
Slin pins measure in graduations of 0.01cc correct?
 
i picked up primordial performance's carrier solution. Im picking up pgf2a next week....

also will start a log for everyone to follow. This product seems VERY Promising. So we will see. Besides, since time on = time off, i still have 1 month to go clean, and this would be fun since im not running anything but an eca right now...
 
bigrand said:
I might try it at 0.02cc twice a day (10mcg twice daily). It will still induce apoptosis in fat at that dose im sure, might cut down on the smooth muscle contractions at only 10mcg as compared to 15mcg.....
Slin pins measure in graduations of 0.01cc correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, and Yes!

Gentleman- I am pleased to confirm that it works. You are cleared for Sub Q for fat loss at moderate dosages. If you want to confirm it works, do one side of the body. The Gastric side effects are no worse (my subjective opinion) than Injected IM in other body parts- but I must re-iterate that I have not tried it IM in the midsection- it defeats the object.

The local swelling goes swiftly.

The only thing that its impossible to tell from this experiment is wheter the loss is permenant, so I urge everyone to try it and report back to the local community.

I am preparing to unleash an article on the use of PGCL/MGF and the arguments for the several combinations (when I get a break from paid employment), there are a few ways of cycling this stuff, and there are valid cases for each, so I want to explore those in more depth and get some discussion going.

I feel its a shame we've had this stuff on the shelves for so long without taking advantage of its potential.

One last thing, Some of the feedback Ive received indicates that larger individuals need to adjust the dose range to experience the full effects.
Intially, for safeties sake, we advised 0.5mcg/kg/day. For those exceeding 16-17stone, Id be inclined to take an initial dose of .7mcg/kg/day and work up from there.

Good luck, and heres some pictures taken the other morning when I had the flu so bad I had to stand on a heater in between pictures!
 
td1111 said:
Dr James Daemon, do you know if PGCL causes Hypertrophy or Hyperplasia?
Click to expand...

Good question!Off the top of my head, Id go for hypertrophy via "inflammatory mechanisms." Ultimatley the cell size could predispose them to dividing quicker, but this is speculation. Also, as most who are using it are using it with various growth factors, as opposed to AAS which renders the muscle functionally unusable (unable to complete full range of motion due to swelling) Id go for hypertrophy.

It would be foolish to overlook the anecodotal synergy people are having with growth factors.

Ok! I've been engaging in my favourite pasttime- experimenting with chemicals, and my conclusions are thus.

In order to prep my metabolism for this first experiment, I had to knock out the clen, the PGCL, and stop training, and increase my caloric intake... The purpose..? To see if the localised fat loss if permenant.

I put on around half a stone of pure junk, then started sub q injections of PGCL.

First thing I noticed was that the fat deposition was not uniform around the body. ie, in areas where the PGCL had been injected, therfe where islands of fat appearing. Yes, it does look strange!
This means on sub q shots it may be worth keping a note of everywhere youve shot, so you can even it out.

The fat loss in the areas does seem to be permenant, in that I canot get it to reappear locally. Its quite funny to see your shape change- over time, youd have to inject the areas you never had a problem with. I cant see PGCL administration ever stopping the body from depositing fat, so it would be interesting to see how it layers the new deposits around the body. We have yet to see....

Next observation, and from the brave ones of you who dared to try it, tolerance builds up quickly, within 12-24 hours the gastric side effects diminish, and over the course of approx. 4 days the dose needs to increase. A very pleasent result I noted was that a day off PGCl is enough to restore the potency of the drug. I would hate to be the one at this stage (without anything other than anecdotal observations) who comes up with a rigid 4 on, 1 off type of cycle, But when the dose needs to be increased exponentionally, take a day off- everyones different!

Sub Q shots are most certainly fit for the purpose of fat loss. Side effects are same as IM but not as pronounced. I noted bronchoconstriction on one shot only, which I would take to be not indicative of the norm for this route of administration.

So, rotate sites within same love handle for instance, and away we go.

Having experimented on PGCL with athletes, my conclusions at this time are:

This drug is best suited to bodybuilders, and posers!

:rolleyes:

The frequncecy of usage of a given limb in anyone desiring to maintain a high degree of performence in any sport precludes PGCL from being used in the protocol established. More simply, it will hurt like fucking hell, and stop the range of movement, and thus limit the intensity of training.

So for bodybuilders, not really the best off season compound, due to to effect on ability to train heavy.

Absolutley spot on however, for the cutting phase of training, leading up to a show. The training done here (much as though Ive always felt there is a case for strength training) is usually erring toward hi rep, low weight, high volume.
PGCL is amazing for its ability to produce incredible swelling, that on cluding the cycle remains as full, muscle, even when water levels are low- on the most meagre rations of training.

The lightest workout is enough to make an individual with bodyfat under 20% see results certainly beyond mosts wildest dreams.

In the precontest phase, when low carbs and losing water can render the user flat looking, this is manna from heaven. Used IM it will function simply to make the muscle swell up as if youd injected an oil based compound. However, at the same time, subcutaneous water is shedding, as your high liquid consumption and translucent urine will attest to.

Systemic fat loss occurs, which most users will find usefull in this phase.

In short- every drug, every exercise, every cockeyed diet plan, has its use toward a specific goal, at a specific time in the overall plan, and my experimenting with PGCL thus far have lead me to beleive that this is the BEST precontest, pre beach, pre photoshoot drug there is.

As part of my experimenting, I mentioned I stopped training and continued to eat ridiculously. However, I am still losing weight, and still growing. No-one beleives Im not training at usual intensity. For maintence, and whenever you want a holiday from training... this will keep you in the condition most aspire to whilst you sit on your arse and eat junk.

And for those of you listening in black and white- I love this stuff!

I did have a tshirt:
http://www.synergy-solutions.org/teeshirts.html

that said "Take drugs, eat shit, lift weights.
Simle enough...?"

Im getting some new ones done that read:
"Take drugs, eat shit, lift weights...
.......Occasionally........."


:)
 
How bad is the muscle pain when used IM? Specifically, in the calves. Can you walk the next day at least, or are you limping for 2-5 days?
 
Perhaps PGCL might offer more even fat loss using is transdermally. The results might be slower, but it could be more uniform than SubQ.
 
td1111 said:
How bad is the muscle pain when used IM? Specifically, in the calves. Can you walk the next day at least, or are you limping for 2-5 days?
Click to expand...

You'll stop limping after about 10-20 mins. That said, you'll feel a little 'displaced' for a couple of days. My drumming is a little dubios after the leg shots, but you can still lift up to your maximal (which will go down!!) Motor control will suffer temporarily, Which is why I suggest this may be better for bodybuilders instead of athletes.
 
So doc, would you recommend shooting this and IGF in the same muscle groups, around the same time? I'm still pretty damn skeptical, but i'm gonna give it a shot and see what happens,because there's only one way to find out. I knew of quite a few people that have used pgf2a in the past and were impressed with it, but also knew quite a few who were disappointed by it.
 
interesting stuff. I think I will stick to my gh/t4/clen for fat loss. Just the thought of any extra colon activity makes my rectum hurt.
Is that 500 mcgs a typo? At 200 I get some pretty wicked cramps.
 
Key question: How much does this differ from PGF2a? It seems to be the component or analog of the drug that is anabolic/thermogenic. What other advatages are there other than smaller dosages? Does having this analog isolated reduce other unwanted side effects???

Also, if the dosages are so much smaller, might there be a need to dilute it to get a more even spread throughout the muscle? Would this reduce pain, and if so, what would be the ideal solvent?
 
speedbacker said:
So doc, would you recommend shooting this and IGF in the same muscle groups, around the same time? I'm still pretty damn skeptical, but i'm gonna give it a shot and see what happens,because there's only one way to find out. I knew of quite a few people that have used pgf2a in the past and were impressed with it, but also knew quite a few who were disappointed by it.
Click to expand...

Thats a good question. And the logical answer seems to be "Yes".

In certain body parts, when you inject the PGCL, you get a little red bit where the swelling is. When you IGF-1 in exatcly the same position, the redness seems to stay a little longer. But if just put into the same muscle group, it doesnt make any visible difference, but I would logically do the two in the same group.

Same goes for MGF also.

If comparing experiences to PGF, just bear in mind the difference in strength when you come to use it!!!!
 
Kachunga said:
interesting stuff. I think I will stick to my gh/t4/clen for fat loss. Just the thought of any extra colon activity makes my rectum hurt.
Is that 500 mcgs a typo? At 200 I get some pretty wicked cramps.
Click to expand...

funny you should say that- I had this arrive earlier today:

"I wasn't fat but whatever body fat i did have is completly gone, my skin is paper thin and because ive been
> dosing my bies and tries only I can train indefinatly without
> fatigue. I started the correct dose and feel better. This is the
> most dramatic result I've ever seen in a few days. This is what six
> months of 5 ius a day of growth does."

Its interesting to read a sheet of these because peoples experience does differ- some guys dont get affected by the need for the bathroom so badly, as others getting shortness of breath. But all of the reports point to fat and water loss, and muscle growth of a kind that has shocked alot of seasoned AAS HGH users. If anyone wants a sheet of reports, let me know and I'll post them.

And no, the 500mcg isnt a typo! Cramps are terrible- its what I would call an intrusive dose. There are two really bad instances. First is when your leg and foot cramps when your driving fast. I invented a new ball and edge downshift manover the other day when my right foot cramped and I couldnt hit the brake!

The other is the cramp you get around the testicles when someone makes you laugh really hard- Jesus!!!!!When you tell people to stop making you laugh or youll get cramp in your bollocks- you should see their faces!!haha!

Ok-This is off topic- but give it a go if your tired of living :)

Two pictures-before and after original superclen!

After picture. left foot operates brake and accelerator, right foot clutch for doubles!
 
Dr. James : i have been trying to get my hands on pgf2a, i am trying to make a transdermal formula. Now i find it, but it is pricey, i do not want to do IM/SUBQ shots, only transdermal ( this is an personal expieriment, as i will do IM/SUBQ in the future)

my question:

do you know the molecular weight of 'PGCL' ? or how absorb able it is? i know pgf2a cannot be used with a pregnant woman around since it will cause miscarriages if it is transfered, which is supposedly very easily...

i hope it has a molecular weight less then 300....now i gotta find out.

but DR. James, have you ever administered in transdermally?
 
Dr James Daemon said:
If anyone wants a sheet of reports, let me know and I'll post them.
Click to expand...

Doc- I would be interested in seeing it. If it isn't too much trouble and you could post it it would be appreciated.

Also, do you think you would need a caloric deficit to see results from this product? Would it have any use for somebody during a bulking cycle because of the site growth, or no way? Thanks.
 
speedbacker said:
Doc- I would be interested in seeing it. If it isn't too much trouble and you could post it it would be appreciated.

Also, do you think you would need a caloric deficit to see results from this product? Would it have any use for somebody during a bulking cycle because of the site growth, or no way? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Bump
 
mm107 said:
speed it looks like we are the only ones here lol
Click to expand...

MM- lol, yea, i'm very curious about this stuff. Hopefully doc will see this and respond. I've been looking as well and I haven't been able to find out what pgcl stands for either, it's bothering me, lol.
 
im intrested in this stuff. u guys seem to know alot about this. so keep talking about it. if it gets rid of fat im intrested.lol
 
nope, i'm here been checking 5 other sites.. and now will spend the next couple days doing medical research in those forums..

happy days.. i wish i had a life..
 
I can't wait to guinea pig this stuff. If I wasn't bulking right now, i'd use it now. But once it's time to lean out, i'm for sure gonna pick some up.
 
Hi Guys-Thanks for waiting! :worried:

Ok, Loads of new info.

Ive tried to distill it down into usable stuff- I get a headache reading studies!

mm107- this should answer your questions. The formula gives away the name!


Common name (±)-Cloprostenol sodium salt
Trade name Ciosin, Cyclix, Estrumate, Lutaprost, Onsett, Planate
Generic name Cloprostenol - sodium salt
Chemical name 1α(Z),2β(1E,3R*),3α,5α-(±)-7-2-4-(3-chlorophenoxy)-3-hydroxy-1-butenyl-3,5-dihydroxycyclopentyl-5-heptenoic acid, sodium salt
Synonym Sodium salt of (±)-(16-m-chlorophenoxy)-17,18,19,20-tetranor-PGF2α
CAS number 55028-72-3
EINECS number 259-439-3
Formula
Formula C22H28O6Cl · Na
Relative molecular weight 446.90

Transdermal use.. Im experimenting, and can tell you that it is readily, and very easily absorbed through the skin. It shows a great degree of promise as a topical product. As many of you have noted, the ability to disperse it evenly around troubled areas is going to be life changingly useful.

There are about 5 major ones in use ranging in potency, and specificity of binding.

Also, women(!) My studies have not produced any evidence to show any effects on the female reproductive system are permenant- Indeed, the drug is used to control fertility, not to end the possibility of it. The pain it seems women have is movement of the ovaries, and nothing more. The drug causes abortion by acting on the Corpus Luteum. However, the animals appear to be fit for the purpose afterwards. A farmer would be unwise to use an experimental drug and write off his prescious livestock...

But you are correct that pregnant women should n ot go near the stuff- but as a positive we can see just how effective the trandermal formula may be...


:rolleyes:

As for use on a bulking cycle- A lot of people have asked me about their "Paper weight" or how much in pounds they will put on. PGCL is not the worlds best bulking agent. Gains will be disapointing if you go by the scales. Calorie balance, eat as much as you like. Its the one time youll get away with it! It can be used on a bulking cycle- the real beauty of it is the fact that you just watch the lagging parts respond like never before.

Basically- Overall weight gain wont be anything to shout about, but the difference to biceps and calfs is extremely visible, whilst systemic fat loss is pronounced- Absorbtion through the skin is reputed (according to Pfizer) to cause systemic effects.

The only undesirable effect if used in conucntion with AAS is that the pumps become so severe that the lagging part gets so engorged that it wont travel through a full ROM unimpeded. Partial reps become the only option.

As for the evidence of permenant fat loss, I'm looking as we speak, and stumbled across this earlier:

Treatment of 3T3-L1 preadipocytes with arachidonic acid resulted in a dose-dependent inhibition of adipocyte differentiation. The cells failed to accumulate fat droplets and did not express stearoyl-CoA desaturase 1 mRNA, a marker for late-stage differentiation. The inhibition of differentiation was reversed by the addition of cyclooxygenase inhibitors ibuprofen or indomethacin. Inhibitors of the lipoxygenase and cytochrome P-450 epoxygenase pathways were unable to reverse the effect of arachidonic acid. Dexamethasone, one of the adipogenic agents normally used to induce differentiation, could be replaced with cyclooxygenase inhibitors in the differentiation cocktail. This implicated dexamethasone as a modulator of prostaglandin synthesis in culture. Prostaglandins F[2α] (ED[50] = 0.4 nM), E[2], and D[2] prevented differentiation, each with a specific, dose-dependent affinity. Prostaglandin F[2α] was the most potent inhibitor of differentiation, suggesting that a prostanoid FP[2] receptor (FP receptor) mediates the prostaglandin action. Fluprostenol (ED[50] = 0.3 nM), a selective FP receptor agonist, prevented differentiation, confirming the involvement of an FP receptor in the inhibition of 3T3-L1 preadipocyte differentiation. Stimulation of the FP receptor for 1 h during the first day of differentiation was sufficient to cause substantial inhibition. Endogenous PGF[2α] production was lower in differentiating cells compared to unstimulated preadipocytes. These data suggest that PGF[2α] production by preadipocytes plays a role in maintaining the undifferentiated state.

Hmmmmmm!

Also, here are some reports I mentioned:


----- Original Message -----
From:
> I wasn't fat but whatever body fat i did have is completly gone, my skin is paper thin and because ive been
> dosing my bies and tries only I can train indefinatly without
> fatigue. I started the correct dose and feel better. This is the
> most dramatic result I've ever seen in a few days. This is what six
> months of 5 ius a day of growth does.

==========================
From:Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:35

i am using 50mcg per day. i do not get any pain or swelling from injection, that is good, but i get stomach cramps, no shits,sweats 15 min after inj. today i did 80-100mcgs between 2 inj. i am very lean covered in veins already using anabolics and GH , ill keep you posted, thanks

========================================================================================

>>From:To: Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 2:44 AM Subject: Re: Hello.. I should be in single digit bodyfat club in 2 weeks, i love this PG-CL, thank you!!!

========================================================================================

From: To , Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:59 AM ,Love the PGCL!!! I'm taking 15units 37mcg three times a day. Like this > Bicep(7.5units)/Bicep(7.5units) three times a day. No sides at all little heat and some bathroom usage but not much at all! Crazy water loss my veins are comming out like I have taking a diuretic. I'm taking AAS(steroids) with this and I'm loving it.

========================================================================================

From: To: "ip" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:45 AM Subject:About PG-CL

INSANE PUMPS!! The only thing though is that you definitely want > to take on an empty stomach, as, if you don't, you're heading right > to the toilet. Also, I get a minor shortness of breath, but aside > from that, it's awesome! with in 5 minutes after injection I feel > warmer, some tingling in my stomach, the muscle swells up and STAYS > that way the fat is just MELTING off my body.

======================================================================================== From:To: ip Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 9:50 AMSubject: PCGL Results So far so good. It looks like I have lost app. 10 lbs. in one week of use. I am also using HGH 1 iu per day, 2 on 1 off, and a little testosterone, app. 200 mgs. per week. My body is changing before my eyes. The side effects are very minimal, hardly noticible for me. I am mainly using my shoulders and biceps. My shoulders are getting ripped! My arms are normally 19 inches, not growing, but they are showing more definition. I started at 13% bodyfat and I will check next week to see where it is now, but I am losing fat! No doubt about it! I made 13 redijects from my first vial and will make 10 the next time. I have not tried my chest yet, do you know if it is too close the stomach to cause problems? If not I will let you know. So far this stuff seems too good to be true.

========================================================================================

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:11 AMSubject: PGCL I would just like to say PGCL is working very well.....I can't believe how lean I'm staying and don't have to be 100% strict on my diet. It's been 2 weeks now and this is how I'm taking it.....I mix 2cc water with one amp , I take 15units (37mcg) in the morning and the same after I train. The only sides I'm getting is about 20mins after injection I must go to the restroom. My muscles are full and I'm very lean Thanks

========================================================================================

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:42 PM Subject: PGCL results so far.. currently this is my 2nd day using PGCL. . i've been dosing .5 ml on each opposite muscle, 3 x a day equaling 25mcg per side, agian 3 x a day. the side effects are no where near what you described. and at this rate i'll go through 1 amp in just over 3 days. day 4. as of yesterday morning after talking w. James Daemon i've increased the dose. first i added 1.05 ml of distilled water to one 500mcg amp. end result i came up with 7 syringes containing 0.15ml / 71.4mcg each. i take 3 syringes each day totaling a daily dose of 214mcg. i've also noticed a lot more results at this dosage, much compared to what robert had mention on your website, muscle hardness and vascularity, most likely from fat and water lose.. 3lbs i' have lost in the last 4 days in conjuction with a 3300 calorie contest diet and training regimen. side effects have increased slightly, nausea combinded with toliet useage. this is still very tolerable, and a damn vacation compared to 400 - 500mg of dnp a day. one thing i dont feel is any body heat increase or swelling of the injected muscle. in my opinion a 220lbs / 100kg bodybuilder could easily inject 1 amp in divided doses in about 2 days.

========================================================================================

From: To: "ip" Thursday, March 01, 2007 5:38 AM Subject: feedback on PGCL> 5 day 20mcgs 3 x day. bathroom probs nothing to worry bout .> really starting to see a difference. Where as gh bloats me.

========================================================================================

: From: To: ,Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:01 AM ,Subject: pgcl : The results I'm having are more like muscle hardness and vascularity's . I did one whole amp in 6 days without anything bad............ maybe have to use the restroom more but not like I thought. U feel you need 500mcg -1mg per week to get good results. Please tell me what you think Thanks very much J

www.synergy-solutions.org
 
Last edited:
From what I have seen and read is it is fucking garbage.
Guys try it think is great , then relize they are shitting their brains out ,Think the spot injections are cuasing muscle growth when it is just swelling.
3 weeks later water is back and swelling is down

Some brain had some pgf2 laying around and wanted to unload the shit on someone and who did he think was dumb enough to buy it.... bodybuilders.
 
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