PCT for turanabol cycle...

[fast_lane]

Ok
i'm 5'9"
42 years old
210 lbs
13%/fat
second oral cycle
I started a cycle of turanabol(turnaplex)5 weeks ago,planing on doing a 8 weeks cycle of it,at 40 mgs/day.I gained around 8 lbs yet and lost 2 % of fat.

My question is what kind of pct should i do for this cycle?i wanna keep the gains i've maid as much as possible.I have hcg available,but was told from guys at the gym to keep it for more imprortant cycles,and that tribulus was all i realy needed...but i did a oral winstrol cycle last year,when up to 218 lbs and lost all of it,after doing a pct with tribulus...Dont realy believe in it.
should i shoot a 250 iu twice a week of hcg as suggested in the 2008 pct sticky?Or am i good with the tribulus?

 

[cobracock1979]

clomid

 

[eddymerckx]

both good articles about the old and the new....

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/7923018-post1.html

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/8046949-post1.html

 

[Nelson Montana]

Ok
i'm 5'9"
42 years old
210 lbs
13%/fat
second oral cycle
I started a cycle of turanabol(turnaplex)5 weeks ago,planing on doing a 8 weeks cycle of it,at 40 mgs/day.I gained around 8 lbs yet and lost 2 % of fat.

My question is what kind of pct should i do for this cycle?i wanna keep the gains i've maid as much as possible.I have hcg available,but was told from guys at the gym to keep it for more imprortant cycles,and that tribulus was all i realy needed...but i did a oral winstrol cycle last year,when up to 218 lbs and lost all of it,after doing a pct with tribulus...Dont realy believe in it.
should i shoot a 250 iu twice a week of hcg as suggested in the 2008 pct sticky?Or am i good with the tribulus?

Whoever told you tribulus was all you needed was an idiot. Don't listen to them.

Wait a minute, you actually did a trib PCT and lost all your gains and you're asking once again if it's okay? What the fuck bro?

 

[dabuffguy]

Whoever told you tribulus was all you needed was an idiot. Don't listen to them.

Wait a minute, you actually did a trib PCT and lost all your gains and you're asking once again if it's okay? What the fuck bro?

word.

read the stickys about PCT in the forums. you'll learn all you need to know.

nolva/clomid, post cycle and sustain alpha (and if you want, add tribulus, but i think that stuff is total bullshit).

 

[buftup]

Whoever told you tribulus was all you needed was an idiot. Don't listen to them.

Wait a minute, you actually did a trib PCT and lost all your gains and you're asking once again if it's okay? What the fuck bro?

LOL! Will they ever learn?

 

[dabuffguy]

LOL! Will they ever learn?

C'mon, be a good bro. people are on different levels man. There are lots of people here that know way more than you or I, and there's also people that know less. And, there are the people who don't care and deal with the consequences, whether they are good or bad.

 

[fast_lane]

Whoever told you tribulus was all you needed was an idiot. Don't listen to them.

Wait a minute, you actually did a trib PCT - post cycle therapy - and lost all your gains and you're asking once again if it's okay? What the fuck bro?

What the fuck?The fuck is that maybe i took some bullshit tribulus and thats the reason it din't help me for my PCT - post cycle therapy - or maybe i should of taken more etc or even maybe it helped me but since i dont have experience in this i didn't realise it.Also i lost all my gain in my first cycle(oral winstrol) but i had to stop training for like 3 months because of a elbow injury so thats y i,m so confused regarding tribilus... [/QUOTE]

 

[fast_lane]

both good articles about the old and the new....

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/7923018-post1.html

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/8046949-post1.html

Thanks bro but i've already gone truth does articles and i find thems realy helpfull when talking about a real cycle with testosterone or some injectables etc but i'm doing an oral only cycle of 8 weeks...are thoses articles and suggestions good as well for my type of cycle?Is it realy necessary to go tru a regular pct with hcg and arimidex etc?

 

[fast_lane]

word.

read the stickys about PCT - post cycle therapy - in the forums. you'll learn all you need to know.

Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - /clomid, post cycle and sustain alpha (and if you want, add tribulus, but i think that stuff is total bullshit).

I've already when tru the stikys,but it dosent reffer to oral only cycles...Is it the same?should i do the same pct protocol anyways?

 

[whitemahon]

Thanks bro but i've already gone truth does articles and i find thems realy helpfull when talking about a real cycle with testosterone or some injectables etc but i'm doing an oral only cycle of 8 weeks...are thoses articles and suggestions good as well for my type of cycle?Is it realy necessary to go tru a regular pct with hcg and arimidex etc?

The worst side effect of gear is HPTA shutdown. All gear is suppressive. A lot of inexperienced users read drug profiles & think. . . Hey, it says this stuff is mild on the system. The sides of test are like a "6" and the sides of OT are a "2". I shouldn't really have to run PCT if I'm just running an oral should I?

YES YOU DO!

The reason people lose their gains is because you have very little natural test in your system after your cycle. Your HPTA is shut down & you need to get it jumpstarted. I'll say it again, ALL GEAR is suppressive. If you want to keep your gains, run PCT. PERIOD.

Oh yeah. . . People often get gyno after their cycle not from the gear they ran, but because they are shut down & estrogen becomes dominant. All gear can do this. Have ancilliaries on hand, and PCT in order BEFORE you start your cycle.

 

[fast_lane]

The worst side effect of gear is hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - shutdown. All gear is suppressive. A lot of inexperienced users read drug profiles & think. . . Hey, it says this stuff is mild on the system. The sides of test are like a "6" and the sides of OT are a "2". I shouldn't really have to run PCT - post cycle therapy - if I'm just running an oral should I?

YES YOU DO!

The reason people lose their gains is because you have very little natural test in your system after your cycle. Your HPTA is shut down & you need to get it jumpstarted. I'll say it again, ALL GEAR is suppressive. If you want to keep your gains, run PCT. PERIOD.

Oh yeah. . . People often get gynecomastia after their cycle not from the gear they ran, but because they are shut down & estrogen becomes dominant. All gear can do this. Have ancilliaries on hand, and PCT in order BEFORE you start your cycle.

Thanks bro this is exacly the type of answer i was looking for(clear and simple)So how much hcg? reading the literature marked on the box i should b doing like 1000 iu twice a week...And should i take some aramidex with it?Like half a mgs every 3 days ?

 

[lookinfit75]

Thanks bro this is exacly the type of answer i was looking for(clear and simple)So how much HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - ? reading the literature marked on the box i should b doing like 1000 iu twice a week...And should i take some aramidex with it?Like half a mgs every 3 days ?

First of all, I did a 12 weeks cycle with orals and multiple injectables so I don't know if what I am about to write is too much for your oral only/shorter cycle but this is what worked for me. The fact is that ALL gear shuts down your sack so regardless, you have to do something to jump start your boys who have been dormant for a while.
My PCT - post cycle therapy - :
500 IU EOD of HCG for 5 shots total (In other words 10 days so if you start on Monday, your last shot will be on Tuesday of the next week) with 20 mg ED of Tamoxifen and 50 mgs ED of Proviron for 4 weeks total did the trick for me. If the Tamoxifen turns out to be too much (it was bothering me about two weeks into it) then break up it to 10mgs in the morning and 10 mgs in the afternoon which is what I did and that helped with the vision problems. I am now at 6 weeks post cycle and two weeks post PCT and my gains stayed. As a matter of fact, I am still getting stronger (I did legs today and did 585lbsx10 on my last set of squats to the ground of course-and on Monday which was my chest day, on flat I did 405lbsx8 on my last set). I don't post those stats to brag but the point I am trying to make is that I am still getting stronger more than a month after my cycle and as a matter of fact, I am putting on mass, juice free. Of course, I am eating like a beast, sleeping enough (finally), and still taking all of my supps.
I hope this helps and good luck to you bro.

 

[NomDeGuerre]

You shouldn't need an AI for an T-bol only cycle. And for PCT I`d say 2-3 weeks of 20mg Nolvadex should do the trick. In my opinion I'd save the HCG for a heavier cycle, but to each his own.

 

[*The_West*]

First of all, I did a 12 weeks cycle with orals and multiple injectables so I don't know if what I am about to write is too much for your oral only/shorter cycle but this is what worked for me. The fact is that ALL gear shuts down your sack so regardless, you have to do something to jump start your boys who have been dormant for a while.
My PCT - post cycle therapy - :
500 IU EOD of HCG for 5 shots total (In other words 10 days so if you start on Monday, your last shot will be on Tuesday of the next week) with 20 mg ED of Tamoxifen and 50 mgs ED of Proviron for 4 weeks total did the trick for me. If the Tamoxifen turns out to be too much (it was bothering me about two weeks into it) then break up it to 10mgs in the morning and 10 mgs in the afternoon which is what I did and that helped with the vision problems. I am now at 6 weeks post cycle and two weeks post PCT and my gains stayed. As a matter of fact, I am still getting stronger (I did legs today and did 585lbsx10 on my last set of squats to the ground of course-and on Monday which was my chest day, on flat I did 405lbsx8 on my last set). I don't post those stats to brag but the point I am trying to make is that I am still getting stronger more than a month after my cycle and as a matter of fact, I am putting on mass, juice free. Of course, I am eating like a beast, sleeping enough (finally), and still taking all of my supps.
I hope this helps and good luck to you bro.

er...its clomid that gives people vision problems.
i am sooooo calling bullshit on these numbers. are you an elite powerlifter? because if you can squat 585 proper ass to ground reps 10 times, you must be able to pull off about 800 once.
just out of curiosity, what was your "12 week cycle with orals and multple injectables" and why did you use proviron in pct?

 

[ALIN]

Ok
i'm 5'9"
42 years old
210 lbs
13%/fat
second oral cycle
I started a cycle of turanabol(turnaplex)5 weeks ago,planing on doing a 8 weeks cycle of it,at 40 mgs/day.I gained around 8 lbs yet and lost 2 % of fat.

My question is what kind of pct should i do for this cycle?i wanna keep the gains i've maid as much as possible.I have hcg available,but was told from guys at the gym to keep it for more imprortant cycles,and that tribulus was all i realy needed...but i did a oral winstrol cycle last year,when up to 218 lbs and lost all of it,after doing a pct with tribulus...Dont realy believe in it.
should i shoot a 250 iu twice a week of hcg as suggested in the 2008 pct sticky?Or am i good with the tribulus?

Ive always used my CLOMID/NOLVA PCT regimen and its worked flawlessly for years. With myself and many of the athletes i train.

 

[fast_lane]

You shouldn't need an aromatase inhibitor for an T-bol only cycle. And for PCT - post cycle therapy - I`d say 2-3 weeks of 20mg Nolvadex should do the trick. In my opinion I'd save the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - for a heavier cycle, but to each his own.

I only have hcg and some aramidex so i'm going to go for that.The aomatase (aramidex)is for the hcg not the turanabol...How much hcg should i use and for how long?

 

[lookinfit75]

er...its clomid that gives people vision problems.
i am sooooo calling bullshit on these numbers. are you an elite powerlifter? because if you can squat 585 proper ass to ground reps 10 times, you must be able to pull off about 800 once.
just out of curiosity, what was your "12 week cycle with orals and multple injectables" and why did you use proviron in PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - ?

Hey it's my bud The West. I see you're having another bad at the office haha.

Anyway, I've already explained why Proviron is used in PCT and the reason why I use it; I am not the only one on this forum who uses it in this manner by the way. As a matter of fact, the info on the use of Proviron during PCT is from two sources other than my real world people. The first is Anabolics 2007 which I already quoted once in this forum. The other source is none other than Nelson Montana's Book, "Bottomline Bodybuilding". As a matter of fact, he quotes William Llewellyn in his book as well at the end of his discourse as to why Clomid is NOT a good option for PCT.
As for my cycle.... (drum role please)

Here it is:
Week 1

Test 250 (Cypionate) - 1ml Monday
Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - 300 - 1ml Friday
Boldenone 200 - 1ml Saturday
Oxandrolone - 2 pills ED
Clembuterol 2 pills (Mon-Fri)
Cynomel 1/2 pill (Mon - Fri on empty stomach in morning)

Week 2
Test 250 (Cypionate) - 1ml Mon.
Deca 300 - 1ml Mon. and Fri
Boldenone 200 - 1.5ml Sat
Oxandrolone - 4 pills (2 morning-2 afternoon)
Clem - 4 pills (2 morning-2afternoon - Mon-Fri)
Cynomel - 1/2 (same as previous week)

Week 3
Test 250 (Cypionate) - 1ml Mon
Deca 300 - 1.5ml Fri
Boldenone 200 - 1.5ml Sat
Oxandrolone - 6 pills ED (3 morning 3 afternoon)
Clem - 4 pills ED (same as prev week)
Cynomel - (Same as prev. week)

Week 4
Boldenone 200 - 1.5ml Mon
Primobolan - methenolone - (Methenolone Enanthate) - 1ml Wed
Deca 300 - 1ml Sat.
Oxandrolone - (Same as prev. week)
Clem - ( Same as prev. week)
Cynomel - 1 pill (same as prev. week)

Week 5
Primobolan - methenolone - (Methenolone Enanthate) - 1.5 ml Mon
Deca 300 - 1.5 ml Wed.
Boldenone 200 - 1 Sat.
Proviron - 3 pills ED
Clem 5 pills (3morning 2 afternoon M-F)
Cynomel 1 pill ED (same as previous week)

Week 6
Primobolan - methenolone - (Methenolone Enanthate) - 1ml Mon and Fri
Deca 300 - 1/2 ml
Boldenone 200 - 1/2 ml Sat
Cytomel - 1/2 ED (same as previous week)
Proviron - 6 pills ED (3 moring, 3 afternoon)

Weel 7
Test 100 (Propionate) - 1ml Mon and Fri
Primobolan - methenolone - (Methenolone Enanthate) - 1.5 ml sat.
Proviron - (same as prev. week)
Boldenone 200 - 1ml Sat

Week 8
Test 100 (Propionate) - 1ml Mon, Wed., and Fri.
Primo (Methenolone Enanthate) - 1.5ml Sat
Proviron - 4 pills (2 morning, 2 afternoon)
Boldenone 200 - 1ml Sat

Week 9
Test 100 (Propionate) - (Same as previous week)
Primo (Methenolone Enanthate) - 1.5 ml Wed
Boldenone 200 - 1ml. Sat.
Proviron (Same as prev. week)

Week 10
Test 250 (Sustanon) - 1ml Mon
Boldenone 200 - 1ml Wed and Fri
Proviron - (Same as previous week)
Oxan. - 4 pills (2x2 split)

Week 11
Test 250 (Sustanon) - Wed
Boldenone 200 - 1ml Mon and Wed
Oxandrolone - 6 pills ED
Proviron - (same as prev. week)
Tamoxifen - 20mg ED

Week 12
Test 250 (Sustanon) - 1ml Mon
Boldenone 200 - 1ml Fri
Oxandrolone - 4 pills ED
Tamoxifen - (same as previous week)

Proviron pills come in 25mg/pill - Cytomel pills come in 25mcgs/pill - Oxandrolone pills come in 5 mg/pill - Clembuterol (Oxyflux) comes in .02mg/pill
As for me being an elite powerlifter.... nah. The only thing I am elite at is my given profession but I will say that I've always been a strong fellow. Before I started my cycle I was already squating 455lbs for reps and benching 315 for reps as well and like I've said in the past, I was a big (but still very active)dude for a long time which is what I atribute my storng legs to. When I started dieting and exercising I was 340 lbs (that was Nov. of last year). I got down to 322lbs (35% BF)with a fairly clean Atkins type diet and then decided I wanted more so I talked to my buddies and they hooked me up. I am now 280lbs (as of yesterday) and the last time I check my BF is at 18%. I have 19.5" arms, 17.25" forearms, 19" neck, 33" thighs, 56" chest and 44" waist (it used to be 54).

Anyway, tear up my cycle all you want. The bottom line is that is the cycle I did and those are results I got from it. I am healthy, levels are all fine and like I said, I am still getting stronger every week. If you don't like it, tough. You can't please everyone in this world but seriously, enough with the swearing. I am all for open dialogue but saying "I sooooo calling bullshit" (that is sooooooo childish by the way) and insinuating that I a liar is not the way to have an open and intelectual conversation about ANYTHING let alone a heated subject like this one. As a matter of fact, it's a good way to keep people from paying for membship into the forum. I sure as hell don't want to pay to be insulted in a place where I am looking for answers.

Have a great day West because I sure did.
Lookfit75

 

[*The_West*]

alright, keep your dick in your pants. i just struggle to believe that you can squat 585 as to the ground for ten reps. im not saying its impossible, only that anyone who can is looking at around about an 800, if not more, 1rm, putting them in about the top 5% of powerlifters, man, if your figures are real you could be winning powerlifting meets. maybe even doing strongman comps.
why would i tear up your cycle? i dont the like the fact that it keeps chopping and changing compounds and some of them, imo, arent being run for long enough, but hey, its your cycle.
and you still havnt actually explained why you use proviron in pct. i would be genuinely interested to know why, seeing as it has no ability to help restore your body's endogenous test production?

 

[cobracock1979]

+1 why prov?

 

[lookinfit75]

alright, keep your dick in your pants. i just struggle to believe that you can squat 585 as to the ground for ten reps. im not saying its impossible, only that anyone who can is looking at around about an 800, if not more, 1rm, putting them in about the top 5% of powerlifters, man, if your figures are real you could be winning powerlifting meets. maybe even doing strongman comps.
why would i tear up your cycle? i dont the like the fact that it keeps chopping and changing compounds and some of them, imo, arent being run for long enough, but hey, its your cycle.
and you still havnt actually explained why you use proviron in PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - . i would be genuinely interested to know why, seeing as it has no ability to help restore your body's endogenous test production?

OK, since you don't want to read what I have written in the past, here we go again. For the record, my Johnson was never out because that is just not my style. And another thing, In the short time I've been on God's green earth I've learned that anything is possible.

Now, back to "Anabolics 2007" by Adrew Llewellyn:
And I quote...
When looking for a stronger anti-estrogenic effect, Proviron can make a good adjunct to Nolvadex. Although this compound is technically an adrogen, it may have a pronounced effect on the production of estrogen in the body. It's mode of action is therefore very different than that of Nolvadex. While Nolvadex only blocks the binding ability of free-floating estrogen, Proviron can minimize the creation of it. When each drug attacking estrogen via different a mechanism, we have a synergistic combination. A daily intake of 20-30 mg Nolvadex and 25-50 mgs of Proviron can be extremely effective when dealing with with a strong estrogenic cycle.
And for the ladies reading...
Women often avoid adding Proviron to Nolvadex treatment (though often it is still used to enhance fat loss) for fear of developing virilization symptoms (Proviron is an oral dihydrotestosterone). Virilization effects can occur very quickly once there has been a dramatic rise in the activity of androgens (intensified by a decrease in estrogen activity), so at a minimum women should be very careful with this combination.
End quote.

From our friend Nelson Montana's Book "Bottomline Bodybuilding" we have this gem in the section entitled "IF YOU MUST"

And I quote:
When it comes to anti-estrogens, the best bet may be not in occupying the receptor sites, as does Clomid, but to compete with the testosterone/estrogen balance. At one time, Proviron was deemed a valid choice as an anti-estrogen agent until some of the sophomoric steroid students argued that it didn't have any direct anti-estrogenic
properties. True, but it still looks as if it's the best choice if you feel the need to guard against estrogen build up. It does so because dihydrotestosterone acts as a gynecomastia antagonist. (Yet another thing that has been oddly overlooked.) Even when dihydrotestosterone is applied topically it's been shown to reduce gynecomastia in cases where the gynecomastia hadn't been a chronic condition.
Beyond the direct effect of dihydrotestosterone, Proviron has distinct benefits, the first being that as a derivative of dihydrotestosterone it isn't capable of forming estrogen, yet it has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than does testosterone. That means administering it with another aromatizable compound will
prevent estrogen build up due to the fact that DHT binds to the aromatase enzyme so strongly. There's also been some suggestion that Proviron may downgrade the actual estrogen receptor, thereby making it twice as effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels. And because DHT has such a high affinity for sex hormone binding globulin it leaves more free testosterone to impart its anabolic effects.
It makes sense that the use of Proviron is a more practical and rational method of dealing with the possibility of excess estrogen than the aforementioned method of attempting to add a weaker estrogen in the hopes that it will prevent aromatization.
In other words, the World Anabolic Reference was right when it stated;
"Proviron cures the problem of aromatization at the root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms. "
Proviron in moderate doses has been shown to be remarkably safe and free of side effects in most men. If you must use an anti-estrogen, Proviron is the way go.
End quote.

 

[*The_West*]

alright mr cut and paste.
do you realise that none of that has anything whatsoever to do with proviron being used as a pct drug? those studies refer to proviron's use for on cycle estrogen control.
i asked you why you use proviron in pct, this does not answer that question. and would you mind coming up with your own answer, rather than just copying and pasting someone elses?

 

[lookinfit75]

alright mr cut and paste.
do you realise that none of that has anything whatsoever to do with proviron being used as a PCT - post cycle therapy - drug? those studies refer to proviron's use for on cycle estrogen control.
i asked you why you use proviron in PCT , this does not answer that question. and would you mind coming up with your own answer, rather than just copying and pasting someone elses?

Actually it wasn't cut and paste (I had to type most of that stuff in beacuse I own the hard cover copy of Anabolics '07 and waste aware that you could copy and paste from a PDF). Furthermore, since you asked me where I was getting my information from or better said, what evidence I had to substanciate my premise, instead of paraphrasing, I opted to give you the information as I learned it straight from the source in it's unadulterated form. I am sorry if you object to that but my way, there is no room for confusion, or so I thought. I didn't realize it would merit another nickname.

This is cut and paste though:

Proviron in moderate doses has been shown to be remarkably safe and free of side effects in most men.

Since you want my answer, here it is:

What is one of the major side effects of an extended steriod cycle and fundamental reason for a PCT? If you guessed "Supression of the hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - " then, as in the imoratal words of Johnny Carson's sidekick Ed McMann "You sir, are correct!". So if Proviron in low doses is safe and free of side effects in most men and given the other atributes it has in terms of control over estrogen production (not by binding to estrogen receptors as is the case with Nolvadex and Clomid but actually controlling the production of estrogen by antagonizing the aromatase enzyme - the aromatase enzme coverts androgens [androgen meaning either natrually occuring or sythetic testosterone hormone] to estrogens by a process called aromatization) and it's high affinity for plasma binding protiens such as sex hormone binding globulin which in turn allow for more unbound testosterone in the blood stream, wouldn't it be a logical conclusion that the addition of Proviron to one's PCT would be a suitible and inteligent addition to said PCT?