Over 60 and ready to get big

[adatudz]

Ok, before you tear me a new a hole.....
Let me explain. i have been hanging around gyms for 25 years with little success except some good results 10 years ago with Body for Life.

Now, my doc, due to low testosterone with side effects ( lethargy, anxiety, and yes hot flashes ) put me on Androgel, a Testosterone replacement, I take the max and my T levels ( i am 61) are 800 which is satisfactory.

Ever since I have been on the replacement I have a newfound love for the iron.

I weigh 180 lbs, 5ft 11, body fat is 24 ( yuk) and I eat 40% protein, 40 % carbs and 10% fat,.

I am on no meds except a cholestol---now 148.

I was told that Clenbuterol and Winstrol would assist, and not interfere with T replacement.

OK, maybe I am being a fool for wanting to take roids, and I am sure you folks will tell me that.

What would be recommended for a guy like me who is devoted now in the last 90 days to bb and want significant body changes....Would steroids be an option. I respect you folks a lot and would value hearing from you!!!!

Love to have your feedback on this.

 

[GDF]

At your age I probably would not touch clenbuterol or winstrol. I would think a small dose of injectable test would probably be your best option. Clen can tear your heart muscle and winstrol will dry the shit out of your joints. Not sure if that is what you are looking for, but my guess would be no.

 

[adatudz]

Hmmm,,,, I am already getting the max of Androgel,,,,but need something else, I believe...Any suggestions of what would work to add some mass. I hear you about Clen and Winstrol.. your response which i appreciate sort of indicates that steroids would not be good for a guy over 60. Am I not reading that correctly?

 

[timtim]

sorry to say but you have really missed the boat on mass gaining. why not dedicate yourself to great health and a low bodyfat level.

 

[sweed]

I think 800 for test levels is pretty darn good!
I will let some of the vets help ya out. I would stay away frm the clen and winny as well.

 

[adatudz]

Thanks, thanks, i am sure some of the old vets will answer.
I do not expect to get to be tremendous, not my intention, but looking for some sort of roid that will help with bodyfat and put on muscle. I hate to think that I am totally over the hill and nothing would work..Looks like Winsrol and Clen are out though? right?

 

[HAYEZ]

i think you are asking for trouble...i would focus on cardio and light weights...the way steroids make us younger people feel i oculdnt imagine a older person taking them wihtout thge conditioning that most of us have prior to aas

 

[Nelson Montana]

At age 60, Primo is the only roid I'd use. If you're 5'11" 180 with 20% bf you need to alter your fat/muscle ratio. Maybe training with a higher T will get you in that direction. If you're 20+ bf you're eating too much crap. Forget clen. Eat less. TRain more. And then some Primo with extra protein will put on some clean mass, but you can only go so far once you've given your body set point at such a low weight with a high bf.

 

[joe d]

Ok, before you tear me a new a hole.....
Let me explain. i have been hanging around gyms for 25 years with little success except some good results 10 years ago with Body for Life.

Now, my doc, due to low testosterone with side effects ( lethargy, anxiety, and yes hot flashes ) put me on Androgel, a Testosterone replacement, I take the max and my T levels ( i am 61) are 800 which is satisfactory.

Ever since I have been on the replacement I have a newfound love for the iron.

I weigh 180 lbs, 5ft 11, body fat is 24 ( yuk) and I eat 40% protein, 40 % carbs and 10% fat,.

I am on no meds except a cholestol---now 148.

I was told that Clenbuterol and Winstrol would assist, and not interfere with T replacement.

OK, maybe I am being a fool for wanting to take roids, and I am sure you folks will tell me that.

What would be recommended for a guy like me who is devoted now in the last 90 days to bb and want significant body changes....Would steroids be an option. I respect you folks a lot and would value hearing from you!!!!

Love to have your feedback on this.

just work with your doc. and stay healthy. dont play around with cycling now. you will regret it.

 

[Para_Shoot]

I don't quite understand how your 5'11", 180lbs and 24% body fat. Before my total transformation, I too was 5'11" 269 lbs, 40" waist and my bodyfat percentage was right around 26%. Back in my drum playing hair band days I weighed 180 and I looked anarexic thin.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

If your dead set on it, I would say a very small amount of injectable test would be the thing. Using winstrol and clen would be an extremely BAD idea for your health. especially the clen. I am 33 and I would never ever touch clen.
Nelson is right. You need to alter your muscle/fat ratio big time. Lighter weights and higher reps with shorter rests between sets will make you grow. But be healthier for your heart and body then real heavy weights will be at this point. Nothing stresses the body like heavy BB rows, squats and deadlifts.

 

[adatudz]

Well, most people would say that I look fine, but I don.t look fine. I have a 36 waist, which I detest, but I have never known anything but that--kind of a pear shaped guy....endomorph...I was at my new gym and the trainer took the devise and took my body fat. I have been eating protein rich, moderate carbs, and low fats ( no carbs) after 600, using my Skip La Cour tapes for motivation and hitting the gym hard for the last month. The bf has come down I am sure, becasue my clothes fit better.
I was a horrible eater, and the only time I felt good what about 6 years ago when I did do Body for Life and looked better. But I forgot my focus and went back to old habits. This time it is for real....Yea you men and women have heard that before, but I want to be the best fit guy I can possibllly be......I do appreciate folks answering this post.

 

[big bomber]

having 800 test level is pretty stellar man, u will be able to make pretty good gains! i agree with nelson, stick to high reps to help get rid of some fat, try some cardio as well..btw stay away from the clen and winstrol at ur age, i think it would be more harm than good. sounds like u are already on the gel, but if u are wanting to get into anabolics u doc will prescribe some test for ya considering u are already on the gel..just keep at it man, and welcome!

 

[adatudz]

I appreciate u guys being honest with me....I will not do Clen or Winstol and once the gel runs out, as I have a 4 month supply, the doc is going to put me on the injectilbe T, mostly because the gel produces a slight rash, but I feel like a new man on this gel . I will be splitting my routine 4 times a week, concentrating on different body parts, sticking with my bb diet and water, and working through this book by Skip La Cour, called Thinking Big which addressed the mindset of going to the gym and winning. For me it is to start to identify myself as a bb, no matter where I am in the process. I always looked at you guys and never identified because you were always so much more advanced which gave me persmission to resist and give up. That victim mindset has gone, and Skip, the Tony Robbins of bb, has helped me with that.

 

[straitedge52]

I will share my experience with you and maybe it will help your focus and thought process.

I will turn 57 next week. I started my turn around earlier this year (Jan/Feb) by visiting an orthopedic Doc because my knees were kiling me. I am 6"-2" and was at 304 lbs BMI was 32% with a 44" waist and was miserable. I had torn miniscus in both knees. While I was in the treatment room waiting for the Doc I noticed via some litterature that he had branched his practice into wellness, anti aging and HRT. I asked him if I was a candidate since I was overweight, no drive and felt like shit all the time.

He performed the blood and saliva test and while I waited on the results (2 weeks) I went to my cardiologist and had the whole cardiac work up including a stress test which kicked my ass. All of the cardiac checked out ok and the blood/saliva test indicated that I was ok on cholesterol/tryglyceride but my Testosterone was in the low/normal range. I think around 480+/-. My wellness Doc had put me on a handfull of nutriceuticals to take daily and he started injecting me every week with Testosterone Cypionate 200mg. I did this for a month and ran more blood and he changed to every other week with the Test.

After 3~4 days passed with the initial injection I felt the surge. I started going to the gym 3x a week and after 8 weeks I started seeing results. I started whey protien powder and added some NOX supplement. By late July I had dropped my weight to 265 , waist to 40" and BMI to 25% !! In early August my Doc and I agreed that I should start injecting myself and sent me home with the vial and hardware for ten injections. I went back to 1x week and am now injecting every 5 days. I think I am getting close to the "sweet spot" for me.

My knee problems have almost gone away completely and I look forward to gym visits and have a much better outlook on life. The goals I have set for myself are realistic I feel for my age. I am resolved that I can't achieve the big mass that a serious "cycle" would produce. What I can do however is use the technology and knowledge that I am gaining with this site to shape my body to look and feel the best I can. One of the tricks that I have found is the ability to direct development in certain areas that I feel need work.

To that end I have started using only a teaspoon of creatine mixed in with my protien shake along with a small amount of Cytocarb powder about an hour prior to workout. For post workout I have another protien shake with Cytocarb within an hour while I am still pumped.
This set up opens my blood vessles and muscle fibres during my work out and feeds that protien and amino acids straight to the muscle cells. The post work out drink continues to feed the cells at a time when they are screaming for food/nutrients. The Testosterone is accelerating the mucle cell repair and growth. The pumps I get with the creatine are pretty significant compared to without it. It doesn't take much.

Guys like us have to be very aware of changes and side effects when doing this stuff. I have started taking an estrogen blocker because accordingly at some point the Testosterone can convert to estrogen and it causes negative things that you can read about elsewhere on this site.

In summary, my short term goal is to get my waist to 36", BMI to 15% and weight down to around 225~230. The weight may seem heavy but I know I have a heavy frame and to me the weight is not as much a measure of fitness as is that waist size and the BMI %. Diet has become something that I am focusing on and I know that the changes that I am making now must become prmanent ones. The amount of weight I am using in my excercises is not as important as the ability to add small increases while maintaining proper form and execution of each rep. I know one of my measures of success is the ability to do Roman Chair "dips", 3: sets of 10. When I was playing football in High School and again when I was in great shape in my mid-thirties I could do it. I'm not there yet but know I will be soon.

Hopefully some of this helps put some perspective on this for you. I read alot of stuff on this site and try to learn something new every day.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I will share my experience with you and maybe it will help your focus and thought process.

I will turn 57 next week. I started my turn around earlier this year (Jan/Feb) by visiting an orthopedic Doc because my knees were kiling me. I am 6"-2" and was at 304 lbs BMI was 32% with a 44" waist and was miserable. I had torn miniscus in both knees. While I was in the treatment room waiting for the Doc I noticed via some litterature that he had branched his practice into wellness, anti aging and HRT. I asked him if I was a candidate since I was overweight, no drive and felt like shit all the time.

He performed the blood and saliva test and while I waited on the results (2 weeks) I went to my cardiologist and had the whole cardiac work up including a stress test which kicked my ass. All of the cardiac checked out ok and the blood/saliva test indicated that I was ok on cholesterol/tryglyceride but my Testosterone was in the low/normal range. I think around 480+/-. My wellness Doc had put me on a handfull of nutriceuticals to take daily and he started injecting me every week with Testosterone Cypionate 200mg. I did this for a month and ran more blood and he changed to every other week with the Test.

After 3~4 days passed with the initial injection I felt the surge. I started going to the gym 3x a week and after 8 weeks I started seeing results. I started whey protien powder and added some NOX supplement. By late July I had dropped my weight to 265 , waist to 40" and BMI to 25% !! In early August my Doc and I agreed that I should start injecting myself and sent me home with the vial and hardware for ten injections. I went back to 1x week and am now injecting every 5 days. I think I am getting close to the "sweet spot" for me.

My knee problems have almost gone away completely and I look forward to gym visits and have a much better outlook on life. The goals I have set for myself are realistic I feel for my age. I am resolved that I can't achieve the big mass that a serious "cycle" would produce. What I can do however is use the technology and knowledge that I am gaining with this site to shape my body to look and feel the best I can. One of the tricks that I have found is the ability to direct development in certain areas that I feel need work.

To that end I have started using only a teaspoon of creatine mixed in with my protien shake along with a small amount of Cytocarb powder about an hour prior to workout. For post workout I have another protien shake with Cytocarb within an hour while I am still pumped.
This set up opens my blood vessles and muscle fibres during my work out and feeds that protien and amino acids straight to the muscle cells. The post work out drink continues to feed the cells at a time when they are screaming for food/nutrients. The Testosterone is accelerating the mucle cell repair and growth. The pumps I get with the creatine are pretty significant compared to without it. It doesn't take much.

Guys like us have to be very aware of changes and side effects when doing this stuff. I have started taking an estrogen blocker because accordingly at some point the Testosterone can convert to estrogen and it causes negative things that you can read about elsewhere on this site.

In summary, my short term goal is to get my waist to 36", BMI to 15% and weight down to around 225~230. The weight may seem heavy but I know I have a heavy frame and to me the weight is not as much a measure of fitness as is that waist size and the BMI %. Diet has become something that I am focusing on and I know that the changes that I am making now must become prmanent ones. The amount of weight I am using in my excercises is not as important as the ability to add small increases while maintaining proper form and execution of each rep. I know one of my measures of success is the ability to do Roman Chair "dips", 3: sets of 10. When I was playing football in High School and again when I was in great shape in my mid-thirties I could do it. I'm not there yet but know I will be soon.

Hopefully some of this helps put some perspective on this for you. I read alot of stuff on this site and try to learn something new every day.

Thats good shit man!!

Dont go overboard on the AI though. You NEED some estrogen in there to balance things out.

 

[advanced-stealth]

At 24% bf worry more on doing cardio and a clean diet.

 

[Dial_tone]

Cut your carbs, raise your fat with healthy fats, Omega-3's.

 

[iron asylum]

I see that nobody has mentioned any kind of HGH. I would think that might be a good addition to testosterone and know that many rejuvination clinics use this method.

 

[perryscoon]

First of all congratulations on feeling better and getting yourself some probably well needed testosterone. I'm guessing you are reaping the sexual benefits of it as well? hehe

Like others have said, I would work on getting your body fat down a little first before you go all out with the muscle gaining. But, when you do, I would think that a combination of any of the following with testosterone would be good for you: Deca, Primo, & HGH.

At your age I would stay away from most of the other steroids and especially Clen. NO Clen for you young man!

 

[adatudz]

You guys rock.....I thought I would not be welcomed here since I am old and a new bodybuilder, Kind of had the feeling I would be ignored, but I appreciate your help. If only I could find a kick ass trainer in Baltimore, I think I could make real good progress, as the trainer at the gym looks a little chubby to me....not someone I want to emulate. If anybody knows a good Baltmore trainer who would take on an old fuck like me, send them my way....
I guess I will not take any roids. I must admit I am a bit disappointeed, but maybe I will work harder without the assistance. But I admit the bb men I admire are like you guys, who know how to do the juice with good affects.

 

[RADAR]

Ok, before you tear me a new a hole.....
Let me explain. i have been hanging around gyms for 25 years with little success except some good results 10 years ago with Body for Life.

Now, my doc, due to low testosterone with side effects ( lethargy, anxiety, and yes hot flashes ) put me on Androgel, a Testosterone replacement, I take the max and my T levels ( i am 61) are 800 which is satisfactory.

Ever since I have been on the replacement I have a newfound love for the iron.

I weigh 180 lbs, 5ft 11, body fat is 24 ( yuk) and I eat 40% protein, 40 % carbs and 10% fat,.

I am on no meds except a cholestol---now 148.

I was told that Clenbuterol and Winstrol would assist, and not interfere with T replacement.

OK, maybe I am being a fool for wanting to take roids, and I am sure you folks will tell me that.

What would be recommended for a guy like me who is devoted now in the last 90 days to bb and want significant body changes....Would steroids be an option. I respect you folks a lot and would value hearing from you!!!!

Love to have your feedback on this.

Welcome to Elite my friend,we have a forum for people just like you -join us here

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/life-extension-andropause-masters-bodybuilding/




RADAR

 

[adatudz]

Thanks Radar....found my way to the forum you suggested.
I did contact a Life Extension place who has set me up with blood tests, and possible Testosterone shots, estrogen blocker and some Deca, although the Deca kind of scares me because I have heard that Deca can produce great anxiety, one of the reasons I am zapping up my Testosterone level...With low T, I has anxiety big time, something I never had in my youth. i am also on Lamictal, a mood stabilizer,100mg ( low dose)

Sorry, I posted this on another question, but I did not think it worked ( some computer problems on my end)

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I dont think you "shouldnt" take any AAS. But if your a noob to lifting, especially at your age, then just be careful and get a good base going first. Get your body/muscles/tendons used to the stress. Build some mass naturally first. I think at that point some low dose test would do miracles for you. I believe HGH was mentioned in this thread also.
I have never heard of deca giving anxiety though? Again, anything is possible but I dont think you would get it from deca. Deca is an awsome AAS. Its yum yum good for your joints too. Again, you dont need a ton to see results.

 

[adatudz]

Yea, on Thursday I get the blood work to see if I am a candidate for TRT, although, I sure i will be. But, if the Deca is an option too, I am going to go for it. I am determined to get big, and my dream is to at least before I die compete in one contest. I know that may sound foolish, and I am sensitive to this because a few men ( not on this site) have written me and told me that it is too Late to accomplish anything at my age in bodybuilding (61). That not only pisses me off, it makes me more determined to do it. Love to find a hard core bodybuilder in Baltimore to mentor me. I will show all those fuckers who said I am a has been how much of a has been I am not. And if I have to get some extra help to do it, so be it.

My entire life I have been stuck with body image problems, and I have to do 3 things before I die
- have an awesome body
- play the guitar really fine
- have a great relationship

 

[joe d]

just stick with the trt. running cycles will ruin you. if the doc doesnt prescribe it to you dont do it.

im not trying to make you mad like your friends did but as much as you and some others refuse to belive it. the lifestyle you are after is an unhealthy one. intense training is bad for you. it will damage your organs. healthy exercize and diet is where i would be focusing if it was me.

 

[Nelson Montana]

just stick with the trt. running cycles will ruin you. if the doc doesnt prescribe it to you dont do it.

im not trying to make you mad like your friends did but as much as you and some others refuse to belive it. the lifestyle you are after is an unhealthy one. intense training is bad for you. it will damage your organs. healthy exercize and diet is where i would be focusing if it was me.

Props to joe d. Dropped 20 pounds and bf on LESS gear. Nice work bro.

 

[adatudz]

just stick with the trt. running cycles will ruin you. if the doc doesnt prescribe it to you dont do it.

im not trying to make you mad like your friends did but as much as you and some others refuse to belive it. the lifestyle you are after is an unhealthy one. intense training is bad for you. it will damage your organs. healthy exercize and diet is where i would be focusing if it was me.

I appreciate your comment, but the doctor is going to prescribe this to me. I am spending 400 bucks on blood work. I realize that for me, I need a doctor to prescribe, I am not that well versed on the subject to give an intelligent answer, but I will for one thing certain weigh my options. I am working out 3-4 times a week for an intense hour, and doing aerobics at least 4 times a week for 45 minutes, so that is certainly not unhealthy.

If i was a young buck like most on here, then we would be singing a different tune. I am not foolish enough to think that I will ever look like some of the men on here, but I can be the best that I can be with what I have.

 

[doublebicep]

adatudz - welcome from a fellow middle age member and great questions!

 

[joe d]

I appreciate your comment, but the doctor is going to prescribe this to me. I am spending 400 bucks on blood work. I realize that for me, I need a doctor to prescribe, I am not that well versed on the subject to give an intelligent answer, but I will for one thing certain weigh my options. I am working out 3-4 times a week for an intense hour, and doing aerobics at least 4 times a week for 45 minutes, so that is certainly not unhealthy.

If i was a young buck like most on here, then we would be singing a different tune. I am not foolish enough to think that I will ever look like some of the men on here, but I can be the best that I can be with what I have.

well that sounds better. your post about people telling you you where to old had me thinking you where about to go all out with no regard. ant that would have had devistating effects. good luck to you on your quest.

 

[joe d]

Props to joe d. Dropped 20 pounds and bf on LESS gear. Nice work bro.

thank you nelson. i am actually a lot lighter now with a bit more muscle loss. but health is still moving forward.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

thank you nelson. i am actually a lot lighter now with a bit more muscle loss. but health is still moving forward.

Glad to hear your health is improving bro.

 

[lookinfit75]

thank you nelson. i am actually a lot lighter now with a bit more muscle loss. but health is still moving forward.

Glad to hear you are healthier. What happened to you that made you stop juicing and lose weight? Liver probs? Heart problems? It's sound like you are advising this brother about the organ damage from personal experience and I think it's great that you are willing to be talk about the other side of this lifestyle.

 

[ftwjason]

If you test levels are 800 did they test your free test levels--if the longevity you went to is like most of the others you will qualify for TRT as would a 30 Y/O male with normal levels on everything. Their prices are a little bit higher and you have to buy everything from them but at least you know what you get is good. I would let your local general prac. doc know everything you are doing.

 

[joe d]

Glad to hear you are healthier. What happened to you that made you stop juicing and lose weight? Liver probs? Heart problems? It's sound like you are advising this brother about the organ damage from personal experience and I think it's great that you are willing to be talk about the other side of this lifestyle.

my heart was inlarged. well it still is but not nearly as bad. my doctor says that a heart attack or stroke was in my near futute. not to mention that i was already on blood thinners to begin with. he told me the reason was my size and over all life style. the solution if my heart could be repaired was the meds he gave me and i had to drop about 75lbs. i also had to start eating far differently. i cut my diet in half and fats almost out completely. my heart is going back to normal so recovery is promising but the hard core bb'ing lifestyle is done forever. my family is way to important for me to die before 35.

i pushed everything to the max. training 2x per day 4x per wk, 3g of gear ew, 7000-8000 cals ed, elaborate fascia stretches you name it i did it. with my 2x per month doctor visit as a safety net i almost felt like i was imortal like i was cheating and getting away with it. then the bomb dropped and i imediately knew how stupid i was. thank god i got a second chance.