On Androgel but still want to have kids; what are my alternatives?

[Lumberg]

So I'm 37 and haven't had kids. Have very low test and went on 2 pumps Androgel 1.62% per day. The results are amazing. I think I've had low test all my life because I'm more confident than I've ever felt. Less anxiety, able to socialize better, starting to really show my stuff at work, that kind of thing.

Saw my endo last week, my test is at 788 (he has me test in the morning AFTER a dose--don't most tell you to skip the morning's dose before a blood test?). He says LH and FSH are close to zero, but if you still want to have kids, you'll have to try to get your body's production to turn back on. So he told me to drop down to 1 pump per day.

I feel TERRIBLE. Listless, nervous. I actually had a panic attack today. Feel paranoid, like innocent things or normal developments at work that I disagree with are actually somehow targeted toward me or signal me getting fired. Just crazy thoughts, which I used to have before I started the Androgel. (I'm convinced I've always had low test, it just got REALLY low in my 30s due to stress and maybe lots of drug/alcohol abuse contributed to it. I'm clean now)

Anyway I'm not sure if I can take this. It's awful and it's only been 5 days.

Are there tricks to not going sterile while being on TRT? Or being able to turn sperm production back on when I'm ready to have kids (dating a great girl now but not ready to have kids)? Freezing my swimmers?

Help! I know this is a slow board but this is the only place I could think of to turn. Thanks.

 

[Labtec70]

Hi Lumberg

What a dilemma!

I take it you are secondary hypogonadal?

Providing you don't abuse therapy and you stick to therapeutic amounts, there's no reason why you cannot continue therapy until you settle down and decide to have children. Let me put it another way:

Loads of guys on here take way in excess of therapeutic amounts. However, with proper PCT like Clomid, HCG, (and some of the excellent supplements available through EF) these same lifters are able to restore their size (in the baggage department) and fertility 100%, quite often after years and years of cycling.

If you truly feel the awful effects of low T on your present lowered doseage you maybe should return to the 2-pumps a day and speak with your doctor again. With everything equal, and assuming your condition is similar to other guys on therapy for Primary or Secondary Hypogonadism, I cannot see a reason why your fertility can't be restored when you decide to try for kids. Moreover, gels and patches, in 1-2% compounds, don't have the same potency or impact on the testes and secretion of testosterone, as with injectable formulas.

Again, I'd urge you to see your doctor asap if the dose is making you feel ill.

Good luck!

 

[Zyglamail]

The simple truth of the matter is that while on TRT your testis are going to shut down. That being said, even while on TRT, HCG use can get them working again. Many TRY docs recommend HCG use 2x a week at 250IU just to keep the testis atrophy to a minimum. If your goal is to someday have kids I would ask your endo to research supplementing your TRT with HCG, HMG or both. Then when the time comes to have kids you can up the HCG dose or frequency a tad and you shouldnt have problems.

As for your T dose, one pump or 2 isnt going to matter, a few months at either dose is going to net you the same FSH/LH readings of basically zero. So with that in mind I would go for the test dose where you feel good and is still safe (ie rest of labs arent too elevated).

 

[FattyMcGillicutty]

Yes, talk to your doctor. HCG is the go to therapy when maintaining fertility. I was subfertile and now over 60mil count with a pause in treatment, and did a PCT type regimine of clomid and hcg. Now I continue with 200mgT per week and HCG 2x a week.

We are actively trying, so the week before and the week of party time(lots of free sex) I take a daily 200IU. It's still cheaper for me to order my HCG online than through my doc but I know it's good, it's the exact same stuff I get from the pharm far as I can tell and my fertility tests confirm.

 

[Lumberg]

First of all thanks to both of you guys. I wasn't able to log in for a while cos I changed email addresses and the verification email went to my new email's spam folder. Got it all worked out. Zyg I'm gonna spread karma so I can give you more, fatty, you got karma bro.

Zygla, I'm curious about this:

As for your T dose, one pump or 2 isnt going to matter, a few months at either dose is going to net you the same FSH/LH readings of basically zero.

Even if the one pump makes my natural T level less than 400? On two pumps I am at 788 so he said that's high, if we half the dosage we should get your testes to start picking up the slack. is this simply not true?

Once again, Zygla, you are the life blood of this forum. Thanks for all your work bro. And fatty I've seen you around and you're a good bro, too. If you guys drink, I owe you guys some rounds.

 

[thelion2005]

So I'm 37 and haven't had kids. Have very low test and went on 2 pumps Androgel 1.62% per day. The results are amazing. I think I've had low test all my life because I'm more confident than I've ever felt. Less anxiety, able to socialize better, starting to really show my stuff at work, that kind of thing.

Saw my endo last week, my test is at 788 (he has me test in the morning AFTER a dose--don't most tell you to skip the morning's dose before a blood test?). He says LH and FSH are close to zero, but if you still want to have kids, you'll have to try to get your body's production to turn back on. So he told me to drop down to 1 pump per day.

I feel TERRIBLE. Listless, nervous. I actually had a panic attack today. Feel paranoid, like innocent things or normal developments at work that I disagree with are actually somehow targeted toward me or signal me getting fired. Just crazy thoughts, which I used to have before I started the Androgel. (I'm convinced I've always had low test, it just got REALLY low in my 30s due to stress and maybe lots of drug/alcohol abuse contributed to it. I'm clean now)

Anyway I'm not sure if I can take this. It's awful and it's only been 5 days.

Are there tricks to not going sterile while being on TRT? Or being able to turn sperm production back on when I'm ready to have kids (dating a great girl now but not ready to have kids)? Freezing my swimmers?

Help! I know this is a slow board but this is the only place I could think of to turn. Thanks.

I see no connection bwteen a low sperm count and this very mild amount of testo topical you are applying. Some of my kids were conceived during cycles.

Recommend you bump back to your feel good amount and have a sperm count done.

 

[Lumberg]

I see no connection bwteen a low sperm count and this very mild amount of testo topical you are applying. Some of my kids were conceived during cycles.

Recommend you bump back to your feel good amount and have a sperm count done.

I believe that if you supplement enough to shut down your natural production (which I have) for long enough (now that I'm on TRT, it's officially lifelong), ALL of the testes' functions deteriorate. The body realizes there's no need for them and they atrophy.

So even though the testes' testosterone producing function is what's not needed, all functions shut down, thus sperm count drops.

 

[Zyglamail]

Its all about homeostasis and what your body thinks is normal. If normal for your body is a test level of 300 and you start taking in exo test (cream or injection) that level will rise and in turn your natural production will decrease. If the external dose you are taking puts you at 400, then that plus your 300 puts you at 700, which is 400 more than what your body thinks is normal so your natty production will be stopped.

My guess is your natural levels were a lot lower than 400 or you wouldnt be on trt so that being said if 1 pump puts you at 400 your body will shut down natty production in time.

Obviously the above is an oversimplification but makes the point.

 

[Lumberg]

Its all about homeostasis and what your body thinks is normal. If normal for your body is a test level of 300 and you start taking in exo test (cream or injection) that level will rise and in turn your natural production will decrease. If the external dose you are taking puts you at 400, then that plus your 300 puts you at 700, which is 400 more than what your body thinks is normal so your natty production will be stopped.

My guess is your natural levels were a lot lower than 400 or you wouldnt be on trt so that being said if 1 pump puts you at 400 your body will shut down natty production in time.

Obviously the above is an oversimplification but makes the point.

Yeah you explained it perfectly.

Makes me wonder if HCG, Clomid, etc are necessary to get the testes working again. Shouldn't it be possible to titrate the dose of an aromatase inhibitor to keep E levels at the level they were before supplementation? E is the trigger to the hypothalamus that regulates test production, right?

 

[Zyglamail]

There are multiple feedback loops to test production. Both estrogen levels and T levels have an impact on natural production.

HCS is beneficial if trying to have kids and/or would like to keep your testis from shrinking.