On anavar for 2 years, with breaks.

[Big BX]

First there were several breaks of about 2 months. Blood work is fairly good. Girl has been training for over 15 years. Anavar dose ranged from mg to 30mg ED. Mostly it was 20mg ED. First year she had some results. She has been putting on weight for the last 6 months, but it is not muscle. Her stomach bloats alot and she has no energy. She takes 150mcg of T4 ED prescribe by a doctor. Last 6 weeks I added 1 IU of GH but nothing at all. She dosen't eat much and works out for an hour a day.

Ask any questions, I really need some help.

 

[redsamurai]

have her go check her heart. She could have some heart muscle dysfunction from having her cholesterol fucked up for long periods. Tell her to have her LV functions checked.

 

[Tatyana]

Was she hypothyroid? Is that the reason for the T4?

I would recommend coming off all but the doctor recommended drugs, and having a few more lab investigations after about three months off the drugs.

She may also be overtraining if it is an hour a day everyday. What sort of training is it, weights, cardio?

Over-training is almost as detrimental as not training at all.

Also what do you mean by she doesn't eat a lot. Do you know how many calories?

Would you be able to give us an example of what she is eating?

If her diet is too low in calories then muscle wastage and fat storage is pretty much guarenteed for the majority of the population.

 

[Mavafanculo]

he wouldnt have scripted t4 if her bloodwork was good - something wasnt right.

2 years on var? what are her lipid numbers? My guess is she didnt tell the doc she was on var, and he prescribed the t4 because of whacked out lipid numbers. OR, not eating made her clinically hypothyroid and her t3/t4 numbers and/or or tsh/trh numbers were off.

when the wheels start to come off the cart, its just time to step back and take a break and let the body fix itself - preferably under a doctors (or endocrinologists) care --- this may be above good bro pay grade

 

[Big BX]

have her go check her heart. She could have some heart muscle dysfunction from having her cholesterol fucked up for long periods. Tell her to have her LV functions checked.

Liver was messed up in May, but mainly it was due to her gall bladder folded over on it. Gall bladder was removed in July. she was off anavar from May til September. Cholesterol has been fin normal ranges.

 

[Big BX]

Was she hypothyroid? Is that the reason for the T4?

I would recommend coming off all but the doctor recommended drugs, and having a few more lab investigations after about three months off the drugs.

She may also be overtraining if it is an hour a day everyday. What sort of training is it, weights, cardio?

Over-training is almost as detrimental as not training at all.

Also what do you mean by she doesn't eat a lot. Do you know how many calories?

Would you be able to give us an example of what she is eating?

If her diet is too low in calories then muscle wastage and fat storage is pretty much guarenteed for the majority of the population.

She has been on doctor prescribed T4 since 2003.

Her recent bloodwork, about a week ago was good except her hemogoban was high. She has seen 2 endocrinologists, both haven't done anything except decrease her T4. started at 200mcg now she is taking 150mcgs.

Training is 4-5 days of cardio for 40mins at a fast walk. Then about 20 mins of wieghts.

She eats maybe 1300 cals a day. She is 5'4", 167, 39 years old. 18 months ago she was 138lbs an had ab outlines.

She has 2 protien shakes a day, somekind of 200 cal proien bar, then usually a turkey burger for super as this is one of te only things she can eat and she dosen't bloat.

 

[Big BX]

he wouldnt have scripted t4 if her bloodwork was good - something wasnt right.

2 years on Anavar - oxandrolone - ? what are her lipid numbers? My guess is she didnt tell the doc she was on Anavar - oxandrolone - , and he prescribed the t4 because of whacked out lipid numbers. OR, not eating made her clinically hypothyroid and her t3/t4 numbers and/or or tsh/trh numbers were off.

when the wheels start to come off the cart, its just time to step back and take a break and let the body fix itself - preferably under a doctors (or endocrinologists) care --- this may be above good bro pay grade

Her TSH is is still out of wack. I seen the bloodwork, and lipids were normal. I told her not to tell the doctor she was taking anything.

She's been taking T4 before about 2 years before anavar.

We were looking at menopause symptoms and she hs a lot of them. She thinks it's beacause of her lack of estrogen. I thought if estrogen is low it is easier to lose fat.

 

[Tatyana]

She has been on doctor prescribed T4 since 2003.

Her recent bloodwork, about a week ago was good except her hemogoban was high. She has seen 2 endocrinologists, both haven't done anything except decrease her T4. started at 200mcg now she is taking 150mcgs.

I am not surprised they have not been able to help her as they do not have the full clinical picture. She has been taking male hormones for two years, and on a very restrictive diet. My job is quite related to the endocrinologist, and we have case studies after case study where nothing benefits the patient until the 'By the way doctor, I have been also taking/doing X. The endocrine system is VERY complicated, and at times, trying to work out what is going on with someone with all the information is difficult enough.It could be almost impossible without all the clinical information.

Training is 4-5 days of cardio for 40mins at a fast walk. Then about 20 mins of wieghts.


How is she training with weights? Is it intense BBing type of training or is it the much lighter weights, high rep, machine type of training a lot of women do?

She eats maybe 1300 cals a day. She is 5'4", 167, 39 years old. 18 months ago she was 138lbs an had ab outlines.

Was she also eating 1300 kcals/day 18 months ago? Your wife and I are about the same height and weight (18 months ago) and I am eating 1800 kcals/day on a competition diet. In my off season I would eat around 2000-2200 kcals.

She has 2 protien shakes a day, somekind of 200 cal proien bar, then usually a turkey burger for super as this is one of te only things she can eat and she dosen't bloat.

The calories sound lower than 1300 to be honest.

If she had been avoiding carbs (for how long has she been on low carbs?), the thyroid gland will slow down.



How long has she been eating such a low calorie consumption?

In all honesty, it may be that she has developed an eating disorder, and with that, her digestive system has backfired on her.

I am a natural BBer, but I do know that you need to eat enough calories, and a lot of good quality food, and a wide range of it to grow muscle and stay healthy. The same sort of things that apply to men making the most of a steroid cycle also apply to women, just that the drugs are different and a few more precautions.

There is a thread related to dieting and metabolic damage on this site as well:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...training/dieting-metabolic-damage-570773.html

I would recommeng getting Tom Venuto's burn the fat, feed the muscle.

There are some exerpts in this thread:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...-training/help-sort-out-your-diet-582178.html


It may be a good idea for her to take a break from cardio for a week or two, focus on weights

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...ardio-queen-may-counterproductive-580116.html

 

[slat1]

That is a rediculous amount of anavar for women.
I would not listen to a word from the person who recomended that.
I have been around the block and I am heavily involved in the bodybuilding world.
She is using more anavar then some IFBB Pro bbers I know.
What I am saying is she is getting horrible advice from someone or she makes terrible decisions herself.
Hope she gets healthy.

 

[redsamurai]

I realize women's endocrine makeup is way different than mens, but that's still and awful long time to be on a steroid. They're not vitamins you take every morning with breakfast.

 

[Nelson Montana]

There are so many things wrong with this post I don't know where to begin. You sound surprised -- which is the most surprising thing of all. The liver can not tolerate that much abuse. I knew she had liver problems just from your first post then you said so in a later post. Meanwhile you said the blood work was all good. Get your story straight. And get your girl to a doctor. Why are you giving her more drugs? What possible good would G.h do that you felt she needed to add it? No one here can help you. This woman has been poisoned. Get real help.

 

[redsamurai]

nelson +1

 

[Big BX]

There are so many things wrong with this post I don't know where to begin. You sound surprised -- which is the most surprising thing of all. The liver can not tolerate that much abuse. I knew she had liver problems just from your first post then you said so in a later post. Meanwhile you said the blood work was all good. Get your story straight. And get your girl to a doctor. Why are you giving her more drugs? What possible good would G.h do that you felt she needed to add it? No one here can help you. This woman has been poisoned. Get real help.

No where did I say that she has been on for 2 years straight. First, the reason her liver was messed up was because of her gall bladder being folded up on it. Not because of anavar. I stated that latter in one of my posts. I gave more information as questions were asked. She has been to several doctors, all surgeons and endocrinologists. None of them have an answer. They keep adjusting her T4 which is making her tired. I gave her GH as for me I love it. I feel great on it. What's side effects dose GH have? I been using it for over 5 years. I think is worth the money.

It was her idea to take the anavar continuously. She has endrometreosis also, and for as long as she has been taking anavar or prohormones it hasn't came back.

Poisoned? Really? How do you figure that. Her bloodwork taking around ten days ago was normal except hemoglobans. They were high.

I am trying to get her help, I just found an endocrinologist who works well bodybuilders and athletes.

 

[Big BX]

The calories sound lower than 1300 to be honest.

If she had been avoiding carbs (for how long has she been on low carbs?), the thyroid gland will slow down.



How long has she been eating such a low calorie consumption?

In all honesty, it may be that she has developed an eating disorder, and with that, her digestive system has backfired on her.

I am a natural BBer, but I do know that you need to eat enough calories, and a lot of good quality food, and a wide range of it to grow muscle and stay healthy. The same sort of things that apply to men making the most of a steroid cycle also apply to women, just that the drugs are different and a few more precautions.

There is a thread related to dieting and metabolic damage on this site as well:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...training/dieting-metabolic-damage-570773.html

I would recommeng getting Tom Venuto's burn the fat, feed the muscle.

There are some exerpts in this thread:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...-training/help-sort-out-your-diet-582178.html


It may be a good idea for her to take a break from cardio for a week or two, focus on weights

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...ardio-queen-may-counterproductive-580116.html

She has been avoiding carbs. I told her a high protien/moderate carb/low fat diet is best. But, she says low carb works for her.

 

[Tatyana]

She has been avoiding carbs. I told her a high protien/moderate carb/low fat diet is best. But, she says low carb works for her.

Personally I think the low carb thing is going the same way as the whole low fat thing went.

We have had low fat food for 20 years now, and everyone has gotten FATTER.

Fat gets burned in the 'fire' of carbs being burned.

I didn't realise how many people swore by low carbs, and couldn't believe that I could drop to the single digits bodyfat eating 200 g/carbs a day.

I never dropped my carbs below 120 g/day in my comp prep (and that was carb cycling).

My avvie right now is an example of my carb cycling diet.

I have put on muscle everytime I have dieted down for a comp with carbs, and I would eat things like baby new potatoes, and loads of rice cakes

Not all carbs are created equally, you may want to have her re-think her diet, her thyroid function may improve naturally with the addition of some carbs.

I have done low carbs, and in one of my journals on this site, I also have how I introduced carbs back into my diet.

I am back on 200 g/day in my comp prep, and it is going a lot better than on the low carb, no loss of muscle.

 

[Tatyana]

I have always thought of low carbs as more of a short term diet thing for comp prep etc, not a lifestyle diet.

Most of the research on low carb diet does show that they work well in the short term, but by one year, the amount of fat loss is about the same as other diets.

If she is going to stick with the low carb thing, I would recommend she eats more whole foods, steaks, nuts, eggs, seeds, instead of whey protein and protein bars. Especially the protien bars, most of them are full of sugar and hydrogenated trans fats, really not all that healthy.

And the polyols that replace the carbs, dubious at best.

 

[cindylou]

I have always thought of low carbs as more of a short term diet thing for comp prep etc, not a lifestyle diet.

Most of the research on low carb diet does show that they work well in the short term, but by one year, the amount of fat loss is about the same as other diets.

If she is going to stick with the low carb thing, I would recommend she eats more whole foods, steaks, nuts, eggs, seeds, instead of whey protein and protein bars. Especially the protien bars, most of them are full of sugar and hydrogenated trans fats, really not all that healthy.

And the polyols that replace the carbs, dubious at best.

How would she go about pwo? Regular food post workout? Or still have a whey shake

 

[Tatyana]

How would she go about pwo? Regular food post workout? Or still have a whey shake

Whey shakes post workout are a good idea.

Just more real food the rest of the time.

 

[slat1]

Glad to hear you found a good dr. Hopefully, he can help her out.

 

[Mandy Polk]

We were looking at menopause symptoms and she hs a lot of them. She thinks it's beacause of her lack of estrogen. I thought if estrogen is low it is easier to lose fat.

Low estrogen is a result of a chronically low calorie diet and the body will then down regulate all hormone production in order to slow metabolism (which estrogen and progesterone regulate), and survive. She needs to take a break so her hormones will regulate, and add Armour or T3 as the synthroid or livoxyl or whatever T4 she's on isn't doing a damn thing for her. Low estrogen isn't good for fat loss, it's good for getting injured and slowing your metabolism.

 

[fitness-rubber]

Low estrogen is a result of a chronically low calorie diet and the body will then down regulate all hormone production in order to slow metabolism (which estrogen and progesterone regulate), and survive. She needs to take a break so her hormones will regulate, and add Armour or T3 as the synthroid or livoxyl or whatever T4 she's on isn't doing a damn thing for her. Low estrogen isn't good for fat loss, it's good for getting injured and slowing your metabolism.

Just to point out the obvious... getting injured and burying your metabolism is going to accomplish pretty much the opposite of anyone's training goals.

 

[Tatyana]

Low oestrogen = bone density loss

The number one killer of women is complications from osteoporosis.

It is also thought that oestrogen protects against a lot of heart disease, which is why it is quite rare for pre-menopausal women to have heart attacks.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

The dose is very high but I will be honest I have heard of a number of pro women both figure and bb running around 10 mg of var 24/7/365

 

[slat1]

The dose is very high but I will be honest I have heard of a number of pro women both figure and bb running around 10 mg of Anavar - oxandrolone - 24/7/365

I know a few who confide in me.
Everyone is different but the ones I know use 10 tops and a little clen just leading up to a show.
What blows my mind is regular women who use WAY more then that. Why? I am betting its a lax diet.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

I know a few who confide in me.
Everyone is different but the ones I know use 10 tops and a little Clenbuterol just leading up to a show.
What blows my mind is regular women who use WAY more then that. Why? I am betting its a lax diet.

If you talking figure that is all they need no offense to any figure competitors but even top pro's now carry very little muscle it is abs and a bit of delt cap that is it.