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Oh damn did I dig a deep hole for myself.

Crazier

New member
Although this is long... bear with me here.

Well... I'm fucked. Plain and simple. No two ways about it.

Yesterday morning I drive up to Tucson for a conference. We were done with our meeting around noon, so I head for the pool.
While I basked in the beauty, I drank pretty heavily.

At about 5:00 I left the pool, and went to get ready for a cocktail party. Earlier in the day I told the people I met that I would meet them at about 6:15. These people are a huge manufacturer for one of companies my business represents. In attendance was the president, vice president, and all four regional managers.

Although I felt pretty good, I didn't feel drunk... and I knew they'd get butthurt if I dicked them over for cocktails and dinner. So, I go.

The first hour and a half... I'm maintaining really well. I have the important people laughing, I'm doing well. I was drinking sluggishly. The sun had dried me out to a prune, and I was really starting to feel fucking hammered.

At about 7:30... my memory is at a loss for the next 3 hours or so.
I don't know if we went to a bar, a restaurant, or bowling... I really couldn't tell you. The combination of mixed drinks and turning into a raisin took over. When I went into another conference this morning, I went over to one of the RM's, the coolest one of all of them, and asked how I maintained.

He nearly broke out in laughter. My quote of the night turns out to be 'you fucking pussy!' So, he tells me that about at 10:00 or so, Tom, another RM, drove me back to my hotel room. Basicly to sleep it off.

I wish the story ended there. But no way. There's more. Much more. When I got out of the elevator on my floor, I noticed a lovely looking tree in a planter. I decided to put it in the elevator. Childish, yes. Petty but still fun? Yes. I mean, it looks pretty damn funny when the elevator opens, and there's a fucking tree in there.

Anyway, I go to roll the tree into the elevator, and the wheels hit the crack on the bottom of the elevator. This resulted in sand and shit getting all over the floor. I'm like, ah fuck. I pick the tree up, and start to pick up all the mess... and I turned around and security is standing there.

'What the hell are you doing?' says this 20 year old hotel security guard. :rolleyes: So I tell him, 'Man, I was moving this tree and it fell over... it was an accident. I'll pick all the mess up.
He says 'Why were you touching the tree in the first place.' Then he pages someone else to come down. At this point, I'm like 'don't me a dick man... I shouldn't been moving the tree, it was stupid... no worries, I'll pick up the mess and move on.

No such luck.

His other security friend comes. He's much older. And he's pissed off as all hell too. I'm trying to get them to just shut the fuck up... my room was under the name of the vice president of the company... I didn't want any shit.

They go on further, and tell me that front desk has asked me to leave for the night. I'm like, holyfuckingshit, are you serious? This place cost like $230 for the night... and I didn't have to eat the bill. I liked that place and wanted to stay. But, they walked me to my room to get my bags with me. I mean, I'm fucking obviously drunk... and they're asking me to leave?

When I open the hotel door, young guy goes darting in the door.
His older friend waits by the door and tells him to have a look around to make sure nothing else is broken.

I tell him nothing's broke... let me just get my shit and I'll leave.

His friend opens the drawer under the television set. (Now legal advice here please... since this is a hotel, are they allowed to just go romping through your shit... or was that illegal?)

Inside it? Ah, yes. My pipe, and about two bowls worth of dope.
Young boy shit's his pants. They call the fucking cops.

I'm like this is fucking insane.

Cop comes. Tommy Badass himself. Starts off by reading me my rights. Then cuffs me. Then puts me in his car.

I'm sitting there in disbelief. I have a meeting in the morning at 8... my room's under the V.P.'s name... never good.

At first Tommy Badass was a real hard core dickhead. Once I started talking to him, and explaining that I wasn't there to vandalize the hotel... I was just having a little drunk fun, and the damn tree accidentaly fell over.

Then, dope. You should have seen the size of this bathtub this place had... unbelievable. I was gonna sit back in a whole shitload of bubbles and smoke a bowl or two. Well, so what?

Tommy becomes half way cool and calls a cab for me. He then gets me out of his car, uncuffs me, and starts writing tickets.

1. Criminal Damage. For the damn tree. :rolleyes: I am going to call the officer when he gets to work at 10 tonight and ask him why I would be hit with this. I could understand vandalism, if you want to be a dick.

2. Possesion of Marijuana. Yeah... well cry me a fucking river.

3. Possesion of Drug Paraphenila. Yeah... and I want it back!

3 fucking criminal charges. 1 misdemeanor, 2 felonies. :bawling: :bawling:

I'm sure I can get the felony charges dropped to a misdemeanor in a plea. The dope I had was in a pill bottle with my name on it... that's why I couldn't say it wasn't mine. Stupid, much like the tree thing, but I had no reason to sketch.

So I take a cab ride to some some hotels. Every fucking one under the sun is full. Except the $30 shithole with no hotwater across the street. While yes, it was better than a jail cell... I went from pure luxury and class to this hell hole.

I went to bed and woke up in the morning, caught a cab and arrived to the meeting about a half an hour early.

I'm nervous at this point. I'm not sure if they had already checked out of the hotel or not... I knew when they did, they would have some news for them.

From about 8-12 I just maintain. I call a few friends of mine to help me through the anxiety period of waiting for the inevitable.

Then it happened. I see the V.P. talking to hotel people. About 5 of them. And, they keep glancing my way. Wasn't the first time people had glanced my way that day, that's for sure.

After about 5 minutes of talking, Bill walks over to me and sits down.

Him - 'Are you about done with this account?'

Me - 'No, actually this is a pretty large one... it will probably be a while.

Him - 'Well, what I want you to do is shut down your computer, have me walk you to your car, and then you drive home and I don't want to see you again.'

Me - 'Wow. Really?'

Him - 'Yes. What you did was inexcusable. There's no reasoning for it. You made my company look bad, you made your company look bad, and you made our show look bad.'

Me - 'Bill, I'm sorry that was not my intention.'

Him - 'You're gonna be in a lot of trouble.'

Me - 'With who?'

Him - 'With the law! Drugs?'

So, I procede to shut down my computer just thinking WOW.

He starts to walk me to my car.

Him - 'What kind of drugs did you have anyway?'

Me - 'I had about 2 bowls of pot... I was just going to take a bath and relax. I didn't mean to make anybody look bad.'

He shakes my hand, and tells me to drive safe.

I'm sure about 15 yards later he pulled out his mobil and called my boss.

I have a call pending for my boss right now. He's been good friends with my dad for over 10 years... he's been a good boss and a good friend to me as well. He deserved a heads up before these 5 people call him, telling him that I was 'trashing the place.'
That's exactly what they thought I was doing. I got his voicemail and just told him that he will probably, if he hasn't already be getting a phone call and I wanted to at least give him the heads up so he knows what's going on when he does get the call. I haven't heard back from him yet.

I've lost my job. I know I have. It's not even really my bosses choice. The manufacturer is... and he was fucking livid. If he tells my boss that he doesn't want me to be a part of his organization... friends or not, I know my boss will have to fire me.

And, I can understand that. Although I'll have one hell of a mean pay cut, I hated the job anyway. I really did. On Sunday nights I usually get a little ill for the week to come. It's no way to live I suppose, but quitting and losing 50% of your pay is very hard to do.

So, I can get over the job real easy. Sell my car and get a normal person car. If that mean's I don't have to work in that hell hole for 45 hours a week... then I could give two shits about that.

Overall, I just don't my boss, on a personal and friend level feel that I've fucked him over.

It was never my intention. I've been smoking herb for the last 3 years. I've worked here for about 2 1/2 years.

More than anything, I want to be able to still call him as a friend and see how things are going.

Sorry this is so long... pretty much my life on paper of the last 24 hours... and as you can easily see... I'm fucked.

At least I'm at home and can smoke pot now. :havoc:
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damn!

sorry to hear that dude

id be feeling a lot of resentment to the guards but they were only doing their job, by the sound of it this place was too upmarket to allow that shit....the searching of the room and kicking as out was a bit extreme as that hotel probably see's all the hookers the business men bring in anyway

:(
 
I fail to see how you can rationalize away your vandalism of the tree, and how you expected security to just let you go after that. If I saw an intoxicated fellow playing pranks and screwing around in my premises, you better believe I'd call the cops right away and get you the hell out of my place.

Just another case of people not taking responsibility for their actions.

I can never fathom how people can think: "what I'm doing's not so bad, they didn't have to kick me out," when they're vandalizing something. Makes me fucking ill. You vandalize or destroy property, you suffer the consequences. Don't blame the guards or the police for YOUR mistakes.
 
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Just keep your head through the prevailing shit storm and start looking for some other means of income. Crazier it's never as bad as anyone says. But you should start planning for that new J.O.B.

peace.
 
I admire your outlook, you must be a true shaolin ninja through this time ahead of you, you will be just fine, however, I wish this did not occur. peace
 
Damn, sorry to hear all that Crazier!! But yeah, they had no right to search through your stuff that night. A good lawyer will get that dropped. I know this cause this just happened to my brother. But it's good that you are looking for what good can come from all this. If the job was lousy it's not a total loss. And I'm sure that you can remain friends with your boss. Good luck hun!!
 
smokinghawk said:
Sorry, man, but no sympathy. This is your substance abuse, and your consequences.

First off, blow me.

You know nothing about me. You don't know how much or how little I drink. You don't know how much or how little I smoke.

I'm asking sympathy from nobody. I've enjoyed the past 3 years of smoking dope, and because of that... from day 1, I knew because of the ignorance of people like yourself, that a day may come when my hands would go behind my back for smoking pot.

Ridiculous.

I recognized that possibility though, I accepted it... and enjoyed smoke for 3 years without an incident.

The court system certainly won't help me with my 'abuse.' I'll pay a shitload of money. Some mind alertnating experience that will be. I'm sure when I come home, after paying that ticket, that I will see pot in the same light as yourself. :rolleyes:

Go smoke a bowl, then come talk to me.
--
 
As for the rest of you and your comments... thank you.

Not so much is it sympathy I want, as understanding.

I meant no harm. I was gonna put a tree in an elevator, chuckle a bit, then go take a nice hot bath and smoke a few bowls.

A victimless crime for sure. Aye!!!

Thanks guys.
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That's all a damn shame, man. Dumb luck at its best. Hard to believe you'll laugh at this in 10 yrs and say yeah, that was bullshit. Good luck on playing the cards out now.
 
I meant no harm. I was gonna put a tree in an elevator, chuckle a bit, then go take a nice hot bath and smoke a few bowls.

A victimless crime for sure. Aye!!!

The smoke bowls part, sure.

The tree in the elevator, hell no - there was a victim there, the hotel, and it is good you were caught and are going to get your just desserts.
 
Hahahahahaha thanks for posting this, a damn quality read I must say!

The security shouldnt have called the cops about a little bit of dope, you were already on your way out that is just fucked up.

Here in Australia if they did that to me you can guarantee I would be finding out who they are and giving them a peice of my mind.
 
Zirakzigil said:


The smoke bowls part, sure.

The tree in the elevator, hell no - there was a victim there, the hotel, and it is good you were caught and are going to get your just desserts.

Get over yourself, dickhead.

I dont like you.
 
Get over yourself, dickhead.

I dont like you.
Oh? Which is it:
a) you think that destroying the plant was NOT a victimless crime
b) you think he shouldn't have to face the music
c) you're pissed because I'm right
 
you crazy fuck

dude I can relate, drugs got me into some real shit time after time. I have been clean now for three years. I hope everything works out for you., And one thing always follow this one rule

DON'T EVER TAKE DRUGS WITH YOU

Always smoke, inject, snort at your house. Just to shady these days.


peace and luck
HI

p.s. I always find when i do stupid shit like you with the tree even though your just haveing fun someone catches you., When ever you fucked up just keep to yourself, which is easier said then done. Once in NYC my boy and I would pick up old christmas tree and fling em everywhere, of course it was dumb, but hell your drunk.
 
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Zirakzigil said:

Oh? Which is it:
a) you think that destroying the plant was NOT a victimless crime
b) you think he shouldn't have to face the music
c) you're pissed because I'm right

No what I dont like is your holy than thou condesending attitude and your inability to have a laugh at what is clearly an amusing story.

And also your lack of sympathy, Im sorry but craziers actions were pretty damn harmless and he has lost his job in an unfourtunate string of events..
 
let me guess, this was liturgy, or just a spiritual experience? you get on my ass about creditability, damn the hypocracy. good luck with the felony charges though.
 
No what I dont like is your holy than thou condesending attitude and your inability to have a laugh at what is clearly an amusing story.
Why shouldn't I be holier-than-thou? I've never vandalized anything. (the drugs are a different story, and you'll note I am not at all condemning him for having weed - I think it should be decriminalized at the very least). Wait - you think it was amusing? A guy vandalizes a tree, gets in trouble, and might lose his job...and that's funny to you? Wow.



And also your lack of sympathy, Im sorry but craziers actions were pretty damn harmless and he has lost his job in an unfourtunate string of events..
I'm sorry, but he is a grown man and he possesses the analytical skills to determine what right and wrong are. Right: not vandalizing. Wrong: vandalizing. It doesn't matter that it was fun or that it was what he wanted to do - you do something wrong, you take the consequences. He knew he was registered under his VP's name. He knew vandalizing was wrong. He knew what would happen if his drugs were found and the cops called. And yet he disregarded all of this.

You commit a crime (destroying property), you suffer the consequences. And in this case, they were not too harsh at all.
 
Zirakzigil said:

Why shouldn't I be holier-than-thou? I've never vandalized anything. (the drugs are a different story, and you'll note I am not at all condemning him for having weed - I think it should be decriminalized at the very least). Wait - you think it was amusing? A guy vandalizes a tree, gets in trouble, and might lose his job...and that's funny to you? Wow.

I'm sorry, but he is a grown man and he possesses the analytical skills to determine what right and wrong are. Right: not vandalizing. Wrong: vandalizing. It doesn't matter that it was fun or that it was what he wanted to do - you do something wrong, you take the consequences. He knew he was registered under his VP's name. He knew vandalizing was wrong. He knew what would happen if his drugs were found and the cops called. And yet he disregarded all of this.

You commit a crime (destroying property), you suffer the consequences. And in this case, they were not too harsh at all.

The events which he outlined are most definately amusing and he will look back and laugh one day, infact Im sure he can see amidst the trauma the amusing side right now.

There is no doubting putting the tree in the elavator was an incredibly stupid thing for a gown man to do, but really now if my friends tell me a tale like the above I dont say 'Well you deserved to loose your job! grow up! have fun in court pathetic pile of excrement'. Getting busted for posession of mj is tough luck and I have a whole lot of sympathy.
 
spongebob said:
let me guess, this was liturgy, or just a spiritual experience? you get on my ass about creditability, damn the hypocracy. good luck with the felony charges though.

I didn't even reply to your last thread on havoc's post, I figure if 194 posts and 10 pages can't help you see things more clearly, a single post from myself... which again would be misunderstood and misinterpreted, wouldn't have the power to make a difference.

It was going to be a spiritual experience Bob. I lounged at the pool all day, it was a beautiful day... I mean a beautiful day. Everything was fine. And to answer your question Bob, smoking is always spiritual.

On my drive up to Tucson, I thought about you and our conversation. Then I looked around, and counted the things that I see that you it seems that you apparently can not. The first thing I saw was a bird, the next was an incredibly odd shaped mountain, the next were the rays of sunlight, the next was a bird that streaked across the sky, and had white stripes on his wings. As Ricky Fitz in American Beauty said, 'Then one day I realized there was another life behind everything. Sometimes the beauty is so overwhelming, it feels like my heart is going to cave in.'

It's all right there. It always has been. It's just a matter of seeing it. I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that different people are on different spirituality levels.

If you see it, then you know what I am talking about. If you don't, then we are at different spiritual plains. It doesn't mean I'm right, and your wrong, vice versa...

While I try not to judge, you did indicate that I'm close minded because I say one has to become spritual to begin to see it.

I'm sorry you don't understand. It's not that I'm being close minded, a person that is on his path of enlightenment is spiritual. He thinks deeply about himself and his actions Bob. He believes in karma, and the negative or positive aspect his dailyactions will bring to him.

How is my credibility blown? Did you not realize before that I smoked pot? Daily? I was going to take a bath and relax... instead I was persecuted and conflict arised for a lack of understanding. Nothing more.
--
 
OK ZigZag, I think you need to calm down a scoshe and see what he typed. He didn't vandalize the plant. he tried to drag it into an elevator. His drunken ass caught it on the entrance and tipped it over, get off the vandalism trip, man. He was drunk and fucked up a prank, thats all it was. A joke that went bad out of bad luck. If they let him bust out the dirt devil instead of being johnny tough guy, he'd have been a cool laugh for the rent-a-cops. Busting through the door when he opened it was straight off COPS. Some over zealous part timers got over anxious. If he had the $$, he should sue. Damn shame it happened and a bigger shame we have to set you straight with your half ass rant.
 
Zirakzigil said:

Why shouldn't I be holier-than-thou? I've never vandalized anything. (the drugs are a different story, and you'll note I am not at all condemning him for having weed - I think it should be decriminalized at the very least). Wait - you think it was amusing? A guy vandalizes a tree, gets in trouble, and might lose his job...and that's funny to you? Wow.

You commit a crime (destroying property), you suffer the consequences. And in this case, they were not too harsh at all.

As I said in my original post... I would agree to vandalism charges. You are right. I fucked up. I never disagreed with that point. I just don't understand where the criminal damage charge came from. I didn't break the damn thing. I wasn't trying to hurt it. I don't kill anything that doesn't pose a threat to me or someone else, I'm a bug relocator.

I will pay for any damage I caused. All I meant to do was put a tree in the elevator. Plans didn't go as well as I hoped.

I am happy to hear that you'd like to see weed decriminalized though.

And BoneChucker - Thank you my brother. We need more people in the world like yourself. I was out to harm no one. As I said before, I hated my job and couldn't quit because of pay... this gives me the chance to finally seek a job that won't make me feel like I'm going to vomit every Sunday night. The next month or so will be a rough one, but in the end, as you said (and I can see right now) I will see a funny side to the story looking back, and hopefully an awesome change because of it. There's no chics at my work either.

HI - What drugs were you on? How does it feel to be clean from the drug you were addicted to?

I'm surpised I didn't get more 'grow up' comments... but like you said bro, it's just drunk fun!!! And how many other people can say they called every high up in a major company a FUCKING PUSSY a few times over. ;)
--
 
Crazier I think this whole story is pretty amusing, the tree thing was technically wrong but basically so harmless how can one get upset about it? Many people on here drive drunk and such and I feel that that should be a near capital offense after so many offenses as if you are willing to risk everyone else's lives than perhaps you should enjoy a bullet to the back of your skull.
 
The events which he outlined are most definately amusing and he will look back and laugh one day, infact Im sure he can see amidst the trauma the amusing side right now.
Yes...amusing...in the way a traffic accident or teenage vandalism is amusing.

There is no doubting putting the tree in the elavator was an incredibly stupid thing for a gown man to do, but really now if my friends tell me a tale like the above I dont say 'Well you deserved to loose your job! grow up! have fun in court pathetic pile of excrement'. Getting busted for posession of mj is tough luck and I have a whole lot of sympathy.
Ah, the crux of the disagreement. I expect my friends to take responsibility for their actions and in that respect I aim to treat them no differently than I would a random person on the street. The difference between my treatment of a random guy and a friend is, I would be willing to help my friends get their lives back together - I'd loan them money for a lawyer, listen to their problems, and try to talk through the difficulties. In general: try to help them get back on track.
 
Looking for understanding after such a situation is revealing of the terribly suburban ethic that parents have adopted over the last 20 years or so. They're so goddamned concerned about protecting and coddling their kids that said kids never really understand that with action comes consequence ... good or bad (but mostly bad). I wonder when parents decided that keeping their children out of the "harmful" way of experience was a good idea, anyway? It's created a culture that breeds the perception that nothing of substantial consequence happens when you fuck up. I'm not saying this is you, but the reaction of many people on this thread says a lot. Yes, your deal sucks and I hope you manage the outcome.

To wit: I owned a .22 at age eight, I never wore a helmet/elbowpads/kneepads when I rode my bike, never got my hands wiped with antibacterial lotion ... and I understand that if I embarrass my employer while on a business trip I should expect to be fired and if I'm caught doing something illegal I'll at least be cited and I know if I damage someone's property they're probably going to be upset -- not that the former series taught me the latter. But to expect anything less is unfortunate.
 
Crazier you crazy!!!!!!

but I am with you man!

you did not deserve the rigid sentence you were handed...so I feel your pain........

you should how ever take this as a learning lesson...that you can't let it all hang out in our police state.........nohing gets by these days.....even past security fucks!!!!

so you aint getting much love on thread by I am with you man......we've all made mistakes........

the only thing that I think you should watch is the drinking thing in the future.......

GOOD LUCK
 
Rockafella Skank said:
Looking for understanding after such a situation is revealing of the terribly suburban ethic that parents have adopted over the last 20 years or so. They're so goddamned concerned about protecting and coddling their kids that said kids never really understand that with action comes consequence ... good or bad (but mostly bad). I wonder when parents decided that keeping their children out of the "harmful" way of experience was a good idea, anyway? It's created a culture that breeds the perception that nothing of substantial consequence happens when you fuck up. I'm not saying this is you, but the reaction of many people on this thread says a lot. Yes, your deal sucks and I hope you manage the outcome.

To wit: I owned a .22 at age eight, I never wore a helmet/elbowpads/kneepads when I rode my bike, never got my hands wiped with antibacterial lotion ... and I understand that if I embarrass my employer while on a business trip I should expect to be fired and if I'm caught doing something illegal I'll at least be cited and I know if I damage someone's property they're probably going to be upset -- not that the former series taught me the latter. But to expect anything less is unfortunate.

That is a very good point Rockafella...
 
Crazier said:


It was going to be a spiritual experience Bob. I lounged at the pool all day, it was a beautiful day... I mean a beautiful day. Everything was fine. And to answer your question Bob, smoking is always spiritual.

i didnt ask a question about your smoking, i could care less if you smoke. it was the tree incident itself i was referring to.

On my drive up to Tucson, I thought about you and our conversation. Then I looked around, and counted the things that I see that you it seems that you apparently can not. The first thing I saw was a bird, the next was an incredibly odd shaped mountain, the next were the rays of sunlight, the next was a bird that streaked across the sky, and had white stripes on his wings. As Ricky Fitz in American Beauty said, 'Then one day I realized there was another life behind everything. Sometimes the beauty is so overwhelming, it feels like my heart is going to cave in.'

uhm....sounds like the time when i was off the coast of the philipines and when you looked at the islands it appeared that the mountains were rising out of the ocean, or the time when i was in the pacific and the dolphines were racing along side of us. and i distinctly remember the time when i was in st thomas and the water was so crystal clear, you could see straight to the bottom 6 ft deep. and this all pales in comparison to the moments when my baby daughter looks up at me and smiles happily. i have seen it and see it daily. none of that was ever my point.

It's all right there. It always has been. It's just a matter of seeing it. I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that different people are on different spirituality levels.

If you see it, then you know what I am talking about. If you don't, then we are at different spiritual plains. It doesn't mean I'm right, and your wrong, vice versa...

While I try not to judge, you did indicate that I'm close minded because I say one has to become spritual to begin to see it.

i said you are closed-minded for a few reasons. to be open-minded, means to include all ideas, not exclude the ones you dont agree with. if a man tells you that he need only pray once a week in the morning to find god, then you as an open-minded individual, should say ok, that is possible, and it may be the only way, you are close-minded and hypocritical if you say, NO, you have to pray this long and meditate. you see crazier, you have set up rules in order to be spiritual and to find god, just like christianity has done. just because your rules are slightly different, makes you no more enlightened. dont you think christians can see the things you and i descibed? i am not arguing theology or spirituality here and never was.

I'm sorry you don't understand. It's not that I'm being close minded, a person that is on his path of enlightenment is spiritual. He thinks deeply about himself and his actions Bob. He believes in karma, and the negative or positive aspect his dailyactions will bring to him.

if one is going to think deeply about his himself and his actions maybe one should not get as drunk as you did and vandelize someone elses property. thats what i meant when i said creditability.

How is my credibility blown? Did you not realize before that I smoked pot? Daily? I was going to take a bath and relax... instead I was persecuted and conflict arised for a lack of understanding. Nothing more.
--

a lack of understanding. you dumped over a tree in the elevator. you did something you shouldnt have done, plain and simple.

BTW, i happen to find it funny also, too bad you lost your job though.

and as far as your pot, i am indifferent to ones personal habits as long as it doesnt harm or affect another person.
 
Crazier

I smoked pot for a good 5-6 years almost everyday. goodshit Hydro, Purple Haze, Blueberry strand, northern lights, kind

i also dabbled in coke, cystal meth, dust,

but those days are long gone, I don't even drink that much anymore. Yea I use to live it up and party hard. Now I find my dedication to the Iron keeps me clean. I am about to do AS so I guess you could count that as drug usage if you want. But if done safely and in moderation AS does little harm to the human body.

I quit in part because of my ex and in part for fitness goals. Like I said goodluck with everything. I never really got in that much trouble for drugs, but I went to jail for raceing my car. I know what dicks cops can be when your a target. Now I just live a clean simple life, at 26.
 
I see where you are coming from SpongeBob. Good points. I never meant to indicate that it's my way or no way... that wasn't my intent and I want to stress that fact. If a person lives good (doesn't knock tree's over in an elevator :rolleyes: ) the bottom line is Bob... I could care less what a person believes. If he can be wholesome and loving to other's by just applying himself to his sprituality for an hour a week, more power to him. It takes me longer to reflect than that. It doesn't mean he's right and I'm wrong... it just means were on different spiritual levels.

You seem like a good guy Bob... don't get the wrong idea of what I am trying to convey. I don't use the term right or wrong.

HI - Damn. I wish I had a kickass hook up like you did! :D I haven't ever touched the coke, x, dust... I've done mushrooms twice, and currently trying to get a hook up for another round. It's been about a year and a half since the last time I ate em... looking forward to it. It's a nice high. You can see another dimension. It's unreal. Last time I ate them I evaluated what pot was doing to my life. Decided to quit. Those 3 days were pretty rough. ;)

Well... I'm 25... I suppose I'll have to switch over to the simple life soon enough. More than anything, I just need to lay off alcohol for a bit.

MY BOSS HAS NOT CALLED ME BACK!!! :mad: :mad:
--
 
Well, this just re-enforces my feelings for security gaurds. Like cops, a few are good, but many take it too far and are just looking for a reason to flex.

Crazier, that sucks--but you will move on.

For the simple fact that you were mannerly and were trying to smooth things over---the gaurd should have done what he could to help you to your room to sleep it off instead of being a powertripping dick.

If you would have been confrontational, I could understan his actions, but according to the story--you were not and that is what gets me----he should have helped you.

So what about the tree? Big deal---its a tree! No harm done---no one was hurt. The gaurd should have made sure that it stayed that way.
 
Damn Crazier!
I hate it for you bro! I personally feel it was all about cutting up innocently. Kind of like, unplugging the coil wire on your friend's distributor cap and watch him run his battery dead. I know you meant no harm but sometimes things don't go as planned. I feel the security guys had no right to search your room though! That would be an invasion of privacy IMO. Maybe it might be time to give up all of the destructive habits and leave them behind. You have to want to do it though.

As far as Zirak is concerned....lay off man. It was harmless fun! I'm not some drug using, beer drinking buddy of Crazier saying that. I am 40 and have never used drugs in my life. I rarely drink any alcohol but I still feel you are overreacting!
 
What up fool?

Sounds like you were just trying to have a little fun.. Fuck everyone who is being a bitch about it...

Anyways, Where do you live????

None of those charges are felonies.... At least not in the states...
 
addickt said:
What up fool?

Sounds like you were just trying to have a little fun.. Fuck everyone who is being a bitch about it...

Anyways, Where do you live????

None of those charges are felonies.... At least not in the states...

What's up addickt???

Exactly bro. I mean, loosen up a bit. It's not like a picked the tree up and spiked the fucker into the ground and then stomped on it. Damn!!!

I'm in Arizona, and I was confident that it is a felony? Do you know for sure? Damn this sucks.

I'll gonna have to take a hit for all this bullshit! :D :D

HumorMe - I hear ya man and thanks. I've always liked doing petty shit that doesn't cause a lot of harm, but fun nonetheless.
Mailbox baseball is a classic example. :D Sure, somebody has to buy a new mailbox, etc etc... but still, if you've ever taken a bat to a mailbox... you know it's worth the risk.

I remember my friends car in high school... 1979 Ford LTD. Rusted to hell, 354 in the bitch... pure steel. We could hit those garbage cans people put outside of their house at 60 no problem. Garbage, the wheels of the garbage can, flying everywhere. Okay... so maybe that's a little harsh. ;)

At 25 though... I'm afraid I'm getting close my friend.
--
 
Crazier said:

I remember my friends car in high school... 1979 Ford LTD. Rusted to hell, 354 in the bitch... pure steel. We could hit those garbage cans people put outside of their house at 60 no problem. Garbage, the wheels of the garbage can, flying everywhere. Okay... so maybe that's a little harsh. ;)

At 25 though... I'm afraid I'm getting close my friend.
--


That is funny. I have a friend here(much younger than me) who would get with his buddies and cruise the neighborhoods and look for those large trash cans with wheels the city gives you for your trash. They would find one that had not yet been rolled back in by it's owners and they would ride by and grab it and pull it down the road until they found a telephone pole and then let it go and that fucker would actually climb the pole and the wheels would shoot off of it. They got caught one day by an old man standing in the bushes videotaping the whole episode. You could hear his voice saying, "Honey, here they come."(his voice was never changing) Anyway, to make a long story short, he told me their lawyer watched the videotape and he couldn't control himself from laughing histerically. He said, their lawyer wanted to send it in to America's Funniest Videos but knew that he couldn't because that would be unethical. Nonetheless, their lawyer said it was the funniest damn piece of evidence he has ever come across. Harmless fun but destructive but funny as shit!
 
Jesus boy......

Normally I'd come find you and take you out behind the woodshed. But your punishment is no doubt on it's way. I agree with big Havoc and Wodin though, you're handling it well, not pissing like a puppy about it.

I'm sorry it happened little brutha. Long days of hot sun and boozing are a vicious mixture. That I know.

Tough day a the office, but this too shall pass. Let me know if I can do anything.
 
Crazier said:


First off, blow me.

You know nothing about me. You don't know how much or how little I drink. You don't know how much or how little I smoke.

I'm asking sympathy from nobody. I've enjoyed the past 3 years of smoking dope, and because of that... from day 1, I knew because of the ignorance of people like yourself, that a day may come when my hands would go behind my back for smoking pot.

Ridiculous.

I recognized that possibility though, I accepted it... and enjoyed smoke for 3 years without an incident.

The court system certainly won't help me with my 'abuse.' I'll pay a shitload of money. Some mind alertnating experience that will be. I'm sure when I come home, after paying that ticket, that I will see pot in the same light as yourself. :rolleyes:

Go smoke a bowl, then come talk to me.
--

First off, does it MATTER how much I know you? Did you read your own story? The whole account from beginning to end was you describing and admitting what a jerk you were, and how you failed to control yourself in an important situation because of your own drinking, and how the problem compounded because of your pot and paraphenalia.

What REALLY amazes me is the intensity of the denial to suggest it's the security guard's fault: "He shouldn't have gone trhough that stuff." Nevermind thatit was your stuff, you know it's illegal, and you know you acted in a way that caused these consequences.

Rant at me all you want. You're the one with a huge story about how YOUR actions dug yourself a hole. How come you can admit that to start with, but when someone points out, "Yep, you sure did..." you get mad?

BTW, how come when YOU'RE the one smoking dope, you blame ME for getting cuffed and arrested? As a former dope smoker myself, I am VERY happy that I no longer expound this kind of "what I do is YOUR fault/the problems I cause are YOUR fault" stuff.

Your own story shows you've taken this way beyond "just having a little fun."

I know you reject my judgmentalism. I also rejject your weirdly-misplaced defensiveness.
 
NICE!!!!!

Carzier...

First off... that sucks if you do loose your job.

that being said....

THIS IS THE FUCKIN BEST STORY I HAVE EVER HEARD!!!!

Bro.. you are a ROCK STAR!!! Do you know how many times I have done shit like move the tree in the lobby?? I can totally imagine this whole thing happening to me!!!

I was wondering where the hell you were.. I kinda had this feeling that some messed up shit has happened to you.. but now look at it this way.. you have 2 of the best threads on elite... this one.. is by far the BEST!!! Second is the Beat the shit out of my roomate...

You are still young.. most lame assholes could never imagine doing anything this fun!!! This is somthing that you will be able to look back on and laugh.

as for the weed.. there is NO WAY either of these are felonies!!! If either of them were.. your ass would not have been turned loose by that cop!! Think about it.. it also sounds that in the world of criminal charges you are not well versed.. what I mean is, you have never been charged with any kind of drug possesion.. so don't sweat it... get ready for some community service and a fine. NO WAY this is a felony.

don't sweat it!!!
 
None of these are felonies, I promise you that....

In fact I think they are all simple misdemeanors, dont swaet it bro. You will be able to plea bargain most of it away and will get nothing more than a fine...


Addickt
 
gymtime - Actually, I was awaiting your father figure advice. ;)
Thanks for the words my friend... I appreciate it.

dballer - :) I wish I had the salary of a rock star! It's amazing how much the 'moving the tree idea' is gonna cost me. I'm glad to hear neither of these charges are felonies though. Thanks bro.

smokinghawk - Eat shit and die. Seriously man. Do you not see that I have no problem stepping up to the plate and receiving my punishment? And also, I don't know about you, but I live in this place called America that gives even 'criminals like myself' rights. One of those rights is the freedom of illegal search and seizure.
A police officer couldn't have even done with the little boy security guard did. I fail to see how you could think that it is right. Sure, my possesion of dope wasn't legal... but he never should have found it in the first place. How many people would go to jail today if cops just came into their house and started searching through their shit without probable cause or a warrant??? I'd say about 80% of Elite. If I was out of the balcony smoking dope and a cop caught me... fine. I broke the law, and I realize I run a risk everyday that I smoke pot. To me, the risk is worth the reward. Don't talk me down son, especially since you are a former pothead. You fucking hypocrit.
--
 
Crazier said:
... One of those rights is the freedom of illegal search and seizure.
A police officer couldn't have even done with the little boy security guard did. ...
This may, in fact, be perfectly legal. The differences occur when you are on the property of another entity ... in this case, the hotel owner. The laws of the state may provide exceptions to searches and seizure when on another's property or signing the agreement when you check in may constitute waiving any rights against searching your room for things the hotel considers damaging (and this includes damages to its reputation) or dangerous. In essence, the agreement you sign when you check in is not like the lease to your appartment ... where you would have greater protection under the Fourth Amendment. Your behavior with the tree gave the security guys, who are agents of the property, cause to perform a search. And, yes, a police officer could make this same search with permission of the hotel.
 
I don't refute any of that Rock. I checked into it, since it was a hotel I didn't know if I still had the same rights as I do in my house or an apartment. I didn't mean to indicate that I felt a right of mine had necessarily been violated in this scenario... just that if this was a common practice (searching through other people's shit) a lot of us would be in jail. I need to talk to an attorney to be sure you don't have the same right's as you do when you sign a lease of an apartment. Technically, that's not yours either. Neither is this house I'm renting. But I don't ever have people storm through the front door, and start searching through all my shit.

While a law may not have been violated in the search, I don't feel as though it should have been against the law for me to have my personal stash of marijuana I was going to smoke in the bathtub.

For all the reasons below. As I most likely no longer have a job, it is my intention to relieve the world of their ignorance. I'll start now. Anybody reading the below that feels the same way as I do on the matter... something can be done. 60 some odd years ago, if people that were bootlegging alcohol just figured it was a helpless fight, that no matter what they did... nothing would be changed anyway, you and I would never have gotten to drink an alcoholic beverage legally. There would also be a lot more parent's, businessman, son's, daughter's, brothers and sisters, and grandparent's alike in jail for a victimless crime... which actually has much more of a victim (the wife lying on the floor right now that just got socked from her drunk husband, the parent's mourning their child because of a drunk driving accident, the list goes on and on my friends) than smoking marijuana by an unbelievable factor. If you feel strongly about the matter, stand up for what you have passion for. This is going to spark a new poll.

CANNABIS PROHIBITION - A VERY SERIOUS CRIME
Please distribute widely

Cannabis is safe

INTRODUCTION.

Cannabis has been misrepresented and mis-classified in both national and international law, as a "drug" that is:

dangerous to health, and
of no therapeutic value.
Herein, I indicate and present some of the hard scientific that reveals the falsity of those beliefs and hence the very 'wrongness' and injustice of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, UK, and other cannabis prohibition legislation world-wide. At best that prohibition is a grievous error, at worst a deep-rooted conspiracy amongst profit-motivated tyrants and businessmen (believed by many).

Consider this:

the UK Government has already been presented with some of this evidence, t
the press have reported the safety aspects and medical benefits of cannabis many times,
the UK Government have refused to comment on this information,
the UK Government have rejected reports from experts in health, in medicine and in law,
the present Labour Government have refused a Royal Commission saying that even should such a body declare that cannabis should be made legal again they would not listen.
Does this not suggest 'False Law' is favoured over justice? That is, a law that is anti-health, anti-public order, anti-justice, anti-environment that enables and ensures the profits of many massive multi-national cooperations that produce damaging synthetic alternatives to hemp.

In any case a False Law based upon false information, is a CRIME. That the Governments of this world mostly so stubbornly support a law that, we claim, they KNOW to be a false law makes the guilt ten fold heavier.

That many Governments yet refuse to grant legal access to this beneficial plant for the many sick and dying of this world, refuse therein to enable the production of food from the seed and pollution-free fuel from the biomass, is indeed a VERY SERIOUS CRIME - A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

THE EVIDENCE.

In the light of the Rulings of DEA Judge Francis Young (1988) and the Articles of both the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human rights and the European Convention for The Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, the denial of an effective medicine to people is a very serious CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY. All Governments and authorities that participate in this denial are guilty of very serious crimes.

This information should be distributed widely so that the Heads of States and Governments, and the courts, are aware that it is in the public domain.

Here is some of the important SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE. It is followed by an excerpt from the rulings of Judge Young and the Articles of the International treaties.

Pot Smokers Just As Healthy - Study: National Post (Canada), 11 June 2001

UK: Natural Cannabis Better Than Extracts: BBC News (UK Web), 5 April 2001

1) Cannabis may help prevent lung cancer
"Marijuana Use and Mortality", American Journal of Public Health, April 1997.

Table 2 provides data on the relative risk of death for ever users and current users of marijuana, by sex and cause of death: Kaiser Permanente Medical care Program, Oakland and San Francisco, June 1979 to December 1985 (n=65,171), section regarding cancer (Neoplasms) as the cause of death. The table shows that men and women who are or have smoked cannabis but not tobacco have a lesser risk of developing cancer than those who were non-smokers of both marijuana and tobacco. see: http://www.paston.co.uk/users/webbooks/cancdata.html

Ireland: Cannabis Eases Cancer Sickness, Study Finds: Irish Examiner, 6 July 2001

2) Cannabis may help slow down natural cognitive decline
"Cannabis use and cognitive decline in persons under 65 years of age", American Journal of Epidemiology, Vol 149, No 9 pages 794-800, 1999.

Table 3 shows the mean change in Mini-Mental State Examination (MMSE) score between wave 2 (1982) and wave 3 (1993-1996) in men and women, by level of cannabis use, Baltimore Epidemiologic Catchment Area study follow-up.

A deterioration in Mental Functioning occurs in all age groups as a natural function of ageing and exposure to toxins. We see less cognitive decline among marijuana smokers than non-users. The authors also acknowledge alcohol and tobacco as two of the prime causes of cognitive decline. They did not publish their conclusion that cannabis caused a significant difference because the measured values were close, the difference between cannabis smokers and tobacco /alcohol users is undeniable. see http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99.n1330.a12.html

3) Cannabis may kill brain tumours

The type of tumour, a glioma, is relatively uncommon but fatal in humans. Dr Ismael Galve-Roperh and his team at Complutense University, Madrid, infused tetrahydrocannibinol (THC) into the rats' brains through tubes. In a third of the rats, the tumour was eliminated. Another third lived for an extra six weeks instead of dying within two to three. Another third gained no benefit. The team reports in Nature Medicine that the treatment works by stimulating the cancer cells to commit suicide in a natural process called apoptosis. The effect occurs in cancer cells but not in normal ones and, they say, "could provide the basis for a new therapeutic approach for the treatment of malignant gliomas".
The Times, February 20, 2000
see also
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n289.a05.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n289.a09.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n289.a08.html

4) Cannabis counteracts the effects of strokes and may help prevent Parkinson's Disease and ALZHEIMER'S

A team led by the British-born biologist Aidan Hampson, at the US National Institute for Mental Health, in Maryland, has discovered that two active components of cannabis - compounds called THC and cannabidiol - will each act to prevent damage to brain tissue placed in laboratory dishes.
The experiments, reported in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, reveal an unexpected potential use for a drug known for centuries to have valuable medical properties. The discovery is likely to increase pressure to make marijuana and its derivatives more widely available for use on prescription.... Dr Hampson's study has focused on cannabidiol, rather than the psychoactive chemical THC, because this substance has no side-effects. ..Stroke victims suffer a blood clot that starves brain cells of glucose and oxygen, and sets off a cascade of chemical reactions which destroys cells. He found that both cannabis compounds seemed to block the destructive process. Some drugs work well in test tubes, but fail in living creatures because they do not reach the target. Cannabis compounds go straight to the brain.
The results suggest that cannabidiol could also become a treatment for other neurological disorders, such as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases. Dr Hampson said: "We have something that passes the brain barrier easily, has low toxicity, and appears to be working in the animal trials. So I think we have a good chance. (The Guardian, July 4 1999)
See
http://www.paston.co.uk/users/webbooks/guard4jy.html

5) Cannabis relieves pain.

Cannabis has been used to relieve various types of pain since the time of the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient China. There have been literally thousands of testimonials claiming relief from pain from everything from spinal injury to menstrual pains. Recently scientists have confirmed the pain-relieving properties of cannabis.
UK: Cannabis Spray Helps Ease Pain: MSNBC, 3 September 2001
UK: Cannabis Tests Offer Pain Sufferers New Hope: Reuters, 2 May 2001
See also
UK: Patients with chronic pain react well to trial: Irish Times, 4 September 2001
UK: Cannabis Dramatically Improves Pain Relief: BBC News, 3 September 2001
UK: New Trial Shows Cannabis Works: Evening Standard, 3 September 2001
http://www.drcnet.org/wol/060.html#painrelief
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98.n833.a04.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98.n834.a04.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98.n634.a03.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98.n1148.a08.html
see also: Daily Telegraph, UK, Tuesday, October 12 1999

Rheumatoid Arthritis
UK: Rheumatoid Arthritis Treatment From Cannabis: BBC News (UK Web), 1 August 2000
UK: Marijuana May Be Just The Thing For Joints: Financial Times, 4 August 2000

6) Cannabis eases the symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis

NEW YORK, Mar 01 (Reuters Health) - Add the degenerative neurological disease multiple sclerosis (MS) to the list of ailments that might be relieved by marijuana. On the heels of a report that found THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, holds promise as a treatment for a rare brain cancer, another study shows that THC and other cannabinoid compounds relieve MS-like symptoms in laboratory mice.
The evidence is strong enough to justify the testing of these substances in people with MS, researchers report.
"For some years there has been anecdotal evidence that some people with multiple sclerosis have found relief from symptoms such as painful spasms by using cannabis," one of the study's authors, Dr. Lorna Layward, of the MS Society of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, said in a statement.
"This research sets that evidence in context."
"The study provides a firm basis for the human trials of cannabis in MS that will commence shortly," she said.
In studies of mice with an MS-like disease, Layward and colleagues found that tremors in the mice improved within 10 minutes of being treated with a man-made cannabinoid that attached to structures in the brain called cannabinoid receptors.
Reuters, March 1 2000

UK: Life Not Worth Living Without Cannabis, MS Man Tells Jury: Manchester, 22 March 2001

see also:
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n302.a02.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n302.a08.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n302.a05.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n302.a09.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n302.a11.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n302.a12.html

7) Cannabis helps the eyesight and help prevent Glaucoma

Scientists have found a family of chemicals that includes the "psychoactive" ingredients of marijuana plays a role in vision. For the first time, "receptor" proteins activated by these compounds - cannabinoids - - have been reported in the eye, providing a missing link in the understanding of the retina. "The scientific literature on marijuana, the known effects of cannabinoids in other parts of the brain and the places we find the receptor in the retina all make plausible the notion that cannabinoids may well have an effect on light sensitivity or light-dark adaptation," said Alex Straiker of the University of California, San Diego.However the retina is "incredibly complex", so this remains only a possibility, said Straiker, principal author of the report on the prevalence of receptors - docking points for cannabinoids - in the retina. The paper appears today in the "Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences". It is co-authored by scientists from the Neurosciences Institute in San Diego and the University of Washington in Seattle.
National Post (Canada), December 7 1999
see:
The Daily Telegraph (UK), Tuesday 7 December 1999
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99.n1326.a12.html
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99.n1321.a09.html

8) Cannabis helps prevent epileptic attacks.
see:
http://www.ukcia.org/medical/epilepsy.html

This list is not exhaustive. However, it does provide powerful and irrefutable evidence that
1) Cannabis has many uses as a medicine
2) The prevention of the use of cannabis is of detrimental effect on the heath on almost every person in the world, resulting in unnecessary pain, debilitation, and premature death.
3) The classification of cannabis in national law or international treaty as a drug with no medicinal value is at best a grave error.

THE JUDGE'S RULING
This is what the USA's own Drug Enforcement Administration's Judge, Francis Young, said in 1988 about marijuana (cannabis)
"In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating ten raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. "Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care." see Judge Young's Rulings

The REPORT OF THE FCDA, EUROPE

"Denial of general legal availability of life-saving Preventive Cannabis premeditatedly and maliciously causes early deaths. By definition and in Law, this constitutes Murder (UK) - Homicide (US). The acute need of politicians, bureaucrats and others implicated, to try and cover up their wrong-doing and culpability for their Capital Crimes and other Crimes Against Humanity, explains the conspiratorial fictions invented and circulated which derogate benign Cannabis. Motive - behind the installing of Prohibition further explains this behaviour"
The Report of the FCDA, Europe, 5th Ed, 1997

United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms (ECHR)

Article 3 of the UN Declaration recognises the Right to "Life, Liberty and security of person." This is Article 5 of the ECHR.
. How can a person be expected to feel secure when ill or when a member of the family is ill? The prohibition of a safe preventative and curative medicine is a contravention of these Rights.

Article 5 of the UN Declaration recognises the Right not to be subjected to "torture, cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment". It is Article 3 in the ECHR.
The denial of a medicine to sick and well people is tantamount to torture and certainly results in degradation.

Article 12 of the UN Declaration recognises the Right to privacy, family, home ...". This is Article 8 of the ECHR.
The implementation of the prohibition of cannabis through the sometimes armed raiding of people in their own homes and often separation from their families, without justifiable cause, is an infringement upon these Rights.

Article 18 of the UN Declaration grants the Right to "Freedom of though, conscience and religion... and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion of belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance." This is Article 9 of the ECHR.
The denial of people's rights, without justification, to use cannabis to their personal benefit, alone or in community, and the Right to supply a natural plant as a therapeutic agent within a community, is a blatant contravention of this Right. It is applicable to those members of religious communities who use cannabis but not limited to religion.


The implementation of the prohibition of cannabis itself causes further violations to Human Rights

Inferences:

The prohibition of cannabis is an offence under Supreme and International Law. Government employees who participate in the application of the Misuse of Drugs Act upon the people of your country, including prosecution and defence solicitors who ignore Human rights, police, forensic scientists, prison officers, politicians, etc, are guilty of malfeasance. If they have been told of their crime, then the guilt is magnified.

The prohibition of cannabis creates unnecessary suffering and premature death. It is tantamount to Homicide (USA) and murder, as ruled by the eminent US Judge.

CANNABIS IS SAFE


Claims of various degrees of harmfulness and danger associated with the smoking of cannabis are often cited by prohibitionists and those who favour regulated legalisation alike.

Whilst many people agree that prohibition is unjust and ineffective, they differ in their opinions on the needs for regulations. Whilst few would want unnecessary regulations and limitations legislated onto cannabis once legal, few also would want to see no regulations installed if indeed necessary. It is therefore vital that we attempt to reach some sort of conclusion on the harm or potential harm through individual or widespread cannabis use.

I have personally read many reports from scientific and empirical studies on actual cannabis use, as well as some of those based upon laboratory tests carried out on mice, rats, rabbits and monkeys, using concentrated and synthetic THC - tetrahydrocannabinol - one of the main active ingredients found in the parts of the cannabis plant used recreationally and medically, particularly the tops and heads.

My own studies of the evidence from both sides has led me to the following conclusions:

1) All of the allegations of harm are based upon dubious work, laboratory experiments not involving cannabis and not involving tests on humans, and unreliable anecdote often exaggerated and g by drug workers.

2) Cannabis is indeed "remarkably safe" and free from danger, barring of course the obvious dangers of being hit over the head with a large lump of resin.

"We.. say that on the medical evidence available, moderate indulgence in cannabis has little ill-effect on health, and that decisions to ban or legalise cannabis should be based on other considerations.":

The Lancet, vol 352, number 9140, November 14 1998

As it is nonsensical to attempt to prove any substance to be completely harmless under all circumstances, I am tackling this issue by listing the various harm allegations and counteracting them with quotes from and references to the experts.

Myth: Cannabis is toxic / poisonous

From: OPINION AND RECOMMENDED RULING, FINDINGS OF FACT, CONCLUSIONS OF LAW AND DECISION OF Administrative LAW JUDGE, DATED: SEP 6 1988

Findings of Fact:

"4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality.

"5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.

"6. By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year.

"7. Drugs used in medicine are routinely given what is called an LD-50. The LD-50 rating indicates at what dosage fifty percent of test animals receiving a drug will die as a result of drug induced toxicity. A number of researchers have attempted to determine marijuana's LD-50 rating in test animals, without success. Simply stated, researchers have been unable to give animals enough marijuana to induce death.

"8. At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around 1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

"9. In practical terms, marijuana cannot induce a lethal response as a result of drug-related toxicity.

"10. Another common medical way to determine drug safety is called the therapeutic ratio. This ratio defines the difference between a therapeutically effective dose and a dose which is capable of inducing adverse effects.

"11. A commonly used over-the-counter product like aspirin has a therapeutic ratio of around 1:20. Two aspirins are the recommended dose for adult patients. Twenty times this dose, forty aspirins, may cause a lethal reaction in some patients, and will almost certainly cause gross injury to the digestive system, including extensive internal bleeding.

"12. The therapeutic ratio for prescribed drugs is commonly around 1:10 or lower. Valium, a commonly used prescriptive drug, may cause very serious biological damage if patients use ten times the recommended (therapeutic) dose.

"13. There are, of course, prescriptive drugs which have much lower therapeutic ratios. Many of the drugs used to treat patients with cancer, glaucoma and multiple sclerosis are highly toxic. The

therapeutic ratio of some of the drugs used in antineoplastic therapies, for example, are regarded as extremely toxic poisons with therapeutic ratios that may fall below 1:1.5. These drugs also have very low LD-50 ratios and can result in toxic, even lethal reactions, while being properly employed.

"14. By contrast, marijuana's therapeutic ratio, like its LD-50, is impossible to quantify because it is so high."



In the journal FUNDAMENTAL AND APPLIED TOXICOLOGY, Dr. William Slikker, director of the Neurotoxicology Division of the National Center for Toxicological Research (NCTR), described the health of monkeys exposed to very high levels of cannabis for an extended period:

"The general health of the monkeys was not compromised by a year of marijuana exposure as indicated by weight gain, carboxyhemoglobin and clinical chemistry/hematology values."

(TOXICOLOGY LETTERS, No Increase in Carcinogen-DNA Adducts in the Lungs of Monkeys Exposed Chronically to Marijuana Smoke, 1992, Dec;63 (3): 321-32.

THE ARKANSAS TIMES (Refer Madness. 16 Sept 1993) asked Dr. Merle Paule of NCTR about evidence of cannabis toxicity and the health of the monkeys in the study, Dr. Paule said,

"There's just nothing there. They were all fine."

Myth: Cannabis intoxicates

This is really a matter of semantics, as, strictly speaking, a non-toxic substance cannot 'intoxicate'.

"intoxication" is usually and often detectable simply by a detrimental effect upon motor and cognitive skills; these are covered below.

Myth: Cannabis is addictive

Here we must distinguish between firstly, addictiveness and dependency, and secondly, between medical and psychological dependency.

Medical dependency is not really the issue here, since it is perfectly natural and acceptable for a person to be dependent upon a medicine to ease their suffering, given that the medicine is at least reasonably and acceptably safe.

TRENDS IN PHARMACOLOGICAL SCIENCES: Neurobiology of Marijuana Abuse. 1992, 13:201-206. pg. 203:

"research shows cannabis has limited potential for development of...psychological dependence due to the weak reinforcing properties of Delta-9-THC."

BRAIN RESEARCH JOURNAL: Chronic cannabinoid administration alters cannabinoid receptor binding in rat brain: a quantitative autoradiographic study. 1993, 616:293-302. pg. 300.

"cannabinoid dependence and withdrawal phenomena are minimal."

The Shafer Commission (USA) of 1970 said:

"Marijuana does not lead to physical dependency, although some evidence indicates that the heavy, long-term users may develop a psychological dependence on the drug"

The Panama Canal Zone Military Investigations (US Military, 1929) said:

"There is no evidence that Marihuana as grown and used [in the Canal Zone] is a 'habit-forming' drug."

In 1997, (R. v Clay), Ontario Justice John McCart (Canada) ruled, "Cannabis is not an addictive substance." B.C. Justice F.E. Howard in a similar case confirmed his findings in 1998.

US Department of Health and Human Services, 1991:

"Given the large population of marijuana users and the infrequent reports of medical problems from stopping use, tolerance and dependence are not major issue at present."

("Drug Abuse and Drug Abuse Research, Rockville, MD, (1991) p C3

Myth: Cannabis causes hallucinations

Report of the Australian Government, 1996: "Cannabis has been erroneously classified as a narcotic, as a sedative and most recently as an hallucinogen. While the cannabinoids do possess hallucinogenic properties, together with stimulant and sedative effects, they in fact represent a unique pharmacological class of compounds. Unlike many other drugs of abuse, cannabis acts upon specific receptors in the brain and periphery. The discovery of the receptors and the naturally occurring substances in the brain that bind to these receptors is of great importance, in that it signifies an entirely new pathway system in the brain."

Myth: Cannabis causes cancer

BOSTON, Jan. 30, 1997 (UPI):

"The U.S. federal government has failed to make public its own 1994 study that undercuts its position that marijuana is carcinogenic - a $2 million study by the National Toxicology Program. The program's deputy director, John Bucher (http://www.niehs.nih.gov/dirtob/bucher.htm), says the study "found absolutely no evidence of cancer." In fact, animals that received THC had fewer cancers. Bucher denies his agency had been pressured to shelve the report, saying the delay in making it public was due to a personnel shortage.

CANCER PREVENTION DATA

"Marijuana Use and Mortality": AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH, April 1997:

TABLE 2 Relative Risk of Death for Ever Users and Current Users of Marijuana, by Sex and Cause of Death: Kaiser Pemanente Medical Care Program Members (n = 65,171), Oakland and San Francisco, June 1979 through December

1985 - section of table regarding cancer (Neoplasms) as the cause of death:

MEN

Ever Users Relative Risk of Cancer Death

Full Model 0.78

Non-smokers/ Occasional Drinkers 0.46

Current Users

Full Model 0.97

Non-smokers/ Occasional Drinkers 0.75

WOMEN

Ever Users

Full Model 0.82

Non-smokers/ Occasional Drinkers 0.70

Current Users

Full Model 0.86

Non-smokers/ Occasional Drinkers 0.56

Here, numbers less than one for Relative Risk of Cancer Death represent a lower rate of fatal cancer among marijuana smokers in the large Kaiser Study from California. For example, women who are current marijuana smokers but did not smoke tobacco were found to have only 56% of the risk of cancer death as compared to other women who were non-smokers of both tobacco and marijuana.

Not only is the evidence linking cannabis smoking to cancer negative, but the largest human studies cited indicated that cannabis users had lower rates of cancer than nonusers. What's more, those who smoked both cannabis and tobacco had lower rates of lung cancer than those who smoked only tobacco-a strong indication of chemoprevention. Even more, in 1975 researchers at the Medical College of Virginia found that cannabis showed powerful antitumour activity against both benign and malignant tumours (the government then banned all future cannabis/cancer research).

(The Emperor Wears No Cloths. Jack Herer, Queen of Clubs Pub, 1991)

(Ganja in Jamaica: A Medical Anthropological Study of Chronic Marijuana Use. 1975. Anchor Books)

(Cannabis in Costa Rica: A Study of Chronic Marijuana Use, 1980-82, Institute for the Study of Human Issues, 3401 Science Center Philadelphia, PA.)

The NEW ENGLISH DISPENSATORY of 1764 recommends boiled cannabis roots for the elimination of tumours.(Marijuana: The First 12,000 Years. Plenum Press, 1980)

Powerful evidence that cannabis not only does not cause cancer, but that it may prevent and even cure cancer.<http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_health2.shtml>

SO, YOU THOUGHT IT WAS THE TAR THAT CAUSED CANCER

Myth: Cannabis smoking damages the lungs

Researchers at the University of California (UCLA) School of Medicine have announced the results of an 8 - year study into the effects of long-term cannabis smoking on the lungs. In Volume 155 of the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine, Dr. D.P. Tashkin reported "Findings from the present long-term, follow-up study of heavy, habitual marijuana smokers argue against the concept that continuing heavy use of marijuana is a significant risk factor for the development of [chronic lung disease. ..Neither the continuing nor the intermittent marijuana smokers exhibited any significantly different rates of decline in [lung function]" as compared with those individuals who never smoked marijuana. Researchers added: "No differences were noted between even quite heavy marijuana smoking and non-smoking of marijuana."

Myth: Cannabis suppresses the immune system. Two studies in 1978 and 1988 showed that cannabis actually stimulated the immune system

From: "Exposing Marijuana Myths:(The Lindesmith Center)" "False: Marijuana Impairs Immune System Functioning "It has been widely claimed that marijuana substantially increases users' risk of contracting various infectious diseases. First emerging in the 1970s, this claim took on new significance in the 1980s, following reports of marijuana use by people suffering from AIDS.

"THE FACTS

"The principal study fueling the original claim of immune impairment involved preparations created with white blood cells that had been removed from marijuana smokers and controls. After exposing the cells to known immune activators, researchers reported a lower rate of transformation in those taken from marijuana smokers.

"However, numerous groups of scientists, using similar techniques, have failed to confirm this original study. "In fact, a 1988 study demonstrated an increase in responsiveness when white blood cells from marijuana smokers were exposed to immunological activators.

"Studies involving laboratory animals have shown immune impairment following administration of THC, but only with the use of extremely high doses. For example, one study demonstrated an increase in herpes infection in rodents given doses of 100 mg/kg/day -- a dose approximately 1000 times the dose necessary to produce a psychoactive effect in humans.

"There have been no clinical or epidemiological studies showing an increase in bacterial, viral, or parasitic infection among human marijuana users. In three large field studies conducted in the 1970s, in Jamaica, Costa Rica and Greece, researchers found no differences in disease susceptibility between marijuana users and matched controls.

"Marijuana use does not increase the risk of HIV infection; nor does it increase the onset or intensity of symptoms among AIDS patients. In fact, the FDA decision to approve the use of Marinol (synthetic THC) for use in HIV-wasting syndrome relied upon the absence of any immunopathology due to THC.

"Today, thousands of people with AIDS are smoking marijuana daily to combat nausea and increase appetite. There is no scientific basis for claims that this practice compromises their immune responses. Indeed, the recent discovery of a peripheral cannabinoid receptor associated with lymphatic tissue should encourage aggressive exploration of THC's potential use as an immune-system stimulant."From also Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts": Lynn Zimmer Ph.D. and John P. Morgan M.D. "At the 1981 conference on marijuana sponsored by the World Health Organisation and Canada's Addiction Research Foundation, reviewers of the research literature on immunity reported "There is no conclusive evidence that cannabis predisposes man to immune dysfunction". A few years late, in approving THC (Marinol) for use as a medicine, the FDA found no convincing evidence that THC caused immune impairment. In 1992, the FDA approved Marinol as an appetite stimulant specifically for AIDS patients, who have serious immunosuppression."Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts": Lynn Zimmer Ph.D. and John P. Morgan M.D. ISBN 0-9641568-4-9; page 107.Munson and Fehr (1983) note 15, page 338

Food and Drug Administration, "Unimed's Marinol (Dronabinol) Lau, R.J. et al "Phytohemagglutinin-Induced Lymphocyre Transformations in Humans Receiving Delta-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol," Science 192, 805-07 (1976)Dax, EM. Et al., "The Effects of 9_ENE-Tetrahydrcannabinol on Hormone Release and Immune Function," Journal of Steroid Biochemistry 34: 263-70 (1989)Myth: Cannabis causes impotency / infertility

From: "Exposing Marijuana Myths: (The Lindesmith Center)" page 93;"Studies of men in the general population have also failed to find differences in the testosterone levels of marijuana users and nonusers. "There is no convincing evidence of infertility related to marijuana consumption in humans. "There are no epidemiological studies showing that men who use marijuana have higher rates of infertility than men who do not. Nor is there evidence of diminished reproductive capacity among men in countries where marijuana use is common."

Abel, E.L., et al, "Marijuana and Sex: A Critical Survey," Drug and Alcohol Dependence 8: 1-22 (1981)

Ehrenkranz, J.R.L. and Hembee, WC., "Effects of Marijuana on Male Reproductive Function," Psychiatric Annals 16: 243-49 (1986)

Cushman, P, "Plasma Testosterone Levels in Healthy Male Marijuana Smokers," American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse 2: 269-75 (1975)

Block, R I, et al, "Effects of Chronic Marijuana Use of Testosterone, Luteinizing Hormone, Follicle Stimulating Hormone, Prolactin and Cortisol in Men and women,"Drug and Alcohol Dependence 28,: 121-28 (1991)

Myth: Cannabis destroys short-term memory

The Australian Government Report 1996:

"The weight of the available evidence suggests that the long-term heavy use of cannabis does not produce any severe impairment of cognitive function."

Myth: Cannabis detrimentally effects motor co-ordination / driving skill

Crancer Study, Washington Department of Motor Vehicles:

"Simulated driving scores for subjects experiencing a normal social 'high' and the same subjects under control conditions are not significantly different. However, there are significantly more errors for alcohol intoxicated than for control subjects"

U.S. Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (DOT HS 808 078), Final Report, November 1993:"THC's adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small"

Sutton (1983) also found that cannabis had little effect on actual driving performance. "Driving in traffic, however, while showing a trend toward poorer performance, was not significantly affected, and the effects of cannabis were much more variable."

The Australian Government Report, 1996, page 6) "There is no controlled epidemiological evidence that cannabis users are at increased risk of being involved in motor vehicle or other accidents.

Myth: Cannabis detrimentally effects cognitive skills

US: Cannabis Use and Cognitive Decline in Persons under 65 Years of Age

Publication date: 1 May 1999

Source: American Journal of Epidemiology

Copyright: 1999 Johns Hopkins University School of Hygiene and Public Health

Ref: Am J Epidemiol 1999; 149:794-800

Mail: 111 Market Place, Suite 840, Baltimore MD 21202 U.S.A.

<http://www.jhsph.edu/Publications/JEPI/"> Website

Authors: Constantine G. Lyketsos, Elizabeth Garrett, Kung-Yee Liang, and James C. Anthony (Osler 320, The Johns Hopkins Hospital, 600 North Wolfe Street, Baltimore, MD 21287-5371)

"The purpose of this study was to investigate possible adverse effects of cannabis use on cognitive decline after 12 years in persons under age 65 years. This was a follow-up study of a probability sample of the adult household residents of East Baltimore. The analyses included 1,318 participants in the Baltimore, Maryland, portion of the Epidemiologic Catchment Area study who completed the Mini-Mental State (MMSE) examination during three study waves in 1981, 1982, and 1993--1996.

Individual MMSE score differences between waves 2 and 3 were calculated for each study participant. After 12 years, study participants' scores declined a mean of 1.20 points on the MMSE (standard deviation 1.90), with 66% having scores that declined by at least one point.Significant numbers of scores declined by three points or more (15% of participants in the 18--29 age group). There were no significant differences in cognitive decline between heavy users, light users, and nonusers of cannabis.

There were also no male-female differences in cognitive decline in relation to cannabis use. The authors conclude that over long time periods, in persons under age 65 years, cognitive decline occurs in all age groups

This decline is closely associated with ageing and educational level but does not appear to be associated"

Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church Study, 1980

"Some participants had smoked at least two to four large cigarettes (each containing 1/4 to 1/2 ounce of cannabis) over 16 hours a day for periods of up to 50 years.

"...the most impressive thing... is the true paucity of neurological abnormalities.

"Heavy cannabis consumers suffered no apparent psychological or physical harm. "Schaeffer: A Neuropsychological Evaluation; A Case History"...I.Q.'s of Zion Coptics increased after they began to use ganga"

US Jamaican Study 1974:

"No impairment of physiological, sensory and perceptual performance, tests of concept formation, abstracting ability, and cognitive style, and tests of memory"

Myth: Cannabis causes a-motivation / laziness

We must of course distinguish between those people who are naturally or by habit or psychological so set as lazy or a-motivated, and any such a-motivation caused by cannabis consumption.

Dr. Andrew Weil (Rubin & Comitas Ganja in Jamaica, 1975) said "a-motivation [is] a cause of heavy marijuana smoking rather than the reverse"

In 1997, (R. v Clay), Ontario Justice John McCart (Canada) ruled, "Cannabis ... does not cause a motivational syndrome." His findings were confirmed by B.C. Justice F.E. Howard in a similar case in 1998

Myth: Cannabis use leads to the use of hard drugs

Considering the millions of people in the UK, and the hundreds of millions around the world, who have used cannabis for short or long periods, it is clear that if it led to the use of hard and addictive drugs there would be many more new addicts that we have seen.

We must, here, also remember that under the UK and other government policies of "tackling drugs together", under a regime that prohibits hard drugs alongside cannabis, where the supplies remain in criminal control, it is often the case that people may be led from one substance to another by their peers and by their suppliers. This does not of course mean that cannabis itself is a gateway or hard drug use.

We must also remember that at least a proportion of cannabis users may be people prone to trying other substances, whether by way of n, research, 'spiritual' quest, or psychological imbalance.

The LaGuardia sub-committee of New York 1944 said:

"The use of marijuana does not lead to morphine or heroin or cocaine addiction and no effort is made to create a market for these narcotics by stimulating the practice of marijuana smoking"

"Marijuana: Facts for Teens." U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Washington, D.C. 1995, p.10.: "Most marijuana users do not go on to use other drugs." :

Jack Straw, The Daily Telegraph, 3 April 2000: "While it is undoubtedly the case that many drug addicts started with cannabis, to claim that taking cannabis is bound to lead to hard drugs has always seemed to me far-fetched."

Drugs Policy in the Netherlands (1995): Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport "Moreover, users of soft drugs do not as a rule tend to experiment with hard drugs, such as heroin or cocaine; this is indeed the intention of the policy of keeping the markets separate. There is little use of heroin and cocaine among minors in the Netherlands, and the trend is towards even less. "Myth: Increased availability will lead to increased usage"

Drugs Policy in the Netherlands (1995): Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport"4.1. Extent and nature of cannabis use

"The decriminalisation of the possession of soft drugs in 1976 did not result in increased use. The level of consumption stabilised in the first few years after the Opium Act was amended. According to national figures, use again increased somewhat between 1984 and 1994, a trend which has also been observed elsewhere. Indeed, the United States has experienced a considerable increase in recent years. "Both as regards the extent of cannabis use and trends in use, the Netherlands differs very little from other countries.

"As already indicated, the number of users of soft drugs has increased after falling in the 1970s. Patterns of consumption are overwhelmingly recreational, though among certain specific categories of young people, such as chronic truants and street children, the use of cannabis can be described as very substantial and intensive.

"The policy pursued by the Netherlands does not appear to have led to an increase in use, though there are indications that the existence of freely accessible coffee shops means that certain users continue to use the drugs for longer.

"Conclusions and policy intentions

"The decriminalisation of the possession of quantities of soft drugs for personal use and the existence of sales points tolerated under certain circumstances by the authorities have not resulted in a worryingly high level of consumption among young people. Moreover, users of soft drugs do not as a rule tend to experiment with hard drugs, such as heroin or cocaine; this is indeed the intention of the policy of keeping the markets separate. There is little use of heroin and cocaine among minors in the Netherlands, and the trend is towards even less."The effects of partial decriminalisation on cannabis use in South Australia, 1985 to 1993 National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre, University of New South Wales, Sydney Aust J Public Health, 19: 3, 1995 Jun, 281-7:"

In 1987 the Cannabis Expiration Notice scheme decreased penalties for the personal use of cannabis in South Australia. Data from four National Campaign Against Drug Abuse (NCADA) household drug-use surveys covering the period 1985 to 1993 were analysed to measure the effect of the decriminalisation on cannabis use. The main outcomes used were the self-reported prevalence rates of having ever used cannabis and current weekly use. Logistic regression was used to control for the potentially confounding effects of age and sex. Other outcomes were rates of having ever been offered cannabis and willingness to use cannabis if offered it. Between 1985 and 1993 the adjusted prevalence rate of ever having used cannabis increased in South Australia from 26 per cent to 38 per cent. There were also significant increases in Victoria and Tasmania, and to a lesser extent in New South Wales. The increase in South Australia was not significantly greater than the average increase (P = 0.1). Adjusted rates of weekly use increased between 1988 and 1991 in South Australia, but did not change through 1993. Although the effect was in the direction of a greater increase in South Australia, this was not statistically significant when compared to increases in the rest of Australia (P = 0.07). The greatest increase in adjusted weekly use occurred in Tasmania between 1991 and 1993, from 2 per cent to 7 per cent. Although the NCADA survey data indicate that there were increases in cannabis use in South Australia in 1985-1993, they cannot be attributed to the effects of partial decriminalisation, because similar increases occurred in other states"

And now, some general quotes on the health effects of smoking cannabis:

March 20, 1997, Sydney, Australia: The National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre in Australia. The study, which involved interviews with 268 marijuana smokers and 31 non-using partners and family members, is one of the first ever conducted in Australia to determine the effects of long-term marijuana use. Its findings were reported by the Sydney Morning Herald last month. "We don't see evidence of high psychological disturbance among the [long- term users,]" said chief investigator David Reilly. "The results seem unremarkable; the exceptional thing is that the respondents are unexceptional. "The Report of the Australian Government 1996 says: "The ... major possible adverse effects of chronic, heavy cannabis use ... remain to be confirmed"

"The major health and psychological effects of chronic cannabis use, especially daily use over many years, remain uncertain"

"As has been stressed ... there is uncertainty. ......To varying degrees....inferences from animal research, laboratory studies, and clinical observations about probable ill effects. In some cases inferences depend upon arguments from what is known about the adverse effects of other drugs, such as tobacco and alcohol".

"The probable and possible adverse health and psychological effects of cannabis need to be placed in comparative perspective to be fully appreciated".

The USA Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy (1987) says:

"Cannabis can be used on an episodic but continual basis without evidence of social or psychic dysfunction. In many users the term dependence with its obvious connotations, probably is mis-applied... The chief opposition to the drug rests on a moral and political, and not toxicologic, foundation".

Jamaican Study 1970 :"... as a multipurpose plant, ganga is used medicinally, even by non-smokers. ....There were no indications of organic brain damage or chromosome damage among smokers and no significant clinical psychiatric, psychological or medical) differences between smokers and controls."

UK Royal Commission, The Wootton Report, UK, 1968: "Having reviewed all the material available to us we find ourselves in agreement with the conclusion reached by the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission appointed by the Government of India (1893-94) and the New York Mayor's Committee (1944 - LaGuardia) that the long-term consumption of cannabis in moderate doses has no harmful effects"

LaGuardia Commission Report, 1944" Cannabis smoking] does not lead directly to mental or physical deterioration... Those who have consumed marijuana for a period of years showed no mental or physical deterioration which may be attributed to the drug"

Panama Canal Zone Report, 1925"

There is no evidence... that any deleterious influence on the individual using [cannabis]"

Indian Hemp Drugs Commission, 1894

"The commission has come to the conclusion that the moderate use of hemp drugs is practically attended by no evil results at all. ... ...moderate use of hemp... appears to cause no appreciable physical injury of any kind,... no injurious effects on the mind... [and] no moral injury whatever."

see also:

http://www.paston.co.uk/users/webboks/serious-crime.html

http://www.paston.co.uk/users/webbooks/goddard.html

Action.

It is the duty of every citizen who believes in Human Rights, Justice, Health and Freedom, to bring this to the attention of the PRESS world-wide, and their political representatives, MP's, Senators etc.

Please spread this information far and wide


Legalise Cannabis Alliance (LCA), PO Box 198, Norwich, Norfolk, NR2 2DH, UK; E-mail
Go back to the Index
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P.I.G.S. - The Enemies of Legalisation
P is for paranoia and fear of persecution.

This prevents cannabis users and non-users with a huge barrier to overcome before they can publicly speak out against prohibition. Users fear raids from the police and arrest, loss of employment and even imprisonment. Many professional people such as Doctors, Teachers, Lawyers, Probation Officers, Social Workers etc, although privately supporting legalisation or some lesser from of change in law, are afraid of persecution from people in power and the press. MP's of all parties can be silenced and pressurised to change their statements, by the Party Whips. Many Doctors quietly advise patients that cannabis is of possible benefit to them but will not make a public statement on the issue. If you are one of those professionals please speak out and help call an end to the suffering caused to hundreds of thousands of citizens of the UK, every year, under the inefficient and expensive attempts at suppressing freedom of choice, in general, cannabis in particular. If you are a user, fear not, for to express an opinion on the law is not an offense and does not indicate that you are a user. Many non-users advocate legalisation too.
I is for indifference and for ignorance.

Many non-users and people who are alienated from society through illness, poverty or riches and power, remain unconcerned or unaware of the disastrous social and environmental effects of prohibition. These people need to be awoken. Many of them are on drugs - heroin addicts, alcoholics, Valium addicts, at all rungs of the social ladder; they just don't care. But others do care, they just either don't know or don't know what they can do. It is up to activists to educate and guide these people to the postbox and the ballot boxes. Then, when they do care, we need to reassure them to avoid them slipping into the description of P.
G is for greed.

These are the highly profit-motivated suppliers of illegal cannabis, often of dubious quality, and those directors (and their minions) of the multinational corporations that profit by billions from their environmentally damaging synthetic and dangerous alternatives. These include petroleum companies who risk losses if hemp seed oil becomes widely available; pharmaceutical companies who would lose out if people take less of their synthetic drugs and more home grown cannabis; plastics and synthetic materials companies whose products could be replaced locally from locally grown cannabis; nuclear fuel and fossil fuel companies whose products could also be replaced by locally grown cannabis, far more efficiently and cheaply than for all modern fuels; timber companies who fear that cannabis would replace wood as a material for furnishing as well as paper and packing materials; breweries and tobacco companies who fear that the use of home grown cannabis would decrease the sales of their highly dangerous legal drugs; national and international criminal and terrorist organisations who profit from illegal cannabis, possibly even the secret services of certain countries (not yours, of course); police, solicitors, barristers, judges and prison staff, with all the associated industry at colossal public expense, who may be out of a job is 250,000 less people are searched and 100,000 less prosecuted, annually.
S is for squabblers and for separation.

Those people who continually insist upon arguing over matters of minor or academic differences which distract from the general cause of delay action towards the consensus aim of legalisation. Such arguments are divisive and unproductive, often originating from personal grievances. Some times such arguments are introduced by insincere campaigners, even infiltrators from corners supporting prohibition, whose aim is to suppress by division and mistrust. Other times the arguments may be prolonged by sincere people. When the squabble, due to personal grievances, interferes with actions of the general movement for legalisation, or any particular event or group, then the squabblers become enemies of the movement.

DON'T BE ANY PART OF PIGS.

WAKE UP, LEARN, ACT, COOPERATE,
BECOME INVOLVED IN THIS MOVEMENT WHICH IS ALL ABOUT FREEDOM OF CHOICE, LIFESTYLE AND RELIGION.
IT IS ABOUT THE VERY RIGHTS GRANTED BY THE UNITED NATIONS CHARTERS. PROHIBITION OF CANNABIS IS A PROLONGED ATTEMPT AT MIS-EDUCATION AND TYRANNICAL CONTROL, AND MUST BE RESISTED BY THE MASSES.

WE CAN GET CANNABIS LEGALISED VERY, VERY SOON.

Back to the index


CLCIA, 54C Peacock Street, Norwich, Norfolk, NR3 1TB, UK; E-mail CLCIA
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WRITING LETTERS


When you write letters try to keep to the point.

Newspapers seem to like letters which are provocative (to attract further letters), questioning and even humorous. Often a controversial letter against legalisation will provoke positive response from other readers.

Very few people write to the papers so if you keep trying you will eventually get published. You must put your full name and address and write 'FOR PUBLICATION' at the top.

You may need a different tone for MP's, MEP's etc. They are elected people and usually value votes much more close to an election. It is best just to write to your own MP since letters get passed to him or her anyway. You can write to MP's such as Tony Banks, or write to the party leaders. Also write to all your local candidates telling them your feelings and that you are reluctant to vote for a cannabis prohibitionist.

Here are a few points upon which to base letters:-

1. The huge social cost. Over half a billion pounds resulted in 83% drug arrests being for cannabis only, in 1994. The Department of Health does not recognise the need for specialised treatment of cannabis users. A gross waste of public funds.
2. Mass alienation. Over 7 million users. Young people alienated.
3. The law throws cannabis and its supply in with hard drugs.
4. The hypocrisy of laws which prohibit cannabis and allow alcohol and tobacco. 5. The law itself causes more damage than cannabis use. Loss of freedom, family, future plans, added criminal record, alienation, paranoia, social outcast, employment problems.
6. Humiliation of searches. Otherwise law abiding citizens. This is a strong point if you tell how it feels to be searched and questioned.
7. Unjust laws. Misplacement of cannabis in Single Convention etc. Misclassification as a narcotic in the 1920's
8. Waste of police time, court time, prison space at huge cost to taxpayer. It was about 400 miilion pounds in the UK in 1995.
9. Not a gateway drug.
10. Medicinal uses in particular personal stories of medical need. Many politicians now accept that people benefit from using cannabis in certain cases such as MS, Glaucoma, AIDS and cancer. They are beginning to accept that cannabis ought to be available medicinally ie on prescription. However, in the UK doctors are not allowed to prescribe plants and a cannabis pill would most likely be not smokeable, semi or fully synthetic. It would seem better that we advocate that medicinal users be allowed cannabis, ie allowed to grow their own or have somebody grow it for them, or buy it with all the protection of the law on quality and weight.
11. Not just dope; i.e. rope, fabric, fuel, medicine, sacrament paper, bricks, food, plastic, paint etc.
12. Decriminalisation no good because no quality control and left to the whims of the police and Prosecution services, varying from place to place and time to time. This is not justice. Also allowing the use of a substance which cannot be sold legally is illogical. This is a failure of the UK Green Part's stance for decriminalisation
13. Impurities and health hazards of illegal supply.
14. Smoking cannabis is harmless (quote Lancet and Judge Young).
15. Less harmful than tobacco. Not addictive. No non-medicinal dependency. Passive smoking no problem apart from smell?
16. Take the money out of hands of criminals and tax the profits.
17. Legal cannabis could be cheaper cannabis. Less crime. Although cannabis is not addictive some people who have addictive or dependent personalities may go to the extent of committing crimes to get money to buy it; legal cannabis would mean cheaper (home grown) cannabis and would inevitably lead to a drop in crime figures; on top of this is the drop in crime due entirely to legalisation.
18. Legalisation means deglorification.
19. Has been used for thousands of years, no deaths.
20. Cannabis in the Bible in the Holy Ointment and as the New Wine.
21. Prohibition is repressive of religious rights.
22. Prohibition contravenes United Nations Articles.
23. The Dutch situation and coffee shops. After an initial increase in the incidence of cannabis use in Holland after decriminalisation, the rate of increase fell off compared with other European countries. What is more the increase in the number of new drug addicts fell drastically compared with other countries.
24. Environmental uses; the Greenhouse Effect; soil erosion prevention.. When cannabis fuel is used the process only releases back into the atmosphere the same amount of carbon dioxide which was absorbed during the growing process several months earlier; in the case of fossil fuels the carbon dioxide was absorbed millions of years ago (by the growing trees), when the atmosphere was very different to now.
25. History of prohibition. The prohibition of commercially viable commodities has always failed - like alcohol prohibition in the USA; in 1997 India is considering withdrawing the prohibition of dangerous alcohol whereas they are tightening up on harmless cannabis which grows wild and has been used as a sacrament for centuries.
26. No adequate research can be done on illegal cannabis.
27. THC-free hemp cigarettes would be healthier than tobacco.
Keeping an eye on what other politicians do and say can invoke letters. e.g Jack Straw, Keith Hellawell, Charles Kennedy, Clare Short, Tony Banks, George Howarth.

Watch the press - articles about cannabis are appearing more and more. Each article is an opportunity to write, either agreeing or disagreeing and stating facts; your local press is up to you - if you don't write who will?
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QUICK FIRE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Q: Is cannabis harmful to health?
A: No, not pure cannabis. See The Lancet and Judge Young, The Merck Manual, LaGuardia, Wootton, Shafer, Jamaican Studies, Costa Rica Studies.

Q: Is cannabis a drug?

Q: Is cannabis poisonous? / Is there a fatal dose? A: No. It has been established that there is no conceivable toxic amount of cannabis for human beings. Medicinal substances frequently have a dosage above which death may follow after consumption. This quantity is known as the LD-50 rating - that is the dose above which 50 per cent of animals tested have dies. It has never been possible to give enough cannabis to an animal to kill it. It is estimated that the LD-50 for cannabis is around 1:20,000, which means that an average human would have to be given at least 20,000 times as much cannabis as is contained in the average joint or spliff. Based upon the dosage supplied to patients on the NIDA program in the USA, this would mean consumption of some 1500 pounds in weight of cannabis within 15 minutes to induce death. This of course is impossible and cannabis can accurately be described as non-toxic.
The figure of 20,000, sometimes quoted as 40,000, was based upon research carried out in the laboratory on mice using concentrated THC.

Q: Does cannabis intoxicate?
A: Not in the sense of losing control, which is what intoxication does. Toxins produce intoxication; cannabis is not toxic. The word "intoxicate" is semantically incorrectly applied to cannabis.

Q: Is cannabis THC?
A: Tetrahydrocannabinol is one of hundreds of cannabinoids in cannabis. THC is not cannabis, cannabis is not THC.

Q: What are the effects of cannabis?
A: We'd like to simply say 'take it and see' but that would be a crime! Cannabis relaxes alpha waves produced by the brain. The effect is usually mild, relaxing and pleasant. Any undesirable or unpleasant effects or high dosed or in the novice wears off as the cannabis wears off. It can produce giggles, increase concentration, stimulate appetite, help sleep etc. Many artists and sportsmen use cannabis. We must be careful to distinguish between the effects of pure cannabis and those of the dubious quality substances often sold on the street, which may contain drugs.

Q: Does cannabis damage the reproductive system?
A: No. This false claim was based on the work of Dr Gabriel Nahas who experimented with cells in Petri dishes. The scientific community has rejected Nahas' generalisation from the laboratory dish to human beings. Studies of humans have failed to reveal any damage. Moreover we all know plenty of people who have used cannabis for years and they all have plenty of normal, healthy children. See also Greek Studies.

Q: Does cannabis damage the immune system?
A: No. Again there is no evidence. Two studies in 1978 and one in 1988 showed that cannabis actually stimulates the immune system.

Q: Does cannabis impair short-term memory?
A: No. Some people may find themselves distracted whilst others find cannabis aids concentration and improves memory. That is why so many good musicians smoke cannabis and are able to remember complex series of notes and words.

Q: Is today's cannabis more potent than in the past?
No. It is about the same. In the past delays in analysis effected results. Potency cannot be determined by the amount of THC alone. The most potent form of cannabis that was probably that sold as 'American Cannabis' in the 1920's.

Q: What does cannabis smoke contain?
A: Over two thousand different chemicals, none of which produces harm. Compared with coffee, which contains over 800 volatile chemicals, only 21 of which have ever been tested on animals and 16 of those caused cancers in rats.

Q: How many convicted annually?
A: In 1994 there were over 72,000 convictions in the UK. This was 83% of 'drugs' convictions. This costs hundreds of millions of pounds.

Q: How many people die as a result of cannabis use?
A: None. Ever. It is not toxic, there is no overdose.

Q: Is cannabis addictive?
A: No. It is habit-forming only in the sense that it is natural to wish to repeat a pleasant experience. There is no withdrawal. One simply returns to whatever state one was in before consumption. See LaGuardia, Shafer.. But we must remember that those people with addictive personalities can come to psychologically depend on anything, and those using cannabis to ease their suffering may depend upon it as a medicine. This does not mean that the hundreds of millions of people worldwide are cannabis addicts.

Q: Is cannabis a 'gateway drug'?
A: No, otherwise the 5 million smokers of 1991 would be addicts of other drugs by now. The situation in Holland has confirmed that cannabis use does not lead to drug use. In any case a huge percentage of the population takes drugs of one sort or another. The fact that a lot of heroin users previously took cannabis does not suggest that most cannabis users will ever take heroin.

Q: Do you advocate the use of cannabis?
A: We would like to be able to advocate the medicinal use of cannabis in preference to many prescribed drugs, as well as advocate the preferred use of cannabis for hard drug users. Unfortunately if we did this we would be subject to arrest for incitement.

Q: Some doctors, nurses and drug workers frequently tell us that they see people, especially young ones, who suffer from mental problems due to cannabis. Surely legalisation would increase the numbers?
A: These problems do not seem to occur in the East where cannabis has been used for centuries. Nobody would deny that a certain percentage of society suffers mental problems, understandable maybe under the pressures that western society often puts people under, and specifically applied to cannabis users under a legal system which threatens them with arrest. It is more likely that these cases are mentally nor ill people who use cannabis, rather than the case of cannabis causing the illness. We must remember of course that all of these cases apply to banned cannabis - how sure are we that it is pure cannabis that has been used, and can we be sure that no dangerous illicit drugs have been used
But the essential question is: should the law punish people who suffer mental illnesses if they consume cannabis? Should it punish those who use cannabis at all. Surely ill people need help, not fines and prison.
It also appears true that cannabis may help bring some of these problems to the surface where they can be recognised and dealt with.

Q: When was cannabis made illegal?
A: In the UK in 1928. As a result of the mis-classification of cannabis as a narcotic.

Q: How many cannabis users in the world?
A:: An estimated 600 million - probably far too low.

Q: Is cannabis fat-soluble? Does it stay in your system?
A: Yes, for from 14 to 40 days. But this is long after any effect has worn off and it causes no harm.

Q: What are the other uses of cannabis?
A: Besides social use and medicinal use, as a fibre for paper, rope and cloth, as a building material and board for furniture, packing material, animal bedding, foodstuff, prevents land erosion, to make plastic, paints, varnish, and sealant, as a fuel, as a lubricant etc. See here.

Q: What are the penalties for cannabis?
A: For possession, ion the UK, anything from a caution to five years with or without a fine up to ÂŁ2500. For cultivation, supply, possession with intent, importation and conspiracy (including being concerned or knowingly involved with any of these offences), up to 15 years in prison with an unlimited fine and confiscation of assets. In Holland the sentences for even huge amounts are relatively light. In some countries even the death penalty is a possibility.
In India the law is so crazy that there is a maximum sentence of 5 years for over 5 grams of ganja (herb) but a MINIMUM sentence of 10 years for over 5 grams of charas (resin).

Q:: What are the dangers of smoking cannabis?
A: Mixing it with tobacco.
Getting arrested.
Health hazards from impurities.
Being offered drugs.
Becoming a social outcast = persecution.
Conviction = criminal record, banned from USA, Australia etc.
All prohibition created problems.

Q: Is cannabis at all dangerous?
A: Of course, everything has some danger. You can drown in water, air starts fires, and you can choke on a sweet. Cannabis is about as dangerous as the same sized piece of wood. You could hit somebody with a large lump. However, cannabis was described, by DEA Administrator Judge Francis Young, as one of the safest of substances.

Q: Is decriminalisation a step in the right direction? A: No. Decriminalisation is simple turning a blind eye to small time users or growers. It simply avoids the real issues of control. Cannabis quality could not be tested. We want the weed to be free. We want it sold by reputable dealers with their profits taxed. We do not want limits on the amount possessed or amount of plants cultivated.

Q: What about synthetic cannabis?
A: Research is continuing to produce medicinal cannabis substances that do not give a high when consumed. Cannabis is a holistic plant - the whole plant is necessary. Synthetic 'drugs' such as Nabilone are considered virtually useless compared with natural cannabis and can have unpleasant side effects such as depression. Cannabis usually alleviates depression.

Q: In third world countries the poor and unemployed are seen sitting smoking cannabis, they never seem to get anything together and remain poor. Isn't this an effect of cannabis? That is, does the use of cannabis a-motivate?
A: No. The reverse is true. Because they are poor and unemployed they have time to sit and smoke. Cannabis grows wild in many of these countries. They smoke it because it helps them stay happy in their positions. In the same countries many working people smoke cannabis. You do not see them on the streets because they work and smoke at home. The same is true in Britain.


It would take a million wise men to answer all the questions one fool can ask.
------------------------------------------

CANNABIS AND HARD DRUG MYTHS
Go back to the Index

The argument that the use of cannabis leads to the use of hard drugs, known as the Gateway Theory is seldom used by the British Government, any more. Others, however, continually state this as if it were fact, whilst still others, even some who advocate the full legalisation of cannabis, continue to insist that it is the social setting in which cannabis is taken that leads to hard drug use. Such an argument is often based on the idea that for drinkers of alcohol in an environment where tobacco is smoked may start or restart the use of tobacco. Such arguments may often have prohibitionist undertones. The truth is that it is generally people who lead themselves or other people to try something new. There is nothing within cannabis itself that automatically leads one to try a hard drug, although people with a propensity to experiment with drugs may first try cannabis and the availability of different substances in the same place will help make that easier for them to achieve.
---------------------------------------

It's time for a change my friends.
--
 
Crazier said:
gymtime - Actually, I was awaiting your father figure advice. ;)
Thanks for the words my friend... I appreciate it......

--

Wish I had something more for ya man. I certainly don't envy your position right now. But you're handling it like a man. Dballer's right, all things considered, it was a funny as hell story. My attention span doesn't normally allow for stories that long, but I read every word, smiling and shaking my head through much of it :D .

The offer's still good bro, if I can do anything, let me know.
 
gymtime said:


The offer's still good bro, if I can do anything, let me know.

You hiring potheads where you work?? :D :D

On the real though gymtime, although we've never met, you extend your hand and offer any help you can provide... shows your true merit and character. I never suspected anything less from you.

Well, I'm about to start a cylce, and my legs are almost smaller than fro's... Maybe you could pay me to be my personal trainer?? ;)

Thanks for the offer though my friend, it's appreciated.

And, I'll let you know how tomorrow goes... at the very least I need to convince him not to relay this story to my dad. Somehow, I don't think he'd find it as funny as most of us do!!!
--
 
Crazier,


You are a punk ass bitch, but the plant in the elevator was funny as shit.



:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 
Golfer18 said:
Crazier,

You are a punk ass bitch, but the plant in the elevator was funny as shit.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Well hey... at least you can see past our differences for a second. ;) Come to think of it, if I would have gone golfing with those deuche bags... I wouldn't have gotten drunk by the pool all day, I'd have 3 less tickets, and a job. Maybe golf isn't so bad. :D

gymtime - True bro. Maybe they are more like his sisters. :FRlol: :FRlol:
--
 
BUMP cause I just told some of my fucked up friends about this and they thought it sounded familar.

Crazier.. I am copy pasting this and sending it out for my Monday e-mail!!! This is the best story I have heard in a long time.
 
dballer said:
BUMP cause I just told some of my fucked up friends about this and they thought it sounded familar.

Crazier.. I am copy pasting this and sending it out for my Monday e-mail!!! This is the best story I have heard in a long time.

At least some people can relate!!!

Well hey, when I'm in my bosses office getting my asshole torn apart, handing over my cell phone, and cleaning out my desk... I can at least know that someone, somewhere in the world will be having a good laugh on what would otherwise be just another shitty Monday morning in the corportate world. :garza: :garza:

Also dballer... Hey bro... please only send e-mails to [email protected] from here on out brutha!!!

Canadian Oak - I appreciate the words, thanks my friend.
--
 
Crazier said:


Well hey... at least you can see past our differences for a second. ;) Come to think of it, if I would have gone golfing with those deuche bags... I wouldn't have gotten drunk by the pool all day, I'd have 3 less tickets, and a job. Maybe golf isn't so bad. :D

gymtime - True bro. Maybe they are more like his sisters. :FRlol: :FRlol:
--

Well Crazier, When i play golf, i play with cocksuckers. You now the smartasses that think theyre the shit. I try to keep the integrity of the game, but fuck i just can deal with pussies for four hours.
 
Crazier said:
I don't refute any of that Rock. I checked into it, since it was a hotel I didn't know if I still had the same rights as I do in my house or an apartment. I didn't mean to indicate that I felt a right of mine had necessarily been violated in this scenario...

No sweat, bro. I didn't intend to imply anything, either. I just thought it was worth mentioning. You're probably going to be able to bargain out with few problems (which doesn't mean it will be without discomfort). But you're 25. I'd be more concerned if you were 35. You fucked up, you got caught. It's not the end of your world by any stretch of the imagination.
 
So Crazier, what happened with the boss? You're keeping us in suspense.

Maybe he'll be cool and let you off with a severe warning and how you broke his trust....etc., etc.
 
Alright guys... quick update here.

I went into work this morning with a resignation letter. A simple, as of today I resign. On top of that one, I left a note to my boss explaining that my resignation would be best for his company, and our friendship. That I didn't want to put him into a position that would make him have to fire me. I ask him to call me, and I leave.

I get home... and the phone rings.

It's my boss... and get this. He has no fucking clue whatsoever what had happened!!! He hadn't even spoke with them. Fuck!

So, he's like 'this is a mighty big surprise. What's the deal.'

So, I break down the story to him... in the nicest ways possible of course. I tell him the truth, but in a much better way than those guys would have 'He trashed the fucking place... he had drugs... blah, blah.'

So... he remains calm (as I've said we're pretty good freinds) he then tells me he is going to make a few calls and see what he can work out, and will call me back and let me know what he thinks and if my resignation is necessary.

When he is done speaking with them, I'm sure he will think that it is.
--
 
Crazier said:

smokinghawk - Eat shit and die. Seriously man. Do you not see that I have no problem stepping up to the plate and receiving my punishment? And also, I don't know about you, but I live in this place called America that gives even 'criminals like myself' rights. One of those rights is the freedom of illegal search and seizure.
A police officer couldn't have even done with the little boy security guard did. I fail to see how you could think that it is right. Sure, my possesion of dope wasn't legal... but he never should have found it in the first place. How many people would go to jail today if cops just came into their house and started searching through their shit without probable cause or a warrant??? I'd say about 80% of Elite. If I was out of the balcony smoking dope and a cop caught me... fine. I broke the law, and I realize I run a risk everyday that I smoke pot. To me, the risk is worth the reward. Don't talk me down son, especially since you are a former pothead. You fucking hypocrit.
--

No, a hypocrite is someone who is STILL doing something contrary to what they preach. I am--as you said--a FORMER pothead. I grew up. I stopped saying that all my problems are caused by everyone else's judgmentalism and condescention, etc. We all make mistakes, but some of us blame everyone else (it's the cop's fault I got caught; it's judgemental Smokinghawk's fault; I don't want sympathy but fuck you if you don't give me any; it's a victimless crime except that I'm in all KINDS of trouble...)

You say you don't want sympathy, but what DO you want here? I mean, you posted this to the internet for comments, and you sure seem to be really happy with all the "oh, poor you! That was so unfair" responses, but you're cussing mad that someone dares to point out--hey, man, YOU did this. Funny, though, that's what you started saying about yourself, yet you're really mad that I'm repeating it.

Look, I did my work. I went through a tough rehab where I blamed everyone else. Like this situation: you got drunk, embarassed your company, cost money for a room you got kicked out of, ruined property, got caught with drugs (but rant about your rights to privacy after all this public behavior), etc. (And BTW, this is not illegal search and seizure. They were searching their own room, not your house. They have every right to enter and open drawers).

Let me share something that'll REALLY make you mad. I had to dig this up out of my file cabinets. When I was getting counseling for pot use, I was given on sheet of questions that would apply here. Here are the questions, unchanged, directly off the paper:

Do I have a Drinking or Drug Use Problem that I am Hiding?

1. Has your drinking or drug use ever cost you a job?
2. Has your drinking or drug use ever caused you to embarass yourself or others in a situation where you were being counted on?
3. Have you ever behaved in ways you've forgotton, or had to ask friends about afterwards?
4. Have you ever damaged property, either yours or someone else's, while intoxicated?
5. Have you ever been arrested or had other legal consequences?
6. Have you ever pretended that the results of your own behavior are someone (or everyone) else's fault instead?
7. Have you ever reacted with anger over someone else's criticisms of your drug use or intoxicated behavior?
8. Have you ever passed off stories about your recklessness as "funny" or "humorous?"
9. Have you ever minimized your own drug behavior ("What I did may have been wrong, but it's nothing compared to what THEY all do!")?
10. Have you ever wondered whether you have a drinking or drug use problem?

Man, those questions pissed me off, because they all hit bulls-eye's.

For the record, I no longer use drugs of intoxication. I have no problem with anyone else's adult choices, unless those choices cause consequences that they blame on others or me. I'm perfectly open-minded about private behaviors, whether we're talking about sexual matters, anabolic use, etc. Hell, go ahead and even smoke pot if you want--you'll notice I haven't said one negative word about that decision. What I judge--at the risk of karma or whatever--is the idea that the *results* of that decision are everyone else's fault, and you're just a victim.
 
Last edited:
the vietnamese kid who sits next to me at work just read this story.. his reply was...

"OH My Got(Got=God).. What the hell is he doring man.. hory fuckin shit!" he then began to laugh uncontrolably.
 
Crazier,

Dang dude sorry to hear about all this. That sux man. I think the security guards should have been a bit more lenient especially after you said you would clean the mess up and you were just kidding around. I personally just think you were doing a prank that wouldn't have hurt anybody(HOTEL) included.

I think them searching your room sucked seems like that isn't legal to me. I can't believe the cop let you go. Everytime but in my wild days cops always took me in especially once I was cuffed. Maybe the cop let you go because he knew your rights had been violated.

All this stuff sux dude. Talk about a BAD day. I hope you find a job quickly so you can still come to Travis on Memorial day I still would like to meet you even though you are such a bad criminal for putting a tree in a elavator :rolleyes: (that rolleyes are for the judgmental weirdos that have commented so negatively to crazier about this incident( don't worry about it crazier they are dweebs and they were probably nerds in school and still are)) .

Anyway dude sorry again.
 
LMFAO @ dballer!!! Hory shit!!! :D :D

Smoking - 10 for 10 on your survey. Have I ever denied the fact that I smoke pot daily? Does this mean I'm a pothead? Most likely so. But, I've never denied it and said that I'm not. I do need to put down the bottle for a while. That's what causes me to get into trouble. See Smoke... I can recognize these things... I'm not in denial. I have a problem of getting of hand when I drink. If you haven't seen me post my stories on here... then maybe you are in the dark.

I posted this shit on this board because I'm in deep shit, and have some friends on here that I wanted to share this with, and maybe a even get a little 'everything will be okay' from a few people.

What can I say? I'm human.

What's your damn point?
--
 
There is a guy from India here who said.. "It is like a movie story"
and one guy said "Man. Your buddy is fucked. Too bad he wan't with the QUEENS GUARDS.
HMMMM!! HMMMMMMM!!!!"
 
Zirakzigil said:


The smoke bowls part, sure.

The tree in the elevator, hell no - there was a victim there, the hotel, and it is good you were caught and are going to get your just desserts.

Man, please. a "victim"? You make it sound like he raped someone. Putting a tree in an elevator is hardly vandalism. The tree spilled on accident- there was no intent there, and he even would have cleaned it up if given the chance.


Crazier- that truly sucks a big one, man. It will blow over eventually, but I shudder to think of the shit you're dealing with now. On the bright side, I know that you did hate that job, so maybe your future will be brighter in the long run.
 
Curling - I had missed your post brother. Come Hell or highwater... I'm making it to Lake Travis on Memorial Day weekend. You just better make sure I don't see any trees. ;)
I was amazed the cop let me go as well. He gave me an option.
Level with him, or don't and spend the night in jail. I have tried to contact him a few times to find out why I was hit with a criminal damage ticket, and also for calling a taxi cab for me, and allowing me to show for work in the morning.

Thanks for the words my friend.

Casavant - As you said man... I did hate my job. Maybe this had to happen so I could get a more fulfilling job. Time will tell. Thanks Big Guy.
--
 
It's been an hour... and my ears are bleeding!!!

VP speaking here:

'Yeah, and then he called me a fuckin' pussy!!! Then, he got so drunk, we had to drive him home early... more a damage control issue there than anything else. Instead of just passing out like a normal drunk... he kicks the shit out of a tree, unleashes hell on security, get's kicked out of a hotel, they find drugs in his room, and he get's arrested, show's up in the morning, and I have to send him home in the middle of the day.'

Now my boss should say:

'He was that drunk, and also arrested... but still made into work in the morning, ON TIME?!?! Damn... I knew he was a hard worker, thanks for the call Bill. I'll give him a bit of a bonus for all
his hard work he did.'

:D :D :garza: :garza: :silly: :silly: :D :D
--
 
Crazier said:
Curling - I had missed your post brother. -

Sorry so late for showing up. I just saw it(your post) a few minutes ago. I mean dude I am going to tell you another radical story about what happened to me when I meet you face to face.(don't really want to put it on the net).

Things will work out just keep your chin up.

But I can make a suggestion about getting your next job. First, as you know it is easier to get a job when you have one. So I think you should try to keep your present one until you find the one you want. Here are some suggestions for keeping your present job.

Send a letter to the Hotel Manager apologizing for the tree deal and explain to him that you were not trying to damage anything. Then carbon copy this letter to your boss and the powers and be. Then write another letter apologizing to your boss and the hire bosses telling them that this was a mistake that you were very sorry for. Then ask them if they could please forgive your actions and let you come back to work that it WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN(use the caps and everything). Anyway you get the idea. Listen it suxs brownnosing but sometimes it is easier to brownnose that to face all the crap that happens if you don't if you know what I mean.
 
We all fuck up, and we get to laugh at each others fuckups... it is like a round-robin where everyone takes a turn. The only thing that makes us feel better when we do fuck-up is hearing about other's fuckups.

if you want my story, ask me sometime about waking up in a taco bell parking lot and getting charged with 2 c felonies.

it is a hell of a story.

(freed on 15,000 bond. 2 felonies later dropped to 3 misdemeanors. one of the misd was dropped in open court at a pretrial (no evidence). another was dropped the day of the trial (no evidence). i am 8 hours of counseling away from the final misd being dropped (didn't want to risk a trial on it).)
 
the letter will help in criminal court, also. The prosecutor will be much less likely to purse the damage charges if the hotel does not want to.

In the eyes of the law the victim is the hotel, victims have a large say in how cases are pursued (with the exception of domestic violence, because hardly ever does anyone want one of those cases prosecuted)
 
and another thing.

I think the hotel security staff doesn't understand exactly how horrible jail is. If they did they would have never reported the mj.

If it was me, i would have kicked you out and flushed your dope. No way would I have called the cops on you.
 
i emailed this post out to my friends as well. that part about the tree had me laughing my ass off. i would laugh balls if an elevator door opened up and there was a tree in the middle of it. lol!!!
 
here is a reply from my friend David..

We have all had some fucked upweekends, but that sounds like the antithesis of problematic weekends. Is this a sign of the pitfalls of alcohol? Or just alcohol and sun?
Don't fuck with the trees, people have been screaming that for years, and beware of low income security guards with too much time?
i feel for your friend.
David
 
UPDATE!!!

4:15 and still no call back from the boss.

I think he has accepted my letter of resignation.

Ah well... doing this --> :user: all day blew anyway.

Now I can chill for a while and just :havoc:.

Fuck em.
--
 
dballer said:
Now get on welfare!!!!

have you watched the Wrong Way video yet??

Dude... seriously... that avatar scares the shit out of me everytime!!! Damn!!! I can't believe you saw that fucker on the subway... I'da shit myself fo' sho!!! :D :D

I have not seen it before... could I download it from morpheus, ya think???
--
 
Hmmmm. No response from the man yet huh? He's probably thinking what the hell to do with you at this point since he knows your father and you're close with the guy.

I wouldn't be suprised if he didn't accept your resignation letter, but if you don't like the job, maybe you should move on and do something else.
 
UPDATE!!!

I still haven't heard from my boss. I tried is cell a half hour ago... voicemail.

I went out and had a couple of brewskies with one of the inside salesman I worked with. He told me that my computer had been removed from my desk, and he was told that I fucked up huge and pretty much 'it's over.'

I've lost my job.

It's a very weird time for that though... on Thursday, my C drive became full... and on accident, I deleted every cookie, every sent and in message on my computer. Everything was lost. I tried to have the computer nerd get the shit back, but he couldn't.

Let me just all tell you, that is some incredible shit. 1 1/2 of areas I've searched, messages I've sent.... all accidentaly disappering the last day of my employment with the company.

I have passed an on-line application test for model scouting. This would much better fit my interests and abilities. I can spot a fine chic from a mile away. I'm also secure enough in my own manhood to realize what man is better looking than another. The HR manager mailed me back this morning and let me know that I have an interview this Thursday at 10:00.

I won't necessarily get this job, but just like my computer shit disappering,

EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON MY BROTHER AND SISTERS!

And not only that.... BUT I DON'T HAVE TO WAKE UP AT 6 FUCKING 30 TOMORROW MORNING!!!
:)
--
 
And... in 10 minutes from now I leave to go pick up the 18 year old bitch that I fucked doggy style while she was handcuffed with her hands behind her back last Saturday night. The weekend before she swallowed a huge load.

I'll let you know what my 25 year old wicked ass does to her tonight!!!

I'm also poppin' a viagra for 4 hours of guaranteed wickedness!!!

See you all tomorrow!
---
 
here is what this chick Andrea said about this...



Funny as hell. I have been job searching for the last three months. Now I
know what NOT to do when I finally land a job.

I like when he made one word out of three - "holyfuckingshit." Ha ha. And
I like when he called the cop "Tommy Badass himself."
 
Crazier said:
And... in 10 minutes from now I leave to go pick up the 18 year old bitch that I fucked doggy style while she was handcuffed with her hands behind her back last Saturday night. The weekend before she swallowed a huge load.

I'll let you know what my 25 year old wicked ass does to her tonight!!!

I'm also poppin' a viagra for 4 hours of guaranteed wickedness!!!

See you all tomorrow!
---

Damn man, try not to take this all so hard. There will be other jobs bro. I can't stand to see you all broken up like this.

:D
 
gymtime said:


Damn man, try not to take this all so hard. There will be other jobs bro. I can't stand to see you all broken up like this.

:D

I just don't know what I'm gonna do!!!

:horny: :horny: :horny: :horny: :horny: :velvett: :velvett:
:sperm: :sperm:


Alright... I'm out!!!

Good night gentlemen!!!
--
 
Crazier, hang in there bro, atleast you have some good stories to tell your buddies in the future! I don't smoke weed, but i am not sure why people decided that it was the cause of your problems. The cause was some fag security guard making $7.00 an hour who had a god complex. If i saw some drunk buy puting a tree in and elevator i would laugh. People that take their jobs seriously need to be shot. Jobs are a means to get what you want, not something to devote yourself to. Fuck it...
 
I don't know if we went to a bar, a restaurant, or bowling...

LMAO

That was definately an entertaining story, you seem to be ok with everything. There is nothing you can do now so fuck dwelling on it. I don't smoke pot but I'm not going to sit here and lecture you like many are doing. Many people lecturing have used much more serious drugs such as Anabolics. So basically most are hypocrits.
 
Next time i'm drunk i'm marching over to the nearest hotel and putting a tree in the elevator, that'll be the funniest shit ever!! Do i have your permission to use your idea crazier? :P


Hope you find a new job man, i'm unemployed myself and desperately need cash for a holiday i'm going on soon, ahh well.


Everything'll turn out fine in the end. You seem to be handling it quite well too.
 
Crazier,

Dude I am very about your job. I would still send the letter of apology to the Hotel asap so it will you help you with your legal problems. You could still try to send a letter to your boss and your bosses boss. They could still change their minds.
 
SIC... I'd be honored bro!!! ;) Let me recommend 5 hours of sun, and about 8 mixed drinks, 2 doubles, and a kamikaze shot for the most effective and rewarding tree moving experience possible. It can be quite fun.

When my buddy and I were up in Vegas for his wedding last month... we did the same shit at Excalibur. We didn't get caught, and basicly practically pissed our pants from laughter. I don't know why... but it looks funny as hell sitting in the elevator. :D :D

curling - Man... my boss didn't call today either. While I know I'm canned, it'd be nice if he would have called. He must be seriously pissed off. Otherwise, he would have buzzed me to let me know. The thing is... if he tells my dad why I don't work there anymore... my dad and I are going to have problems... not to mention my boss and I. See... I'd knock his dick in the dirt if he told him. No question about it.

It's weird though... I've had my buddy call both today and yesterday to my work and ask for me... and our secretary says 'He's not available right now.' My friend asks for my voicemail... and she says 'Crazier no longer has voicemail.' :confused: I don't get that at all. Why aren't they telling people that I no longer work there??? They've already moved my computer and shit... I'm lost on that one. It's nice though... I don't really want 'my baby's mama' ;) finding out about this one too soon.

Aight?!?!?

Thanks guys.
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You know....speaking of trees in elevators. I was visiting some friends of mine who were at their fraternity formal in this nice hotel downtown here. Someone did that exact same thing. :) I was laughing my tail off...it WAS funny. Too bad that you had to have that kind of outcome, though.

Have you been job searching just in case you lost it? Or...did they just tell you to not come into work until you heard from them?
 
Night Fly said:
You know....speaking of trees in elevators. I was visiting some friends of mine who were at their fraternity formal in this nice hotel downtown here. Someone did that exact same thing. :) I was laughing my tail off...it WAS funny. Too bad that you had to have that kind of outcome, though.

Have you been job searching just in case you lost it? Or...did they just tell you to not come into work until you heard from them?

LMAO!!! I'm glad to hear that peple that find the tree's in the elevator think it's funny too. I haven't ever found one in there... that wasn't mine anyway. :FRlol: :FRlol:

I turned my letter of resignation in on Monday morning and left a note for my boss to call me. I explained what happened, and he said he would see what he could do about it, and get back to me.
2 days later, no call back and my computer has been moved. The job is gone. Even if they would take me back, I couldn't go. There are too many old fuckers at that place that would hold this against me always.

I'm job hunting!!! I have a job interview Thursday morning. So... we'll see how them apples go. I'm not going to start another job that I don't like... it's taken to long to be freed from this other shithole. I'll take less pay over a job I don't have interest or a passion for.

Hey... glad to hear about you and B Fold... the two of you both seem so nice... the best of luck to both of you!
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Crazier said:


I'm job hunting!!! I have a job interview Thursday morning. So... we'll see how them apples go. I'm not going to start another job that I don't like... it's taken to long to be freed from this other shithole. I'll take less pay over a job I don't have interest or a passion for.

Hey... glad to hear about you and B Fold... the two of you both seem so nice... the best of luck to both of you!
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Well, good luck on finding the right job. I see where you are coming from on the job thing, though. Seriously...I never ever want to work somewhere that I don't really enjoy it...but sometimes you have to. Look at it like this...you put in your time...and now you can move on to better things.

Thank you!!! I feel like the luckiest woman in the world! :)
 
Ok I see your point about that job being crappy. But make sure you send the apology letter to the hotel manager ASAP. That will really help you with your case. Also have you found a good lawyer(boy that is a oxymoron)yet? Shop around and get good references and make sure you are getting a good price. Don't just call the first one yellow piss pages. You should be able to get all those charges deferred to adjudification which will keep them off your record.
 
funny story!!! kinda reminds me of the time i was about your age and tried to go skinny dipping in the fountain in the lobby of a hotel where i was staying with my husband! the security guard i had was a little more understanding ;)

like everyone said, everything happens for a reason, just try to slow up on the boozing if you have to go out with someone from work, or just don't do it at all with anyone from work. people can be so judgemental.
 
UPDATE!!!

Alright... still hadn't heard from my boss so I called his mobil this morning and left him a voicemail asking him to call me because I wanted to find out if I could use him for a reference, and also to find out if he had told my dad what happened.

He just called me back and told me that it would be fine if I use him for a reference. He asked me what reason I was going to use for leaving the company so our stories would match... but, I haven't thought of quite what I'm going to say, so he told me to leave a voicemail for him so he knows. Very cool shit there.

Then, he tells me what I tell my dad is up to me. He isn't going to say anything about it to him. That is such a ball breaking save. The lecture, the disappointment, the list goes on and on... and my dad is like an elephant... never forgets a damn thing.
:elephant:

He then went on to say that his talk with Bill (The V.P.) did not go well. I guess people at the show saw what was going on, and thought I was with him company. Much like the hotel, he made the tree issue seem like I tried to burn the damn place down, and beating people that tried to leave the blazed building down with a tree. :rolleyes:

Bill's threatening to withdraw the account from my boss. Give me a break. It's a $400,000 a year line for our company... and we do well... you're just gonna pitch that because a 25 year old got a little drunk, acted like an ass, and had two bowls of pot on him?

Sounds like that guy needs to get the shit kicked out of him. He lives in Illinois... where my dawgs in Illinois at??? ;)

Anyway, I told him that I would write a letter to them if he'd like, that I'd do anything I could to salvage the line for him. He told me he would let me know if there was anything I could do.

All in all, we had a good convo. I think I'll send him a bottle of wine as a going away/sorry I screwed you over kind of gift.

And that's the way it is.

I'm writing my resume now... IT'S A BITCH!!!
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I would be in Tuscon looking to get a job working security at a certain hotel. Just think of who you could get back at!!!!
 
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