Now THIS is what I call CUT

[Nelson Montana]

Zabo Kosewski. 1965. All 170 pounds of him.

His diet? Just eating clean.

His cycle? 10 mgs of d-bol a day.

He trained 3 hours a day.

Something to think about when you feel you need to up the dosages to look more impressive.

 

[wcjcMr.O]

Zabo Kosewski. 1965. All 170 pounds of him.

His diet? Just eating clean.

His cycle? 10 mgs of d-bol a day.

He trained 3 hours a day.

Something to thing about when you feel you need to up the dosages to look more impressive.

Ya the guy looks great. Personally I think this look is more appealing than many of the top pro's today.

But 3 hours a day??!?!?! Obviously he had good results. But I dont think ANYONE needs to be in the gym for that long. That's just ignorance. But I guess its what everyone was doing back than.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Ya the guy looks great. Personally I think this look is more appealing than many of the top pro's today.

But 3 hours a day??!?!?! Obviously he had good results. But I dont think ANYONE needs to be in the gym for that long. That's just ignorance. But I guess its what everyone was doing back than.

Not ignorance -- love.

 

[shirlene29]

Id live in the gym three hrs a day if my family peeps would let me

 

[stevesmi]

I will have 2 hour workouts. on days where the place is humming with chicks and I'm feeling good. I feel guilty though going longer, I know my body needs to be fed ASAP. i don't go more than 2 hours without food thats the problem... usually i like to stay around 70 minutes on the dot then go straight home and eat a post workout meal.

the fact that Zabo lived to 84 should tell you how conservative he was about AAS and how he wasn't all about being 280 pounds like the guys today.

 

[the small soldier]

Not ignorance -- love.

such a simple statement but SO profound! I train as powerlifter, but I'll do bodybuilding exercises just to keep some kind of balance. I've spend 2+ hours in the gym. Short intesne sessions of dynamic work bench, small break some cardio, 1 scoop of protien, small break hit some heavy back and glute work, small break 10 mintues cardio and go home. It has not hurt my progress I've been getting progressively stronger all year. DIET AND REST is key to being able to train long and hard.

 

[the small soldier]

Nelson out of curiosity, how can you be sure he only took 10mg of Dbol a day. I mean he isn't very big, but I've seen smaller guys take more gear.

 

[strentrainin]

I would stay in there 3 hours if I could. I've been known to stay 2+(like steve said, when its humming with chicks and people i get the ear plugs turned up and just go as hard as i can then I'm like damn i've done 6 different exercises on 2 muscle groups, i work out better with people around me esp. women, motivation no doubt) That guy is cut. being in the 175lb range I would love to stay at this weight and get cut like that, don't think I have the genetics to look like that but I've got my sights set on a realistic goal right now and that getting from 12% to 9% this year. Being 24 years old I think its easily accomplishable and i'm naturally a lean guy. That is some motivation, he has a killer physique.

 

[stevesmi]

Nelson out of curiosity, how can you be sure he only took 10mg of Dbol a day. I mean he isn't very big, but I've seen smaller guys take more gear.

the thing is he lived to 84. so i doubt he ran big dosages or long periods.

just an educated guess. many bodybuilders croak much younger from the extra strain on their organs. when I'm on tren I can feel my heart beating harder for example, plus my career is pretty damn stressful as are most these days. its pretty stressful to run a business i know the consequences are gonna catch up to me eventually and no way i will live to 84

 

[doublebicep]

A lot of us where using 10mg of dbol max a day. The best I ever looked was at 23yo running 10mg Ciba dbol per day. I never heard of anyone taking anything near the 50mg and up some take today. Just unheared of.

I can absolutely believe he accomplished that build with diet, intense work outs and 10mg per day. I do know a lot of us overtrained back then. We would spend 2-3 hours in the gym everyday.









-db-

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson out of curiosity, how can you be sure he only took 10mg of Dbol a day. I mean he isn't very big, but I've seen smaller guys take more gear.

I've spoken with a lot of the old timers and they're pretty upfront about what they did. Zabo trained naturally until he was in his 40's so he had a SOLID foundation. Most guys from that time used a little juice just as a "topper" to already hard earned muscle. That's why they had a great quality to their muscle. (And Jim Caruso's photographer didn't hurt either). None of those guys got gyno. That shit didn't start happening to the late 70's.

As mentioned, in my avatar, I took 10 mgs of dbol a day and 200 mgs of Primo a week. I was ECSTATIC at the gains I got -- because I've been training naturally my whole life, seeing faster progress was making.

 

[Judo Tom]

Thanks Nelson. By any chance do you have an idea what his routine was like?

Hard to argue with the results!

 

[the small soldier]

Makes sense Nelson it really does. I was young at 22 but my first cycle was dbol and test at 250 I gained over 30 pounds...

@steve my grand mother smoked and ran a restaraunt (talk about stress!) she lived to 86. Lots of factor to consider when talking about longevity.

 

[AAP]

Remember Serge Nubret? It was said that he trained 4-5 hours a day in the gym and sometimes his only meal for the entire day was one big sirloin steak. No carbs or anything else.

And he looked amazing. Best chest ever.

 

[tryionlannister]

This is impressive! Thanks for posting

 

[Nelson Montana]

Thanks Nelson. By any chance do you have an idea what his routine was like?

Hard to argue with the results!

Nothing out of the ordinary other than he started every workout with 500 roman chair sit ups and 500 leg raises.

 

[RickRock13]

That is damn impressive....especially considering the timeframe. Goes to show that dedication, training, and diet get the best results and make the biggest impact

 

[insanityapproved]

Way to go Nelson!!

That's what I always keep telling people - if you've been training natty for long enough you'll make enormous progress with using tiny amounts of AAS. Esp first few cycles. Because everything else needed to progress (diet, training, lifestyle) is already on spot (else you wouldn't make progress as natty) -- People keep thinking that AAS is the way around the basics. So wrong.

And BTW, I train for 3hrs every day, 365 days per year .. for the past ummm .. 10 years I think

 

[deejleos]

Has the knowledge of diet changed since the 60s as far as the ratio of protein to carbs to fats. Was it still all about eggs, fish, lean beef?? I always try finding diets of old school lifters but find little info on that.

 

[Judo Tom]

Nothing out of the ordinary other than he started every workout with 500 roman chair sit ups and 500 leg raises.

Thanks. Trying to research about these 'old timers'

Looks like they spent a lot of time on abs and then maybe other smaller muscles?

 

[insanityapproved]

From what I know most of them did zero fat with tons of protein. I remember a senior bodybuilder telling me about how they would buy nonfat powdered milk in bulk and drink a gallon of that shit every day lol

 

[Nelson Montana]

From what I know most of them did zero fat with tons of protein. I remember a senior bodybuilder telling me about how they would buy nonfat powdered milk in bulk and drink a gallon of that shit every day lol

Yep, Carnation instant milk poured into skim milk. Tasted like ground chalk in water! lol. But it was a better protein source than most of the supplements back then. Lots of carbs though.

 

[stevesmi]

And BTW, I train for 3hrs every day, 365 days per year .. for the past ummm .. 10 years I think

saw a video yesterday and a bodybuilder named Rich Piana said "i don't believe in overtraining, i believe in under eating and under sleeping" this is so true and you are proving it .. i've always believed this..

Ric Drasin said that part of the reason for people doing the M, W, F thing is that back in the 70's those were the days men could workout at the gym. T TH and S were reserved for women. the other days men would do cardio or swim etc. thats pretty interesting. i guess back then there was a lot of separation of women and men.. and some Golds Gym actually have separate sections for females to workout where men are not allowed in. the older vids of arnold or whatever lifting you don't see females anywhere in the gym so i guess this was the norm back then to workout separate. just a fun fact i wanted to throw out there and adds validity to the silliness of seeing a skinny dude at the gym benching 100 pounds with his gf .. he obviously is lifting small to stay small

 

[deejleos]

Yep, Carnation instant milk poured into skim milk. Tasted like ground chalk in water! lol. But it was a better protein source than most of the supplements back then. Lots of carbs though.

How about cardio with the old timers, dont see many pics or videos of these guys on treadmills or out jogging?

 

[stevesmi]

Has the knowledge of diet changed since the 60s as far as the ratio of protein to carbs to fats. Was it still all about eggs, fish, lean beef?? I always try finding diets of old school lifters but find little info on that.

eggs and milk. of course today the quality of milk isn't like the old days. its all pasteurized shit shipped from some corporate farm with a cow that has been injected with a shitload of hormones.

i've noticed a lot of those guys are tricky about the info they give. i was watching some vids last night on you tube with interviews from the older bodybuilders and they are shady about the info they give. but its pretty much all about lots of carbs and protein when you bulk.. and then when you comp just leave the carbs around your workouts.

 

[Nelson Montana]

How about cardio with the old timers, dont see many pics or videos of these guys on treadmills or out jogging?

No cardio. You don;t think 3 hours of training is enough exercise for the cardio vascular system?

 

[burnthiscorpse]

No cardio. You don;t think 3 hours of training is enough exercise for the cardio vascular system?

One of my favorite quotes was from your interview with Don Holworth where you asked him about cardio back in the day and he just laughed and said Pffft...cardio...ha! No. Then he went on to say something like i barely take any rest between sets sometimes no rest....if that isnt cardio I dunno what is. (or something to that effect anyways.


The only thing negative I can say about the pic in the first post.....damn, I hate that old school pose they used to do.
Other than that wow!

 

[Iron Warrior707]

saw a video yesterday and a bodybuilder named Rich Piana said "i don't believe in overtraining, i believe in under eating and under sleeping" this is so true and you are proving it .. i've always believed this..

This is only true if you are taking steroids, anything above 700mg testosterone will not make you overtrain even training 3 hours a day 6 days a week, However you can overtrain even on steroids if you train for very low reps (1-3) because of taxing the CNS, the reason people say you can overtrain after 1 hour is because testosterone drops rapidly, since you have atifical testosterone you can keep going for another 2 hours..
I believe if you are natural you can overtrain even if you eat 10000 calories a day of good food..

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ not sure where you come up with the things you say but I will tell you this. I worked out 2 years straight 6X per week for 1:30 when i was a competitive powerlifter and trust me we would push heavy. and I never had any issues with the CNS. that is pretty much nonsense and I wouldn't worry about that. the best symptom of overtraining would be inflammation developing in your joints and developing nagging injuries. that is when you should back off. our conditioning was so top notch that i can safely say i never had a single injury in those 2 years. what did get me injured though was football because you are pounding each other for 90 minutes a day. but lifting properly you shouldn't have issues. weightlifting is the safest sport out there.

 

[RickRock13]

I think over training only happens when you exceed the limits of your own body. Anyone who has worked out long enough should know their limits. As long as you don't go too far, there is nothing to worry about IMO

 

[Iron Warrior707]

^^^ not sure where you come up with the things you say but I will tell you this. I worked out 2 years straight 6X per week for 1:30 when i was a competitive powerlifter and trust me we would push heavy. and I never had any issues with the CNS. that is pretty much nonsense and I wouldn't worry about that. the best symptom of overtraining would be inflammation developing in your joints and developing nagging injuries. that is when you should back off. our conditioning was so top notch that i can safely say i never had a single injury in those 2 years. what did get me injured though was football because you are pounding each other for 90 minutes a day. but lifting properly you shouldn't have issues. weightlifting is the safest sport out there.

You honestly think if you train in the 1-3 rep range for a month straight you're going to get stronger? Thats far from the truth, if you keep doing low rep heavy weight (1-3) you will get so burnt that your progress will go backwards..
I have experienced this myself many times on the bench press, after a month of maxing with heavy weights the weights felt heavier every week i was benching, CNS burn out is the only overtraining method i believe is true, hypertrophy workouts will not make you overtrain unless you do something stupid like 50 sets for every body part when you are natural..
Those days are over, now i only train for muscle growth, I train for strength too but not in the range 1-3 reps like before...

 

[eddymerckx]

ehhh ...he is all photoshopped...wait, back then you had to actually look like the picture.

 

[stevesmi]

You honestly think if you train in the 1-3 rep range for a month straight you're going to get stronger? Thats far from the truth, if you keep doing low rep heavy weight (1-3) you will get so burnt that your progress will go backwards..
I have experienced this myself many times on the bench press, after a month of maxing with heavy weights the weights felt heavier every week i was benching, CNS burn out is the only overtraining method i believe is true, hypertrophy workouts will not make you overtrain unless you do something stupid like 50 sets for every body part when you are natural..
Those days are over, now i only train for muscle growth, I train for strength too but not in the range 1-3 reps like before...

no i never said any of that. i am saying that the whole CNS thing is over blown and yes you can workout everyday. you should always exercise atleast an hour a day anyway.. humans are actually evolved to exercise more than that, we are not made to sit on our butts all day like most do today watching tv

 

[wootoom]

i dont believe in overtraining as long as im getting enough food

 

[Colstreamer]

There have been times in my life where I've trained more than 3 hours a day 5 sometimes 7 days a week, granted not 3+ hours entirely made up of heavy weight training but pushing yourself is pushing yourself. If you're used to just 1 hour per day suddenly jumping up to 3 is gonna drain you pretty quickly but you can build up to it. You think Mr Kosewski there started on 3 hours a day of weight training? Or maybe he built up to it over time?

 

[RADAR]

This is only true if you are taking steroids, anything above 700mg testosterone will not make you overtrain even training 3 hours a day 6 days a week, However you can overtrain even on steroids if you train for very low reps (1-3) because of taxing the CNS, the reason people say you can overtrain after 1 hour is because testosterone drops rapidly, since you have atifical testosterone you can keep going for another 2 hours..
I believe if you are natural you can overtrain even if you eat 10000 calories a day of good food..

I would highly doubt this, the body has a way of adapting to almost anything,as long as you feed it properly and get the rest needed everything else should fall in place, Heck i used to work 10 hr days pulp wooding,sometimes the work was so hard my body would scream for mercy from lifting those logs but i still grew.

 

[wootoom]

Radar! How have you been? I havent talked to you in awhile??? Sorry to highjack the thread haha

 

[RADAR]

Radar! How have you been? I havent talked to you in awhile??? Sorry to highjack the thread haha

Hi Bro , i need to slow down and give you a shout soon,Doing good thank god i no longer have to do any pulpwooding but it was a good learning experience when i was younger.

 

[wootoom]

Hi Bro , i need to slow down and give you a shout soon,Doing good thank god i no longer have to do any pulpwooding but it was a good learning experience when i was younger.

call me next week? we can catch up!

 

[doublebicep]

Age plays a big part in being able to train for hours. My joints and tendons simply do not allow me to do it anymore - natural or on cycle.

I noticed it most once I was in my 50's. Diet and sleep have become even more important then ever.

 

[wcjcMr.O]

i dont believe in overtraining as long as im getting enough food

exactly. IF your eating enough and getting your proper rest. Its damn near impossible to overtrain.


I have experienced overtraining symptoms before. And I know without a doubt that it was caused by insufficient calories.

 

[Srt8088]

Nelson just curious how long you ran dbol at 10 mgs a day for? Extended period of time due to low dosage or the normal 4-6 weeks?

 

[needtogetaas]

and sick geneticists to go with it all

 

[insanityapproved]

Nelson just curious how long you ran dbol at 10 mgs a day for? Extended period of time due to low dosage or the normal 4-6 weeks?

an even more important question here I believe is WHICH dbol was he running.

When I first tried pharm grade Naposim after using UGL crap for several cycles I felt a night and day like difference. I am pretty sure those were less than half dosed. I see guys taking 30mgs of dbol per day now ... I dare you to try and take 30mgs of the real stuff it'll blow your head open

 

[wcjcMr.O]

an even more important question here i believe is which dbol was he running.

When i first tried pharm grade naposim after using ugl crap for several cycles i felt a night and day like difference. I am pretty sure those were less than half dosed. I see guys taking 30mgs of dbol per day now ... I dare you to try and take 30mgs of the real stuff it'll blow your head open :d

lmao. I want some!!!!!

 

[Cali72]

an even more important question here I believe is WHICH dbol was he running.

When I first tried pharm grade Naposim after using UGL crap for several cycles I felt a night and day like difference. I am pretty sure those were less than half dosed. I see guys taking 30mgs of dbol per day now ... I dare you to try and take 30mgs of the real stuff it'll blow your head open

Same with anavar. Everybody including me is running 50mg/day minimum. Actually a lot of guys run > 70mg/day. Try running those dosages using pharma grade BTG oxandrolone.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson just curious how long you ran dbol at 10 mgs a day for? Extended period of time due to low dosage or the normal 4-6 weeks?

4 weeks prior to the show, stopped one week out , stayed with the Primo and switched to 25 mg of proviron till contest day. That was my big stack.

It was the Thai pentagon "pinkies." They were awesome. I can't compare, because I haven't done d-bol in years, but they were good -- not necessarily twice as potent as what you get now, but gear in general was a little purer back then.

 

[the small soldier]

I have some Arab diamond blues and those bad boys are legit at 30 mg a day I had back pumps so bad I couldn't squat had to cut my dose in half!

 

[mattrag]

VERY interesting read guys. 5 pages of great insight!