Not the Usual First Cycle Post

[T_R_S]

Hi Everyone,

I’m a little confused as I have been getting contradicting opinions from the people on the forums compared to the people I talk to in real life about my first steroid cycle.

I decided to post my question here because elitefitness seems to have to most knowledgeable and experienced members.

I’m having trouble taking advice from some of the people on the other forums after I see their pictures and hear some of the things they have to say. It’s hard to take advice from a long time AAS user who is lightyear’s behind you when you’re still natural.

Here are my stats:
Age: 23
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 185lbs
Bodyfat: 4%
Years of Consistent Bodybuilding Focussed Training: 5

I look bigger then my stats, everyone thinks I have been on the crank for a long time.

I’m an ex-competitive professional athlete in a sport which didn’t necessarily focus on huge strength or power but still, a lot of that training carries over and I have been training seriously most of my life.

After researching on the internet, reading a lot about PCT and such, this is what I came up with for my first cycle.

______________________________________________
250mg of Testosterone Enanthate Every 4 Days
which is equivalent to
437.5mg Every Week


Week 1-12: Testosterone Enanthate 250mg E4D
Week 2-12: HCG 250IU’s E3D (Increase to no more then 500IU’s E3D if needed)
Week 1-12: Nolvadex 20mg/d if gyno symptoms start to show

PCT:

Week 14: Nolvadex 80mg 1st day then 40mg/d
Week 15-17: Nolvadex 20mg/d
(Day 1 (one week after last injection) 80mg in a divided dose then 40mg a day for a week, then 20mg a day for at least 3 more weeks)

(Last HCG injection taken with second last Test E Injection)
_________________________________________________

I came up with this cycle while I was living/working in foreign lands. I recently just came home and I showed two of my friends my planned cycle. They are both very big guys and have been using AAS for about 10 years.

They told me that this cycle was a waste, and that it was the epitome of a “forum guys” cycle, the kind of person who is willing to inject possible harmful substances but doesn’t have the balls to do it large enough the first time while your receptors are fresh/sensitive.

He said it was like the girl who wants fake breasts, she knows what size she wants but instead gets a smaller size. A few years later she goes back for an increase, she should have just went for the larger size in the first place since she knew she wanted it but instead she wastes her time and money doing it twice.

My friends said that my first cycle is going to be the best chance for me to make the largest gains so I better take full advantage of it and go all out while my receptors are fresh.

I have to say, what my friends saying makes sense to me. If I wanted to stay healthy, train for fun, slowly make improvements on my physique, look good and feel good then I would just keep doing what I’m doing and stay natural.

The thing is, that’s not what I want, I have bigger goals then that, and I want to give this my all.

I hate people who pussy foot around when they know what they want, I’m not that kind of person, why start now?

On the other hand, I don’t want to completely screw up my body.

They both suggested I add T Bol (turanabol) to the start of my cycle, 3 a day. Not sure what that is in mg but I think it is 30mg a day.

They also suggested I add a 250mg shot of sustanon to my enanthate shot to get the advantages of using a blend and the fast acting propionate.

So it would look like this:

Week 1-4: Turanabol 3 pills a day (10mg a pill I think, but not sure)
Week 1-12: Testosterone Enanthate 250mg E4D
Week 1-12: Testosterone Sustanon 250mg E4D
(875mg of Test E+S a Week) they said to maybe even go up to 1g a week
Week 2-12: HCG 250IU’s E3D (Increase to no more then 500IU’s E3D if needed)
Week 1-12: Nolvadex 20mg/d if gyno symptoms start to show

PCT the same but maybe start one week later because of the higher dose of test.

Week 15: Nolvadex 80mg 1st day then 40mg/d
Week 16-18: Nolvadex 20mg/d
(Day 1 (two weeks after last injection) 80mg in a divided dose then 40mg a day for a week, then 20mg a day for at least 3 more weeks)

I have read some arguments stating when you first start you will be able to make great gains on a small dosage (400 to 500mg a week) and even if you increase the dosage to upwards of 1000mg a week you won’t see any better results then the lower dosage, only more side effects. I mentioned this to my friends and they said that this was false. Any input would be appreciated.

Please try to back your statements up and don’t just respond “your friends are f&%king idiots bro!!!”, or anything along those lines.

Thanks for your help,

T_R_S

 

[needsize]

I usually recommend test at 400-500mg a day for a first cycle, with possibly 30mg a day of dbol for the first couple weeks, so personally I think your cycle is fine. If your training and eating is good, then that much test is plenty for you to grow on a first cycle. Adding sus is a waste, the multi ester blends results in major peaks and valleys in your blood unless you inject it every other day. Your body is likely producing around 100mg of test a day, give or take, so you will be taking 4x that, which is plenty to grow....your buddy's advice is just bad, the point should be taking the smallest amount you need to grow, not being "brave" enough to go for higher doses right away
personally I dont like nolva on its own for pct though, I find nolva/clomid works much better, but thats just me

 

[nickster#1]

I usually recommend test at 400-500mg a day for a first cycle, with possibly 30mg a day of dbol for the first couple weeks, so personally I think your cycle is fine. If your training and eating is good, then that much test is plenty for you to grow on a first cycle. Adding sus is a waste, the multi ester blends results in major peaks and valleys in your blood unless you inject it every other day. Your body is likely producing around 100mg of test a day, give or take, so you will be taking 4x that, which is plenty to grow....your buddy's advice is just bad, the point should be taking the smallest amount you need to grow, not being "brave" enough to go for higher doses right away
personally I dont like nolva on its own for pct though, I find nolva/clomid works much better, but thats just me

^^AGREED^^ I think that the cycle of test-e only is your best bet. By what you say regarding your experince and stats, other than being a wee bit young, I think your ready to delve in to AAS. But I would give it another year or so before doing it. I think 23 is bare minimum age, and only if your diet and training, and experince is spotless.
I would do PCT diferantly though.
week 14-18 25mg nolva daily
week 14, day one clomid 200mg daily, days 2-11 100mg clomid daily, days 12-21 clomid 50mg a day.
30 to 60 days after pct, get bloodwork done. This has been my pct for every cycle I have done, and I have recovered to normal natty test levels everytime withing 90 days everytime.
good luck, welcome to the board and keep us posted.

 

[miplank]

stick to the test-e only for your first cycle. See how your body reacts before you start introducing a bunch of other stuff to it.

 

[Chocolate_Thunder]

I usually recommend test at 400-500mg a day for a first cycle, with possibly 30mg a day of dbol for the first couple weeks, so personally I think your cycle is fine. If your training and eating is good, then that much test is plenty for you to grow on a first cycle. Adding sus is a waste, the multi ester blends results in major peaks and valleys in your blood unless you inject it every other day. Your body is likely producing around 100mg of test a day, give or take, so you will be taking 4x that, which is plenty to grow....your buddy's advice is just bad, the point should be taking the smallest amount you need to grow, not being "brave" enough to go for higher doses right away
personally I dont like nolva on its own for pct though, I find nolva/clomid works much better, but thats just me

Good advice. I think he ment 400-500mg a week not day.

Personally, I hate nolva and clomid there are better options in my opinion.

 

[galaxy]

Funny the real guys recommended Tbol. I always thought of that as being a "forum" type of thing.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Test only cycle is the way to go....

250-500mg ew is enough supplemented with a good diet and ample rest.

And lol @ needsize recommending 400-500mg ed it's a mistake for sure.

 

[needsize]

Funny the real guys recommended Tbol. I always thought of that as being a "forum" type of thing.

lol...

btw I meant per week, not per day

 

[the_alcatraz]

lol...

btw I meant per week, not per day

lol...we know bro

 

[needsize]

lol...funny thing is I have run that much....

 

[swole]

lmfao @ go all out while your receptors are fresh

Ok, if that's the case then why not just do a gram of test, tren and 10iu's of HGH for your first run?

Ask them that...then when they say no fucking way, ask them why?

And when they tell you it's risky, then tell them so is running a stupid amount of test for your first run for the same reasons.

Development doesn't happen overnight, if you want to make waves in bodybuilding you're going to need to listen to your body and know what works FOR YOU. This takes years. Multiple cycles. You think a mega dose first cycle is going to push you right to the top? lol, you have a way to go. You have big plans, you want to get huge and compete? It won't happen on your first cycle. Maybe a gram of test works for your friends. It might not be necessary for you just yet.

I'm sorry but fake boobs don't aromatise, raise cholesterol and stress, suppress your HTPA nor do they add acne or speed up male pattern baldness. So that's not a good analogy.

They're only dangerous if they explode in your chest.

If you can't respond to 300mg then you're training is off and you're already making the first mistake of relying SOLELY on your gear to grow.

I've never run more than 300mg of test. And yes I'm a "forum guy."

You want my suggestion? Here -

WK 1-10 300mg Test E
HCG 1-10 250mg 2xEW

Don't use HCG for PCT. Use aromasin and clomid (or nolva). Sustain Alpha is one of our board member's product that stacks well with any PCT protocol.

Aromasin, not nolva on hand to fight off possible estrogen related sides such as bloating or gyno. 10mg twice per week should kill E conversion enough yet still keep your libido and gains strong.

I'm glad you came here for advice. I understand you want to be hardcore - but you have to be realistic and smart. Good luck.

 

[10001110101]

agree with swole. do 300-350 mgs wk, i did sus @ 250 e5d for my first cycle and blew up (added winstrol as well, but wouldn't ahve in retrospect) seriously it sounds like you know what you're doing as far as training and nutrition, fuck doing anything more than 500mg/wk for your first cycle, it's just going to go to waste... and then you have even more issues to deal with i.e. more difficult recovery, stretch marks, acne, gyno, female pattern fat deposition, hair loss... dude this whole maximize your first cycle is BS, my first cycle i lost most of my gains and had more sides than i wanted because i didn't just stick to one compound at a reasonable dosage and f'ed up my pct.

AAS are powerful drugs and there is a thin line between getting the most out of your gear usage and just taking on added side effects and risks for nothing.

seriously run 350mg/wk you'll be satisfied, slow steady gains but still MUCH faster than training natural, growing too fast you fuck with your joints, set yourself up for injury, and stretch marks are unsightly.

then after that you can run 500mg/wk for another cycle.

then after that you can run 500mg/wk add D-bol as a kick start for 4 wks.

then after that you can run 500mg/wk with 400mg/wk eq or primo and a d-bol kicker or var finisher.

you get the idea, i can bet you'll be cycling for a while, so take your time, do it right, enjoy it, have something to look forward to, baby steps.

 

[boychimalochi]

lmfao @ go all out while your receptors are fresh

Ok, if that's the case then why not just do a gram of test, tren and 10iu's of HGH for your first run?

Ask them that...then when they say no fucking way, ask them why?

And when they tell you it's risky, then tell them so is running a stupid amount of test for your first run for the same reasons.

Development doesn't happen overnight, if you want to make waves in bodybuilding you're going to need to listen to your body and know what works FOR YOU. This takes years. Multiple cycles. You think a mega dose first cycle is going to push you right to the top? lol, you have a way to go. You have big plans, you want to get huge and compete? It won't happen on your first cycle. Maybe a gram of test works for your friends. It might not be necessary for you just yet.

I'm sorry but fake boobs don't aromatise, raise cholesterol and stress, suppress your HTPA nor do they add acne or speed up male pattern baldness. So that's not a good analogy.

They're only dangerous if they explode in your chest.

If you can't respond to 300mg then you're training is off and you're already making the first mistake of relying SOLELY on your gear to grow.

I've never run more than 300mg of test. And yes I'm a "forum guy."

You want my suggestion? Here -

WK 1-10 300mg Test E
HCG 1-10 250mg 2xEW

Don't use HCG for PCT. Use aromasin and clomid (or nolva). Sustain Alpha is one of our board member's product that stacks well with any PCT protocol.

Aromasin, not nolva on hand to fight off possible estrogen related sides such as bloating or gyno. 10mg twice per week should kill E conversion enough yet still keep your libido and gains strong.

I'm glad you came here for advice. I understand you want to be hardcore - but you have to be realistic and smart. Good luck.

This is excellent advise!! You need to start off at a lower dose to see how your body responds. There are so many different things that happen to you when you take aas, these are powerful hormones that need to be respected. With each cycle you learn what each compound does, what does work for you and what doesn't. You will never find this out hitting 1gram in your first go. And if you do a gram a week first up, where to from there 2/3/4 grams?!?!? People who go too hard to soon burn out, they pull tendons off joints because they get too strong too quickly,heart, liver, kidney, skin, libido problems. Please take everyone's advise, they have lived it and are genuinely concerned for you. It is a long process of consistency, eating right, training and resting right day in and day out...It cant be done overnight.

 

[T_R_S]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the responses, sorry I have been travelling for the past few days so I haven’t had time to check the forum.

I’m glad to hear what all of you are saying because what my friends told me sounded f*&cking nuts after the research I have done. It didn’t make sense at all to me but I like to stay open minded so I thought I should ask anyways.

needsize: Thanks for the advice fellow canuck, what you said about the sus is what I have read in the past, I was wondering why he was recommending it.

nickster#1: I understand the concern about the age and I am still going to hold off for a little while, I’m just trying to plan it all out ahead of time. I would say that my diet, training, dedication, is all in tack so that should make up for my age a bit.

swole: Yeah that “go all out while your receptors are fresh” didn’t make too much sense to me. Now that I think about it the fake boob analogy doesn’t work at all. I have good genetics and good training/nutrition so I am sure I will grow like you wouldn’t believe even on small doses, so what your saying makes a lot of sense. Thanks also for the post cycle and gyno/side effect advice.

10001110101: It is good to hear from someone who did higher doses and multiple compounds their first time. It obviously sounds like it didn’t work out so good for you.

boychimalochi: I was wondering the same thing as you, if I start at a gram a week from the beginning then where the hell do I go from there?

When my friends first started telling me all of this it made absolutely no sense but as I said before I like to be open minded and look at all the possibilities. I really can’t imagine that I will grow that much more on their cycle compared to my original planned cycle. The only thing I think would happen is that I would have far more side effects and possibly screw myself up for the future.

Like my lifetime natural training partner always says, Rome wasn’t built in a day.

 

[T_R_S]

T-Bol?

So obviously the 1gram a week of test is not a good idea but what about the T-Bol at 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks? Needsize recommended D-Bol and I know a lot of guys who have done D-Bol with Test for their first cycle.

What do you guys think about this and what about using T-Bol instead? I heard it is very similar but has less side effects, based on what I have read about it, it sounds pretty good.

Thanks

 

[Big_Joe]

Well I tried T-Bol and thought it wasn't worth the shipping charge let alone what it cost out right.

Being your first cycle you have two choices. Do one compound, such as test. Or us more then one. So if you are going to do one compound then just run 500mg per week test and be done with it. If you are going to try something else don't reinvent the wheel. I started just like you. I was doing a 500mg per week cycle and it was going great. So I kicked it it up a level and added another 250 mg per week test and 450 per week of tri-tren. That comes out to 750 mg per week of test and 450 per week of tri-tren. It was the best cycle of my life. That was a long time ago and I don't remember how many weeks I ran it for but I don't think it was more then ten but it probably was eight. I know a lot of people will jump in my shit for this but that is what I did and it was great. Now I was a really big guy to begin with and I was pushing fifty also. So I wasn't a young one and I wasn't a little guy. So in the end it's up to you what you do and the reality is the rewards are yours also. So you pays your money and you takes your chances.

 

[shirlock]

Hey bro,

first cycle I done 250 mg of sus for 12 wks - gained 22 lbs and managed to keep about 17 lbs...train hard, eat hard & rest up

 

[cobracock1979]

first cycle looks good bro - add in Sustain Alpha and unleashed to PCT. Good work, well researched.