Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I see more and more people preaching not to go to failure on more and more sets and am wondering why? I really don't see how one can gain if the INTENSITY isn't at a very high level. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying going to failure in every set on every exercise is the way to go. I'm currently doing a 5x5 routine and obviously I don't work to failure on all my 5x5 sets, but my other exercises you bet your ass I am. I would like to hear pro's and con's from those who know why working(or not working) to failure is a good or bad thing.
Not Going To Failure??
- Thread starter tzan
- Start date
PancakeFiend
New member
i always thought if you wanted hypertrophy you had to break down muscle, so they would rebuild and adapt hence train to failure
Most of my sets are too failure or very close. Especially for the compound lifts like benches and deadlifts. And alot of sets since I can take a good beating. Now that Ive injured myself, I can see my back and chest shrinking from using lighter weights and machines, and not going to failure. So for me, it seems failure is the best way to make gains, along with high volume. Id say I go beyond what most lifters deem failure on certain lifts, because I will cheat out reps once my muscle reaches near complete fatigue. I used to do alot of forced reps , but dont usually have someone to spot me with them. Some good cheating can add extra tension at the end of a set however.
Now I don't have any scientific support on this, but this is the way I feel. As long as you eating, sleeping, and have enough rest days in your routine I can't possibly see how not going to failure on most sets would yield better results then going to failure. I mean if you get in the dungeon, work your ass off on ALL your lifts go home, eat, and rest how could that not be more beneficial then going in there and only going all out on a few sets??
PancakeFiend
New member
well sure you don't have to go to failure, personally i feel like i get more out of a workout going to failure, just my thoughts. Nothing's for sure and everything contradicts everything else. So go with what works for you because there sure are a lot of viewpoints and perspectives out there, none of them are entirely right or wrong.
IMO if you are not going to failure what is the point of the exercise, just slap some weight on the bar and lift. If you are going for a goal, train each set to the max. I know you can't always use massive weight with this type of workout but don't you want results? I think hypertrophy needs a lot of volume and varying intensity. Work the muscle out and hit failure, simple as that, as I said, IMO, but do what works for you and train only as hard as the results you want.
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Here's the skinny:
That one last rep when you hit failure causes only as much growth as any non-failure rep, but incurs much much more fatigue than any non-failure rep.
You gain nothing but lose the ability to lift sooner.
Take a look at powerlifters. Most never train to failure but are damned enormous.
That one last rep when you hit failure causes only as much growth as any non-failure rep, but incurs much much more fatigue than any non-failure rep.
You gain nothing but lose the ability to lift sooner.
Take a look at powerlifters. Most never train to failure but are damned enormous.
U
UA_Iron
Guest
I generally go to failure on my heaviest sets. I have seen good results by doing this and have no reason to change it. The last sets till failure sets a benchmark for me and then I know what I need to accomplish. I do feel like I need to go till failure to get a good workout like someone else stated.
Synpax
Well-known member
Well, here's the key for me. I do the Needsize thing.
If I don't have failure on the last 5x5, next time I increase the weight by two increments. If I do have failure, I increase it by one increment. If I had failure in an earlier set, I platue for a session or two and then switch to 5x3 for a few sessions and continue increasing weight, and then drop back to above the platue area for 5x5.
If I don't have failure on the last 5x5, next time I increase the weight by two increments. If I do have failure, I increase it by one increment. If I had failure in an earlier set, I platue for a session or two and then switch to 5x3 for a few sessions and continue increasing weight, and then drop back to above the platue area for 5x5.
Lord_Suston
New member
I find training to failure pointless and dangerous for myself. On heavy compound lifts my stabilizers will fail before my core muscles, by going to failure I take out all the supporting muscle and leave myself open to injury, muscle pulls, and dislocation. I mean who here hit failure on squats above 315, not many I know of, it would be too dangerous IMO. ALso all the microtrauma cause by failure takes a lot of time to heal and causes a lot of scar tissue. The build up of scar tissue will slow down contrction speed and hinder smooth muscle contraction. Honestly I think progressive loading is a great tool for growth, by alway going slightly up in weight you can let your body adapt to weight with ease with no breakdown in form.
collegiateLifter
New member
casualbb said:
I can't speak for other groups but the WSB guys train very near failure.
tzan said:
No, because if each rep is equally productive, it makes more sense just to stop and do another set after you've rested.
For instance, I'll use DC as an example.
You do one rest-paused set of 13 reps. Muscles are incredibly fatigued because you've gone to almost failure a whole bunch of times, even MORE fatigued if you go to negative failure.
But for all the grunting and effort you only got 13 reps out of it, meaning the muscle has been exposed to the weight 13 times.
It would be less fatiguing and equally productive to do 1 set of 7 and another set of 6. Or even better if you did 4x5 because you did more total reps.
Then instead of going home and feeling destroyed, you feel tired yet energized. Soreness is also decreased.
D
Debaser
Guest
collegiateLifter said:
Agreed, many powerlifters train to failure or very close.
Olympic lifters would be a better example.
SquatPukeSquat
New member
casualbb said:
Sounds logical, but does this really make sense? Verily, this would lead one to logically conclude that a set of 30 pound curls to failure (let's say, reached at 10 reps) is as productive as two sets of 30 pound curls, one to 5 reps, the other to 5. or perhaps, do one set of 30 pounders for one rep, rest, another set for one rep, until you hit your ten sets. you can get the same effect by following this approach, if the previously mentioned "logic" takes affect. Therefore, Casualbb has it right in my opinion.
SquatPukeSquat
New member
Lord_Suston said:
I fail every squat workout, and last week I failed at 425 after 7.
I've failed on high reps (up to 75) for squats, and as low as one. why does everyone think it is so dangerous? if you keep your form, you will eventually fail. everyone erroneously assumes that as you get more tired, this precludes one from keeping good form. Judging by the precedent set down in the past few weeks regarding failure, I must be a daredevil, or one of those people who are "crazy" and take freaky risks. I just thought I busted my ass.
collegiateLifter
New member
Debaser said:
even OLers i suspect get the 'strain' to a degree, though it is a much different manifestation.
D
Debaser
Guest
I define failure as the point where you can no longer make a rep with good form. So if you're doing a set of 5 deadlifts, but have to heave it up poorly after the 5th rep, the 5th rep was the failure rep in my opinion.
Lord_Suston
New member
SPS- maybe you are a Daredevil but training to failure is not need for myself. I get more results by progressive loading. Trust me I bust my ass, but I don't failure on compounds I got a injury on bench doing that. But this is my opinion for strength athletes
muscledog95
New member
Hey suston..how do you do your progressive loading.....shoot for 5lb each workout or one extra rep? I know some that shoot for like 10lb a week...just not gonna happen
muscledog95
New member
I try and get 5lb each week.......but im learning fast that 5lb a week is real hard to do
Lord_Suston
New member
I go for 2.5 or 5lbs a week, I actually own 2--1.1/4lbs plates. But I add reps on some working sets or weight depending on where I am at in training or what I am going for. Example if I need more power endurance I might do clean and jerk with 135x8 one week and next week try for 10, and maybe the week after go for 12. From there I know how many reps is target goal, so if I get up to 20 reps with 135 and that is goal reps then I start adding weight each session if I can get all 20 reps. So both methods combine sometimes
IMO. If you train close to failure you will get some kind of gain. Don't you think. I mean how do you set your weights, you set them at a percent of your 1rm. If you train close to failure you can achieve more, because you are taxing the muscle more. Some might disagree with volume training and overload (reps or sets as oppossed to weight). My opinion. Worked for me and my clients. Too many variables, weights, reps, sets and speed. what is absolute failure. Always learning and trying new things. What is the consensious
Dorian'sDisciple
New member
gays and girls don't but real men train to failure (and sometimes beyond ) 
