No recovery 6 months after deca need desperate help

[Hiver13]

Age : 22
Cycle : 1
Cycle was : 1-10 deca 1-12 test e
Arimidex during cycle

FIRT PCT
Nolva 40 20 20 20
Clomid 100 100 50 50 50 50
Both 6 weeks. My balls went bigger then shrunk again.

Blood test : 0 test low lh/fsh

SECOND PCT (2 months after)

HCG @500iU ed
Clomid 50 50 50 50
HCGenerate
Unleashed

All for 6 weeks (except HCG for 3 weeks)

1 months after my balls shrinks again.
Blood test : loooow test, low lh fsh.

What should i do ? Third PCT ? How much HCG etc ?

Please help. And please to moderators, be honest don't try to sell me your products (phytoserms). I want to live.


So should I kill myself or I could recovery one day ? I want to do big hCG shot. Good idea ?

 

[stevesmi]

so you want help but then tell moderators not to tell you to use products that actually work?

I keep telling you people on here that clomid and nolva don't do shit for recovery, you are a perfect example of this.. once they are out of your system you crash back down, they do not help recovery, they DELAY recovery .. that's why your balls keep shrinking back down after plumping up .. I used nolva/clomid pct the first couple cycles i ran and i learned the hard way. funny how I have ran many many cycles the past few years and put up bloodwork and always recover with bloodwork to prove it, yet people insist on reverting back to PCT's that were cool during the Reagan presidency

when you are ready to do it right PM me how bout that.

 

[Raptor67]

I've heard lots of good things about using Aromasin and hcg for pct, you've been shutdown 6 months, a few more hours googling won't kill you and you might learn something too

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using EliteFitness

 

[Hiver13]

I can buy your products if it is honest and works...

I went to a doc who is into steroids here in switzerland. He told me not to read the crap on the internet and to take 4x5000 IU HCG with clomid and nolva. I was worried about LH desentizisation. He told me it appears even with low dose and is reversible.

 

[stevesmi]

I went to a doc who is into steroids here in switzerland. He told me not to read the crap on the internet and to take 4x5000 IU HCG with clomid and nolva. I was worried about LH desentizisation. He told me it appears even with low dose and is reversible.

lets look at the facts and decide if this 'doctor' knows what he is doing. does he even lift? does he even use steroids? if yes and yes.. does he look like he lifts and uses steroids? lol.. remember Nazi 'doctors' would do horrible experiments on children during WWII so just because someone is a doctor doesn't make them smart or a good person. in my experience most doctors are just rich kids whose parents put them through med school.

hcg suppresses your LH and FSH and boosts T levels because it mimics LH. once you stop taking it your LH and FSH needs to recover and your T levels come crashing down.. how does it make any sense to use hcg during pct?

clomid and nolva will boost your LH, FSH, and T levels while they are in your system. once they are out of your system then you lose that manipulation and your LH, FSH and T levels come crashing back down even lower than before. so essentially it is a bridge into pct to give you a temporary bounce but after that it is useless.

so from that lets deduce the absolute BEST way to run a pct

start with hcg while the steroids are tapering out of your system
then run the SERM's as a bridge into pct.
while the SERM's are tapering away now its time to break out the whip and add in your non suppressive and natural T boosters. Phyto-serms ingredients CANNOT be found anywhere for cheaper, it also contains an anti-estrogen as part of the ingredients, no other T booster can say that. another great PCT supplement is T stack Rx. its pricey but it has 12 of the best T boosting ingredients out there and I would use either phyto or T stack depending on which one is the better deal.

so to summarize this is what you do if you want to break out the whip, notice how I overlap things on purpose below.

hcg 250iu's 2-3X per week .. weeks 1-4
clomid 12.5mg ED or EOD weeks 3-6
T stack RX or Phyto weeks 5-13 1-3 caps per day (whichever one has the better deal go with)

Ruthless Supplements << for Phyto-serms, no code needed its on sale right now so load up
http://w3.teststackrx.com/109.html << for T stack SVWQ6R9E code after you put 2 in your cart for buy 1 get 1 free. if that doesn't work you can always do the buy 3 get 1 free deal when you put 4 in your cart.

 

[Hiver13]

lets look at the facts and decide if this 'doctor' knows what he is doing. does he even lift? does he even use steroids? if yes and yes.. does he look like he lifts and uses steroids? lol.. remember Nazi 'doctors' would do horrible experiments on children during WWII so just because someone is a doctor doesn't make them smart or a good person. in my experience most doctors are just rich kids whose parents put them through med school.

hcg suppresses your LH and FSH and boosts T levels because it mimics LH. once you stop taking it your LH and FSH needs to recover and your T levels come crashing down.. how does it make any sense to use hcg during pct?

clomid and nolva will boost your LH, FSH, and T levels while they are in your system. once they are out of your system then you lose that manipulation and your LH, FSH and T levels come crashing back down even lower than before. so essentially it is a bridge into pct to give you a temporary bounce but after that it is useless.

so from that lets deduce the absolute BEST way to run a pct

start with hcg while the steroids are tapering out of your system
then run the SERM's as a bridge into pct.
while the SERM's are tapering away now its time to break out the whip and add in your non suppressive and natural T boosters. Phyto-serms ingredients CANNOT be found anywhere for cheaper, it also contains an anti-estrogen as part of the ingredients, no other T booster can say that. another great PCT supplement is T stack Rx. its pricey but it has 12 of the best T boosting ingredients out there and I would use either phyto or T stack depending on which one is the better deal.

so to summarize this is what you do if you want to break out the whip, notice how I overlap things on purpose below.

hcg 250iu's 2-3X per week .. weeks 1-4
clomid 12.5mg ED or EOD weeks 3-6
T stack RX or Phyto weeks 5-13 1-3 caps per day (whichever one has the better deal go with)

Ruthless Supplements << for Phyto-serms, no code needed its on sale right now so load up
http://w3.teststackrx.com/109.html << for T stack SVWQ6R9E code after you put 2 in your cart for buy 1 get 1 free. if that doesn't work you can always do the buy 3 get 1 free deal when you put 4 in your cart.

What an awesome post thank you man !
My doctor doesn't lift but follow more than one hundred bodybuilders in my country and he suggest to kick the HPTA with 2 angles for PCT : SERMS to force the hormone production and HCG to restart the balls. But if HCG really shut down LH/FSH, that my blood work confirm (0 LH/FSH after HCG) yes HCG should be a big NO for PCT and my doctor would be wrong. Actually he told me that HCG boost the LH....

So. I'm not sure that serms are only "temporary". I think they block the oestrogen receptors and make the body panic. That way the body would produce test quicker. There are a ton of threads that say SERMS faster the recovery. I hear a ton of hate against SERMS on this forum. I don't understand why.

hcg 250iu's 2-3X per week .. weeks 1-4
clomid 12.5mg ED or EOD weeks 3-6
T stack RX or Phyto weeks 5-13 1-3 caps per day (whichever one has the better deal go with)

Since HCG has cleared I don't see any reason to start T boosters 3 weeks later. Clomid are not going to cancel their effects. HCG has a short half-life.

Phytoserms contains only an herbal extract, Bulbine Natalensis, that you can find here by exemple 1000 times cheaper. 360TEST by 360CUT at Bodybuilding.com - Lowest Prices on 360TEST!
I don't need an AI. I have arimidex. (what does aromasin have more than arimidex ? and why people say both yes and no for putting an AI during pct ?)
Now for HPTA recovery when you're in my case. I think I have to take :

- HCGenerate
- T Boosters
- Unleashed
- Post-Cycle
- Clomid or not ? I Have nolva on hand too. Not be used more than 6 weeks. Can I do 2 weeks break then restart a 6 week SERM cycle ? I can help recovery.
and :
- Pray God
- Relax
- Arimidex if my estro is too high ?

 

[stevesmi]

how does hcg boost LH when it mimics LH? your doctor is an idiot, I don't doubt he follows 100 bodybuilders in your country but keep in mind those boydbuilders stay on year round, they don't cycle and don't even know how to spell post cycle

when you are on the SERM it boosts T levels and LH, but when you come off they come crashing down, its like opening up a dam.

 

[Azazell]

Just do the PoWeR PCT, it works and backed up by research. I am not saying anyone is wrong but I found it this is the best PCT for restarting HPTA.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

Google it, its one of the best PCTS.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

Age : 22
Cycle : 1
Cycle was : 1-10 deca 1-12 test e
Arimidex during cycle

FIRT PCT
Nolva 40 20 20 20
Clomid 100 100 50 50 50 50
Both 6 weeks. My balls went bigger then shrunk again.

Blood test : 0 test low lh/fsh

SECOND PCT (2 months after)

HCG @500iU ed
Clomid 50 50 50 50
HCGenerate
Unleashed

All for 6 weeks (except HCG for 3 weeks)

1 months after my balls shrinks again.
Blood test : loooow test, low lh fsh.

What should i do ? Third PCT ? How much HCG etc ?

Please help. And please to moderators, be honest don't try to sell me your products (phytoserms). I want to live.


So should I kill myself or I could recovery one day ? I want to do big hCG shot. Good idea ?

I suggest you do the full run with the perfect PCT (except the 2 week bridge): The Perfect Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) - Evolutionary.org

Extent it to 6 weeks, staying with a clo/nol/n2 combo.

 

[Hiver13]

azazell Thanks I know this PCT, 8 shots of 2500 iU EOD with serms then serms alone for a while. There are a lot of topics about that.
I'm gonna try it in 2 months. The problem is I don't want to use HCG again in PCT. But maybe HCG is the only way to bring balls back to life.

A problem is that my balls constantly shrinks and grow. Last two days they were big, now shrunk like hell. Maybe tomorrow big again etc. for 6 months.

Wolfpack alpha tanks too, but I don't think I need to buy N2Guard for recovery and I I don't need aromasin too, low estrogen is not good for recovery, I've heard a ton of people saying NO AI DURING PCT. SERMS can cause HPTA shutdown too. I don't see any benefit of the Perfect Post Cycle Therapy except buying expensive stuff from your sponsors.

My plan now is :

- Stop the serm (it is my 6th week)
- Unleashed/HCGenerate/Bridge
- Pray and check blood

If I still have not recover in 2 monthsm I'm gonna do the thing above (8 big HCG shots with SERMS).
If it fail, TRT for life at 22......only after one 10 weeks deca cycle.

 

[badguysingh]

When taking steroids we play a game like taking chances bro. theres ppl i know who run 3-4 long cycles per year or ppl i know who run 1-2 cycle per year and been doing dat for over 8-10 years and they have recovered fine and then i know guys who cycled like 2 times in there life and still havent recoverd and done pct after pct. Do a POWER PCT or PERFECT PCT. Plus DECca is gonna take a long time 2 get out ur system nd take long time 2 recover bro. Those pct are pretty long and Try them and then stay cleab eat right and train for a few months atlest and get tested. after dat if u dont recover TRT is ur option or stay like how u r .

 

[RickRock13]

No AI in PCT is a very bad idea. That's where estrogen rebound comes into play, and a lot of people find out the hard way and end up with titties after their cycle is finished

Aromasin is perfect for recovery in PCT by preventing estrogen rebound, lowering SHBG and increasing IGF

 

[stevesmi]

azazell Thanks I know this PCT, 8 shots of 2500 iU EOD with serms then serms alone for a while. There are a lot of topics about that.
I'm gonna try it in 2 months. The problem is I don't want to use HCG again in PCT. But maybe HCG is the only way to bring balls back to life.

A problem is that my balls constantly shrinks and grow. Last two days they were big, now shrunk like hell. Maybe tomorrow big again etc. for 6 months.

Wolfpack alpha tanks too, but I don't think I need to buy N2Guard for recovery and I I don't need aromasin too, low estrogen is not good for recovery, I've heard a ton of people saying NO AI DURING PCT. SERMS can cause HPTA shutdown too. I don't see any benefit of the Perfect Post Cycle Therapy except buying expensive stuff from your sponsors.

My plan now is :

- Stop the serm (it is my 6th week)
- Unleashed/HCGenerate/Bridge
- Pray and check blood

If I still have not recover in 2 monthsm I'm gonna do the thing above (8 big HCG shots with SERMS).
If it fail, TRT for life at 22......only after one 10 weeks deca cycle.

HRT at 22 after 1 cycle? ... I hope the results were worth it .. if you resort to doing that it will be your first major mistake of your life.

 

[stevesmi]

Just do the PoWeR PCT, it works and backed up by research. I am not saying anyone is wrong but I found it this is the best PCT for restarting HPTA.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

Google it, its one of the best PCTS.

is that why the OP did that pct twice and is still shutdown after 6 months? cause its the best pct ? I don't need some nerd at some university up north who never even popped a nut into a girl above a 3 doing tests on rats to lecture real life experiences what is a good pct and what isn't. research doesn't trump real life. just like how watching porn doesn't count as having sex just like how Chuck Norris shooting up a bunch of people on a movie set doesn't count as real military experience

 

[Hiver13]

I think i can avoid HRT I guess...
I hope so

@stevesmi who is the OP ?

 

[Zyglamail]

My opinion is you are so far past your end of cycle now lay off the HCG, thats just further keeping your pituitary depressed.

If in the past your testicular size increased with past PCT rounds that a decent indication your testis are responding to LH/FSH your body just isnt releasing LH/FSH and it wont as long as you keep jumping on and off HCG.

At this point you need to stop doing anything that it going to hamper any natural hormone production anywhere in the chain.

 

[Hiver13]

Hey guys I have a friend (girl but not girlfriend) who has pity of me and proposed me wild sex every day to boost sexdrive and maybe test...
Sounds like a joke but this is serious, there is definetly a link between libido and test.

Do you think it could help ? This was my idea and she has accepted I won't say no

 

[Hiver13]

My opinion is you are so far past your end of cycle now lay off the HCG, thats just further keeping your pituitary depressed.

If in the past your testicular size increased with past PCT rounds that a decent indication your testis are responding to LH/FSH your body just isnt releasing LH/FSH and it wont as long as you keep jumping on and off HCG.

At this point you need to stop doing anything that it going to hamper any natural hormone production anywhere in the chain.

Woaw thats a great point here ! I know my testicles are responding because they shrink sometimes. The problem is the LH/FSH

HCG can be sometimes used in PCT with heavy ass doses to kick the balls and show them how to work again. It means in my case, if the balls grow sometimes HCG is useless. Thanks.

I take HCGenerate, it should boost LH but hasnt done that much..Bridges too
Can SERMS help restart the LH/FSH factory in the brain ? Should I do another SERMs therapy after a 2 weeks break ? (just done a 6 weeks of clomid/nolva without any result)

Gonna buy phytoserms on monday hope it is always on sale.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ okay but what we are trying to explain to you is that hcg suppresses LH and FSH, so its not a good idea to use in pct. but to use to kickstart pct. there is a big difference.

phyto-serms should still be on sale on Monday.. you just have to use the link here >>> Ruthless Supplements

 

[Azazell]

is that why the OP did that pct twice and is still shutdown after 6 months? cause its the best pct ? I don't need some nerd at some university up north who never even popped a nut into a girl above a 3 doing tests on rats to lecture real life experiences what is a good pct and what isn't. research doesn't trump real life. just like how watching porn doesn't count as having sex just like how Chuck Norris shooting up a bunch of people on a movie set doesn't count as real military experience

I believe that research matters. Real life experience is governed by so many factors. In research, its a controlled environment, you know that X is happened because Y.In his research all the men recovered after doing that cycle even men that were suppressed for a long time..

Now, I know that you have more real life experience than most of us and I am pretty sure that you know more than me. I was just suggesting to him something that worked and was documented. However, he should take the advice of an experienced individual such as you.

But I still believe that the PoWeR PCT has its place. It's well documented PROVEN with blood tests, and all the men that tried it recovered well. I personally tried and I recovered the fastest on it.

 

[Zyglamail]

I believe that research matters. Real life experience is governed by so many factors. In research, its a controlled environment, you know that X is happened because Y.In his research all the men recovered after doing that cycle even men that were suppressed for a long time.

The problem with research is that just because you add X does not mean it was the cause of Y. Most people dont know enough to be able to pick apart poorly done stidues and get led to beleive incorrect information.


One example, many studies have been don about the efficacy of selenium supplementation. Some report a benefit, some report no benefit and some even report negative effects.

Now how on earth can that be? Its because selenium, just like everything we put in our body, doesnt exist in a vacuum. If you add selenium to someones diet and they do not have a deficiency then there is no benefit.

If you add selenium and there is a deficiency you will often get a benefit BUT if the person is also deficient in iodine when you add selenium you cause problems.

Just because something looks like cause and effect doesnt mean it is cause and effect, there are usually many other factors that can come into play and if the study doesnt take that into account then its basically worthless.

 

[redheat7]

I don't use serms at all and I recover well unleash/post cycle with AI but then I don't cycle past 10-12 weeks and no 19nor for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stevesmi]

I believe that research matters. Real life experience is governed by so many factors. In research, its a controlled environment, you know that X is happened because Y.In his research all the men recovered after doing that cycle even men that were suppressed for a long time..

Now, I know that you have more real life experience than most of us and I am pretty sure that you know more than me. I was just suggesting to him something that worked and was documented. However, he should take the advice of an experienced individual such as you.

But I still believe that the PoWeR PCT has its place. It's well documented PROVEN with blood tests, and all the men that tried it recovered well. I personally tried and I recovered the fastest on it.

the studies are flawed when it comes to recovering from PCT. as I wrote above went over your head let me attempt to explain it again.

when you take hcg your LH and FSH tanks, and your total T goes up. now according to a 'study' that would mean that hcg boosts T levels and recovers you right? WRONG. because its mimicking LH and fooling the body into producing test.. when you stop taking the hcg now your LH and FSH are low and must recover and your total T tanks back down. so in reality you did not recover. clomid and nolva are the same way. you take them, they manipulate the body and your LH and T levels will go up. then when you stop taking them after a week or two when it trickles out of your system your levels go from 1000 to 200. what ends up happening though is guys do not realize this so they run bloodwork while its in their system, declare themselves recovered and then jump back on cycle when in actuality they are NOT recovered at all in most cases. so i would argue that manipulating your bodies hormones like this will DELAY recovery, not speed it up. does this make sense? I hope it does

also I will add that hcg will boost your E levels and nolva/clomid will cause a roller coaster affect as well with E levels usually down. the problem with this is if your E levels drop too fast you can lose libido and experience depression.

 

[stevesmi]

and I will add that 'deca' is an ester commonly used in nandrolone but the reality is that nandrolones are used in anti-fertility drugs and have been for YEARS. so to run nandrolone is almost like neutering yourself, people need to understand this BEFORE touching the stuff that there are risks involved. this is why we tell young guys to steer clear of nandrolones but they refuse to listen, and for heavens sake never run it as a first cycle for crying out loud!

also tren will wreck your immune and stomach flora health, and will affect your prolactin levels.. it also should never be abused and never be touched by young guys or used for extended amounts of time in moderate doses.

I have to repeat myself OVER AND OVER AND OVER again telling you young guys this but you fail to heed my warnings because you all are fucking stubborn and in a rush to become Jay Cutler overnight ... its takes years and even decades to even sniff your max potential but you want results in 12 weeks

you want something safe? primo, EQ hell even Tbol and you don't even need much.. . but those aren't sexy enough and because they don't slap on 15 pounds of water weight overnight young guys don't even know what they are. if i'm at the gym overhearing young guys they always talk about dbol, deca, tren.. I never hear primo or EQ even mentioned.

 

[Hiver13]

Azazell thats really interesting. I believe you, don't worry about that, but do you have a link where they show the study or the protocol or anything related ?
Where do you get that from?

With a PCT that always works some people could do longer cycle and gains more.