Newbie Qs

[turkeyrun]

Blood from a newbie...

I am an enurance athlete (mostly running) and have been toying with the idea of either HRT or AAS to assist me in those goals. My biggest problems right now are bodycomp (~25%, but with a very good diet and good exercise) and fatigue. I decided before even going down that road to get my blood work done so I could see what I was doing. I'd really appreciate any opinions or feedback from you folks:

* Testosterone (total) is at 367 (normal for my age is 250-1100). As an athlete this rather low level obviously makes a pretty big impact. I train anywhere from 7-20 hours a week, so my ability to recover is pretty weak as is my ability to build lean muscle.

* TSH is 2.77 (range is .5-5.5). I was surprised at where this was, because of the difficulty I have in sheding weight. I have been thinking about T3, but am concerned about sides.

* A quick question too, I had my estradiol tested and got the score of 25. What is the normal level for a 32 yo male?

Thanks for all your help, this is a very great board!
Turkeyrun

 

[turkeyrun]

Re: Blood from a newbie...

Anyone?

 

[mikefear]

Lose weight

 

[njmuscleguy]

How old are you? That would be a good indicator of whether or not your current test levels are "normal", regardless of what your athletic goals are... as it stands, you're within range for test level, it's not *that* low.... so most doctors would not consider (or at least should not consider) you as an HRT candidate.

As Mike said, consier losing a good amount of weight first. That will help reduce fatigue and improve endurance...and it will most likely improve your test levels as well!

Also, E2 range is between 10-55, so you're ok.

 

[rakasha681]

How old are you?

he's 32yo

 

[solidspine]

I am an enurance athlete

Try winny

Winny and test

 

[solidspine]

Remember the commercials


Breakfast of Champions


That was



Winny and Test

 

[njmuscleguy]

he's 32yo

I just caught that...


So for a male between the ages of 30-40, the "normal" test range is 350-1010... so he's definitely within healthy range....

 

[turkeyrun]

Thanks all, just got back from the doc and we decided to give androgel for a while to bring the level up. I told her I was interested in some aggressive treatment too, and we decided I'll go elsewhere for that if need be.

As for weight loss, that is exactly the problem. I have been trying pretty hard for 4 weeks now with a pretty darn good diet, not perfect, but still haven't lost an ounce. I'd like to get to 15% or lower by the end of January or so. But, we shall see.

I am suprised at the advice of winny and test, I would have thought eq and test. Why winny over eq?

Thanks again guys for the advice!

 

[immortalis]

...
As for weight loss, that is exactly the problem. I have been trying pretty hard for 4 weeks now with a pretty darn good diet, not perfect, but still haven't lost an ounce.
...

First off, 4 weeks is nothing but a blink of an eye. Comittment requires a change in lifestyle, not a change in behavior for 1 month. However if you really have dedicated yourself for 1 month and you have not lost an ounce of weight, you really need to re-evaluate your diet and workout routine.

Post your diet and normal workout schedule up, so that we can get a better idea of where you stand. Also, what is your height and weight so that we can determine your BMI and we will go from there.

 

[PWTurbofan]

Thanks all, just got back from the doc and we decided to give androgel for a while to bring the level up. I told her I was interested in some aggressive treatment too, and we decided I'll go elsewhere for that if need be.

As for weight loss, that is exactly the problem. I have been trying pretty hard for 4 weeks now with a pretty darn good diet, not perfect, but still haven't lost an ounce. I'd like to get to 15% or lower by the end of January or so. But, we shall see.

I am suprised at the advice of winny and test, I would have thought eq and test. Why winny over eq?

Thanks again guys for the advice!

I'll chime in with my experience with AndroGel since I've been on the stuff for about 6 weeks. I went to my doc (a urologist) complaining of fatigue and lack of progress in my workouts. He ran full blood tests, including all sex hormones (Total T, Free T, FSH, LSH, Estradiol) and concluded that I was low T. My Total T came back at 420ng/dL, and according to the lab sheet, the normal range for a dude my age is between 400 and 1080 ng/dL. I've since asked him why I often see other ranges published on the Internet that are somewhat different (alot of resources say that 250 is the lower-end of normal and 1200 is the upper-end), and he said that different labs will provide different ranges based either on known publications or their own internal test pools. In any case, the doc recommended that I start HRT and prescribed the max dosage of AndroGel - 2 packets of 50mg T applied once daily.

Keep in mind that AndroGel is only absorbed about 10% through your skin in the recommended application sites - upper arms, chest, shoulders. This means at the dosage I was prescribed, I'm only taking in about 10mg T per day (70mg/week). There are ways to increase the absorption of transdermals, however; for example, I've been applying one packet on my boys (yeah it stings like a mofo for the first couple times, but it lightens up), and this has significantly improved my results...My latest bloodwork showed that I was near the upper-end of the range, and I was pumped about that.

To be honest, after 6 weeks of HRT, I've been lovin the effects so far. My workouts have been much more effective, I'm beginning to lose some of the stubborn fat on my lower abs, and my mood, energy and libido have all dramatically increased. However, after only 6 weeks of therapy, I'm getting real annoyed with the Androgel. It is a pain in the ass to apply faithfully everyday, esp given the nut job I'm doing . And you have to be mindful of bein with chicks within 5 hours of application; it's been shown that skin-to-skin transfer occurs, esp. during rough play . Sure this may give her a little pep and put more spring in her step, but too much of a good thing is bad for them - esp if she starts growing a beard! Also, even after the stuff dries, if you become sweaty, your skin will feel slimy on the application site. So this is something to consider with the gel. You might want to ask your doc about injectables, such as Depo-Test...I am having a hard time pushing my doc in that direction; he wants me to try a sublingual gum or pellets implanted in my ass - and that ain't gonna happen.

Lastly, you need to ask your doc what her long-term plans are for you and HRT. My doc says he only wants me on this stuff for 8-12 months after which time he plans to ween me off in hopes that my natty T prod has increased on its own. I don't understand the mechanism by which this is possible, but he's the expert so I'm going with the flow. My nuts have taken a bit of a hit (luckily I had some size to spare ), but they're still in good shape so I don't think I've shutdown natty prod too extensively. But again, depending on your situation, you will want to know if she views this as a very long-term (if not permanenet) solution or not.

Ultimately I'm gonna run a T-only cycle, but for now I'm enjoying the ride and feel that this is giving me a good base from which to start. If you're considering AAS in the future, just an FYI...I mistakingly asked my doc about AAS because I thought he might understand, and he said that if he detected abnormally high T during the routine bloodwork (which is required during HRT) that I would be discharged from his care. So be sure your doc is cool with it, or only consider AAS after the HRT (if the HRT is temporary in your situation), cuz you don't want to lose your prescrip.

Hope this helps, and good luck-

 

[turkeyrun]

Thanks for the great reply! Hopefully my effects will be similar. The long term plan really is a monitor and see what happens, no plans to ween off. I also am starting slower than you, 1ED 2.5g packet... I think if I was going to do AAS I'd need to come up with a good plan on how to either stop the stuff, do the cycle, then check blood levels, but I don't know...

 

[PWTurbofan]

Thanks for the great reply! Hopefully my effects will be similar. The long term plan really is a monitor and see what happens, no plans to ween off. I also am starting slower than you, 1ED 2.5g packet... I think if I was going to do AAS I'd need to come up with a good plan on how to either stop the stuff, do the cycle, then check blood levels, but I don't know...

Based on what others have said, you will want to stop the Androgel if you start a cycle...Save it up for post-cycle, and your PCT will be reduced or eliminated since you're providing the needed T and don't have to work in cranking natty prod....That is, IF you plan on staying on this stuff for a long time.

I've been toying with the idea of starting an 10-week cycle after I get my next prescrip or two filled (I get 3mo supplies at once). Immediately after I got my prescrip, I would stockpile it and hit the juice. I would push off my doc's bloodwork until the end of 12 weeks (when the prescription would technically be depleted if I were using it), thereby giving me 2 weeks to bring my T levels back to a "normal" state with the gel so as not to be detected by the doc. (If anybody has thoughts on this, let me know)

Again, you just need to be sure of what your doc's policy on AAS is...You are going to be required to do bloodwork, and while cycling your T is going to go thru the roof and she's gonna know it ain't normal for Androgel HRT - esp at only 1 2.5g packet!