New Ala Results Post

[tyguy]

I know a lot of guys have been using ALA. Let's get some new post about results. Let us know how much ala is used a day, approximate carb consumption and if AS is a factor or not.

Anything I am missing? Throw in any sides or positive benefits of ALA that aren't commonly noted.

Ty

 

[tyguy]

 

[rangerx83]

I know a lot of guys have been using ALA. Let's get some new post about results. Let us know how much ala is used a day, approximate carb consumption and if AS is a factor or not.

Anything I am missing? Throw in any sides or positive benefits of ALA that aren't commonly noted.

Ty

Sure why not.... Start 4/1 178lbs @ approx 4.5bf %. Right now, 186lbs @ 3.8%bf. Two more months to go. Using about 4500mg/day with 600gm-800gm carbs. Also using sust and equipoise, both of which I've used extensively before (at larger doses), but never saw my bf go down while lbm went up......

Side effects? Major pissing at night... (noticed this mostly on days I take ALA....(sometimes I run out for a few days, and the pissing stops)

Oh and I've done some stupid crap while in a ALA stupor. Be careful with large doses....


rangerx83

 

[tyguy]

Sounds pretty good ..... bump!

 

[Suspension]

tyguy- you got a PM bro.

 

[Mighty P]

I'd like to hear more about the stupid stuff you did. I want to know what to watch out for!

 

[macDbol]

gained 20 pounds in 24 hours

 

[tyguy]

gained 20 pounds in 24 hours

thanks, i figured you would.

 

[BUTLER]

Re: Re: New Ala Results Post

...Using about 4500mg/day with 600gm-800gm carbs.

Are you supposed to increase carb intake while taking ALA?

 

[trial0r]

what is the dosage range...i.e.
medium 3000mg, high 4500mg ? just guesses

 

[futrmro]

DO NOT>>>

DO NOT, NEVER EVER EVER mix ala and ghb.I'm still going back and forth to the hospital with a skin allergy. I was fine using 2g of ala a day.Took some "G" on Wed of last week and have been having major complications ever since.Doc said that the two were a big NO NO together.I'm so swolen and red that I haven't been able to walk or go to the gym.Please take my adive DON"T MIX THE TWO

 

[ZKaudio]

man.... i swear the ALA has actually made my complection worse =/

 

[maxellyz]

right now taking 1800mg per day dont think i will go any higher for now heard of some bros having problems when taking 3000+ mg per day, so be careful....

 

[THeMaCHinE]

man.... i swear the ALA has actually made my complection worse =/

I'm going to have to agree with you on that... maybe it's the time of year or something though... I was looking forward to the skin-clearing properties as I had run across abstracts that recommended a 1% topical solution for skin problems, plus anecdotally, a lot of guys were reporting good skin from it...

Anyway, I just finished up a 3-week ALA burst. 1st week @ 1500 mgs/day and I never got into ketosis; weeks 2 & 3 went between 2500 and 3500 mgs/day and remained consistently in (at least) trace ketosis (as measured by ketostix 2x - 3x day). Carbs ran between 200 - 400 /day. Lost about 10 lbs. over the 3 weeks, yet strength remained consistent and visual appearance improved, so I do believe it was bad weight... Diet did improve somewhat over the same span as well.

Side effects? Bad skin and lethargy, but increased hardness/vascularity -- felt "on" at times...

I think on my next ALA burst, I'm going to run it at 2500 - 3500 mgs/day throughout for 4 weeks; stack in 50-100 mgs/day of 5-htp for improved mood and carb cravings and some ZMA for improved sleep and replenishment of the chelated materials. I will probably also run it with grapefruit extract to improve efficacy through P54 and CYP3A4 enzymes. I will also have some psyllium husk on hand for bad fat binge meals. All for dirt cheap. Pretty amazing stuff all in all...

 

[tyguy]

I am thinking of buying a kilo of l-trytophan and taking 5-7grams ENight before bed. I know this doesn't relate totally to ALA but is just an idea of how all of the boyz that want to remain natural can. .... l_trytophan increases growth hormone and helps with sleep... I will give it try and tell you bros what I think.

Ty

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I am thinking of buying a kilo of l-trytophan and taking 5-7grams ENight before bed. I know this doesn't relate totally to ALA but is just an idea of how all of the boyz that want to remain natural can. .... l_trytophan increases growth hormone and helps with sleep... I will give it try and tell you bros what I think.

Ty

E2 used to talk about doing this. Havoc had great results on 3 grams a day. I'd be interested in trying this, but haven't found an affordable source for bulk L-tryptophan. Post a link if you have it...

I'd also like to know if 5HTP -- the main derivative of l-tryptophan -- is the ingredient that exerts these effects...

 

[DaMan]

I'm going to have to agree with you on that... maybe it's the time of year or something though... I was looking forward to the skin-clearing properties as I had run across abstracts that recommended a 1% topical solution for skin problems, plus anecdotally, a lot of guys were reporting good skin from it...

Anyway, I just finished up a 3-week ALA burst. 1st week @ 1500 mgs/day and I never got into ketosis; weeks 2 & 3 went between 2500 and 3500 mgs/day and remained consistently in (at least) trace ketosis (as measured by ketostix 2x - 3x day). Carbs ran between 200 - 400 /day. Lost about 10 lbs. over the 3 weeks, yet strength remained consistent and visual appearance improved, so I do believe it was bad weight... Diet did improve somewhat over the same span as well.

Side effects? Bad skin and lethargy, but increased hardness/vascularity -- felt "on" at times...

I think on my next ALA burst, I'm going to run it at 2500 - 3500 mgs/day throughout for 4 weeks; stack in 50-100 mgs/day of 5-htp for improved mood and carb cravings and some ZMA for improved sleep and replenishment of the chelated materials. I will probably also run it with grapefruit extract to improve efficacy through P54 and CYP3A4 enzymes. I will also have some psyllium husk on hand for bad fat binge meals. All for dirt cheap. Pretty amazing stuff all in all...

You ran 200-400g of carbs a day and complain the handful of ALA caps didn't induce ketosis? Uhm... it's not quite that easy my friend.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

You ran 200-400g of carbs a day and complain the handful of ALA caps didn't induce ketosis? Uhm... it's not quite that easy my friend.

Dude, what are you talking about? I said I started at 1500 mgs/day for a week, that didn't induce ketosis; I upped to 2500 mgs - 3500 mgs/day and that did. Did you misread what I wrote?

 

[TraxZBT]

Re: DO NOT>>>

DO NOT, NEVER EVER EVER mix ala and ghb.I'm still going back and forth to the hospital with a skin allergy. I was fine using 2g of ala a day.Took some "G" on Wed of last week and have been having major complications ever since.Doc said that the two were a big NO NO together.I'm so swolen and red that I haven't been able to walk or go to the gym.Please take my adive DON"T MIX THE TWO

don't understand why. I've been taking G and ALA for 3 months now and i'm fine. I don't take them together of course, but I take ala with my meals and put some G in my postworkout shake along with the ala. Maybe you just got unlucky.

 

[HugeWannabe]

bump for more experiences, good idea for a thread tyguy

 

[argent]

Re: Re: DO NOT>>>

don't understand why. I've been taking G and ALA for 3 months now and i'm fine. I don't take them together of course, but I take ala with my meals and put some G in my postworkout shake along with the ala. Maybe you just got unlucky.

You put G in your post workout shake?

 

[tyguy]

You put G in your post workout shake?

I think he is talking about Glutamine...... but not sure.

 

[kto]

I've been using ALA for 2 months now and it gets to be pricey. I take about 1500 mgs per day with carb meals. I typically consume around 150-200 grams of carbs per day (wheats in the morning and veggies at night).

The results: During the 2 months, I've noticed an increase in LBM while a decrease in the fat deposits in my ab area. Overall, the ALA is making me lean out quite a bit without any sacrifice in muscle mass.. My striations are now more visible.
Side note: Typically, when I take the amount of carbs mentioned above, I start to get fatty deposits on my love handles and my abs starts disappearing, however, ALA has counteracted this.

Side effects: Feel very lethargic, and lazy. I personally would not take this supplement as a pre-workout supp. I too have to seriously pee at night when I take it with my last meal. I thought that it was just natural aging process. Fianlly, my urine stinks! Hope this helps

 

[LONE_AZ]

I'm going down to Kilo sports tomorrow to pick some up. I have a couple questions.

Do I need to increase my carb intake?
How much do I need to take a day?
When should I take it?

Weight 200 BF 11%

And I believe that your pee stinks because of ketosis but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I'm going down to Kilo sports tomorrow to pick some up. I have a couple questions.

Do I need to increase my carb intake?
How much do I need to take a day?
When should I take it?

Weight 200 BF 11%

And I believe that your pee stinks because of ketosis but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, its the acid. You'll get the stench whether you're in ketosis or not -- it just becomes markedly more powerful as you ingest more.

If you've ever had asparagus, it's the same smell. Asparagus is where ALA comes from.

 

[NY Muscle]

I'm going down to Kilo sports tomorrow to pick some up. I have a couple questions.

Do I need to increase my carb intake?
How much do I need to take a day?
When should I take it?

Weight 200 BF 11%

And I believe that your pee stinks because of ketosis but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I was just informed Beyond A Century (BAC) has It cheaper, $15 for 50gms I think, but Kilosports usually has the best prices in bulk ($369.00 a kilo) so im questioning the quality of the ALA from BAC.

hmmmmm

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I'm going down to Kilo sports tomorrow to pick some up. I have a couple questions.

Do I need to increase my carb intake?
How much do I need to take a day?
When should I take it?

Moderate carby diet -- 200 - 400 grams/day average; you have to have moderate carbs in your diet for it to work is the way I understand it.

The lowest I've seen anybody go into ketosis was Corn -- that was at 1500 mgs/day; 2500-3500 seems to be the average dose necessary to induce ketosis

Take it with every carb-containing meal, right before eating. Slide the scale, for instance, with a 16 oz glass of skim milk, I might take 500 mgs, with a serving of pasta, I might take a full gram.

Get ketostix at your local pharmacy or Wal-Mart; this will tell you exactly when you enter into ketosis and how deep into ketosis you are. You can adjust your ALA dosage levels from this information (not in ketosis? add more ALA, deep in ketosis? subtract until you're at a level you want to be in consistently).

Personally, I'd start at 2500 mgs/day and go up from there -- but it may vary from day to day with your actual carb intake...

I used the powder from BAC. $16/50 grams.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I was just informed Beyond A Century (BAC) has It cheaper, $15 for 50gms I think, but Kilosports usually has the best prices in bulk ($369.00 a kilo) so im questioning the quality of the ALA from BAC.

hmmmmm

Buy what you want. BAC worked for me and several others I've talked to on the boards. I'll be buying it again.

 

[LONE_AZ]

Thanks Bro,

But

Do you mean 200-400 mg a day or 200-400 grams a day?

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Thanks Bro,

But

Do you mean 200-400 mg a day or 200-400 grams a day?

whoops! I meant 200-400 grams of carbs/day lol

 

[NY Muscle]

Buy what you want. BAC worked for me and several others I've talked to on the boards. I'll be buying it again.

No doubt ill buy it but I’m just being skeptic that’s all. I have like 100gms left from kilosports and ill get some from bac next….is your powder bright yellow and almost like small crystalline type texture?

 

[THeMaCHinE]

No doubt ill buy it but I’m just being skeptic that’s all. I have like 100gms left from kilosports and ill get some from bac next….is your powder bright yellow and almost like small crystalline type texture?

Yeah, bright yellow, kind of a light, airy powder -- I guess very small crystalline might describe it. I can understand being skeptical; I'm skeptical as hell too -- especially when it comes to supps. I'm really never fully convinced until I see first-hand results from personal experience. And then you just have to hope they don't switch it out on you or the quality changes from batch to batch, etc...

Perhaps some of the costs are offset because they don't cap their product, and there is minimal investment in the storefront and packaging...

 

[tyguy]

Hey guys, I can get you a whole kilo (2.2 pounds) of ALA for $250. I can get it shipped directly from the manufacturer. If you are interested give me an email at [email protected]

One more thing... my 250mg caps came into day so I will have orders going out tomorrow. They are 12.5 cents for a 250mg Factory made cap. Professionally done so they will be accurate.

Ty

 

[NY Muscle]

Hey guys, I can get you a whole kilo (2.2 pounds) of ALA for $250. I can get it shipped directly from the manufacturer. If you are interested give me an email at [email protected]
.

Ty

Damn thats cheap

 

[tyguy]

Damn thats cheap

Yeah, I know, makes me wonder what KILOSPORTS mark up is. Eventually I am planning on running 100grams of ALA for $25. But I haven't the proper facilities yet to safely repackage ALA powder. When I do, I will buy a bulk amount of ALA and sell it at a cheap cost.

I eventually plan to have a full product list and am planning a website. If you want a kilo I can get it shipped directly from the manufacturer to your residence so it will arrive in its original packaging. Let me know what you want to do.

Ty

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I'll go in on a kilo with a couple guys if anybody is interested...

 

[NY Muscle]

I'll go in on a kilo with a couple guys if anybody is interested...

Yeah i feel the same way, i dont need a whole kilo, 300gms is fine for me.

 

[georgie24]

500 MG PER MEAL ON MY CARB UP DAYS AND NEVER LEAVE KETOSIS
MY TIPICAL REFFED LOOKS LIKE THIS
2 SLICES OF PIZZA
#1 AT DUTCHESS
4 BALANCE BARS
WHEY SHAKE W/SKIM( I GET KICKED OUT REALLY FAST IF THERS NO ALA)
A BURRITO
CUP OF OJ
YOGURT

SPREAD OUT OVER 36 HOURS. ITS WELL OVER 600 G OF CARBS

 

[BUTLER]

Now the stupid question, what is ketosis? Obviously it's a state that your body is in where I'm guessing it burns a lot of fat, is it like an optimum desired state? help me out here, sorry if it's a stupid question.



Thanks

 

[AUcowboy]

First off my experiences with ala, been running it 3 weeks at 1000 to 1500mg on low carb diets >100g. To date ive lost about 10lbs mostly fat bc people are telling me i'm getting bigger, i cant really explain this except to say maybe my muscles are fuller due to excess stored glycogen, i really dont know though.

As to the question above about ketosis, in very basic terms, (which i really like to use), you deprive your body of carbs and eat mostly fats and protein, your body then starts to get its energy from these fats hence you lose weight. Just stay away from the carbs and you can eat basically whatever you want.
Thats the way i say it if anybody else wants to kick some info in,

n

 

[trial0r]

is it bad to stay on ala for an extended period of time?? how bout results for bulking

 

[steel10]

Re: DO NOT>>>

DO NOT, NEVER EVER EVER mix ala and ghb.I'm still going back and forth to the hospital with a skin allergy. I was fine using 2g of ala a day.Took some "G" on Wed of last week and have been having major complications ever since.Doc said that the two were a big NO NO together.I'm so swolen and red that I haven't been able to walk or go to the gym.Please take my adive DON"T MIX THE TWO

Futrmro--
When you say don't mix them, do you mean don't take them in the same few hour time period or that when taking ALA ed, don't use G period? Also, is it just for complexion/allergy purposes that you say this? The reason I ask is that I have been taking about 2g of ALA ed for the past 7 weeks and recently started taking a few grams of G before going out about 2-3 times per week (as I am on d-bol and don't want to drink at all). I have noticed that the G is really affecting me (even at like 3 grams), but didn't know if there is anything I need to worry about in this respect. Thanks bro.

 

[gUiLe]

I guess I should chime in. Been using at 3000 to 4000 for about
2/3 weeks now. Results?? Da shit is trully miraculous! I have made the decision to STOP taking it for a while. I'm not happy
about it since in the time I have been taking this stuff, my body
has transformed quite a bit into a much leaner and harder
physique. Problem is, we don't know how safe this stuff is
for prolonged periods. I have been in almost CONSTANT ketosis
at about 200/300 grams of carbs per day!! Side effects???
Lethargic, and a new one that I just noticed this week. When I
move my eyes from side to side real fast, I feel a weird sensation
that is VERY uncomfortable. It's almost like a dizzy feeling. This
combined with the lethargy is the main reason I have to let up
on it for a while. The way I found it to be MOST beneficial was in
doses like this;

Breakfast 300/600 mg's
Lunch 600mg's
Postworkout 1200mg's (Ultra Fuel w whey isolate)
Postworkout meal 900mg's (This is about an hour after the shake)

The last two are THE most important. I will stop for the week, and
see how I feel. I couldn't make it to the gym all week because I
felt so tired and "out of it". Then (like the schmuck that I am) I
go tonight, and couldn't resist another 1200mg post! None
tomorrow though....I hope
g

 

[gUiLe]

Oh, I almost forgot. My skin looks like shit! When I first started,
it did look REAL nice. I have a bunch of acne looking shit on my
forehead Starting to clear up a bit though.
g

 

[methblue]

Okay, this might seem like a really really stupid question, especially comming from someone who takes pride in being a bodybuilder, but... how exactly do you know when you ARE and when your NOT in ketosis? Im ordering a shipment of ALA from iceman, and am going to start in at 1g a day, and take it from there.. I want to know though, what to expect when im in ketosis.. any specifics would be appreciated. *crawls back into dark hole*

mr meth

Dude, what are you talking about? I said I started at 1500 mgs/day for a week, that didn't induce ketosis; I upped to 2500 mgs - 3500 mgs/day and that did. Did you misread what I wrote?

 

[EndOfSilence]

 

[rangerx83]

Re: Re: Re: New Ala Results Post

Are you supposed to increase carb intake while taking ALA?

It depends whether you're trying to cut or bulk. I had great success cutting with ALA going from 12%bf to approx 4.4%bf in about 2 months or so... Was in ketosis most of the time. At times I would take massive amounts of ALA regardless of the amounts of carbs I had. It truly worked. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one, and that this is repeatable...

I am now bulking up and am using mass quantities of ALA. My results are better than I ever expected. I had expected the ALA to minimize the amount of fat gained during my bulk phase. Instead I am actually gaining LBM, while my fat is still dropping!(I'm at 3.8% bf!)

That's right, not only did it not go up or even stay the same, it's actually still going down, even while bulking!

This is leading edge stuff, and am experimenting with slowly increasing my carb intake, until I start noticing my BF% going up.

I am now taking about 100gm of carbs during lunch (rice, potatoes) with ALA.

I also take 210 grams carbs (carbo force, sometimes ultrafuel) just before working out, and another 100gms of carbs for dinner.
(All with ALA of course, about 1500mg with each meal)
That's approx. a pound of carbs/day. I want to see if I can reach 1000gms (a little over 2 lbs) /dayand still lose fat while bulking.


In my opinion. ALA *is* god's gift to bodybuilding. To lose fat while actually gaining LBM was always an unreachable goal.... I have never gotten this type of fat loss even with T3 or clen A bit pricey but it's truly awesome, and works wonders with androgens.
Glad to see you all are getting decent results.

regards,

rangerx83

 

[rangerx83]

I'd like to hear more about the stupid stuff you did. I want to know what to watch out for!

Sure ,

1) after having my post workout meal with some ALA, went to catch a train. The train arrived, the doors opened and I forgot to get in, and just watched the train leave. :

Acidentally deleted wrong files from my PC. This one really burns me up.

Watch out for that ALA stupor, although I must admit it seems to be lessening with time, somewhat

For example I can take 1500mg ALA with about 200gm carbs before working out. Once I start working out, no more daze, stupor or confusion, just incredible workout, with even more amazing pumps...



rangerx83

 

[rangerx83]

I've been using ALA for 2 months now and it gets to be pricey. I take about 1500 mgs per day with carb meals. I typically consume around 150-200 grams of carbs per day (wheats in the morning and veggies at night).

The results: During the 2 months, I've noticed an increase in LBM while a decrease in the fat deposits in my ab area. Overall, the ALA is making me lean out quite a bit without any sacrifice in muscle mass.. My striations are now more visible.
Side note: Typically, when I take the amount of carbs mentioned above, I start to get fatty deposits on my love handles and my abs starts disappearing, however, ALA has counteracted this.

Side effects: Feel very lethargic, and lazy. I personally would not take this supplement as a pre-workout supp. I too have to seriously pee at night when I take it with my last meal. I thought that it was just natural aging process. Fianlly, my urine stinks! Hope this helps

Your results are exactly what I have experienced. Good stuff hey?

I would disagree however about not taking this supplement just before working out. I take 1500mg and 200gm ultrafule 30 minutes before working out, and not only does the lethargy and stupor disappear within 5 minues after I start pumping, but I get the most a*fooking*mazing pumps I have ever gotten. And I do mean ever....

rangerx83

 

[tyguy]

Hey guys... my ALA came in today... about 7000 (250mg ALA)caps are being shipped tomorrow... I have about 5000 caps left... I orded 15000 so there are 2000 caps that people reserved that haven't yet contacted me. If you want them let me know.

Ty

[email protected]

 

[rangerx83]

First off my experiences with ala, been running it 3 weeks at 1000 to 1500mg on low carb diets >100g. To date ive lost about 10lbs mostly fat bc people are telling me i'm getting bigger, i cant really explain this except to say maybe my muscles are fuller due to excess stored glycogen, i really dont know though.

As to the question above about ketosis, in very basic terms, (which i really like to use), you deprive your body of carbs and eat mostly fats and protein, your body then starts to get its energy from these fats hence you lose weight. Just stay away from the carbs and you can eat basically whatever you want.
Thats the way i say it if anybody else wants to kick some info in,

n

The reason people think you're getting bigger is because you're getting more cut, and your muscles are also filled to the brim with glycogen+water.You probably weigh less. It's an optical illusion....
People will always think that the 180lbs guy who is extremely cut is stronger and bigger than the 210lbs guy who may have some blubber on his gut....

Now with respect to ketosis when taing ALA, since one is consuming moderate carbs, what is happening is that over time, you are depleting the glycogeb stored in your liver, but because the ALA pushed all carbs into your muscles, your liver gets very little glucose, and as a result you have ketosis while taking in carbs..

rangerx83

 

[rangerx83]

I guess I should chime in. Been using at 3000 to 4000 for about
2/3 weeks now. Results?? Da shit is trully miraculous! I have made the decision to STOP taking it for a while. I'm not happy
about it since in the time I have been taking this stuff, my body
has transformed quite a bit into a much leaner and harder
physique. Problem is, we don't know how safe this stuff is
for prolonged periods. I have been in almost CONSTANT ketosis
at about 200/300 grams of carbs per day!! Side effects???
Lethargic, and a new one that I just noticed this week. When I
move my eyes from side to side real fast, I feel a weird sensation
that is VERY uncomfortable. It's almost like a dizzy feeling. This
combined with the lethargy is the main reason I have to let up
on it for a while. The way I found it to be MOST beneficial was in
doses like this;

Breakfast 300/600 mg's
Lunch 600mg's
Postworkout 1200mg's (Ultra Fuel w whey isolate)
Postworkout meal 900mg's (This is about an hour after the shake)

The last two are THE most important. I will stop for the week, and
see how I feel. I couldn't make it to the gym all week because I
felt so tired and "out of it". Then (like the schmuck that I am) I
go tonight, and couldn't resist another 1200mg post! None
tomorrow though....I hope
g

gUiLe,
first of all I'm glad that you think the stuff is truly miraculous. I understand your concern, but didn't you just start the ALA recently? Now, as far as the length of time you were in ketosis, please be aware that ketosis is safe for extremely extended periods of time. Epileptic children are given a ketogenic diet because it prevents them from having convulsions. I assure you that they are on much longer in ketosis than you or I have been. I was using ALA for 3 months and was in ketosis for most of that time. I haven't had any problems.

The reason why I think that ALA is truly safe is because it gets out of your system so damn fast. Its half life is only 30 minutes, meaning in half an hour there will be only half left of whatever you ingested earlier. There is no build up of ALA to toxic levels in your system over time.

Coincidentally, its short half life is probably why you need to take a gram or two with each meal to get dramatically noticeable visual effects on you physique. You need to have over a certain minimum amout of ALA circulating in your blood pushing mutrients into muscle cells for about 45 minutes to an hour. I would estimate that miminum amount is 400mg of ALA.

Working backwards, in order to get a minimum of 400mg ALA for 45 minutes in your blood stream, you need to take about 1200-1500mg with each meal.


2 weeks ago I started taking 100gm+ utlrafuel with ALA 30 minutes befire working out. (i'm now taking 200gm carbs pre-workout with ALA now) And while I do feel the lethargy start, every single time, as soon as I start pumping iron, the lethargy, fatigue, and slight dizziness are replaced with amazing pumps, and incredible strength. Every time. You can't beat that.
You could also take an ECA 1-2 hours before you start the workout. That will also minimize the lethargy.And as far as the dizzyness is concerned, I too experienced that when I was dietiing down. It's a function of how much carbs you're taking with how much ALA. Increase the carbs, or lower the ALA or both...

If you wait too long after taking the pre-workout carbs+ALA, then chances are you won't make it to the gym at all!

Hope you'll give ALA a chance again once you start the hormone therapy. The results from ALA when bulking seem to surpass the results for just dieting down ...


regards,

Rangerx83

 

[TraxZBT]

Re: Re: Re: DO NOT>>>

You put G in your post workout shake?

yup.. here's my post workout shake
60 grams protein
75 grams dextrose
900 mg ALA
10 grams creatine
2ml GBL

i feel the G always relaxes me after a nice workout. It's a pretty good way to loosen up. Plus the increase in HGH isn't bad either..

I think he is talking about Glutamine...... but not sure.

nope GBL

 

[ZKaudio]

Okay, this might seem like a really really stupid question, especially comming from someone who takes pride in being a bodybuilder, but... how exactly do you know when you ARE and when your NOT in ketosis? Im ordering a shipment of ALA from iceman, and am going to start in at 1g a day, and take it from there.. I want to know though, what to expect when im in ketosis.. any specifics would be appreciated. *crawls back into dark hole*

Ketosticks... you pee on em like a home pregnancy test!...

BTW BUMP, This stuff makes me lethargic as hell. I can honestly say that for fatburning it would be an amazing combo to combine ALA with an ECA to keep the energy back up. Anyone on ECA and ALA?

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Hey rangerx,

I'm thinking of stacking in 50-100mg/day of 5HTP on my next ALA burst to improve mood and cut carb cravings; also thinking of throwing in some (generic) ZMA to replace some of the chelated materials -- and possibly reduce feelings of lethargy... What do you think?

Also, can you tell me a little bit more about how you use psyllium husk (dosages) for (bad) fat meals?

 

[gUiLe]

gUiLe,
first of all I'm glad that you think the stuff is truly miraculous. I understand your concern, but didn't you just start the ALA recently? Now, as far as the length of time you were in ketosis, please be aware that ketosis is safe for extremely extended periods of time. Epileptic children are given a ketogenic diet because it prevents them from having convulsions. I assure you that they are on much longer in ketosis than you or I have been. I was using ALA for 3 months and was in ketosis for most of that time. I haven't had any problems.

The reason why I think that ALA is truly safe is because it gets out of your system so damn fast. Its half life is only 30 minutes, meaning in half an hour there will be only half left of whatever you ingested earlier. There is no build up of ALA to toxic levels in your system over time.

Coincidentally, its short half life is probably why you need to take a gram or two with each meal to get dramatically noticeable visual effects on you physique. You need to have over a certain minimum amout of ALA circulating in your blood pushing mutrients into muscle cells for about 45 minutes to an hour. I would estimate that miminum amount is 400mg of ALA.

Working backwards, in order to get a minimum of 400mg ALA for 45 minutes in your blood stream, you need to take about 1200-1500mg with each meal.


2 weeks ago I started taking 100gm+ utlrafuel with ALA 30 minutes befire working out. (i'm now taking 200gm carbs pre-workout with ALA now) And while I do feel the lethargy start, every single time, as soon as I start pumping iron, the lethargy, fatigue, and slight dizziness are replaced with amazing pumps, and incredible strength. Every time. You can't beat that.
You could also take an ECA 1-2 hours before you start the workout. That will also minimize the lethargy.And as far as the dizzyness is concerned, I too experienced that when I was dietiing down. It's a function of how much carbs you're taking with how much ALA. Increase the carbs, or lower the ALA or both...

If you wait too long after taking the pre-workout carbs+ALA, then chances are you won't make it to the gym at all!

Hope you'll give ALA a chance again once you start the hormone therapy. The results from ALA when bulking seem to surpass the results for just dieting down ...


regards,

Rangerx83

Rangerx- Very interesting that you are now taking in so many
pre-workout carbs with your ALA. What are you eating post-workout? As far as my decision to take a break from the ALA, I
am VERY torn about it. I have never had success like this with
just about any drug let alone supplement. So for me to just stop,
very hard to do. What about cycling? I weight train 4 days a week. What about taking it ONLY on weight training days??..and
not on cardio days?? What about taking it three weeks on one
week off?..would that kind of clear the "weird feelings" that I
am getting? It's not just lethargy, I'm talking about feeling not
right. Like in a daze sometimes. Try moving your eyes back and
fourth real fast. It might be the increase in the glutithione and
only a temporary thing, but I don't like it. Also, how much EXTRA
iron are you taking in?

I am VERY anxious to hear your response on this because it
was YOU who really gave me the incentive to try upping the ALA
and so far....(besides the sides, if you can call them that) people
think I'm jucing NOW!
g

 

[gUiLe]

Rangerx- What do you think of this post?? This is pretty much
the SAME way I have been feeling.


possible nero problems from ALA

I have taken 3000 mg a day for 3 weeks and have been off for 3 weeks or so. I have this new sensation from my eye's now. If I move them fast from one side to the other this nerve sensation ingulfs my complete head. Some times I can feel the sensation all the way to my arms. I have read that ALA gets nerve ending going that have failed in patients with certain neo problems. I feel that a few of my nerves in my eyes have crossed over to the wrong nerves. Has anyone else ran into this using ALA. Please take this serious, I am not kinding.

 

[NY Muscle]

What about taking it three weeks on one
week off?..would that kind of clear the "weird feelings" that I
am getting? It's not just lethargy, I'm talking about feeling not
right. Like in a daze sometimes. Try moving your eyes back and
fourth real fast. It might be the increase in the glutithione and
only a temporary thing, but I don't like it.
g

Everyone, this is so simple, I think its just too simple you over look it,…its called LOW BLOOD SUGAR….take a shot of insulin and wait 30 minues..how do u feel? VERY similar to this “foggy” feeling we are all feeling….ALA is a POWERFUL glucose disposal agent, does its job so well that it gives insulin like side effects….i took 500mg last night with my post w/o shake which only had 25gms of carbs in it, and I also did some cardio b4 the post w/o shake…for 2 hrs after I felt like shit and had to lower my radio cause the slightest nose made me nauseous….

 

[gUiLe]

NYMuscle- I hear what your saying and it TOTALLY makes sense,
but...your telling me you took 500 with your post workout shake.
I am taking 1200 to1500mg with my post workout shake. Quite
a difference. I guess I am just trying to say that we still don't know how safe it is to take 3 to 4 grams of ALA for prolonged periods of time. How much do you take? I read a LOT of people
who are giving opinions, but are only using 1200 a day! Today,
I didn't take ANY ALA and STILL feel in a fog. I am ONLY in
trace ketosis now and took in plenty of carbs today (WHole wheat
bagel w egg whites).
g

 

[NY Muscle]

guile -

Well 25 gms of carbs and I took 500mg of ALA I think that’s PLENTY to take with such low amount of carbs…im dieting now and started ALA last week, I take maybe 1500mg a day maybe 2000, im eating less than 125-150gms of carbs a day so more than what im taking is gonna be a waist… the reason you still feel shitty is because of the high dose you are taking and also because ALA is a sulfur containing compound (hence the nasty piss smell which is NOT KETONES), too much of that sulfur may be the culprit behind the EXTENDED feeling of crap….just a guess..

I dont feel these other side effects you get just heartburn occassionaly. im gonna try 900-1000mg b4 lifting with some carbs and see how that works, i need a good pump.

 

[gUiLe]

im gonna try 900-1000mg b4 lifting with some carbs and see how that works, i need a good pump.

I was thinking the same thing. So much for me givin it a rest
Are you using any anabolics with your cutting diet? I was planning
on starting a bulking cycle soon, but want to be very aware of
not takin in too many calories. Are you taking in any extra iron?
That is another symptom of fatigue, low iron.
g

 

[NY Muscle]

I was thinking the same thing. So much for me givin it a rest
Are you using any anabolics with your cutting diet? I was planning
on starting a bulking cycle soon, but want to be very aware of
not takin in too many calories. Are you taking in any extra iron?
That is another symptom of fatigue, low iron.
g

No juice im done with that…..and I normaly do ZERO carbs (CKD style) with juice but since no juice now and just lots of Glutamine and some creatine….i am not going zero carbs, trying to hold on to as much LBM as possible…im gonna prob get some insulin and decrease the ALA dose or get rid of the ALA altogether….i need something to keep my LBM. Im down almost 20lbs now, all from 5am cardio and clean diet...the morning cardio is the trick...and just started yohimburn last week, and i like it so far.


Maybe I should take 1 extra iron tab a day or just use a multi mineral complex? Ill get some today.

 

[gUiLe]

Maybe I should take 1 extra iron tab a day or just use a multi mineral complex? Ill get some today.

Since ALA sucks the metals out of your body, supplementing is
a good idea. I am taking an extra iron tab a day, but at 3 to 4
grams of ALA, maybe I need more iron. BTW- Your avatar looks
awesome! Your in great shape for sure!!
g

 

[NY Muscle]

Since ALA sucks the metals out of your body, supplementing is
a good idea. I am taking an extra iron tab a day, but at 3 to 4
grams of ALA, maybe I need more iron. BTW- Your avatar looks
awesome! Your in great shape for sure!!
g

thanks bro - im 5 10, guess my weight in that pic

 

[gUiLe]

5"10...hmm....I would say...170/180??

 

[NY Muscle]

5"10...hmm....I would say...170/180??

nah thats my blood pressure....

lol JK

 

[Lumberg]

Ok, this seals it. I am definitely picking up some of this stuff. I was using CLA with which I see some results but nothing like the people here have reported. I was going to wait until I used up my CLA but ALA here I come.

JC

 

[decadense]

I wonder if combining ALA with metformin would give insulin-like results.

 

[NY Muscle]

I wonder if combining ALA with metformin would give insulin-like results.

Metformin SUCKS get Tolbutamide or if you can handle it Glipizide, Glip makes me feel like im usuing insulin.

 

[gUiLe]

nah thats my blood pressure....

lol JK

Then what's the number! Too bad I don't have my avatar up
there. I am currently 6'5 and at 258. Nobody can EVER guess
my weight. They always say shit like "Uhh..225?"
g

 

[HugeWannabe]

I am pumped for my ALA to come in 500mg caps any day now! I will be running 3000mg ED with iron on my clen/winny/t3 cutting cycle! I will post my results.

 

[gUiLe]

Huge- All I can say is....be prepared!! When you start to see how
fast this stuff works, you WILL be amazed!! Good luck!!
g

 

[MightyYardApe]

I take ALA powder just for the taste! There's nothing like adding 1-2 grams to a post-workout shake. Delicious!

 

[cockdezl]

Because of the molecular similarity of lipoic acid and biotin, evidence shows that biotin-dependant enzymes may be lowered from chronic high dose ALA use.

Try adding about 5-10mg of biotin/day. Biotin has also been shown to imrove glucose disposal due to its ability to increase glucokinase activity.

 

[decadense]

Just wait till pure R-lipoic acid is available. It will likely be more effective at half the dose. Normal ALA is half S lipoic acid which is unnatural and can reduce insulin sensitivity.

 

[anabolicann]

I got mine about three weeks ago the first week i ran it at 1000mgs breakfast lunch and dinner total of 3000mgs per day I was in ketosis after 24hrs. But only in trace ketosis so i bumped it up to 4500 per day then i noticed my eyes where hurting like when i get the flu sore at the top above my eye lids and that night i didn't work out felt lazy and tired so i whent to bed and started to get a fever like feeling begane to sweet and had to take some time off work then the following day i picked up where i left off on the ALA and it happened again i guess the dose made me glycemic or something so i have held off till monday when i will start again but only at 3000mgs per day.. thats what happen to me this is a good thread..

 

[HugeWannabe]

I will be using ala @ 500mg per meal (3000mg ED) and each meal has no more than 40 carbs, (200 total) will i stay in constant ketosis? What are the degreees of ketosis? Should I get the pee sticks?

 

[rangerx83]

thanks bro - im 5 10, guess my weight in that pic

You are 210lbs give or take 10 lbs, at approx 6.5%bf

So how far off am I?

rangerx83

 

[NY Muscle]

You are 210lbs give or take 10 lbs, at approx 6.5%bf

So how far off am I?

rangerx83

WOW im beyond impressed...i was like 208 there, got up to 235 a month ago and am currently dieting, looking to come in 10-15lbs heavier and just as ripped (actually more) than my avatar pic.

good work bro

 

[Fener]

Because of the molecular similarity of lipoic acid and biotin, evidence shows that biotin-dependant enzymes may be lowered from chronic high dose ALA use.

Try adding about 5-10mg of biotin/day. Biotin has also been shown to imrove glucose disposal due to its ability to increase glucokinase activity.

what is biotin, where can i find it?

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Just wait till pure R-lipoic acid is available. It will likely be more effective at half the dose. Normal ALA is half S lipoic acid which is unnatural and can reduce insulin sensitivity.

BackDoc says R-type is available from Jarrow; from what I understand, most ALA on the market is S-type. Racemic mixtures of R and S (as you are referring to) also exist.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Bumping this for rangerx's imput...

Hey rangerx,

I'm thinking of stacking in 50-100mg/day of 5HTP [on second thought, may just go 5 grams L-tryptophan, which will supply a growth hormone boost -- and consequential leaning out, plus the 5HTP content of improved mood and carb control] on my next ALA burst to improve mood and cut carb cravings; also thinking of throwing in some (generic) ZMA to replace some of the chelated materials -- and possibly reduce feelings of lethargy... What do you think?

Also, can you tell me a little bit more about how you use psyllium husk (dosages) for (bad) fat meals?

 

[decadense]

BackDoc says R-type is available from Jarrow; from what I understand, most ALA on the market is S-type. Racemic mixtures of R and S (as you are referring to) also exist.

That's true. Jarrow started offering it very recently. But I didn't see it on their web page. Anyone know the prices?

The lipoic acid available everywhere is definately a 50/50 mixture of R and S (the new designations for L and D, respectively.) It is expensive to separate them. S is not good and might be harmful in high amounts from what I have read.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

S is not good and might be harmful in high amounts from what I have read.

This is interesting information, I've not heard this before -- can you elaborate? How is it bad for you? In what doses? In what durations? Also, I would love to read any research materials/abstracts you ran across this material in...

I'm sorry, I don't know the pricing on the R-type -- BackDoc seems pretty well versed on it though, drop him a PM or start a thread over on the supplement board...

 

[decadense]

Here's a couple so far:

Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle.

Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ.

Department of Physiology, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721-0093, USA.

The racemic mixture of the antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) enhances insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant humans and animals. We determined the individual effects of the pure R-(+) and S-(-) enantiomers of ALA on glucose metabolism in skeletal muscle of an animal model of insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and dyslipidemia: the obese Zucker (fa/fa) rat. Obese rats were treated intraperitoneally acutely (100 mg/kg body wt for 1 h) or chronically [10 days with 30 mg/kg of R-(+)-ALA or 50 mg/kg of S-(-)-ALA]. Glucose transport [2-deoxyglucose (2-DG) uptake], glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation were determined in the epitrochlearis muscles in the absence or presence of insulin (13.3 nM). Acutely, R-(+)-ALA increased insulin-mediated 2-DG-uptake by 64% (P < 0.05), whereas S-(-)-ALA had no significant effect. Although chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment significantly reduced plasma insulin (17%) and free fatty acids (FFA; 35%) relative to vehicle-treated obese animals, S-(-)-ALA treatment further increased insulin (15%) and had no effect on FFA. Insulin-stimulated 2-DG uptake was increased by 65% by chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment, whereas S-(-)-ALA administration resulted in only a 29% improvement. Chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment elicited a 26% increase in insulin-stimulated glycogen synthesis and a 33% enhancement of insulin-stimulated glucose oxidation. No significant increase in these parameters was observed after S-(-)-ALA treatment. Glucose transporter (GLUT-4) protein was unchanged after chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment but was reduced to 81 +/- 6% of obese control with S-(-)-ALA treatment. Therefore, chronic parenteral treatment with the antioxidant ALA enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and non-oxidative and oxidative glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant rat skeletal muscle, with the R-(+) enantiomer being much more effective than the S-(-) enantiomer.

--

Different Forms of Lipoic Acid

A new study4 examined the effects of supplementing old rats with (R)-lipoic
acid. Lipoic acid is a disulfide compound found in mitochondria which acts
as a coenzyme for the functions of pyruvate dehydrogenase and
alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase. The (R)-form of lipoic acid used in this
study is the naturally-occurring form. The paper reports that only the
(R)-form is used by alpha-keto acid dehydrogenases and reduced to the
antioxidant dihydrolipoic acid by mitochondrial lipoamide dehydrogenase.
The authors believe the evidence indicates that (R)-lipoic acid may be a
more potent supplement than the racemic mixture (which contains both (R)
and (S) forms) sold commercially as alpha-lipoic acid. For example, they
cite studies reporting that (R)-lipoic acid increased glucose uptake and
the number of glucose transporters in muscle tissue much more effectively
than (S)-lipoic acid and that the (R)-form more effectively chelated copper
and prevented copper-induced lipid peroxidation. In another study,
(R)-lipoic acid increased ATP synthesis and aortic blood flow during
reoxygenation after hypoxia in a working heart model, but (S)-lipoic acid
had no effect on ATP synthesis and only improved blood flow at ten times
the effective concentration of (R)-lipoic acid.

4. Hagen et al, "(R)-alpha-Lipoic acid-supplemented Old Rats Have
Improved Mitochondrial Function, Decreased Oxidative Damage, and
Increased Metabolic Rate," FASEB J13:411-418 (1999)

 

[decadense]

Check out this page:

http://www.r-lipoic.com/index_1.htm

From that page:


Your Two-Faced Lipoic Acid -
Why Half of Your Lipoic Acid is Working Against You?And What You Can Do About It


If you're taking a conventional lipoic acid pill, then you need to know that the health-promoting, anti-aging benefits associated with this nutrient are only being delivered by half of your supplement. The other half is worse than useless: it actually antagonizes the effects of the good half of the supplement. To put it bluntly: the lipoic acid you're taking harbors both a hero ? and an "evil twin."

Many molecules used by the body have a specific "handedness" (chirality). For example, alpha-tocopherol, or essential fatty acids. In some cases, synthetic versions of these molecules have a different "handedness" than the natural molecule. You're probably familiar with some examples of this phenomenon, such as natural d- vs. synthetic dl-alpha-tocopherolor natural cis- vs. unnatural trans-fatty acids.

Some of these artificial molecules are merely less potent than the natural forms, such as in the case of dl-alpha-tocopherol. But others are actually harmful - for example, trans-fatty acids.

Unless they specify otherwise, "lipoic acid" supplements are a 50/50 mixture of the natural R(+)-lipoic acid, and the synthetic S(-)-lipoic acid. These mixtures are called "racemates." In some cases, S(-)-lipoic acid - or the racemate - is simply less effective than R(+)-lipoic acid. But in other cases, the S(-)-form actually acts in opposition to the


Tell me more ?



Glucose Metabolism


Insulin resistance, in which the cells of the body stop responding properly to the hormone insulin, happens to some degree in almost all of us as we age.

Insulin resistance causes higher levels of insulin, blood sugar, and free fatty acids, all of which are threats to your health.

Lipoic acid has been used to support healthy blood sugar metabolism. Scientists have compared the effects of the two "lipoic acid" molecules seperately.

R(+)-lipoic acid has emerged as the active ingredient in the racemate. R(+)-lipoic acid fights all of the major effects of insulin resistance. The S(-)-form either does not help in these areas, or even makes things worse.

Tell me more ?

Antioxidant Defenses


Lipoic acid is known as a powerful and versatile antioxidant .

R(+)-lipoic acid is more easily absorbed and taken into the cells than S(-)-lipoic acid.

Both forms of lipoic acid can be made more powerful by "charging" them up into their DHLA form. R(+)-lipoic acid is "upgraded" much more rapidly than S(-)-lipoic acid.

Many studies have found that R(+)-lipoic acid provides much more effective protection than S(-)-lipoic acid or the racemate. In some cases, the S(-)-lipoic acid actually counteracts the effects of R(+)-lipoic acid.

Tell me more ?

Neurological Health


Lipoic acid is known for its ability to protect brain and nerve cells from free radicals and toxins.
Excessive levels of "transition metals" such as iron, copper, and cadmium are believed to play an important role in many neurological disorders. Having too much free iron in a key part of the brain has been implicated as a cause of Parkinson's disease, for example.
An animal study using R(+)-lipoic acid found that it was able to significantly reduce age-related buildup of iron in the brain. Other studies suggest that S(-)-lipoic acid will not work as well.

Tell me more ?

Mitochondrial Function


The biggest source of free radicals in your body are your cellular "power plants," the mitochondria. They are both the origin, and the target, of most of the free radical damage in the body.

As we age, our mitochondria become less and less efficient, generating less and less energy while creating more and more free radicals.

R(+)-lipoic acid, in animal experiments and in test-tube studies, makes mitochondria more efficient, so that they produce more energy and create fewer free radicals.

S(-)-lipoic acid does not have these effects, and may antagonize the action of R(+)-lipoic acid.

These benefits have a real impact on the organism. Animals undergoing a simulated heart attack recover heart function more rapidly when infused with R(+)-lipoic acid; S(-)-lipoic acid has no effect.

Old animals supplemented with lipoic acid look better and are more active.
S(-)-lipoic acid does not have these effects.


Tell me more ?

Fundamental Aging


Nearly all researchers into the biology of aging agree that the decay of mitochondrial function is a major engine of the aging process.

Caloric restriction, with adequate nutrition, is the only proven way to slow down the fundamental aging process in mammals.

Many of the benefits of R(+)-lipoic acid closely mimic those of caloric restriction. R(+)-lipoic acid's effects on mitochondrial function are its most striking and unique parallel with caloric restriction.

A study in a short-lived strain of mouse demonstrated that R(+)-lipoic acid can dramatically increase its lifespan. Neither S(-)-lipoic acid, nor the racemate, had any significant effect.

The National Institutes on Aging are currently funding studies to see if lipoic acid can truly slow down the aging process.

Tell me more ?


The Bottom Line


Common "lipoic acid" supplements are thus like a house at war with itself. The S(-)-form should be removed from supplements in favor of pure R(+)-lipoic acid.


What Researchers Say About the Two Lipoic Acids?


"We're finding - and others are, too - that the R(+)-form - the natural form - is much more powerful than the racemic mixture ... Hopefully ... companies are going to be producing on more of a clinical scale the R(+)-form of lipoic acid, because we're finding very significant effects using this, as opposed to the racemic mixture."

Dr. Tory Hagen, in Mitochondrial Decay in Aging.


"We have presented in this study new information indicating that this enhancement of glucose metabolism is sterospecific, with the R(+)-enantiomer being much more effective than the S(-)- enantiomer."

Dr. Ryan and colleagues, in The American Journal of Physiology.


"Lipoic acid sold in a health food store is a synthetic mixture, a racemic mixture. And R[+]- is the natural form and S[-]- is an unnatural one ... And in our hands R[+]- works and S[-]- doesn't."

Dr. Bruce Ames, in Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence.


"R[+]-LA [that is, R(+)-lipoic acid], and not a racemic mixture of R[+]-and S[-]- LA, should be considered a choice for therapeutic applications."

Dr. Lester Packer and colleagues, in Free Radical Biology and Medicine.


"The S[-]-enantiomer ? part of the racemate, which is present as about a 50% impurity, needs to be eliminated."

Dr. Guido Zimmer and colleagues, in Methods in Enzymoogy.

--

 

[decadense]

Look at the flash intro on this site:

http://www.R-Lipoic.com

Pretty funny.

 

[rangerx83]

Hey rangerx,

I'm thinking of stacking in 50-100mg/day of 5HTP on my next ALA burst to improve mood and cut carb cravings; also thinking of throwing in some (generic) ZMA to replace some of the chelated materials -- and possibly reduce feelings of lethargy... What do you think?

Also, can you tell me a little bit more about how you use psyllium husk (dosages) for (bad) fat meals?

I take 300-400mg 5HTP everyday. No problem interactions with ALA.

ZMA sounds like a good idea although a general multimineral supplement might be better and cheaper...(ZMA may not cover all the minerals lost)

I use vitamine shoppe psyllum usk capsules. I take 6-10 with a fatty meal (such as bbqd spareribs). Maybe more if I really pig out.
Care must be taken, when also using ALA. This is because ALA dissolves in oil (as well as water), and if the oil is absorbed by the psyllum husk, you will lose a substantial portion of ALA.
Just take the ALA first, eat some for a few minutes, then take the psyllum husk capsules and finish eating...

rangerx83

 

[Delinquent]

Who would of thought that this simple substance could be this powerful. Great thread guys

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Pretty funny.

Decadense,

What can I say but, damn, great info; props to you for digging it all up and posting it. I am going to have to look very closely at this topic...

Karma to you...

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I take 300-400mg 5HTP everyday. No problem interactions with ALA.

rangerx, it seems like the right thing to do on the surface; I would think that it would definitely ease the moods associated with ketosis -- which is where the orinal line of thinking was going.

But I had another thought -- one could take multigram servings of L-tryptophan before bed each night while using ala. Dosages in the range of 5+ grams/day should yield similar amounts of 5HTP (for mood control/carb cravings), but, the L-tryptophan would additionaly elevate GH levels over a sustained period as well. You'd get the ketosis of ALA, and the leaning effect of GH... Increased lethargy seems to be a potential issue, but perhaps thermogenics combined with L-tyrosine might diminish the lethargy; I definitely have to do more resarch in how to fight the lethargy... I haven't thought about it much yet.

Also, if ALA is broken down in the body via P54 or CYP3A4 enzymes (as many orally ingested substances are) then efficacy of ALA could be improved through ingestion of grapefruit extract or double-concentrated 100 percent grapefruit juices. Could get a little more bang for the buck...


ZMA sounds like a good idea although a general multimineral supplement might be better and cheaper...(ZMA may not cover all the minerals lost)

I agree, I think a mv/mm should already be in the diet; I was thinking ZMA specifically (in addition) because those substances are already greatly diminished in most athletes -- another reason for lethargy and low T levels -- that, combined with the knowledge that ALA will chelate metals, might be a good reason to suplement with ZMA during ingestion? What do you think?

I use vitamine shoppe psyllum usk capsules. I take 6-10 with a fatty meal (such as bbqd spareribs). Maybe more if I really pig out.
Care must be taken, when also using ALA. This is because ALA dissolves in oil (as well as water), and if the oil is absorbed by the psyllum husk, you will lose a substantial portion of ALA.
Just take the ALA first, eat some for a few minutes, then take the psyllum husk capsules and finish eating...

rangerx83


What is the dosage of each pill? Good info about ALA w/ psyllium.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

...

 

[Lumberg]

Has anybody found the R-lipoic acid at Jarrow or anywhere else? I can find the ALA at Jarrow but it doesn't say anything about it being racemic or just the R- enantiomer.

JC

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Has anybody found the R-lipoic acid at Jarrow or anywhere else? I can find the ALA at Jarrow but it doesn't say anything about it being racemic or just the R- enantiomer.

JC

BackDoc knows where to get it, PM him -- you might just have to call Jarrow directly...

 

[decadense]

I just called Jarrow's 800 number. This girl said they don't sell it. I asked if she was sure and she said just one moment. Then said no. So I said there have been alot of reports that they sell it but she said they did not. Don't know the deal with that.

 

[decadense]

Ok, I called this company listed on the lipoic acid site:

Advanced Orthomolecular Research
4101 ? 19 St NE
Calgary, AB
T2E 6 X 8
http://www.aor.ca
1- 800- 387 0177

They have R-lipoic acid. The woman said it was $30 for 90 150mg capsules. Unfortunately it's in canada.

 

[tyguy]

the breakdown on r- lipoic acid:

You can get it at

http://www.lalilab.com/chemicals.htm

but it runs something like $1050 a kilo... and the manager said it is very unstable. To digest it as a human you will probably not get too much of a benefit from it.


Call them and check it out... I don't really think it is worth it unless you can find it for 1/10 that price.

LATER

Ty

 

[barnidge]

Is IceMan's R+?

 

[decadense]

The racemic mixture found in stores is half R and half S. They are not chemically combined. Isolated R would be just as stable.

 

[Lumberg]

Ok, I called this company listed on the lipoic acid site:

Advanced Orthomolecular Research
4101 ? 19 St NE
Calgary, AB
T2E 6 X 8
http://www.aor.ca
1- 800- 387 0177

They have R-lipoic acid. The woman said it was $30 for 90 150mg capsules. Unfortunately it's in canada.

Ok check my math:

90 150 mg pills is 13500 mg. Equals 54 250 mg servings. At $30 it's 56 cents per 250 mg serving, or about 56/12.5 = 4.4 times the price of our friends iceman and ty. Do is the pure r-lipoic 4.4 times as effective as the racemic mixture? And is this price in Us or canadian dollars??????

These are the questions that need to be answered before we order from this company.

JC