Nervous About Bulking.

[Kabeetz]

Guys,

I was one of those fat guys (300 pounds), who used weightlifting and cardio and clean dieting to lose weight and shape his body (currently 183).

Even though it's kinda close to the summer, I am eager to start at least a moderate 10-12 week "bulking" program, starting about 3000 cals a day and going up to about 3500 maybe hitting 4000 near the end as long as my waistline stays in check.

The problem is that I am paranoid. To achieve these numbers w/ clean food sources, and not pack on a ton of fat as you all know, means eating a lot of whole foods preferably spread out in 2-3 hour increments throughout the day.

I feel like I am going to blow up and am not confident it's going to be all or even mostly lean mass.

My questions are as follows...

Am I just psyching myself out?
Can I expect decent mass gains in only 10-12 weeks or is it way too close to summer to try and add mass (going to Europe for 3 weeks August 1, so that's the target date)?
If I eat clean (lean meats, veggies, fruit, wheats, sweet potatos, unsalted nuts, protein, milk), what sort of increase in bf can I expect during this period proportionate to any fat I add?

Is it accurate that it will be easier to shred that fat in the 8 remaining weeks because of the caloric requirements of the new muscle?

Any tips for preventing excessive fat accumulation while bulking?

Big thanks.

 

[36drew]

Guys,

I was one of those fat guys (300 pounds), who used weightlifting and cardio and clean dieting to lose weight and shape his body (currently 183).

Even though it's kinda close to the summer, I am eager to start at least a moderate 10-12 week "bulking" program, starting about 3000 cals a day and going up to about 3500 maybe hitting 4000 near the end as long as my waistline stays in check.

The problem is that I am paranoid. To achieve these numbers w/ clean food sources, and not pack on a ton of fat as you all know, means eating a lot of whole foods preferably spread out in 2-3 hour increments throughout the day.

I feel like I am going to blow up and am not confident it's going to be all or even mostly lean mass.

My questions are as follows...

Am I just psyching myself out?
Can I expect decent mass gains in only 10-12 weeks or is it way too close to summer to try and add mass (going to Europe for 3 weeks August 1, so that's the target date)?
If I eat clean (lean meats, veggies, fruit, wheats, sweet potatos, unsalted nuts, protein, milk), what sort of increase in bf can I expect during this period proportionate to any fat I add?

Is it accurate that it will be easier to shred that fat in the 8 remaining weeks because of the caloric requirements of the new muscle?

Any tips for preventing excessive fat accumulation while bulking?

Big thanks.

Don't be afraid to do a few HIIT session each week while bulking. Not only will it keep fat off, but it will help keep your heart healthy.

As to wether or not you gain fat, it comes down to mostly diet. Figure out what your base metabolic rate is (BMR), aka, how many calories you can eat in a day to maintain weight, and add 500-600 calories to that. This is usually a good number for most people to add weight without getting fat.

And you are correct to say that the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

Don't be afraid to do a few HIIT session each week while bulking. Not only will it keep fat off, but it will help keep your heart healthy.
As to wether or not you gain fat, it comes down to mostly diet. Figure out what your base metabolic rate is (BMR), aka, how many calories you can eat in a day to maintain weight, and add 500-600 calories to that. This is usually a good number for most people to add weight without getting fat.
And you are correct to say that the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn.

^^ great post.

If you are more prone to adipose depositation (the usual fat areas, love handles, gut mainly)... start off slower with only a few hundred calories higher than your BMR and increase weekly until you notice fat and/or start cardio then... or kick up your training.

A lean bulk is hard to pull off but if you're dedicated and determined enough very possible. A dirty bulk would be eat everything in sight and train your ass off... hell you'll get fat, but you'll put on a shitload of muscle too, lol.

 

[Ulter]

SesaPure/Glucorell while bulking. You will dispose of unused calories and lower any excess insulin that causes fat retention.

 

[Kabeetz]

I appreciate the input guys.

Right now my bulk is looking like this.

Sat M W - Single factor 5 X 5
Sun T T - 30 minutes HIIT

I'll post a detailed caloricdescription tonight when I get home from work if possible but here is a pretty thorough description so hopefully you guys can let me know where I'm at. According to fittogether.net I am at about a 3000 BMR which includes about 1000 "lifestyle" calories.

It basically breaks down to this, assume training day:

5:20 am muscle milk w/ 8 oz water & 8 oz milk
5:30 train
7:00 am approx muscle milk w/ 8 oz water 8 oz milk, scoop of anpb and 1 serving oats and multi vitamin
8:30 am 1 egg + two whites (3), 1 serving oat meal
11:15 am 2 4 oz servings ground lean turkey, 1/2 package frozen snow peas
2:00 pm 2 servings chicken breast, 2 slices whole wheat bread, 1 light yogurt
4:45 pm 2 4oz servings groun lean turkey, 1/2 package frozen italian medley (carrots, zuchini, peas)
8:30 pm 1 muscle milk w/ water, 2 servings frozen strawberries
11:15 2 servings cottage cheese w/ sugar free jello powder
Sleep.

Cardio is done on non training days in the evening, I wake at 7 those days. It may seem sleep deprived but I simply can't/don't sleep for much longer and usually wake w/out the alarm clock (though I dare not try it on a daily basis).

I must say I feel so much stronger overall, I've been making great progress on the 5 x 5, I have just completed week 5 and am really pleased (although i miss lifting heavy more frequently...and am nervous about the lack of direct trap + shoulder + arm work, I must say the low volume approach is effective) But I am really conscious every time I put on a pair of jeans and cinch my belt that I am bloating up.

The scale reflects that I have put on about 3 pounds in less then a week, though since I am eating right before bed I don't know how accurate that is. I'll measure my bf soon and hopefully that will give me a clear description of where I'm at.

THANKS AGAIN & please feel free to provide any more input.

--

Ulter, I have been interested in trying the AF line for some time, most notably the Yohimburn to try and kill the remaining love handle deposit but I will stick with your sesapure/glucorell recommendation.

 

[mm107]

kabeetz, get over to my thread in my sig and check it out. I was always heavt just like u were. And i was SCARED SHITLESS of getting even chubby again.

Lets say, since we are "scared" of getting chubby again, BULK CLEAN! Thats all i can say, Keep the BULK clean, even though it is hard to hit that many Cals cleanly, i do it. And instead of my abs getting covered i can slightly see them day by day. Not like i would be able to on a cutting diet, but they are there so i feel better about the day.

Im going to subscribe to this thread, Ill help you through anything u might ask, Besides if i dont answer in 10 mins some other good bro/gal will chime in fast.

 

[Lifterforlife]

As a former "fatty", you will have to be more careful with your bulk to say the least. What is percieved as lbm mass gained, when dieting end up right back in the same place, due to adipose gain rather than muscle.

This from Lyle McDonald, which is basically something I have preached for a long time also, and have noticed with many clients who bulk.

Dieted individuals typically show a biology that is absolutely not geared towards anything except packing the body fat back on. Typically, the metabolic consequences of dieting include a lowered metabolism, decreased fat oxidation, decreased HSL activity, increased LPL activity impaired hormonal status (including lowered testosterone and raised cortisol), decreased thermogenesis from a reduction in both thyroid levels and nervous system output and a host of other metabolic defects. All of these serve to both slow fat loss during the diet and ensure rapid fat regain when food is reintroduced.

For example, in the classic starvation study (the Minnesota Semi-Starvation study) men were dieted for 6 solid months reaching 4-5% body fat at the end of the study. Then they were refed and body composition was tracked. By the theory being advocated, they should have gained lots of LBM and little fat during refeeding, they were clearly super lean to start out with. But this is absolutely not what happened.

As would be expected based on the metabolic adaptations to dieting, their bodies were mainly primed to replenish fat stores. Reductions in metabolic rate, fat oxidation and thermogenesis all contributed to a preferential gain of body fat and these systems didn't reset themselves until all of the body fat lost had been regained (8). Quite in fact, signals from body fat (i.e. leptin and the rest) are the mechanism behind this physiology (9).

The bottom line is that, in dieted down individuals, the body is primed to gain body fat at the expense of LBM to replenish what was lost during the diet. Again, this is fundamentally different than looking at genetically lean individuals (for whom a low body fat percentage is their normal level) in terms of what happens when they are overfed.

Not meant to be a fear monger here, but the point is you will have to be very dilligent. I would suggest doing short bulking "phases" followed by as long as needed "hardening" phases.

 

[mm107]

As a former "fatty", you will have to be more careful with your bulk to say the least. What is percieved as lbm mass gained, when dieting end up right back in the same place, due to adipose gain rather than muscle.

This from Lyle McDonald, which is basically something I have preached for a long time also, and have noticed with many clients who bulk.

Dieted individuals typically show a biology that is absolutely not geared towards anything except packing the body fat back on. Typically, the metabolic consequences of dieting include a lowered metabolism, decreased fat oxidation, decreased HSL activity, increased LPL activity impaired hormonal status (including lowered testosterone and raised cortisol), decreased thermogenesis from a reduction in both thyroid levels and nervous system output and a host of other metabolic defects. All of these serve to both slow fat loss during the diet and ensure rapid fat regain when food is reintroduced.

For example, in the classic starvation study (the Minnesota Semi-Starvation study) men were dieted for 6 solid months reaching 4-5% body fat at the end of the study. Then they were refed and body composition was tracked. By the theory being advocated, they should have gained lots of LBM and little fat during refeeding, they were clearly super lean to start out with. But this is absolutely not what happened.

As would be expected based on the metabolic adaptations to dieting, their bodies were mainly primed to replenish fat stores. Reductions in metabolic rate, fat oxidation and thermogenesis all contributed to a preferential gain of body fat and these systems didn't reset themselves until all of the body fat lost had been regained (8). Quite in fact, signals from body fat (i.e. leptin and the rest) are the mechanism behind this physiology (9).

The bottom line is that, in dieted down individuals, the body is primed to gain body fat at the expense of LBM to replenish what was lost during the diet. Again, this is fundamentally different than looking at genetically lean individuals (for whom a low body fat percentage is their normal level) in terms of what happens when they are overfed.

Not meant to be a fear monger here, but the point is you will have to be very dilligent. I would suggest doing short bulking "phases" followed by as long as needed "hardening" phases.

Damn nice post.

Def, i feel when i am "off" diet, i put fat back on quickly. Thats why my bulker is CLEAN as i possible can make it.

 

[Ulter]

Lyle is right unless you change the balance with training, drugs or supplements. Also remember these men were strictly dieting and not training like we do today. That study was done during WWII, long before any training techniques used today. Most of Lyle's theories are based around non-training subjects.

A simple thing like Sesapure/Glucorell or Levorex changes your metabolism and the way your body wants to store fat. Throwing the results of that study in the tio tio.

 

[mm107]

Lyle is right unless you change the balance with training, drugs or supplements. Also remember these men were strictly dieting and not training like we do today. That study was done during WWII, long before any training techniques used today. Most of Lyle's theories are based around non-training subjects.

A simple thing like Sesapure/Glucorell or Levorex changes your metabolism and the way your body wants to store fat. Throwing the results of that study in the tio tio.

yea, i came back to recommend the glucorell stack it seems to work well for me