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need educated opinions...nolvadex vs clomid for subtle long-term androgenic effects

I have No vested interest in his site. W/out this site I would still know jack and shit about cycling besides bros at the gym. Unleashed worked great for me and I had a very smooth pct. I'm kind of bummed it went up so much in price but its worth it.

I was a skinny kid too. 6'5 and 160 at 21. Long line of tall skinny guys. My dad was 6'4 and 164 pds at 32. What u consider eating a lot is probably not eating a lot. Check out the nutrition and workout sections on the site, don't even worry about ur test and give urself a year. By 22 u can put on 30 pds natty.



Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 
Re: need educated opinions...nolvadex vs clomid for subtle long-term androgenic effec

I never said "everyone on this board doesn't know anything." I just stated my opinion. I've seen skinny guys who were unable to gain real weight. Not for lacking of eating or work. Come on, we can't have differing opinions?
 
Re: need educated opinions...nolvadex vs clomid for subtle long-term androgenic effec

I never said "everyone on this board doesn't know anything." I just stated my opinion. I've seen skinny guys who were unable to gain real weight. Not for lacking of eating or work. Come on, we can't have differing opinions?

sure but your first post was rather condescending don't you think? a lot of us put in a lot of time into this site to share and gain knowledge and on your first post you come in and hammer away at us. really the OP's post can be interpreted 2 ways.

1. he is doing everything right and still not gaining (highly unlikely as I used to be skinny guy and used to eat as much the whole day as I eat now for breakfast)

2. he needs to work on his workouts and diet. (ironic though he posts in AAS, as this is what thousands of guys do when they cannot achieve the look they want only to find out the AAS doesn't make a difference on its own)

maybe you should just stick to your opinion of "i've seen skinny guys etc etc." instead of saying a product doesn't work and being condenscending towards peoples opinions (both of which are bending the rules of the site) and coming off in general as having zero respect for the site like we are all a bunch of newbs or something

i would review our sticky rules above, otherwise welcome to the site.. i always give guys the benefit of the doubt who are new here so hopefully you stick around and in 6 months become a productive member. my first post on the site was nothing like yours though.
 
Re: need educated opinions...nolvadex vs clomid for subtle long-term androgenic effec

It's always the people who know the least who are the most sure of themselves.

Why do they persist in offering such a strong opinion on something and always end with "I NEVER TRIED IT". Well, then how do you know? It's a worthless perspective.
 
When i found this sight i had gone from 155-165 on my own "WOW RIGHT"
I quickly learned from these guys that...#1 my diet was way off, not eating nearly enough!
#2 my training was way off,not going to put on size doing chest & arms!
I READ,I LEARN.
Put together a 4500 cal+ diet of good carbs,fats and protein.
And thats just a base i add something every day like a gallon of whole milk,mixed nuts, 10-15 whole eggs. I've found the extra cals from fat really stimulate growth. Im 2 fisting yams over here bro! Thats how i gotta be to gain weight. You gotta go way harder on diet than you do in the gym,diet is a daily struggle that takes most of my time and effort.
Finding the right training routine was easy, ZEDS (i think i got his name right) 5X5 CHALLENGE!!!!!!!
btw i weighed myself when i woke and...194!!!!! I seem to be gaining about 3lbs a week, and its all in my back, backs of my thighs,my lats,my spinal erectors,my ass,my traps,my tri's everywhere i was lacking. Now that i have that base my growth seems to be excellerating!
So when a guy tells you that you need to build a base its cuz he knows what he is talking about!
Do yourself a favor bro,put your pride on the shelf for minute and listen to these guys,believe me you will not be disappointed.
I dont know much about aas or ancillary drugs but i do no that clo & nolv are simply not going to do what you think they are.
And guess what stimulates igf-1 and testosterone the most bud.....?
Eating a ass load of clean food and lifting heavy shit!
Do some research,
LISTEN!
YOU DO NOT NEED DRUGS!!!!
im a walking example of that, i dont even take supplemental protein, i dont need it.
I wish i could post before & after pics for you bro cuz my transformation has been pretty awesome!!!
If i keep gaining like this...
By the time i cut this spring i'll be a FUCKING ANIMAL!!!
you want some of that feeling bro?
Than listen, thats all.

"skinny fat endomorphic hardgainer"
 
Re: need educated opinions...nolvadex vs clomid for subtle long-term androgenic effec

^^^ that is how its done. congrats

everyone wants to become Jay Cutler overnight, it just doesn't work like that. i think its from watching popeye as kids and thinking you eat spinach and instantly gain muscle. one of the best benefits of slowly building muscle is that you have a much better chance of keeping it long term.
 
Re: need educated opinions...nolvadex vs clomid for subtle long-term androgenic effec

OP here.

whoa. alright. you know, my questions were pretty simple and direct, and i didn't come here to have my motivations behind wanting to supplement be picked apart and invalidated. i am well aware that diet and exercise are the cornerstones of an effective regimen.

this whole attitude of "my family is skinny so i am gonna be skinny" isn't the way to do it. I was 122 pounds my junior year in high school and i was always the skinny kid growing up. so your theory means nothing unless you have the attitude of failure.

i never indicated that i have resigned to being skinny. i only mentioned my family history to lend credence to the fact that is more difficult for me to gain weight. i never indicated that it is impossible for me to gain weight; but, anybody with even a vague scientific understanding of the topic will recognize that it IS more difficult, to some extent, for me than for most because of my genetic makeup. that is undeniable.

really the OP's post can be interpreted 2 ways.

1. he is doing everything right and still not gaining (highly unlikely as I used to be skinny guy and used to eat as much the whole day as I eat now for breakfast)

i would have to agree with interpretation 1. look, there are multiple reasons why i have arrived at testosterone-boosting supplementation as a viable option for me (it has always been a last resort option, but i am exhausting all others at the moment, and they just aren't working well enough). i didn't think it necessary to expound upon those reasons in my original post because i didn't think my own motivations behind choosing supplementation would be scrutinized. but it appears now that i need to explain my special circumstances in order to put some of this bickering to rest.

the most notable of these reasons is that i had MAJOR back surgery 18 months ago to correct severe scoliosis. i have two pounds of titanium hardware embedded into and around my spine, and due to bone graft, the vertebra in a large portion of my spine have fused together. my spine is effectively one bone from between my shoulder blades all the way down to my lower lumber. so, my back doesn't bend much and i have a limited range of motion. i cannot, nor am i capable of, nor will i ever be able to do heavy lifting; these are my doctor's orders and such is my prognosis. i do attend physical therapy regularly and also see a personal trainer specially trained in working with people with back problems to do moderate strength training.

i mean if you are skinny and want to get big you need to continue to raise your cals

no, i really don't want to get big. i just don't want to have a 32" chest is all. i think the operative word in the title of this thread was "subtle." i sought help here because i figured the bodybuilding community would know what does and doesn't work with regard to supplementation.

Put together a 4500 cal+ diet of good carbs,fats and protein.
And thats just a base i add something every day like a gallon of whole milk,mixed nuts, 10-15 whole eggs.
you need alot more research...Chips & dips won't do it.

chips and dips!? why is it assumed that i have a bad diet? and again, what does this have to do with the effectiveness or nolvadex or clomid (or unleashed, for that matter)? seems to be a recurrent theme here. i am strongly gluten intolerant and have two congenital GI disorders, and i follow a modified version paleo diet that is varied and balanced and consists mostly of poultry, meat, fish, nuts, seeds, whole dairy, eggs, fruit, plenty of vegetables and occasionally legumes. it is not financially viable for me to consume 4500+ calories per day (keep in mind that i am a 21-year-old student), and i think 3000 calories suits my body's needs without being gluttonous.

so, if anybody has anything useful to say in response to what i've said here, then i would love to hear it. in the meantime, i will continue to do my own research. i have found, among other things, a plant called tongkat ali that has shown efficacy in clinical studies and looks promising.

thanks all.
 
Re: need educated opinions...nolvadex vs clomid for subtle long-term androgenic effec

way alot more ,search my posts
 
Re: need educated opinions...nolvadex vs clomid for subtle long-term androgenic effec

^^^to the OP:

I think there is a lot of mis-communication in this thread ...nolvadex and clomid aren't supplements to gain weight or boost testosterone, thats what you don't seem to understand. they are drugs. they both have their own purposes in the medical community. bodybuilders merely use them on cycle or post cycle as a tool to help them recover quicker after suppression from a steroid cycle and then the body MUST take over from there... since you are not suppressed from steroid use they will do you no good. i think this is the problem with this thread. my PM box is always open to anyone who needs to have this explained more specifically as its difficult to explain on a board.. or if you want you can PM me your phone number and I can explain this more in depth (that goes for anyone on the board) as its my job to help you on here.


sorry about your surgery, but not being able to lift is gonna be a problem for you when it comes to gaining mass.. no way around it. if you do eat a bodybuilder type diet you will be putting on a lot of dirty mass without any exercise. can you atleast do circuit training and high rep low weight? if so this is the direction you should go. once you start lifting and having lots of sex your body will start producing more testosterone.

again this is a bodybuilder website full of athletes, bodybuilders, powerlifters, gym rats, and wannabee jay cutler's so you are gonna get those types of answers that were given above..

yes as i've stated we all have different genetics, but having a high testosterone doesn't translate to automatically being built like a train and vice versa. my test levels are the same as yours but no doubt the more i have sex and the more i throw around heavy weights the more it goes up
 
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