Myth about "chunky, thick" PL's really a myth?

[SteelWeaver]

Alright, I know this is going to cause a bit of debate, but debate is always a good way to get folks thinking. So, I'd like to know if the whole thing about PL's being too thick/disproportionate for BB'ing is really a myth. Now, spatts, this doesn't apply to you - we already know you have some lovely genes flowing through your tiny waist ... I'm just asking in general. Does PL'ing result in a less "eye-pleasing" physique (from a BB'ing judge's point of view) than strict BB'ing training????

Are the cross-over PL/BB'ers the genetically lucky ones - strong AND shapely? Or are the majority of PL'ers (I'm talking WOMEN here), thick in the wrong places for BB'ing?

Please note - I'm asking this because I don't know, not just to fire a debate. I want to try WSB PL training, but I have a pretty huge waist to start with - am I going to ruin the small chance I have to be reasonably good at BB'ing by following a PL routine? How important is it for a BB'er to be that strong? We already know there isn't a direct correlation between strength and size .....

Opinions?

 

[SteelWeaver]

Hey thanks spatts - I appreciate your input. Acutally, you touched on something I was intending to ask you today anyway - about eating. You've said several times in the past few months that you've got leaner but put on more muscle since starting WSB. I'm interested in what sort of calorie levels you've been maintaining. I take it you're not actively "cutting", but not actively trying to increase mass either???? I haven't hit the "I can't take the tight pants anymore" point YET, but I swear I'm not more than a few weeks from that - I'm looking at what I should do - go onto maintenance calories and hope some of the fat goes away and I continue to gain muscle, or actively cut for a few weeks, which would suck, since I only have a few weeks left with my trainer, and I want to maximise gains with her as much as possible.

Anyway, re: the chunky look - I actually meant AFTER a cutting diet - put a BB'er and PL'er together on a BB'ing stage in contest condition, and is there a noticeable difference in the width of their waists, overall proportions and symmetry??? For some PL'ers I know there's a big diff in "density" re your recent thread, but has the focus in BB'ing moved over to a focus on pure mass and thickness? What about shape? I know with Bergmann's (and Chepiga's) win there was talk of a move back to a more "shapely" FBB shape, but then Lenda came along and blasted that out the water (almost - but then again, she has a beautiful shape ...)

Is it really possible, say one's waist DOES thicken up, to increase lats/legs proportionately? what if they won't go any bigger? I know I don't have to worry about that much right now, but am interested to know anyway.

(and interested to try some more 5x5 - been doing some if it here and there )

 

[vinylgroover]

We already know there isn't a direct correlation between strength and size .....

Opinions?

Really?

IMO, although i know little about powerlifting (spatts could clarify) structure can be a major influence in powerlifting success or not. The ideal powerlifting structure may not translate to the aesthetic flowing lines which is a big advantage in bodybuilding competitions, particularly for women.

To say that by training as a powerlifter you will develop such a physique is counter intuitive IMO, you can't change your genetic 'structure'.

At the end of the day, if you do deadlifts, free squats, rows etc, you will thicken your waist whether you do them powerlifting style or bodybuilding style..........you can chose not to do those exercises to preserve your waist size, but the cost of that will be smaller overall musculature.

 

[fitmedic]

WSB??

 

[TheProject]

WSB??

Westside Barbell, the premiere powerlifting gym in the country.

 

[The Shadow]

in general, I don't think it's a myth.....I think it is one reason why stictly bbers do not perform well in Strongman events - the waist isn't muscular enough to support the insanely heavy weight in all the overhead events....Lou Ferrigno immediately comes to mind

 

[MS]

The abs, obliques, and erectors are just like any other muscles....the heavier you repeatedly load them, the more they will respond with hypertrophy. This has nothing to do with the layer of fat you carry around your middle, and a good six pack will always look better than a soft, slim waist no matter what your goals are!!

Genetics also plays a huge factor here. If you have a long torso like spatts, you can get away with a lot more width through the midsection and still look well balanced. I have the world's shortest torso, and I am careful not to do too much that works them ultra heavy. In spite of that, I can still pull off an awesome dead lift, so I know there's some strength there too!

 

[SouthernBell]

OK! So If my main goal is not PL (not quite strong enough) I should completly stop free squats, sl dead lifts and rows? One of my main goals right now is to lose a couple of inches on my waist. I also have a sort of long torso, not quite as long as spatts by by far not a short one. I now have a 27 inch waist and I would like to go for my pre-kid size waist a 24" waist.

Should I drop the squats etc.... And if so what should I do to replace those exercises?


lovemymuscle

 

[Nonerz]

Should I drop the squats etc.... And if so what should I do to replace those exercises?


lovemymuscle

I'm no expert but from what I've learned here...I'd keep the squats!

 

[valerie]

Lovemymuscle-don't stop doing those lifts! You are not going to put on inches on your waist from doing those, the size on your waist comes from what you put in your mouth!

 

[MS]

I'd agree for the most part. If you've gained 3 inches around your waist and your abdominal skinfold hasn't changed, then this could just be a normal aging thing (increased deep or visceral fat). If, however, you've also gained some fat, then dieting or liposuction are the best ways to get rid of it. There really are not THAT many people that lift heavy enough for long enough to visibly thicken their waists!! Oh, and stay away from androgens if you're at all concerned about a widening waist!

Squats and deadlifts should be the cornerstone of any BB or PL routine.

 

[bignate73]

OK! So If my main goal is not PL (not quite strong enough) I should completly stop free squats, sl dead lifts and rows? One of my main goals right now is to lose a couple of inches on my waist. I also have a sort of long torso, not quite as long as spatts by by far not a short one. I now have a 27 inch waist and I would like to go for my pre-kid size waist a 24" waist.

Should I drop the squats etc.... And if so what should I do to replace those exercises?


lovemymuscle

what is your bodyfat at right now? is it at a satisfactory level to you? dont look to exercise first as the culprit. im not being facetious, just troubleshooting before you throw out an exercise that has such a profound metabolic effect. if you are at a low bodyfat level and feel you have too much mass around the midsection then maybe you could look at losing some muscle there but if you are thinking "throw out squats" and you lose muscle but the fat remains.....well...you lost out on the benefits of squatting and still didnt do much for your goal.

if you are lean and just thick around the waist, look to your obliques first, work aesthetically instead of numerically. if you overwork or overload your obliques, they grow which can work the illusion of width against you. back to front thickness wont show up on a thin midsection, just on a tape measure. (as spatts illustrated)

 

[SteelWeaver]

Wow, thanks for all the cool replies here! I know I'm thinking too far ahead, but I'm goal -oriented, and I don't want mid-term goals to become obstacles to long-term goals. I realise that it would take years of heavy compound lifting to increase my waist size significantly, but it's not just the waist size - I guess I mean all-over proportions/symmetry.

Is that how it normally works with BB'ers, Lobo? - strictly focus on heavy mass-building exercise for the first few years, til you've built up a decent base, then start adding in more "shaping" types of moves? (yeah, yeah, I know it is said you can't "shape" a muscle, but in terms of balance and proportion of body parts or muscle groups, I believe there is leeway)

Mmm - I've kind of lost track of what I'm asking ..... I most certainly do NOT want to give up squats, dl's etc - NO WAY! I LOVE deadlifting, only just a tiny bit more than I love squatting, even though some days I almost dread squats. But then I give the bar a friendly pat before I start and it's all ok lol

I suppose I'm just wondering if the training set-up/format/structure (periodisation) etc for WSB - which is quite different from a typical BB'ing routine, and which has as it's focus pure strength (ultimately), is appropriate for a sort of still novice BB'er, who's mainly interested in size gains and development of beautiful symmetry. This is not to say I'm not going to try it - no - I intend to do a full WSB macro as soon as I can get it all set up to go at home - it just looks like too much fun and too much of a learning challenge, to NOT try - just wondering about PL's and BB'ers and the way they look, and how much of that is genetics, and how much is the type of training ....

 

[SouthernBell]

HOORAY, I can keep the squats and deads.

lovemymuscle