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My Quest to COMPETE - BEAT THE DISEASE!

you have no idea how close I am to cashing in the chips...never ever felt this shitty, looked this bad....never been this weak....it sux bro and I have a deep feeling that I've reached my maxes at this level and at this weight....my weight not moving and I dont feel like Im getting stronger...I just think I started out way to light and now I've reached my potential for the condition I am in....
 
You're nowhere near your potential, thats clear as you were 255 a few years ago and 375 was a routine lift on the bench on a bad day. You are kind of summing things up yourself in your post, yes you need to keep gaining weight to get stronger. Ask yourself this question? How many 6'2" guys can you think of that are brutally strong and sporting appreciable muscle at 170lbs? Of course you can only go so far at this weight, you can afford a TON more on your frame.

I PMed you a post from another board from a guy who struggled with an eating disorder, he went from 230 to 155, and back to 209 to kick it, still struggles with the mental games an eating disorder can play with ya....he chronicles how he always felt like crap when he'd start eating, then he'd go back to dieting and still feel like crap.....you've just got to keep doing this thing, your body will adjust.
 
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TUESDAY October 17, 2006

Decent Chest/bi session last night, but I think I overtrained bigtime. My delt is killing me and so is my left bi. It feels as though my shoulder could give way at any moment, so I need to do no upper body wiork tonight. I also finish my am cardio with about 50 pushups for blood flow. I doubt it, but am wondering if this is starting to hamper my gains. Also, just finished Mentzer’s 3rd book,. Incredible interesting and I am sincerely thinking of trying his HIIT methods out. One problem. I know damn well I cant only go to the gym 3x a week. That was his MAX…sometimes it was once a week….and NO CARDIO……Just don’t see it happeneing unless my health becomes so bad that the docs say I’m done. I really do think I am crumbling. Not only from a mnetal standpoint but from a physical. I feel like hell. Not a dayhs goes by where I am not forcing myself to eat and my stomach feels like pins and needles. I am constantly lightheaded and my legs often times go numb. My blood circulation isn’t what it should be and I’ll bet I have high RBC.

I stayed the same in reps on bench, as no one was there to spot me. Then my brother came in and gave me a nudge with my final set of 215 for 1…..if I was dying, I highly doubt I could train like I do and be as strong (even though it is weaker than piss) than I am…someone dying would have a hard time doing a pushup…..correct?

I beat all my inclines and declines by 2 reps minimum…for example, 155 x 8 on decline was 12 last night. Went as high as 180 which I haven’t done yet.

Today is hammy and calves…..no idea how I am going to change up my workout….thinking of high rep str8 legs
 
JKurz1 said:
thanks for the reassurance....today is Thursday 10-12-2006...weighed in at 169lbs after 20 minutes of light walking on an incline and a quick 15 minute 15 rep nat. routine....it's my day off from here on out which I hate. Lowering carbs after third meal just makes me feel blah....I get in about 54g of carbs in each of my first 3 meals and nothing but fiberous veggies after.

Yesterdays delt routine was solid.....I din't do BTN, as you know me better than that. I had to beat all my lifts from the prior week by either 5lbs or 1 rep...to which I did, now my lower back and stomach are killing me. I am thinking of maybe a light leg wo tonight if it's raining or a HIIIT sprint session..........prob. dumb, so we'll play it by ear.
Click to expand...
Same exact scenerio as last Wednesday......cept I did seated BNP instead of push press....good routine....still pretty weak maxing out at 115 for a sloppy half 6 reps....weighed in at the exact same as last thursday...169+ teetering on 170....how long has this weight been now? Nothing to do this eve, thoughts about a light leg workout? Speed squats or something? Stroll on the treadmil sounds boring...Did hams on tuesday and got quads on Sunday so today would be bad for legs, would it?
 
You gotta be positive man.

You've gained weight. I don't know if ur using a trainer still. Have you increased calories accordingly with your weight gain?

When was your last day off? (You need rest to gain strength...otherwise it will taper at some point)
 
sgtslaughter said:
You gotta be positive man.

You've gained weight. I don't know if ur using a trainer still. Have you increased calories accordingly with your weight gain?

When was your last day off? (You need rest to gain strength...otherwise it will taper at some point)
Click to expand...
full day of rest was one week ago today.......but keep in mind, one day is quad only one day is ham only......you don't think Im ok to just do a modified quad routine?
 
JKurz1 said:
full day of rest was one week ago today.......but keep in mind, one day is quad only one day is ham only......you don't think Im ok to just do a modified quad routine?
Click to expand...
If you want to keeping progressing maybe it's time to train the lifts 3 day a week?

Have you tried low rep progressive training yet? It's a no brainer, at first (weeks 1-5 or so) you will feel like you can do more... but then you'll wish you had more time off :evil:

It's guaranteed you'll put up more weight bro...slowly but surely, and when you stall... tweak the rep range a bit and keep at it.
 
JKurz1 said:
can you give me a example of a quad day?

Maximum Intensity / Low Volume / Very high Frequency training
Click to expand...
Squats: Day 1 5x5 Day 2 5x5 light weight squat day top set being your 3rdish working set from day 1 Day 3 5x5 working up to a heavy triple then back off set of 8 reps

3 x week = growth when calories are abundant
 
THoughts on this?
Back today

Deads, 12,10,8,5,5,5,5,5 --> I won't max out this week, not good to do singles every week, correct??

Straight bar or tbar rows - i've done tbar the last 4 weeks, should I change? 10,8,6,6

close grip lat pull x 4

wide grip x 4

shrugs x 4

yesterday I trained and I am paying for it...stupid! It will not happen again and my trainer was livid. So am I..but it helps me to eat more when I normally would cut cals....what's worse, OT or undereating?? Double edge....

I did box squats (new) 5x5 with a 10, and a 12
I did bench 5x5
close feet leg press 10,8,6,6
leg ext x 3
and nds 5x5 abs.....good routine but I am sore.....today was usual cardio and I got back tonight...I should take today off but I wont....pussy
 
Jeff.....this is about the question from ym journal.

Yeah, I really try to focus on pushing just the top-end set.....sometimes the top 2 sets. As far as singles, I steer clear, unless I speciically push them for a few weeks. Singles on the deadlift especially blow my CNS out......I didn't have a problem with you doing them initially, as you were noplace near your potential. You once weighed 255 with a 500+ dead, so I didn't think initially pushing very aggressively would be an issue.

You've made some progress, so maybe now focus on pushing the top-end set or the last 2 sets even, and bag the singles for a bit. Shoot to add 5lbs a week to the top set on upper body presses and 5-10 on squats and DLs and see how that works out for you.
 
Oh yeah....in case you don't recheck my journal....I like Mount this weekend. B-W can ball, but they aren't in the same class as MU.
 
so I went 220x5, 240x5, 250x5 and 260x5 last week with a dire strugle at 315x1.....today I should do what 225x5, 235x5, 245x5, 255x5 then 265x5 instead of 320, correct? Skip the 10 and 8?
 
Yeah, that would be how I would do it if I were you. You should be able to keep building that top set of 5 for quite a while.
 
The general recommendation in the Bill Starr / Madcow 5x5 is to knock off 10-15% of the top set for each prior set. Once you build up some decent conditioning, though, you can handle a flatter ramp, starting closer to your top set. It's entirely down to what you can handle and what you need to stimulate your muscles.

If you go for the steeper ramp that you describe then you'll have more energy left for the top set. When you're on gear or simply better conditioned, you recover much faster in the gym and are less affected by earlier sets and can thus work harder during the overall workout.
 
Thanks....do either one of you (Tone?) think you could draw me up or paste a routine that incorporates powermovements and some aux. too? Only problem is, I'd love it to be 6 days a week....I think I can recover, if not I'll adjust. I'd say 4-5 days and incorporate HIIT sprint or cardio, but thats the last thing I need right now......If I did do a 5 day, maybe I'd carb cycle taking in 2 high, 2 medium and 2 low days with one refeed.....
 
Jeff, this is just something off the top of my head...if it is something you like, feel free to tweak it.....this would have you in the gym 6 days/week.

Monday

Flat Bench
Incline Dumbells
Dips
Skull Crushers

Tuesday

Back Squat
Deadlift
Leg Curls


Wednesday

OFF

Thursday

Front Squat
Lunges
Barbell Rows


Friday

Push Press
Close-Grip Bench
Flat Dumbell Bench
Triceps Pushdowns

Saturday

Back Squat
Chins
Shrugs


Sunday

Biceps and Abs...whatever you like to do for them
 
BiggT said:
Jeff, this is just something off the top of my head...if it is something you like, feel free to tweak it.....this would have you in the gym 6 days/week.

Monday

Flat Bench
Incline Dumbells
Dips
Skull Crushers

Tuesday

Back Squat
Deadlift
Leg Curls


Wednesday

OFF

Thursday

Front Squat
Lunges
Barbell Rows


Friday

Push Press
Close-Grip Bench
Flat Dumbell Bench
Triceps Pushdowns

Saturday

Back Squat
Chins
Shrugs


Sunday

Biceps and Abs...whatever you like to do for them
Click to expand...
i love it.....what kinda set rep scheme for each??
 
For sets/reps, the most important thing is to hold them constant while gradually upping the poundages you handle....here is just an idea

Monday

Flat Bench ( 4x7, add weight each set)
Incline Dumbells ( 4x12)
Dips (3 sets, once you get 3x15 with bodyweight, add some weight to knock reps down to 8-ish)
Skullcrushers (4x10)

Tuesday

Back Squat (5x5, add weight each set, then 1 backoff set of 8-12)
Deadlift (5x5, add weight each set)
Leg Curls (4x10)

Wednesday

OFF

Thursday

Front Squat (4x8, add weight each set)

Lunges (3x8, add weight each set)

Barbell Rows (5x5, add weight each set, then 1x8-12 as a backoff)

Friday

Push Press (5x5, add weight each set)

Close-grip bench (4x8, add weight each set)

Flat Dumbell bench (3x12-15)

Triceps Pushdowns (3x8-12)

Saturday

Back Squat (5-5-5-5-3 (add weight each set, do the triple with 5lbs more than Tuesday's top set of 5, use this weight for Tuesday's top set of 5 the following week)....then 1 backoff set of 8-12.

Chins ( 3 sets to failure, add 1 total rep each week, when you get all 3x12, add some weight to knock the reps down to 8-ish)

Shrugs (3 sets of 12....I prefer jump shrugs, but if you're not comfy with them, regular shrugs will be fine)

Sunday

Biceps and abs....however you want to do 'em.
 
lol 225 245 255 265 thennnnnn 275 x 5 hell yaaaaaa member sept 22 when I was sweatn 275x1? pge back a few problm I'd rt now I can't move I gotta get a prebed meal in but I feel so fattt sux my bdyweight has been 168 to 171 for 3 wks 10th wk of test mtbe the dose is still barely gettn me to norml......fuck
 
I dont think that routine is physcially possible bro.....sqautin that heavy three times a week....? My trainer says the same. My legs are shot for a good 4 days post squating...he also said you are either gonna start the 5x5 to ridiculously light, or simply not be able to progress.....
 
JKurz1 said:
My legs are shot for a good 4 days post squating..
Click to expand...
Mine used to be shot for 4+ days too when squating once a week... or once a month (lol).

It's called conditioning. The body adapts. You're legs will NOT be sore after a couple weeks bro.

BiggT correct me if i'm wrong but the front squat day Thursday would be a light day... 2 "heavy" days...
 
JKurz1 said:
I dont think that routine is physcially possible bro.....sqautin that heavy three times a week....? My trainer says the same. My legs are shot for a good 4 days post squating...he also said you are either gonna start the 5x5 to ridiculously light, or simply not be able to progress.....
Click to expand...
I am a trainer (14 years) and I agree with your trainer as well, Your CNS simply cannot adapt to that kind of stress. one light one heavy max...I ama Dorian type training advocate as long as ones joints can take it. To much volume in most cases results in over training and regression.

Quad
 
Quadsweep said:
I am a trainer (14 years) and I agree with your trainer as well, Your CNS simply cannot adapt to that kind of stress. one light one heavy max...I ama Dorian type training advocate as long as ones joints can take it. To much volume in most cases results in over training and regression.

Quad
Click to expand...
good discussion.....that's all this is gonna be....no need for flaming (which it hasnt turned out to be, but sometimes will lead to)

Quad - how would you rearrange the above? Edit for your personal 6 day split with core movements daily....


Also, any of you bastards know how to cook crab legs and are they really sky high in sodium???
 
Jeff....frequency can work well, so can Dorian-type training. 2 totally different methods, one goal: bigger lifts. If it all adds up in the end, you do what your body seems to want to do. that was just a sample, you can rearrange it a million and one ways.....you can move front squats to Mon, and skip squats on Wed....you can back squat heavy once, and front squat later in the week, hell.....you can squat on Monday's only........

Speaking of 14 years (not starting a war here, but pointing out the other side of the coin, which is my perspective from my own experiences), I have been training with squats multiple times a week for just about 14 years (in Nov) and I haven't had problems with overtraining and regression, 80% or so of that time, I have been natural too, so it is perfectly possible to do that for all trainees. Too many people have gotten results doing this to just simply dismiss it on paper.....just as many peopke mismanaged it and screwed it up though, but that is their own fault, there is nothing inherently with the program. I hate when people dismiss it immediately, there is no, one generic model for overtraining, it is a matter of fatigue management and weight selection. If you're sore all week from squatting, it means that your body isn't conditioned to do what you made it do (meaning, you don't squat frequently enough to be conditioned to it).....does it mean anything other than that? No....you can get big and strong squatting 2, 3 ,4 times a week and you can get just as big and strong squatting once a week. When properly managed, squatting multiple times a week subjects the body to more total work/stimulus throughout the week. I am not saying it is the one and only best way, but I wish the guys and girls who only have a pure bodybuilding background would look into it more before just blowing it off.....it has worked since the dawn of time in the strength and conditioning world, again I know physique isn't the main goal, but building muscle is building muscle, and upping lifts is upping lifts.

The front squats are nowhere near as taxing as back squats, and actually feel like a relief on the posterior chain, heavy front squats are about as taxing as 75-80% back squats....you're only doing really 3-4 really taxing back squat sets a week, and if the third day is too much, you can make it 5x8 @ 80% too, just another option.
 
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Jeff, crab legs are great.....I believe there is naturally just a ton of sodium in them, not much you can do about that......just eat them up, then drink lots of water....you're not standing on a stage anytime soon, enjoy them, bro.
 
I've been training for over twenty years with varying degrees of persistence and dedicaton. I've spent time doing bodyparts once per week but by far prefer working lifts multiple times per week. It just a question of manipulating the variables of volume and intensity and throwing out the nonsense idea that sets must go to failure to be effective.

Many Oly lifters squat 6x per week wothout over-training and, at times, with am and pm sessions. Pushing hard into over-reaching is just another variable to be managed or avoided, as appropriate.

I'm currently squatting 5x to 6x per week as part of a knee-rehab and have zero possibility of it's inducing over-training since I'm working light. Regular, frequent squatting is not only good for general conditioning but also gets rid of most of the annoying delayed onset muscle soreness that 1x per week squatting pretty much guarantees.
 
JKurz1 said:
good discussion.....that's all this is gonna be....no need for flaming (which it hasnt turned out to be, but sometimes will lead to)

Quad - how would you rearrange the above? Edit for your personal 6 day split with core movements daily....


Also, any of you bastards know how to cook crab legs and are they really sky high in sodium???
Click to expand...
I have actually done a 4 day split consistantly for years. I would really need to look at all you are doing. I do disagree with some saying overtraining is not more or a possibility with multipule squat lifts per week. as far as Oly. lifters, they do maybe 20 reps per workout. Also no accentuation is put on the eccentric part of both of the Oly Lifts so muscle damage is limited. There is and has to be a finite recovery threshold regardless of conditioning. best is best not more is better. Every man has his limitations.... (Dirty Harry).

Quad
 
I don't see how overtraining is definitely going to happen squatting multiple times a week, and I don't see how anybody can say something is 'overtraining' on paper, last time I checked, there were no clear-cut, generic, one size fits all definitions for overtraining....it CERTAINLY CAN happen with multiple squat sessions a week IF they are mismanaged, and nobody on here said it wasn't a possibility....... but saying it is definitely going to occur is ridiculous......I squat 3-4 times a week, I don't overtrain, I simply don't understand the logic of making a blanket statement like squatting multiple times a week is going to be overtraining. I put it into practice, others have done it, I have SEEN others do it with success.....I've done it successfully with 100 total reps a week, I am not theorizing here, I am saying I hae done it, and done it for years......I am not saying it is the only to approach training, but I can without a doubt say how idiotic it is for anybody to say that it is 'overtraining' period, without addressing weight selection and fatigue management.
 
QS, look at it this way: when you have a legs day you might go into the gym and do, including warmups, 10 sets of squats. You'll then hit the leg press for another 5 sets. After that, to squeeze the last bit out of the legs, you might move on to do some leg-extensions. All in all, maybe 20 - 25 sets for legs of assorted exercises, maybe more, many taken to failure, depending on the individual.

In BiggT's template above, he'd have JK doing 14 sets split through the week, likely none of which would go to failure at this stage.

It's not sound to make the statement that 3x per week will lead to overtraining. Before we dismiss the Oly lifters who, as you say, on most of their lifts perform only the concentric part of their workout. This doesn't apply to their squatting on which they have to go down and then come back up just like anyone else.

I'm not suggesting that 1x per week will not work well for any trainee if it's performed with progression as a goal but many, many studies on athletes have shown that 2x or 3x is better than 1x per week. It certainly leads to better conditioning and, as I mentioned previously, reduces needless muscle aches.

At it's simplest, imagine the squatting he'd do in one workout spread over three workouts. How can anyone suggest that this is more likely to lead to overtraining than performing all of the work in one workout? Almost any long-term program is down to manipulating the variables of Intensity (%-age of 1RM), Volume (sets / reps per workout) and frequency (how often one works a lift). By manipulating these variables, stress and any tendency to overtrain can be controlled.

With dual-factor training, for the more advanced trainee, the variables are set to head for overtraining deliberately. As it approaches, and the trainee gets into over-reaching and starts to feel his performance fall, the variables are reduced and modified to permit recovery and ongoing gains before cycling again in a wave-like manner. There are many variations.

For anyone interested in learning more, I can recommend spending some time at Madcow's Geocities site

Athletes have been using these principles for decades. They were the principles that lead the Soviets to dominate the lifting stage and allowed the US to compete on even terms again afterwards. These principles work both for muscular gains and for performance whether training naturally or on gear.
 
who the hell does 25 sets for quads??? I do 3 warms, 3 wroking sets...then 3-4 set leg press...3-4 leg ext. and maybe 2 sets hacks for quads and Im fried....
 
JKurz1 said:
who the hell does 25 sets for quads??? I do 3 warms, 3 wroking sets...then 3-4 set leg press...3-4 leg ext. and maybe 2 sets hacks for quads and Im fried....
Click to expand...

I usually do about 20-25 sets for legs on my leg days easily.
 
mikefear said:
same here.. 5 sets of squats.. same with leg presses, quad extensions, hammy girls, hack squats..
Click to expand...
5 sets squats 4 sets leg press 4 set hack squats 4 set leg curls, calfs .. crampin like crazy atm
 
Good interview. I like the way he almost apologises for pausing at the bottom of his squat, as though it were somehow a cheat technique. :)
 
silver_shadow said:
about squatting 3x per week, take a look at this interview with leonid taranenko (former gold medallist)... i had posted this a while back on the training board - notice the frequency with which this guy trains:
http://www.dynamic-eleiko.com/sportivny/library/news/nv005.html
Click to expand...
its great but it sounds like everyone who has posted thus far has one main objective - STRENGTH...although in most cases strength = mass, sometime it doesn;t. I am interested in building a bbrs physique, increasing strength and increasing lean mass.....therefore, reps in the 6-8 range just appear more benefitial to me or am I completeing missing the boat? I trainined quads and calves yesterday....here was my routine


MONDAY OCT 23, 2006 - CARDIO AT 2.9-3.0 (20 MINUTES) ONE SPRINT AT END (I am slowly finding myself increasing the spped, i USED TO BE AT 2.8) NOT GOOD!
weight is right above 168....how long has this been now? tomorrow am I will be 170-171.....

FRONT SQUATS TO BENCH (TOUCH AND EXPLODE) 12,10,8,8,6,4,3
BARBELL LUNGES 3 SETS OF 10
LEG PRESS FEET CLOSE 10,10,8,8
LEG EXTENT 12,10,10,8,8
THEN 6 SETS OF CALVES SS WITH LEG PRESS NATUALIS 15,12,19 FEET CLOSE

TODAY I GOT CHEST THINKING OF INCORPORATING BIGT'S RECCOMENDATION:
Monday
(MINOR REVISION - DELT IS GIVING ME A LITTLE PROBLEM)
INCLINE BARBELL Bench ( 4x7, add weight each set)
FLAT Dumbells ( 4x12)
Dips OR DBELL FLYS (3 sets, once you get 3x15 with bodyweight, add some weight to knock reps down to 8-ish)
Skullcrushers (4x10)
TRAINGLE CABLE X 3
FRENCH PRESS X 3

THOUGHTS?
 
in the words of Ronnie Coleman: "Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, but no one wants to like no heavy ass weights!"

strength = mass, you said it :)
 
sgtslaughter said:
in the words of Ronnie Coleman: "Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, but no one wants to like no heavy ass weights!"

strength = mass, you said it :)
Click to expand...
I agree and you know damn well i AM NOT LOOKING FOR THE EASY WQY OUT...JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE MY ROUTINE IS UP TO SNUFF FOR MY GOALS...
 
JKurz1 said:
I agree and you know damn well i AM NOT LOOKING FOR THE EASY WQY OUT...JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE MY ROUTINE IS UP TO SNUFF FOR MY GOALS...
Click to expand...
I understand broski. When you plateau and it's time for a change, you know what to do :)
 
TODAY I GOT CHEST THINKING OF INCORPORATING BIGT'S RECCOMENDATION:
Monday
(MINOR REVISION - DELT IS GIVING ME A LITTLE PROBLEM)
INCLINE BARBELL Bench ( 4x7, add weight each set)
FLAT Dumbells ( 4x12)
Dips OR DBELL FLYS (3 sets, once you get 3x15 with bodyweight, add some weight to knock reps down to 8-ish)
Skullcrushers (4x10)
TRAINGLE CABLE X 3
FRENCH PRESS X 3

THOUGHTS?
 
why do you say that about decline? i have heard some guys say it's not as effective in the past. but i've also had some good experiences with it... i've also seen tweakle use it effectively.
 
dude you are beyond shredded. Worry about putting on size and eating I assure you, once you are done you will look NUTS!!
 
its a mind game...that was completed depleted, first thing in the am after cardio on saturday when my cals are not what they should be.....come tonight if I took that exact pic, I'd look like I never touched a weight or did a crunch in my life.
 
Also, I do appecited the comments but STOP....I need to hear that I am fading that my bulking needs to progress and i'll be able to get back to where I was and BETTER..hearing you look good does me NO JUSTICE because then I think about everyh morsel and cut cals....see how this mind works???
 
JKurz1 said:
Also, I do appecited the comments but STOP....I need to hear that I am fading that my bulking needs to progress and i'll be able to get back to where I was and BETTER..hearing you look good does me NO JUSTICE because then I think about everyh morsel and cut cals....see how this mind works???
Click to expand...
I agree... you're NOT supposed to look that friggin' lean on a bulk, even if it's clean...that's WAAAAY lean.

Bro, in the a.m. depleted or not, i've never been THAT lean. You need to keep eating brother.
 
Jeff, you're DICED...you look like a human anatomy chart, and you've got some good development.....you really would look unreal with more muscle..... feed your body what it needs, man.....

The workout looks good, if you go with dips, I'd cut out one triceps movement....actually, aren't skulls and French presses the same thing??
 
BiggT said:
Jeff, you're DICED...you look like a human anatomy chart, and you've got some good development.....you really would look unreal with more muscle..... feed your body what it needs, man.....

The workout looks good, if you go with dips, I'd cut out one triceps movement....actually, aren't skulls and French presses the same thing??
Click to expand...

ya they are the same
 
The only thing that helps skinny guys like us is food, food and more food. Youre metabolism is going to be enough to keep you lean as fuck. You look great as is, and I'd kill to have a body like that. I'd immediately try to go into modeling heh. But you want to get bigger, so you gotta eat like a big man. :coffee:
 
French press is done with your torso vertical. I think they're still called French press regardless of whether you're seated or standing. I usually called them BB triceps extensions.

Skulls are always done on your back with the risk of crushing your skull.

You knacker your elbows in either variation but, I think, more so with the skullcrushers.

French Press Image
 
blut wump said:
QS, look at it this way: when you have a legs day you might go into the gym and do, including warmups, 10 sets of squats. You'll then hit the leg press for another 5 sets. After that, to squeeze the last bit out of the legs, you might move on to do some leg-extensions. All in all, maybe 20 - 25 sets for legs of assorted exercises, maybe more, many taken to failure, depending on the individual.

In BiggT's template above, he'd have JK doing 14 sets split through the week, likely none of which would go to failure at this stage.

It's not sound to make the statement that 3x per week will lead to overtraining. Before we dismiss the Oly lifters who, as you say, on most of their lifts perform only the concentric part of their workout. This doesn't apply to their squatting on which they have to go down and then come back up just like anyone else.

I'm not suggesting that 1x per week will not work well for any trainee if it's performed with progression as a goal but many, many studies on athletes have shown that 2x or 3x is better than 1x per week. It certainly leads to better conditioning and, as I mentioned previously, reduces needless muscle aches.

At it's simplest, imagine the squatting he'd do in one workout spread over three workouts. How can anyone suggest that this is more likely to lead to overtraining than performing all of the work in one workout? Almost any long-term program is down to manipulating the variables of Intensity (%-age of 1RM), Volume (sets / reps per workout) and frequency (how often one works a lift). By manipulating these variables, stress and any tendency to overtrain can be controlled.

With dual-factor training, for the more advanced trainee, the variables are set to head for overtraining deliberately. As it approaches, and the trainee gets into over-reaching and starts to feel his performance fall, the variables are reduced and modified to permit recovery and ongoing gains before cycling again in a wave-like manner. There are many variations.

For anyone interested in learning more, I can recommend spending some time at Madcow's Geocities site

Athletes have been using these principles for decades. They were the principles that lead the Soviets to dominate the lifting stage and allowed the US to compete on even terms again afterwards. These principles work both for muscular gains and for performance whether training naturally or on gear.
Click to expand...
I suppose the reason I do not like this kind of traininga nd in my mind why to me it would eventually lead to overtraining is because of how I train every time I train...all out. For BB purposes this si just a better way to go and I think that can bbe seen in the fact that most all BB train in this manner. I know there are many ways to skin a cat and not all on this board are going for size shape and definition. The style of training I see being discussed here is Olympic based type periodization. To be honest I do not have time to train more than 4 times a week anyway. I was not slamming on anyone here so everyone knows. I am just saying by and large what works best for myself and my clients given life's constraints. I have never claimed to have eaten all the brains. (Fonz did already)

Quadsweep
 
I followed the Big Man's chest and tri routine with a little more volume....not sure what to hit today...I'll update in a few.....hammys and back squats?
 
Well it's Tuesday and I am struggling.....found myself eating 3/4ths of my breakfast because I look flat and smooth. I am 171 today and weird cause Sunday, the picture day, I was 165. My cals must be a ton higher during the week. I'm fading back to my old self, feeling very bloated and hating it, although I did have a good session yesterday for me.

INCLINE BENCH 4X7 - ALL PRS
FLAT DBELL - FINISHED WITH 80'S FOR 6 WHEN I COULD GET 5 WITHOUT A SPOT A FEW WEEKS AGO AS MY FIRST EXERCISE
DECLINE BENCH X3
INCLINE FLY X 2

SKULLS, FRENCH AND TRIANGLE ALL FOR 3 SETS OF 8-10

LITTLE HELP FOR TODAY?

BACK SQUATS (BOX?) 5X5
STR8 DEADS 5 X 8-10
LEG CURL X 4
FROG LEG PRESS X 3

GOOD AMS OR HYPERS?
MAYBE ROWS 5X5?
 
JK, I expect that this isn't going to be a well-received post but when I saw your recent pictures, my first thought was "That poor guy. I see now what he's been going through". I think your look is one of under-nourishment. I think your look is one of poor health and that you need more substance to your body.

I know it's been said many times through the thread but eat, eat, eat.
 
JKurz1 said:
yesterday
Click to expand...

Dude, that is fucking sick. Eat, get PROFESSIONAL help, and eat. Best of luck to you. I know we are all pulling for you. However, that is just wrong.
 
JKurz1 said:
Well it's Tuesday and I am struggling.....found myself eating 3/4ths of my breakfast because I look flat and smooth. I am 171 today and weird cause Sunday, the picture day, I was 165. My cals must be a ton higher during the week. I'm fading back to my old self, feeling very bloated and hating it, although I did have a good session yesterday for me.

INCLINE BENCH 4X7 - ALL PRS
FLAT DBELL - FINISHED WITH 80'S FOR 6 WHEN I COULD GET 5 WITHOUT A SPOT A FEW WEEKS AGO AS MY FIRST EXERCISE
DECLINE BENCH X3
INCLINE FLY X 2

SKULLS, FRENCH AND TRIANGLE ALL FOR 3 SETS OF 8-10

LITTLE HELP FOR TODAY?

BACK SQUATS (BOX?) 5X5
STR8 DEADS 5 X 8-10
LEG CURL X 4
FROG LEG PRESS X 3

GOOD AMS OR HYPERS?
MAYBE ROWS 5X5?
Click to expand...

What are the details on the workout, Jeff?

Thats a solid template you have for today. I wouldn't box squat though, just plain old suts and rebuild that ATF squat. If you do str8 leg deads, don't do GMs too, one or the other is perfect. You can certainly row today, but just think what you have planned for tomorrow and make sure it doesn't interfere.

Still, 171 isn't 150, you're up a solid 20lbs....keep eating, it is time to kiss the 170's good-bye forever, no reason for a 6-2 guy to weigh 170-anything.
 
jk, in looking at the pics i think you need help that you cant get here. sure you can get lifting and eating advice, but what you need is someone to help you break thru this mental barrier you have placed on yourself. i'm not gonna tell you what you already know about how you look, what I will say though is, please seek professional medical help. i've been following you for quite sometime now and you have made progress, you just need someone that knows how to help you see past yourself in the mirror day after day. please dont take this as a flame in anyway. i am truely concerned for you and can certainly see why your friends and family are as well. i think you are very close but just need something you can't get here.

good luck and i'll keep reading.
 
Push Press And Delts Tomorrow, Deads On Friday

Today
Back Squats 5x5
Str8 Deads 5 X 8-10
Leg Curl X 4
Frog Leg Press X 3
Str8 Rows 5x5
Hyperext X3 X20 - No Weight
 
gettinripped said:
jk, in looking at the pics i think you need help that you cant get here. sure you can get lifting and eating advice, but what you need is someone to help you break thru this mental barrier you have placed on yourself. i'm not gonna tell you what you already know about how you look, what I will say though is, please seek professional medical help. i've been following you for quite sometime now and you have made progress, you just need someone that knows how to help you see past yourself in the mirror day after day. please dont take this as a flame in anyway. i am truely concerned for you and can certainly see why your friends and family are as well. i think you are very close but just need something you can't get here.

good luck and i'll keep reading.
Click to expand...
THNX.........I might be ok.......and maybe not......I have been eating non stop for 10 weeks+ now and up 20lbs....still in deep pain daily...stomach, back, cold extremeties....I am either overtrained or have a medical condition that is killing me....can't be underfed......although this week has been slacked....I'm finding myself throwing away food like I did in the very early stages...all becauseI look in the mirro at abs only...
 
JKurz1 said:
THNX.........I might be ok.......and maybe not......I have been eating non stop for 10 weeks+ now and up 20lbs....still in deep pain daily...stomach, back, cold extremeties....I am either overtrained or have a medical condition that is killing me....can't be underfed......although this week has been slacked....I'm finding myself throwing away food like I did in the very early stages...all becauseI look in the mirro at abs only...
Click to expand...
draw some fake abs on there bro, anyone can drop it, just gaining it is hard for most.. including me
 
JKurz1 said:
THNX.........I might be ok.......and maybe not......I have been eating non stop for 10 weeks+ now and up 20lbs....still in deep pain daily...stomach, back, cold extremeties....I am either overtrained or have a medical condition that is killing me....can't be underfed......although this week has been slacked....I'm finding myself throwing away food like I did in the very early stages...all becauseI look in the mirro at abs only...
Click to expand...


Dude, your underfed. Your talking about refeed days during a bulk. Every day should be a refeed day. IMO, your just overthinking things. I truly wish you would get real help, as I think that's the only way you will ever fully "recover". Looks like lots of guys are on here to help you, but you need to help yourself as well.

My advice is just quit worrying about sets/reps/time under tension/total load/macro's consumed/etc..........

Just whatever you want and lots of it all the time, and lift heavy on compound movements till you fail. Best of luck.

Monopoly
 
worry about packing on mass, then worry about getting your abs back if they do indeed dissapear which I highly doubt if you eat clean.
 
You can eat as clean as you want (which I do) but extra cals are going to be stored it's simple math trust me. You have a base rate, then you increase, if you do not epend more than you take in, be it from leaf lettuce or tripple cheese burgers, it will be stored.
 
JKurz1 said:
You can eat as clean as you want (which I do) but extra cals are going to be stored it's simple math trust me. You have a base rate, then you increase, if you do not epend more than you take in, be it from leaf lettuce or tripple cheese burgers, it will be stored.
Click to expand...

Amen, brother.....Calories are calories are calories. No way around the laws of thermogenics. Bulking clean is a better health choice and kinder to the lipid profile, but 'calories in vs calories out' still applies.
 
JKurz1 said:
how come i can't link an exel worksheet?
Click to expand...
if it's just to show... take a screen shot of what you want to show - crop it & post it.

to link the spread sheet you need to use a file hosting site...not picture hosting site.
 
C:\Documents and Settings\jmkurzwe\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.MSO\ExcelWebPagePreview\Routine.htm
 
JKurz1 said:
C:\Documents and Settings\jmkurzwe\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.MSO\ExcelWebPagePreview\Routine.htm
Click to expand...
that's the location on your harddrive :nerd:

copy and paste the cells from the worksheet... it'll paste funny and maybe mis aligned but make it look decent before you post it and it might be decipherable.
 
thnx bigt, it won't work to post.....Quad...will u give me a sample of your routine? I for some reason, just am not getting the feel I like from 5x5.....I did 5x5 rows, squats yesterday....str8 deads 12,10,8,8,6 some leg press and some extentions and just didnt feel like I trained....although, dont get me wrong, when I was doing them I was feeling it and my lifts increased, by just dont get the pump I thrive for....I know, pump means jack, but for me, I like to know I trained hard and heavy..........
 
JKurz1 said:
when I was doing them I was feeling it and my lifts increased, by just dont get the pump I thrive for....I know, pump means jack
Click to expand...
after 3-5 weeks you won't care about no stinkin' pump :evil:

Because you'll be swole all day long from putting on some more meat... you'll probably look like you used to when you used to get pumped up... it'll just be that way all day from new mass :)
 
Push Press (5x5, add weight each set)

Close-grip bench (4x8, add weight each set)

Flat Dumbell bench (3x12-15)

Triceps Pushdowns (3x8-12)

this is what Bigt gave me for today.....Ill knock this out and do some fluff lifts after, but I want want to make sure it's consuive to building quality lean mass...the 5x5 on push press worries me, should I go more of a 10,8,8,6,6, aprroach?
 
Jeff, that plus some fluff at the end (lat raises, whatever you like) will be good in my opinion. 5's have proven to be good for hypertrophy for most people, again it is about the progression more so than the 'reps'....I always felt anything non-neural (above max 3's and anything below 10's is a good hypertrophy range to progress with)....I can't say 5's are better than 8's or 6's are better than 9's, ya know? I would say 5x5 or 4x8 or 4x7 would all be good.....just go with whatever makes you comfy and progress with it consistently.
 
JKurz1 said:
THNX.........I might be ok.......and maybe not......I have been eating non stop for 10 weeks+ now and up 20lbs....still in deep pain daily...stomach, back, cold extremeties....I am either overtrained or have a medical condition that is killing me....can't be underfed......although this week has been slacked....I'm finding myself throwing away food like I did in the very early stages...all becauseI look in the mirro at abs only...
Click to expand...
Your symtoms could be psychosamatic (SP?) My suggestion is as it is to my clients who are competing. stay covered up and do not look at yourself everyday and do not weigh yourself but once a week. We are all dysmorphic to a point.

Quad
 
Quadsweep said:
Your symtoms could be psychosamatic (SP?) My suggestion is as it is to my clients who are competing. stay covered up and do not look at yourself everyday and do not weigh yourself but once a week. We are all dysmorphic to a point.

Quad
Click to expand...
ok..thnx....now what are the chances of me seeing a sample of your ROUTINE?
 
Crush Delts last night and did some light tris....standing o press......12,10 warms.....5 sets of 5 finishing with 115x3 for last two sets...PR for me....I remember ahving just 10's on there a few mnths back and barely getting 8....I put on 85lbs for my final back off set and got easily 12...I only go to chin level and I am truyly sore as hell. pec tie in is incredibly sore and shlders hurt so bad that it's giving me a little pain in my neck. Rest today for a good 8 hrs.......

then I did 4 sets dbell press, 10,10,8,8 finishing with 65's for a good 6......
lat raise one arm....40x8 last set.........

rear delt dbell x 3 ss with machine rear delts....40-45lbs for 10

then some decline bench, skull, and rope cables to crank off the tris.....today should be an off day but I feel ok, might do my rotuine from last week on thursday to get a good stretc pump up for deads either tomorrow or sat.

Big t - suggestions for today?

bench squat 5x5
feet tgether leg press 4 sets 8-10
light light bench 4 sets 12
traps? uprights? smith reverse shrug? you tell me.....
 
Jeff, I'd squat 5x5. Were you doing okay with ATF quats? I'd keep moving with them if they were okay. Bench squats (where you stop when your ass hits a flat utility bench) are fine for the wide-stance PL-type squat, but I still think ATF is better on the knees for a closer stance squat, which is what you'd want to do as it recruits more muscles. After the 5x5 on squats, 4x8-10 leg press is good. I'd stay away from the bench after yesterday (unless you just want to grab the 45lb bar and get some blood moving or something)......For traps?? It depends on when you plan to deadlift next.
 
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