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Debaser
Guest
muscledog95 said:
I meant 2 years from when I started training, which will be right around the beginning of summer. I've said my stats so many times.
I meant 2 years from when I started training, which will be right around the beginning of summer. I've said my stats so many times.
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Debaser
Guest
Cuthbert said:
Because we have scientific and biomechanical data on the subject. The upper pecs experience no more tension on an incline press than a flat bench press, according to EMT results as well as from a pure biomechanical standpoint. If you want some real-world examples, there are still many people with thick upper chests that never do inclines. And in case everyone was wondering, this is the upper (clavicular) area:
c3bodybuilding
New member
Hmm why would musclemag companies want to spread around all that false shit?>>>>
To keep you buying the magazines. There's only so much that can be written about working out. They have to come up with more and more claims to keep people in an endless cycle.
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As for the myths that has no just become a debate, I too have to go with real world over books. Debaser you remind me of Mike Mentzer in many ways. Mike was a great guy, and smart man, but he could never look at things from more than one way. I think you need to be more open to others ideas. It's great to learn the science behind it all, and try your best to apply it to yourself, but at the same time, you can't ignore 50 years of experience.
Besides, a lot of the current science is just starting to catch up with some of the things that many thought were bs or myths. Whole body workouts three times a week. People laughed at those and said they were for newbies. Now HST brought it back and it's all the rage. Reg Park was doing that in the 50's. HST also talks about Am Pm training. Didn't Arnold call that the double split? My point is, if some guy with 20, 10 or even 5 years of hard work and experience tells me something, I'll listen, and not just shrug it off because some book says it's wrong or a myth. Who knows, in 20 years, science might finally catch up and say it was right....
ps. Arnold NEVER ditched dips from his workout. He kept his pec routine the same from the time he came to America until the day he retired. The only thing he ever changed around 72 was supersetting back with chest. This is from his The Education of the Bodybuilder (in his own words) and many interviews I've read.
To keep you buying the magazines. There's only so much that can be written about working out. They have to come up with more and more claims to keep people in an endless cycle.
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As for the myths that has no just become a debate, I too have to go with real world over books. Debaser you remind me of Mike Mentzer in many ways. Mike was a great guy, and smart man, but he could never look at things from more than one way. I think you need to be more open to others ideas. It's great to learn the science behind it all, and try your best to apply it to yourself, but at the same time, you can't ignore 50 years of experience.
Besides, a lot of the current science is just starting to catch up with some of the things that many thought were bs or myths. Whole body workouts three times a week. People laughed at those and said they were for newbies. Now HST brought it back and it's all the rage. Reg Park was doing that in the 50's. HST also talks about Am Pm training. Didn't Arnold call that the double split? My point is, if some guy with 20, 10 or even 5 years of hard work and experience tells me something, I'll listen, and not just shrug it off because some book says it's wrong or a myth. Who knows, in 20 years, science might finally catch up and say it was right....
ps. Arnold NEVER ditched dips from his workout. He kept his pec routine the same from the time he came to America until the day he retired. The only thing he ever changed around 72 was supersetting back with chest. This is from his The Education of the Bodybuilder (in his own words) and many interviews I've read.
Like most of the other people on this post, i believe that inclines are better for chest (my chest at least).
Why is it that everyone always thinks they have "THE EXERCISE" to do that everyone NEEDS to do. Learn your body first, if flat bench is working well, then keep fucking doing it!! If inclines are working better for you, then keep doing fucking inclines!! I know people that grow off of getting out of bed in the morning, people who grow off never doing a freeweight bench press movement, and people who incline their balls off to make their chest grow.
Find something that works for you, learn your body. All i do now is inclines and weighed dips for chest, with the occaisonal hammer strength press. Since starting this, my chest has responded better than when i did flat benches. On the other hand, one of my best friends NEVER inclines and grows. SO STICK WITH WHAT IS WORKING FOR YOU END OF DISCUSSION!!
Why is it that everyone always thinks they have "THE EXERCISE" to do that everyone NEEDS to do. Learn your body first, if flat bench is working well, then keep fucking doing it!! If inclines are working better for you, then keep doing fucking inclines!! I know people that grow off of getting out of bed in the morning, people who grow off never doing a freeweight bench press movement, and people who incline their balls off to make their chest grow.
Find something that works for you, learn your body. All i do now is inclines and weighed dips for chest, with the occaisonal hammer strength press. Since starting this, my chest has responded better than when i did flat benches. On the other hand, one of my best friends NEVER inclines and grows. SO STICK WITH WHAT IS WORKING FOR YOU END OF DISCUSSION!!
Arnold'sApprentice said:
that is EXACTLY debaser's point.Well done bro..you just learned something
no......... you missed my point. here is what i meant again.
if scott mendalson has a huge upper chest and bench presses 700lbs on the flat bench, then all bodybuilders, should just skip trying to do inclines and only work towards getting a 700lb bench press........... which can take only about 20 years..............
or, you could do some inclines now and watch your upper chest grow too......
hmmmm.......... tough choice.
do incline's now to bring up my upper chest, or workout on flat bench for 20 years to get a 700lb bench, and then will have big upper pecs.
talk about a no brainer for a bodybuilder.
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slobberknocker
Guest
Plus I think Mendy used to be a bodybuilder. So who knows, maybe he used to do inclines and flies and all that jazz, lol.
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Debaser
Guest
Exodus said:
Okay, you obviously can't be reasoned with. I've presented both scientific, and real-world examples, and tried to show you that elementary biomechanics all state the same thing unequivocally. That's okay though, Musclemag is probably right.
For someone who asks for "scientific proof" all the time, you sure as hell don't act like any scientist.
Thaibox
New member
debaser...
Don't get all offended by what I say. My intent is not to attack you. I think you're an okay guy... I simply want to point something out. Take it as you may. During my first year of college I learned that the people who talk the most, and appear to have the most knowledge are rarely the ones whom actually have any true knoweldge.
Your "black and white" approach is one of shear arrogance that makes anyone arguing you disregard what you are saying. Try, for once, using the words "my opinion"......"I think that"...or...."I believe that." Try qualifying your arguments.
I disagree with so much that you say, but I don't even bother to post because you can't argue objectively, so I don't waste my time.
You have under 2 years training experience under you, and yet you continue to argue adamantly against the knowledge of professionals and veterans of this game. If you have something to share...great. However, being so green, you should learn to open your ears more than your mouth. You're making yourself look very bad like you use to.
Don't get all offended by what I say. My intent is not to attack you. I think you're an okay guy... I simply want to point something out. Take it as you may. During my first year of college I learned that the people who talk the most, and appear to have the most knowledge are rarely the ones whom actually have any true knoweldge.
This is the approach to training(or pretty much anything) that leads to a champion.b fold the truth said:
Your "black and white" approach is one of shear arrogance that makes anyone arguing you disregard what you are saying. Try, for once, using the words "my opinion"......"I think that"...or...."I believe that." Try qualifying your arguments.
I disagree with so much that you say, but I don't even bother to post because you can't argue objectively, so I don't waste my time.
You have under 2 years training experience under you, and yet you continue to argue adamantly against the knowledge of professionals and veterans of this game. If you have something to share...great. However, being so green, you should learn to open your ears more than your mouth. You're making yourself look very bad like you use to.
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Arnold'sApprentice
Guest
Everyone always wants to diss debaser about his time in the gym (2 yrs) the fact he doesn't have 22 inch bi's.
1. He is not a juicer
2.He clearly knows a hell of a lot more than 99% of the guys on this thread
3.If he is intelligent and RIGHT why the heck does he have to wait 10 yrs before speaking?
4.He is not rude or arrogant..he just makes his point in a no nonsense fashion and doesn't suffer fools gladly
5. he is flamed very badly and unfairly
6. Some of the greatest sports coaches actually look like shit (not saying debaser does)
7. You guys need to listen to what he says and maybe you will see some gains (his advice is working for me) DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!
8. Peace bros
1. He is not a juicer
2.He clearly knows a hell of a lot more than 99% of the guys on this thread
3.If he is intelligent and RIGHT why the heck does he have to wait 10 yrs before speaking?
4.He is not rude or arrogant..he just makes his point in a no nonsense fashion and doesn't suffer fools gladly
5. he is flamed very badly and unfairly
6. Some of the greatest sports coaches actually look like shit (not saying debaser does)
7. You guys need to listen to what he says and maybe you will see some gains (his advice is working for me) DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!
8. Peace bros
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slobberknocker
Guest
Arnold'sApprentice said:
You're entitled to your opinion, but I have a real problem with this. I just scrolled back through this entire thing, looking at the people that posted. Me, CCJ, Thaibox, Joker, casualbb, Exodus, bfold, Mike Rojas, C3bodybuilding, Cuthbert, etc. If you think Debaser knows more about training than those people then I just feel sorry for you.
Loudest does not imply smartest.
I was REALLY trying to avoid posting on this thread anymore but holy cow.
