My First cycle

[h3rcul3s]

Stats: 34Years. 5'6" 160lb, 15%BF, Weight training for 5 years.

My goal has been hitting the genetic limit of muscular growth.
Last year, I realized that I'm failing to hit the genetic potential in spite of training real hard and doing strict diet. Body seem to be responding better to only cutting diet such as CKD but not responding to gaining diets. Even on 4000 cal/day diet with proper macronutrient ratios, nothing except some strength gains. So approached an endocrinologist and got my test levels checked. Totla test is OK but free test is very low.
Tried natural test boosters, ZMA, 8hrs sleep....for over 3months...retested testosterone profile. This time it was worse. For both total and free.





Finally decided to go with the plan for 10+4 weeks.



Deca: Week 1-8 and
Testosterone: Week 1-10
Mesterolone 25mg EOD: Week 1-10

Keeping Letrozole and Dostinex in hand just in case if needed.



WEEK1: Sustanon 250+ Nandrolone 100mg
WEEK2: Sustanon 250+ Nandrolone 200mg
WEEK3: T.Enanthate 250mgx2 + Nandrolone 100mgx2 (MON+WED)
WEEK4: T.Enanthate 250mgx2 + Nandrolone 100mgx2 (MON+WED)
WEEK5: T.Enanthate 250mgx2 + Nandrolone 100mgx2 (MON+WED)
WEEK6: T.Enanthate 250mgx2 + Nandrolone 100mgx2 (MON+WED)
WEEK7: T.Enanthate 250mgx2 + Nandrolone 100mgx2 (MON+WED)
WEEK8: T.Enanthate 250mgx2 + Nandrolone 100mgx2 (MON+WED)
WEEK9: (SUN) T.Enanthate 200mg + Nandrolone 100mg, (WED) T.Enanthate 100mg

WEEK10: Aquaviron (Testosterone suspension) 25mg ED (SUN thru SAT)

WEEK11: PCT> WAITING WEEK

WEEK12: PCT> Nolvadex 20mgs/day+ XCel10 (Aromasin AI) + HCG 250mg(MON/THU)

WEEK13: PCT> Nolvadex 20mgs/day+ XCel10 (Aromasin AI)+ HCG 250mg(SUN/WED)
WEEK14: PCT> Nolvadex 20mgs/day+ XCel10 (Aromasin AI) 10mg/day


Wanted to know from experts on this forum:

1. Does this cycle look OK or suggest if there's a possibility to modify anything

2. The only thing that is bothering me is potential of hairloss that the Testosterone has. For 500mg/week dose for a 160lb. I read that Fena/Dutasteride on Deca worsens the MPB. What can be done to prevent it?

3. Planning to follow GVT workouts for 6-8 weeks. Which time would be ideal. In the beginning or after week 7? Please advise.



Thanks in advance.

 

[Judo Tom]

bad cycle
bad pct

do research. thats my advice. its on you for the most part.. if i lay out a better cycle and you have no idea it doesnt do you much good because what will you do next cycle, what will you do if you run into problems, etc

but deca is bad for a first cycle
deca and that pct is a bad idea as well
your not using hcg the best way
ramping up dosages is not really necessary

but thats not even the main problem

if you cant gain naturally at 160lb you will not gain much or keep much from a cycle
sorry but you need to try some different workout methods or some different diet methods

get those two things squared away then cycle

do this by starting a detailed log of everything you eat and what you do in the gym

 

[zsimpson22]

m no expert like your asking for, but IMO it's a good idea to just start with test as a first cycle so you can see how your body reacts. And also, there's a lot better options out there for pct rather than nolvadex.

 

[stevesmi]

if you are having trouble with your test levels then running deca is gonna make the problem worse.

 

[h3rcul3s]

Thanks so much for responding Tom and zsimpson.

OK I'd remove Deca from first cycle and reserve it for future. Some researchers suggested me that there's no harm adding Deca on first cycle and you'd retain gains more easily.

PCT: Would clomid be better than nolva or is there any other option? I have only these two SERMs available in my region.




Secondly,

I did some research on limit of my genetics.

weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

Based on this, I can only reach upto 180lbs with 6inch wrist and 8inch ankle.


I'm just 5'6" and when I started 5 years back, I was 140lbs. That means I could gain just 20lbs in 5 years. (in reality I gained nothing in last 3 years, in spite of all types of all veriations of intense/heavy/powerlifting/volumetraining/DC...combined with diet designed by our 20 yrs experienced bodybuilding dietitian.) The 10lb gain was in first 6months. remaining 10 lbs came in 18months. And nothing happenned in last three years.

Dear Tom, I respect your suggestion about log.
But I've been maintaining logs for every single day for every single rep and weights and every food I ate, daily. This is going on for over past 4 years now.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ there is no way you know your genetic limits as you have no way of knowing how good or bad your genetics are in the first place. you can argue based on your years in elementary school if you were one of the faster kids on the playground, or one of the strongest how good your genetics are. but a lot of kids are given shitty food by their parents or do not have active lifestyles so that might not even be a good example.. i know kids who played soccer from 4 years old till high school and still sucked at it.

as far as a first cycle.. run something like primo alone, or something where you can recover from easily. don't run anything that is difficult to recover from or will cause a lot of estrogen or prolactin problems. i used to tell new guys to run test only cycles, but i have evolved my thinking cause test only cycles are very suppressive and primo is not. primo is one of the easier AAS to recover from. if you are in fact at your genetic limit as you say and you have the perfect diet and workout strategy then primo will be like a godsend to you.

 

[stevesmi]

also with primo only you dont need to worry about AI's, caber, and you don't need to spend a crapload on a pct either.

with test only you will need an AI, you will need to a very strong PCT.

i mean don't get me wrong eventually you are gonna need to understand how to use AI's and caber, and a strong PCT etc. this is why research is important.. you should stick around here for a while, and learn as much as you can. BEFORE juicing. instead of learning on the fly and making mistakes

 

[h3rcul3s]

Thanks stevesmi I completely agree that gaining all necessary knowledge at this point is very crucial.I'd definitely like to go with such a safer option for first cycle. But, I dont think Primo is available with any of my sources :-(Also, have gone through the other post by steve <<< what to do on a cycle and how to recover >>>.

Thanks for sharing knowledge in a simplified manner.

Primary reason for adding Deca to the cycle, I missed to mention earlier is mainly to deal with my separated shoulder joint. I heard that Deca helps with bad joints.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ deca is a bad idea for a first cycle but by all means go for it if you think you can handle it. but i hope you run the proper ancillaries with it and run a very very good pct.. the excuse 'my source doesn't have it' isn't a good way to run cycles.

deca won't do anything for joints that eating good omega's and taking fish oil won't do.. its not a good reason to run deca.. but like i said you are old enough to make your own decisions and i'm not gonna try and persuade you not to. if i told you how many guys PM me on a daily basis cause they have post cycle crash from running deca you wouldn't believe me

 

[Judo Tom]

listen cant and wont go wrong if you really listen to advice from steve..

 

[strentrainin]

I'd listen to both of those guys... Won't steer you wrong. One thing i've learned from my personal experience and mostly my friends and guys in the gym is this... 3 things are key before AAS. #1 Diet, #2 Traning #3 Sleep. If you are nailing all those down you should see results... I'm a skinny guy and if I don't Eat my face off and train hard 3-5 days a week I will lose weight.. doesn't matter if i'm eating mcdonalds for every meal... just the way it is.. Also if you're not sleeping soundly all the work in the kitchen and gym won't pay off near as well. Muscles metabolize and build and absorb those needed nutrient while you rest/sleep... so think about that..... Then comes the juice. and I'd say PCT is most important or it's a waste of gear and money.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ having a fast metabolism isn't a bad thing in bodybuilding.. i know it sounds weird to a skinny guy but its true. the OP needs to just learn to eat more like you said. its much easier to put on mass being skinny, then it is to lose weight being fat and having a slow metabolism IMO especially as we age.

deca is a great idea for someone who wants mass, but not for a first cycle.. save it for a 3rd cycle once you gain experience.

 

[PJuice]

@ Hercules, I can understand where ur coming from fully. I had similar stats. I have a small bone structure like urself and an inch taller. I can tell u at ur bodyfat percentage and weight u can probably gain about 10 to 15 more pounds naturally. Maybe it's not ur diet, but training and rest may be ur issue. I have run many compounds as well and I can tell u deca was the hardest to recover from. I personally wouldn't run it for a firs cycle. There's nothing more devastating than making great gains during a cycle then lose it all and possibly end up with less mass then u started with. This is is very possible when dealing with something as suppressive as deca. If u really feel u want to run 2 compounds and can't get primo like Steve reccomdnds, try a dbol or tbol. IMO, u need to research then see what works best for u as a pct. U will find this is by far the most important part of ur cycle. Unless u plan to live on cycle, pct is super important. What's the point of putting on 15 solid pounds for the several weeks u are on cycle if u can't keep most of it? This is why I feel u should start out with 1 compound at a time, see how u respond, and see how u recover. Then u can get ur cycles and pct to work best for you personally. Iv learned there is no cookie cutter method in juicing. U will have to learn what works best for YOU. And taking things one thing at a time is the easiest way to figure it out. Hope my rambling helps...

 

[TheSVPdeal]

Shitty cycle with a shitty PCT. What was the logic behind running Sus for the first 2 week? Whatever, doesn't really matter. You have a lot of research to do, My friend. I would start off by reading all of the stickies.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Im not going to start piling on with my own experience. But in the nicest way possible i mean this.....dont be a jackass. Especially for the first time. I wish I had EF and guys like Steve, N2, ect around back when I did my first run 15 yrs ago. Being able to have knowledge like this at a noob's fingertips is pure gold.
Deca will fuck your shit up period. Yes, its good for mass and killer for strength. Its also great to make you into a big fat water bag if you dont use it and the proper ancillaries correctly. Joints....? Well, 3 days after my first deca pin my joints feel better. Yes literally. We're talking some sore tendons or a little creaky joint here and there. Not miraculous joint repair. But when you stop, the feeling better stops. So as a new guy to AAS your going to put a band aid on sore joints with deca and get crazy strong with everything and beat the shit out of your joints for 10-12 weeks then take the band aid off and end up worse than when you started. Plus....with alot of guys, no matter the quality of PCT it still takes 3-6 mos to fully recover from as little as 200mg of deca wk. There are some lucky guys that can run massive amounts of deca and have no recovery issues. This is a small percentage of guys. Point being, its a bad choice for a first cycle.
Do yourself a favor and do alot more reading and research before you dive in.
Best of luck to you.

 

[kwojcik0668]

Hi guys can you help me im looking to run my first cycle and i was woundering what you think my goals are Strength and To put on 20 plus LBS with not a tremedous amount of fat gain this is the cycle i want to run.


Dbol Weeks 1-5 20mg daily split
Deca Weeks 1-14 250mgs Weekly
Test E Weeks 1-16 500mgs Weekly
Arimidex Weeks 1-20
PCT will be Nolva and Clomid
Lots of Liver protectant

I know ppl are gonna say this is to much for my first cycle but ive ran some serious PH's like Superdrol,Helladrol,Stakabol,Emonster i think im ready and well prepard.



If you can think of a better cycle that will help me optain my goals i would like to hear it and any other advice you have would be great Thank you .....


Basic stats

AGE 21
HEIGHT 6'3
WEIGHT 208
Lifting Experiance 6 YEARS
Goals Strenth and Weight gain of actleast 20lbs with not alot of fat gain

 

[hurricane]

Hi guys can you help me im looking to run my first cycle and i was woundering what you think my goals are Strength and To put on 20 plus LBS with not a tremedous amount of fat gain this is the cycle i want to run.


Dbol Weeks 1-5 20mg daily split
Deca Weeks 1-14 250mgs Weekly
Test E Weeks 1-16 500mgs Weekly
Arimidex Weeks 1-20
PCT will be Nolva and Clomid
Lots of Liver protectant

I know ppl are gonna say this is to much for my first cycle but ive ran some serious PH's like Superdrol,Helladrol,Stakabol,Emonster i think im ready and well prepard.



If you can think of a better cycle that will help me optain my goals i would like to hear it and any other advice you have would be great Thank you .....


Basic stats

AGE 21
HEIGHT 6'3
WEIGHT 208
Lifting Experiance 6 YEARS
Goals Strenth and Weight gain of actleast 20lbs with not alot of fat gain

please make your own thread good friend and dont hijack someone else's.Many people will jump to help you including me.

 

[kwojcik0668]

K Thank you ....srry im new to this tryin to figure out how to start my own thread sorry

 

[hurricane]

K Thank you ....srry im new to this tryin to figure out how to start my own thread sorry

No problem, i have gifted u a free 7 day plantinum membership to make your new experience here more enjoyable .

 

[kwojcik0668]

.....Thank you very much CANE

 

[h3rcul3s]

Guys just wanted to give you a quick update on this cycle. This cycle is over for over a month now. I think I'm recovered almost fully PCT will be continued for 6 more weeks.
I gained 20lbs and maintained 15lbs.

Thanks!

 

[gatemoney]

^^^awesome!

 

[TheSVPdeal]

That's great news but you won't know if you're recovered without bloods.

Continue to train hard and diet properly. Keep us updated.

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