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My 1-AD experience: 5 weeks on 5 weeks off

SilentSurfer

New member
Hi, guys. This is my first post on this board. If you're interested, here's my recent 1-AD experience. I hope you find it helpful:

A little history. I'm 38 years old. 5'8" tall. Started my 1-AD cycle on June 15st at 165 lbs (including a creatine load).

I measured my fat changes during the cycle using a skinfold caliper at 2 locations (my toughest places to lose) so rather than percentages I have navel and "love handle" pinch measurements in milimeters. These provide sufficient relative fat measurements.

I'm a lifetime natural. Done a few prohormones over the last 3 years, but never found them very effective.

Now, don't laugh, I'm not a hardcore lifter. I was a diver in highschool and college and had a leaner gymnast-type body then.

So here's where I started: June 15, 2001.
Weight: 165
Fat: 13mm navel, 17mm love handles
Leg press: 504 for 12 x 2
Leg ext: 170 for 12 x 2
Leg curl: 95 for 12 x 2
Machine flys: 110 for 12 x 2
Machine pullovers: 120 for 12 x 2
Machine delt raises: 110 for 12 x 2
Cable pull downs: 120 for 12 x 2

And here's where I ended the cycle on 7/22:
Weight: 182 lbs
Fat: 14mm navel, 17mm love handles
Leg press: 630 for 12 x 2
Leg ext: 300 for 12 x 2
Leg curl: 135 for 12, 10
Machine flys: 180 for 12 x 2
Machine pullovers: 180 for 12 x 2
Machine delt raises: 150 for 12 x 2
Cable pull downs: 180 for 10 x 2

Now, 5 weeks after the end of the cycle:
Weight: 180
Fat: 15mm navel, 17mm love handles

I took 1 1-AD pill 3 times a day for a total of 3 per day for 5 weeks. This is the smallest dose recommended. I took creatine (no change from previous at 5g per day) and ZMA, 3 caps per night. No other suppliments. Diet was unchanged. I was eating only about 2500 to 3000 calories per day.

I worked out 3 x per week for an hour. 2 sets of about 12 exercises. 3 days per week I did 30 minutes to 1 hour of mid intensity treadmill, no running, just walking at various inclines.

I didn't feel much the first week, just some digestive discomfort if I didn't eat enough with each dose. This was not stomach pain, just a twinge of nausea and only if I didn't eat enough with the dose. BE SURE TO TAKE 1-AD WITH MEALS. Real meals, not just a protein shake. Even the new diol version needs food to aviod a pretty upset stomach in my case. I also had a fair amount of gas the whole 5 weeks.

Here's my weight and skinfold log:
6/15 165 lbs, 13/17mm (navel/love handles)
6/22 171 lbs, 14/16mm
6/30 173 lbs, 13/16mm
7/05 175 lbs, 14/16mm
7/16 177 lbs, 14/16mm
7/22 182 lbs, 14/16mm end of 5 week cycle
7/29 180 lbs, 15/16mm
8/07 179 lbs, 14/16mm
8/31 180 lbs, 15/17mm end of 5 week off period

Beginning in week 2 I started feeling amazing pumps in the gym. These felt like the extra pumps you get with creatine but multiplied by about 10. This was tremendously motivating. I couldn't waid to get back in the gym to feel it again.

Strength went up significantly. 40-70% in each lift.

About 3 weeks into it, people started to notice my physique changing. I got compliments from my family and friends about how "buff" (I know, "buff" is a relative word for me, starting out so lame). But for someone who's never been complimented on his physique, this was great.

I didn't measure chest/or arms or legs, before or after, but I've literally grown out of almost oall of my shirts and suit coats which have all become uncomfortably tight. So, budget for new clothing when you start 1-AD.

I finished the cycle on 7/22. The day after our family drove for about 4 hours to Idaho and when we arrived I found that my ankles and feet were swollen a bit. It appeared to be an accumulations of lymph fluid (known as edema). This is common with some traditional steroids, but it was a surprise to me. The swelling remained for over a week and has now subsided completely

Also, during the cycle I had some new acne. This got somewhat worse right after the cycle. I'm not talking about an embarassing amount, just a dozen or so zits on my face and arms.

Over 5 weeks after the cycle, I'm still getting good pumps in the gym, not quite like when "on" but motivating still.

I'm ready to start another cycle now. I've prepared a topical version of 1-AD (1-AD, grain alcohol, isopropyl myristate). I'll see if this provides the same gains without the gas I experienced the first time. Also, this time I'm going to eat more, especially protein, and more often and I'll drink plenty of extra water (for acne and swelling precaution). I think the post-cycle swelling I had last time could be solved with some Clomid.

All in all, I gained about 15 lbs of muscle, lots of strength and little or no fat on a single 5 week cycle of 1-AD at only 3 capsules per day. Side effects were acceptably minimal.

:newbie:
 
Good post....

when you make the topical version of 1-ad are you going to get bulk powder from somewhere or are you using the caps from the ergopharm bottle?
 
I don't know of a bulk source of 1-AD. I thought perhaps kilosports would have it, but I'm not sure their 5-Alpha-Androst-1-en-3,17 diol will be the same thing. (anyone know for sure?). They said they'd be stocking it in about a week.

But if it is the same, I ran the numbers and found that 1-AD from Ergopharm in pill form is only 12% more than the same price as the bulk will be from kilosports. One bottle of 1-AD contains 6gm of the ingredient and costs $41.95 at comfortnuturition.com. That's $6.80 per gram. Kilosports will be $6 per gram. At 20 grams the price drops to $5 per gram. So that's a significanly better deal.

Separating the raw material from the binder that comes in the capsules is a bit of a pain, so I'd rather have the bulk powder, even if the price were the same.

All this doesn't matter much in the long run. I understand Ergopharm will do a topical when supplies allow.
 
good post

bout the same for me, 20 lbs gained after 2 cycles, no loss in bodyfat, only side effect some zits breaking out on arms, mostly forearms.
 
this sounds good but i'm waiting for the prices to go down before i try it. It's too overpriced
 
Silent Surfer...

Brock strasser from T-mag.com had this to say about making your own 1-AD....

"However, you can get 5-Alpha-Androst-1-en-3,17 diol from at least one bulk supplement supplier on the web that I know of, so look around. 100 grams of 5-Alpha-Androst-1-en-3,17 diol is $139.99 or $1.39 per gram (compared that to the $10 per gram for the finished product). Also, the Chinese have succeeded in making a "diol" version, something the original manufacturer couldn’t do until quite recently. I think if I were going to try 1-AD, I’d probably opt to buy the bulk powder and save 80-90% rather than buy the finished product."

The quote is a few months old, so I know the prices are a tad off.
 
forearm acne on 1-A

There's been some discussion of stomache upset if you don't eat enough food with a dose of 1-AD, but what about other side effects?

Anyone else get acne primarily on their forearms with 1-AD besides myself and billyde?

anyone else experience it from other supps/prohormones/gear?

How about welling in your feet post cycle?

What about hair loss. I'm worried about that, but did not experience any on my first 1-AD cycle. Anyone else?

Anyone had other sides?
 
Thanks, Trav.

I've seen Brock's post on t-mag. I agree that making your own with bulk powder is better.

When he posted that I went to kilosports.com and found their 5 Alpha diol powder. I was about to order some when I found another post saying that kilosports had had a miscommunication with their supplier and sent a product which was not 5 Alpha diol. They were halting shipments until they could be sure. I then confirmed this with kilosports.

Now kilosports is saying that they'll have the real stuff in a week, but the price is $60 per 10 grams, $100 for 20 grams.

Finally, I'd really like to know....
.....is 1-AD the same as 5-Alpha-Androst-1-en-3,17 diol?

I have an inquiry into kilosports. I'll post their reply when I receive it.
 
I am pretty positive they are they same, on Ergopharm`s website the chemical 1-AD name is...

1-androstene-3beta, 17beta-diol.

And in another paragraph they mention the product...."Being a 5alpha-reduced androgen"...

hence... 5-Alpha-Androst-1-en-3,17 diol.
 
confirmed

I have the same experience with 1-ad . I'm now in week 3 and i see mussle gains . I just have to watch what i eat cos i want to eat more ...Maybe that's because i train harder .

Everyday i wait till i can jump into the gym again..

but i need some help with my training scheme .


i do :

days numbered 1-7

1.) chest , 15 minutes walking or other cardio
2.) shoulders , 10 minutes warm up cardio
3.) Biceps , 15-25 minutes cardio
4.) triceps , cardio 15 minutes
5.) legs
6.) back
7.) Mountainbiking


I dunno why i spread over 6 days , but i started this one year ago....

What is a normal split ?


grtz bd
 
Trav I don't think it's the same thing. If this guy has patended this supplement it's illegal for anyone to sell it but him right now. When the patent time is up then others can start selling it, till then he is the only person who can sell it.
 
KiloSports replied to me today saying that their 5 ALPHA-ANDROST-1-EN-3,17 DIOL 3,17 is the same chemical as Ergopharm's 1-AD. I comes out of China.
 
SilentSurfer said:
KiloSports replied to me today saying that their 5 ALPHA-ANDROST-1-EN-3,17 DIOL 3,17 is the same chemical as Ergopharm's 1-AD. I comes out of China.
I'd want further confirmation of these being the exact same chemically before forking out the $ if I were you. Of course KiloSports will say it is since they're the ones selling the product, and who knows how pure the Chinese stuff is? Looks like they've also jacked up their prices considerably from Brock's original statement.

Don't get me wrong here: It'd be great to have an alternative to Ergo's 1-AD that's in bluk form and less expensive. I'm just suggesting to get multiple confirmations first.

What risky said is correct: ErgoPharm & Patrick Arnold have a patent on 1-AD (and the chemical formulation). With that patent, it is illegal for any other company to manufacture or sell the same chemical within the U.S. Importing & selling a Chinese equivalent is still breaking U.S. law, so I'd be skeptical of how true & pure KiloSports' version is.
 
SilentSurfer said:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ergo/1ad.html says:

What's in it?

5-Alpha-Androstan-1-en-3, 17-diol 100 mg
OK, I admit that's fairly convincing aside from the missing "an" on KiloSport's version (5-Alpha-Androst-1-en-3, 17-diol).

To gather information for myself, I posed a question to LPJ Research (ErgoPharm's parent company & major inventer & supplier of unpackaged prohormones to other companies) and I received this response from Patrick Arnold himself:

Written by Patrick Arnold of LPJ Research/ErgoPharm

I assume you are talking about kilosports. Last time I heard they were selling this (supposedly), the product turned out to be mislabled 5alpha-androstandiol.

I was not aware that they were offering it again, and I would love to see a sample of this stuff if they are.

Keep in mind that there is no commercially avaialable analytical
standard with which to test this stuff against, and its identification
by analytical techniques is hard because of its close structural
similarity to 4-AD.

1-Adiol is very hard to make as the reaction to make it does not proceed smoothly like other diol reactions do. Last I heard, the chinese were still stumped on it.

If I were you, I would get some independent verification that this stuff is indeed what it is labeled as, before you go out thinking you are getting some great deal.

thanks

Patrick

--
PA
http://www.ergopharm.net
http://www.lpjresearch.com

I've asked Patrick if LPJ can obtain a sample of KiloSport's version and test it in their laboratory since they are currently the only true manufacturers of 1-AD. It might not be considered fully unbiased, but neither are KiloSport's claims. If I receive any future responses I will post them. Like I said before, I'd want factual evidence that I'm getting what I'm paying for.
 
Pat may not be impartial, but he's pretty straightforward. He spends a great deal of time answering questions.

It seems a bit awkward to ask Pat to do an assay so that you can stop buying from him, though.

Really, you're not saving much going with Kilo (assuming they're selling the same thing).

You can buy 6g's of 1-ad, already in capsule form, for $45. Kilo is selling 10g's in bulk for $59. To me, its worth a little bit more to have it accurately measured and in easy to use capsules.
 
I agree Zen. You do get 4g's more with kilosports, IF it's the real stuff, for about $15 more, but then you have to find & purchase caps, measure the stuff out, & get it into the caps in order to take it.

You're paying $0.73/cap for 1-AD compared to $0.59/cap (not incl. price of caps) for kilosport's version. Personally, I think I'd rather pay 14-cents more per cap to know I'm getting the real stuff and not have to screw with measuring out the bulk powder and getting it encapsulated.

Oh yeah, and I wasn't asking Patrick to perform a test on kilosport's product for MY benefit or to convince me to buy from them. He claimed he's interested in getting hold of some and testing it to see if it's either bunk or meets their claims. I just told him I'd post the results of any testing he did to prove or disprove kilosports. All of us on these boards like a good head's up on whether or not a product actually meets the claims.
 
Last edited:
I didn't. I sent the e-mail to LPJ Research, whoever received it there forwarded it to Pat, and he replied directly to me.

That obviously shows that he's willing to answer any questions, and I know I've seen his posts on another site, but I cannot remember what site it was. I think someone just had a link to his post from within EF.

I replied back to his e-mail, then he replied again saying they (LPJ) would order a sample from kilosports and perform a test on it for their own knowledge, but would not release the results no matter if they test positive or negative for being a 1-AD equivalent...bad business practice & possible lawsuit were the reasons he mentioned.
 
I thought about just sending a message to that info address, but figured it would never get read.

Pretty cool...
 
How about our own independent test?

I have no reason to doubt that Patrick would admit that they successfully sourced an equivalent to 1-AD. He's been very responsive to me and deserves every courtesy.

But there's nothing like an independent test.

I've got fresh 1-AD delivered today and I've ordered kilosport's claimed Chinese equivalent, which they claim is in stock and shipping. So I should receive it in a few days.

I live near at least one well respected supplement testing lab that many brands use to provide their official assay results.

I'll find out what it would take to have someone do a comparison of the two. (time and cost)

If I can afford it, I'll pay for a comparison of the two materials. Then I'll report the results in an unbiased manner.

But I will give both Ergopharm and Kilosports 24 hours to review the procedures taken and results obtained and provide a response that I will post from each of them with the results. I'm sure they'll have their own tests done, so if the results they obtain are quite different, I'm sure we'll hear about it.

As Patrick said, there's no independent standard for this yet, so we'll have to be satisified with a comparison or we'll use 1-AD as the baseline. Bear in mind that there are several factors that can affect a test like this. One factor we'll have for sure is that the lab will have to attempt to separate the 1-AD in the capsule from the binder that's used in manufacturing. The Kilosports product is bulk powder so it should not have that issue. Perhaps just before the test, I'll should Ergopharm and ask them to FedEx me a pure 1-AD sample for the test and we'll do a 3rd comparison (again if it's not too expensive.).

Is there enough interest here on the board for me to go to this trouble?
 
Re: How about our own independent test?

SilentSurfer said:
Is there enough interest here on the board for me to go to this trouble?
I'd say so, but I'm with you, it depends on the expense involved.

Pat did say that he (or LPJ) can easily tell what is pure 1-AD and what is not, but that analysis is currently proprietary information of LPJ's. He suggested the following labs, though did say there are others:

San Rafael Labs
Intergrated Biomolecule Corp
Research Triangle Labs

I think it would likely be highly beneficial to the labs to be able to perform a comparison test of both products. Assuming ErgoPharm's sample is the real thing, it might be easier for them to compare it w/kilosports.

Would be great to have this test performed and to know for sure...as that is the only way aside from trusting verbal assurances.

Oh yeah, and Pat admitted that he's a nerd. LOL!:FRlol:
 
RealDeal said:
I'd want further confirmation of these being the exact same chemically before forking out the $ if I were you. Of course KiloSports will say it is since they're the ones selling the product, and who knows how pure the Chinese stuff is? Looks like they've also jacked up their prices considerably from Brock's original statement.

Don't get me wrong here: It'd be great to have an alternative to Ergo's 1-AD that's in bluk form and less expensive. I'm just suggesting to get multiple confirmations first.

What risky said is correct: ErgoPharm & Patrick Arnold have a patent on 1-AD (and the chemical formulation). With that patent, it is illegal for any other company to manufacture or sell the same chemical within the U.S. Importing & selling a Chinese equivalent is still breaking U.S. law, so I'd be skeptical of how true & pure KiloSports' version is.

Manufacturer's can buy licenses for patents, making it legal for them to manufacture the patented substance.
 
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