Marijuana - no long term memory effects, and can improve cognitive function!

[Lestat]

Why do foggers always cycle back to the evils of alcohol? You do realize that has absolutely nothing to do with pot-related issues, don't you?

Let's try your fogger to alcohol logic on another pair of drugs:

Alcohol use in certain amounts and frequency is definitely bad for you.

Huffing toluene and toluene-containing compounds is most definitely worse (irreversible brain damage, even at modest amounts).

But toluene-based compounds are readily available to anyone of any age. Ergo, alcohol should also be readily available to anyone of any age.

I agree that as a compound, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other, but its interesting to me to see different people's approaches to controlling them.

I personally do not drink alcohol at all. I used to, but I don't anymore. For me personally it has far more negative effects than positive. It has has measurable negative effects on me.

I don't for a minute want to stop other's from using it. I do want to stop people from using it and driving. I want there to be stiff penalties for alcohol related violence (especially domestic) and I don't want to see it in the hands of kids (although I support lowering the drinking age to 18).

One of the points I will continually try to drive home is this. Millions of dollars have been spent to try to paint the worst picture possible about Marijuana. Millions have been spent on a fraudulent scientific study. Millions have been spend on public ad campaigns. Propaganda movies, etc.

With alcohol, millions are spent glamorizing it. Driving home I see 5 billboards per day advertising it using attractive women and other traditional marketing tricks.

Again I am totally ok with this, but why when it comes to the sacred green herb marjuana do so many supposedly intelligent people fall prey to well funded marketing machines?

The cost to society for marijuana is so great, I am sure you and I both agree on that and would love to see an end to it. We have prisons full of people in there for possession, low level trafficking ($10 and $20 bags, come on). All that aforementioned propaganda was paid for by someone (the public). Lets just put a stop to this madness and let people live their lives the way they choose (given that huge caveat that they don't negatively impact others).

 

[mrplunkey]

The cost to society for marijuana is so great, I am sure you and I both agree on that and would love to see an end to it. We have prisons full of people in there for possession, low level trafficking ($10 and $20 bags, come on). All that aforementioned propaganda was paid for by someone (the public). Lets just put a stop to this madness and let people live their lives the way they choose (given that huge caveat that they don't negatively impact others).

Yet we disagree on how to put an end to it.

If you're really worried about the costs associated with marijuana, here's a simple solution. Make possession a civil offense with absolutely no jail/probation component. Instead let it be a flat $10,000 fine per violation. So then, there's no downstream costs and enforcement could be self-funding.

 

[Lestat]

Yet we disagree on how to put an end to it.

If you're really worried about the costs associated with marijuana, here's a simple solution. Make possession a civil offense with absolutely no jail/probation component. Instead let it be a flat $10,000 fine per violation. So then, there's no downstream costs and enforcement could be self-funding.

The costs of marijuana do not come from simply possessing it, they come because of our reaction to people possessing it which is irrational and illogical.

I say we fine local municipalities $10,000 per possession arrest/citation given and use those funds to pay for any downstream costs (public defender fees, jail/prison costs, loss of productivity).

 

[mrplunkey]

The costs of marijuana do not come from simply possessing it, they come because of our reaction to people possessing it which is irrational and illogical.

I say we fine local municipalities $10,000 per possession arrest/citation given and use those funds to pay for any downstream costs (public defender fees, jail/prison costs, loss of productivity).

Yeah, that's a great idea!

Odd how foggers want the government out of their business when it comes to that magical plant, but don't have a problem with government getting in the middle of every other aspect of life.

Let's both become hard core libertarians.

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

"The right to life, liberty and happiness ends where the other man's wallet begins."
- Mr. Plunkey

 

[Lestat]

I don't want government involved in many areas of my life, I think government should be as minimal as possible. I think the goal of private and government run programs, rules, laws, regulations is to increase overall opportunity, productivity, and happiness for all.

 

[mrplunkey]

I don't want government involved in many areas of my life, I think government should be as minimal as possible. I think the goal of private and government run programs, rules, laws, regulations is to increase overall opportunity, productivity, and happiness for all.

So you'd be fine with massive scale backs in the departments of education, energy, health and human services, labor, etc. etc.?

Are we gonna lead the charge to revoke ObamaCare together?

 

[Lestat]

So you'd be fine with massive scale backs in the departments of education, energy, health and human services, labor, etc. etc.?

Are we gonna lead the charge to revoke ObamaCare together?

Of course not. We've been over this before, but I wouldn't want to live on a street where trash, fire, or police service was voluntary. Imagine you pay for trash, fire, and police but your neighbors don't. What happens when they have 3 months of trash piled up and their home catches on fire taking your's with it?

Lets be smart about things, meaning, actually think about them! Not just knee jerk reactions, rhetoric, and toe-ing the partly line.

Its in our best interests both as a country and individuals to have a highly educated populace. Public safety is a concern of mine, is it not of your's? Healthy workers are for more productive to my company than sick ones (especially if they can't make it in to work!).

Minimum government involvement doesn't mean bury your head in the sand and ignore there is a world around you, or in some fortunate people's cases, build a wall around you and shut everyone but who you explicitly choose, out.

I say lets start with the low hanging fruit first, this is common in many facets of life. Choose the things that have the most bang for your buck with the least amount of upfront cost and effort. Start there. Don't ignore the bigger issues, we'll tackle those too, but maybe a few small wins would help get things on the right track.

My optimism about our current government is low though. I give Obama credit for trying. He's alienating some of his core by actually does what a good leader should and compromising, but he's compromised on some of the wrong things (think early on with how he handled financial dealings, putting the crooks (Goldman Sachs) into positions of power).

 

[mrplunkey]

Of course not. We've been over this before, but I wouldn't want to live on a street where trash, fire, or police service was voluntary. Imagine you pay for trash, fire, and police but your neighbors don't. What happens when they have 3 months of trash piled up and their home catches on fire taking your's with it?

Lets be smart about things, meaning, actually think about them! Not just knee jerk reactions, rhetoric, and toe-ing the partly line.

Its in our best interests both as a country and individuals to have a highly educated populace. Public safety is a concern of mine, is it not of your's? Healthy workers are for more productive to my company than sick ones (especially if they can't make it in to work!).

Minimum government involvement doesn't mean bury your head in the sand and ignore there is a world around you, or in some fortunate people's cases, build a wall around you and shut everyone but who you explicitly choose, out.

I say lets start with the low hanging fruit first, this is common in many facets of life. Choose the things that have the most bang for your buck with the least amount of upfront cost and effort. Start there. Don't ignore the bigger issues, we'll tackle those too, but maybe a few small wins would help get things on the right track.

My optimism about our current government is low though. I give Obama credit for trying. He's alienating some of his core by actually does what a good leader should and compromising, but he's compromised on some of the wrong things (think early on with how he handled financial dealings, putting the crooks (Goldman Sachs) into positions of power).

I wouldn't want to live on a street with a bunch of pot foggers either, so I guess busting hippies goes on the list of essential services I expect from the government.

 

[Lestat]

I wouldn't want to live on a street with a bunch of pot foggers either, so I guess busting hippies goes on the list of essential services I expect from the government.

How would that negatively impact you?

 

[mrplunkey]

How would that negatively impact you?

Hippies running up and down the street don't exactly enhance property value. Plus think about how many crimes are done simply for drug money. I'll pass on having a stoner hangout next door to me.