Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Making changes to how Karma works - we want your feedback.
- Thread starter George Spellwin
- Start date
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
slat1 said:
That is my feeling about it in a nutshell. It was just fun.
I didn't say "your karma has value" because I expect you to pay for it; I said it because we're no longer pushing around wheelbarrows full of worthless paper. We can start treating people like grownups. We can let people hit who they want, when they want, and not spend all day looking for K threads.
YOU will determine what your karma is really worth to you, in terms of what it will take to get you to part with a green hit instead of pumping it out to people for no damn reason.
You say "everybody gave me green"? SO WHAT? It was meaningless. Somebody hitting you and saying "Hit me back" just because you have a pulse. That's the only thing that's changed. Yeah, it's going to be harder to convince people to give up the green stuff, but when they do it's going to mean something.
YOU will determine what your karma is really worth to you, in terms of what it will take to get you to part with a green hit instead of pumping it out to people for no damn reason.
You say "everybody gave me green"? SO WHAT? It was meaningless. Somebody hitting you and saying "Hit me back" just because you have a pulse. That's the only thing that's changed. Yeah, it's going to be harder to convince people to give up the green stuff, but when they do it's going to mean something.
foreigngirl
New member
nope, its not gonna mean anything cause I got few hits just to "unload" the K they got. That goes for the people with very little K to work with
gjohnson5
New member
digger said:
Since HumanTarget said no COTB has stood up for the plats then let me begin. I just got through saying that some of the K complaining was getting annoying but the pragmatic side of this cannot be ignored. The thing that's got me wondering is that are you trying to convince US of that or are you trying to convince YOURSELF of that? When you yourself are known for not K hitting people, changing the K system in this manner was predictable. Infact I would have bet on it in the bookie forum....
If you were trying to create a system where K would not increase at such an astonishing or exponential rate then you have accomplished that. If you have made something that is so controversial that people are going to stop sponsoring you , then this is something all together different. Does people hitting eachother in a MEANINGLESS way such an issue that folks are willing to lose much of thier sponsorship over it???
Somehow I don't think so....
I don't understand why K was such a large feature to the point that it was the main reason folks kept had a plat membership and that spending $$$$ for K is seen as taboo. From a business perspective, yes making money is the number one issue. If this becomes so obvious that youj actually LOSE money then I would consider it a big problem. But since we now see that this is the case then I guess I'd be interested in how this are going to be changed. Yes , changed!
because Elite doesn't make money on non plats...
foreigngirl
New member
gjohnson, I doubt hardly that it is gonna get changed back as it was. They could at least make it that we lose 10% of our hit when we give green K instead of the whole amount of it.
People did stay here and kept on paying plat cause teh karma game was fun. Now that that is taken away from us, there is no point in paying for our membership, cause all info I need to get from this site I can get it as non-plat too. I wont pay to buy karma for the simple fact that when I hit someone else, I lose it.
People did stay here and kept on paying plat cause teh karma game was fun. Now that that is taken away from us, there is no point in paying for our membership, cause all info I need to get from this site I can get it as non-plat too. I wont pay to buy karma for the simple fact that when I hit someone else, I lose it.
foreigngirl
New member
oh, yeah? List them upperkele said:
gjohnson5
New member
foreigngirl said:
I didn't necessarily mean changed back to the way it was but atleast changed in a more acceptable way to the plats. The folks renewing thier membership is a good source of money. All they do is K hit eachother and type BS on a computer... Hell I need to come up with a money making scheme like that too
But scale it down instead of imposing a penalties
foreigngirl
New member
gjohnson5 said:I didn't necessarily mean changed back to the way it was but atleast changed in a more acceptable way to the plats. The folks renewing thier membership is a good source of money. All they do is K hit eachother and type BS on a computer... Hell I need to come up with a money making scheme like that too
But scale it down instead of imposing a penalties
yeah, I know...Thats why I said make it at least 10% lost of the amount of hit that we gonna use. This is seriously overdone
Depends what you are searching and for what reason. I still do a lot of searches probably more then any other plat feature I use the search feature the most. There is a lot of good info added to Elite everyday and I don't have all day to keep up the tons of new threads that are started so I use the search function no just when doing research for a new split diet and or training sometimes just to keep up with the day to day I miss. If you honestly believe that karma is the most valuable thing about this site you need to open your dam eyes.foreigngirl said:
foreigngirl
New member
me, personally, I dont need daily updates on the threads here. If I wanna know something and my husband cant help me, I just PM someone and thats it. Karma was a game we played and enjoyed.superqt4u2nv said:
Karma was a game back when you could hit people for like 10-25 points. People that had a shit load of karma had like 50 000 or something now we have millionairs. They had to do something to control the system. I am getting used to the new system and in time I am most people will too.foreigngirl said:
foreigngirl
New member
superqt4u2nv said:
sure, but at least they can make us lose 10% of our hit instead of all of it
foreigngirl
New member
I've been losing my K so far. Even with hittin 10%Mr. dB said:
blut wump
New member
No. Karma wasn't meaningless. It was social cement. It was a means to say "Hi", "congrats", "thanks", "well done", "go git 'em" and, occasionally, "FU" along with a little feel-good, or feel-bad, package of points.
You're now going to make us pay for sending those messages through Karma. You're making us pay for giving someone a pat on the back or any of the others, besides the big "FU" that is. That's still free.
What's this talk of Karma Threads? They died out around a year ago, we evolved away from them. Admin gives the impression of having lost touch with how the members use Karma.
I'm tired of thumping this welkin since Digger and George seem to be tuned to a different frequency. Do we have any members who have seriously sung the praises of the new system?
You're now going to make us pay for sending those messages through Karma. You're making us pay for giving someone a pat on the back or any of the others, besides the big "FU" that is. That's still free.
What's this talk of Karma Threads? They died out around a year ago, we evolved away from them. Admin gives the impression of having lost touch with how the members use Karma.
I'm tired of thumping this welkin since Digger and George seem to be tuned to a different frequency. Do we have any members who have seriously sung the praises of the new system?
blut wump
New member
New system is bad. OK maybe too strong. I'll settle for 'inferior' but I'd prefer 'shite'. 'Good' just doesn't apply.perkele said:
Swole is now no longer Plat so we've lost the half of the motive force in the Bookie Forum which has slowed too.
A big fun aspect has died. That the new crowd will be mostly unaware of what they're missing is hardly relevant. Time will tell whether this leads to more or fewer Plat memberships.
The crying is going to slow since mostly everyone has said their piece and been ignored, except for Digger popping in to offer ridicule.
COTBs and Mods seem to be running on the old system so even the Uppers don't see the new system as good for everyone. Are we to assume that COTBs are getting a worse deal than everyone else in this repect or maybe we'd be right in assuming the new system isn't 'good'.
blut wump
New member
Whoring isn't the issue, for me at least. I like giving out K and I like to receive it and maybe I've been a little freer with it than many.
Now, I repeatedly find myself wanting to give K to posts and stopping because I know it comes from my own stash.
I readily admit that a lot of my hits have gone to people rather than posts but many went to posts or to encourage people who regularly and frequently make good helpful posts since I couldn't hit all of their many good posts, typically in the training forum or in the aas forum.
We went though this several times in the main discussion earlier in this thread and in Rick's thread prior to this one. K is social cement and this recent change inhibits hitting. There were better solutions.
Now, I repeatedly find myself wanting to give K to posts and stopping because I know it comes from my own stash.
I readily admit that a lot of my hits have gone to people rather than posts but many went to posts or to encourage people who regularly and frequently make good helpful posts since I couldn't hit all of their many good posts, typically in the training forum or in the aas forum.
We went though this several times in the main discussion earlier in this thread and in Rick's thread prior to this one. K is social cement and this recent change inhibits hitting. There were better solutions.
blut wump
New member
HumanTarget is a fine example of someone I'd hit from time to time. I couldn't put my finger on any individual post of his that I'd say is a good post. However, when I see the trend and nature of his posts I find I enjoy the fact that he posts. As such, I'd hit him with green from time to time. Really just as a way of saying "Hi, I enjoy your work".
This whole idea of not hitting people and only hitting "good posts" is not how we have tended to use Karma and is not conducive to maximising the existance of Karma to promote social interaction on the chat board.
This whole idea of not hitting people and only hitting "good posts" is not how we have tended to use Karma and is not conducive to maximising the existance of Karma to promote social interaction on the chat board.
slat1
New member
If you go back and read through a lot of these posts you can see why the members are not happy. We were asked for our input as platinum members. Our input seems to have been ignored.
Further, there is a lack of professionalism with some of the mods and admins who have jobs with Elite.
I don't know who designed the new system. From the defensive posting I am assuming admins and mods had a hand in it.
We keep hearing "its just green dots" "its no big deal" My question would be then if its no big deal why change the system?
The bottom line is that those who designed the new system are taking money out of GS's pocket by people letting their plat memberships lapse. Next to no one is giving Karma for good posts either.
The system is less efficient now then before. Sometimes ideas don't work. Instead of digging in and being oblivious to the concerns out there take a look at those concerns and see if they can be fixed.
Everyone is here because they like the site for one feature or another. I don't see why this can't be worked out so that everyone is happy.
Right now minimizing peoples concerns and making petty comments is rubbing paying members the wrong way. Enough so that their sponsorship of the site is ending.
Further, there is a lack of professionalism with some of the mods and admins who have jobs with Elite.
I don't know who designed the new system. From the defensive posting I am assuming admins and mods had a hand in it.
We keep hearing "its just green dots" "its no big deal" My question would be then if its no big deal why change the system?
The bottom line is that those who designed the new system are taking money out of GS's pocket by people letting their plat memberships lapse. Next to no one is giving Karma for good posts either.
The system is less efficient now then before. Sometimes ideas don't work. Instead of digging in and being oblivious to the concerns out there take a look at those concerns and see if they can be fixed.
Everyone is here because they like the site for one feature or another. I don't see why this can't be worked out so that everyone is happy.
Right now minimizing peoples concerns and making petty comments is rubbing paying members the wrong way. Enough so that their sponsorship of the site is ending.
MikeMartial
New member
perkele said:
A helluva lot of people seem to completely lose sight of this.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
Mr. dB said:
Mr. DB - I liked them, all of them and I doubt there was any drag on the servers.
I will miss them.And Perk, saying new members won't give a shit about karma is like saying - let's change the Coke formula because the new customers won't give a shit about what the old Coke tasted like.
Remember the new Coke?.............. Well, neither do I.
Quadsweep's Sister said:Mr. DB - I liked them, all of them and I doubt there was any drag on the servers.
And Perk, saying new members won't give a shit about karma is like saying - let's change the Coke formula because the new customers won't give a shit about what the old Coke tasted like.
Remember the new Coke?.............. Well, neither do I.
I'm talkin' about karma whores who bitch about the changes. No one registers here to become a karma whore.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
perkele said:
That is true. I have a lot of karma, but I was not a karma whore - or well, what is the definition of a karma whore? For example: If I obtained the karma I have now over the course of 3 years, but have given hits out every day (under the old karma system) - would that make me a karma whore, just because I have a lot of karma? Is it expected that those who have a lot of karma should give it away to level the playing field so to speak (as it would seem under the new karma system).
I think hoarding is the key word up for discussion.
This is what I see happening with the old customers:
- current paying customer who plans to stay, hoards karma
- current paying customer who does not plan to stay gives out all karma, leaves site
- current paying customer who does not plan to renew membership as plat gives away all karma and only stays to talk to friends or read posts
A measure of a successful business is the way it treats the customers who made it successful. It is just like a gym environment. New members are motivated to stay, pay, train and etc, when in a surrounding where athletic, fit people reside and help them either through motivation by being there or talking to them/helping them. A business can't turn its back on what made it successful and think everything will just work itself out. Just like I was trying to say with the new Coke adage - the new formula doesn't always work. Unless the site was trying to rid itself of the old members who are now unhappy. I don't get it, its just confusing. Oh well, we'll see what happens I imagine.
slat1
New member
Quadsweep's Sister said:
I helped get you there by hitting you a few times a week. Was I hitting you with green because of your posts? Nope. It was because you took the time out of your day to help me outside of Elite on IM's.
When ever I needed something tweeked I could IM you and you would share some ideas. I always liked to hit you with some karma for the help and add a little note in to brighten you day.
Sorry you have not gotten any of those recently.
Whats a k whore and how much does one cost? I can buy more k I'm lonely tonight.... LOL
Really someone explain I know I'm slow. Do they sell themselves or is whore another term for greedy bastard sorry about the cuss word, but bastard is really someone born of a whore without a father I think? They could be k bastards, do k whores have pimps, is that what pintoca is? A k ho pimpdaddy. Its all supposed to be fun. I guess there has to be drama before the fun, Kinda like fightin with the signifigant other so you can make up, somebodys gonna get screwed. Sorry I've been on some serious meds the last few days. I don't think the peeps in the juice forum even know anything has changed, very few plats there except the mods.But they do have mods there. My foot does feel better MRI on Sunday. I'll know more then gottta get off these meds. Yeah i just won 9000 k in the bookie forum on world cup soccer I love that place....................Sweden
Really someone explain I know I'm slow. Do they sell themselves or is whore another term for greedy bastard sorry about the cuss word, but bastard is really someone born of a whore without a father I think? They could be k bastards, do k whores have pimps, is that what pintoca is? A k ho pimpdaddy. Its all supposed to be fun. I guess there has to be drama before the fun, Kinda like fightin with the signifigant other so you can make up, somebodys gonna get screwed. Sorry I've been on some serious meds the last few days. I don't think the peeps in the juice forum even know anything has changed, very few plats there except the mods.But they do have mods there. My foot does feel better MRI on Sunday. I'll know more then gottta get off these meds. Yeah i just won 9000 k in the bookie forum on world cup soccer I love that place....................Sweden
blut wump
New member
Step away from the meds. You wouldn't realise the irony of Perkele dissing anyone for Karma whoring.
As far as I can gather, these days anyone with crowns rather than green dots is classed as a K whore. You get crowns on reaching half a million.
Glad to hear that your foot continues to improve.
As far as I can gather, these days anyone with crowns rather than green dots is classed as a K whore. You get crowns on reaching half a million.
Glad to hear that your foot continues to improve.
blut wump
New member
Since Digger isn't popping in to slap you down, I guess this must be the official line:perkele said:
"If you dislike the changes, please just stop paying because we don't give a damn about your custom".
I guess it doesn't occur to anyone that those who speak up are those who feel strongly enough about the site to speak up. My opinion is that this was a poor solution to a perceived problem. Time will tell whether that was so.
Take a look through any board except the training board and you'll see the great majority in accord that this move is poor. If George thinks he'll sell more COTBs from it, I think taking Plat search away from Plats would push more people in that direction than this move ever could.
slat1
New member
I still don't get it. I keep hearing "its just green dots" and "its not a big deal"
Why did it get changed then?
Questions are not being answered.
Paying members are letting their accounts lapse.
Mods and admins are making petty comments in regards to people who have questioned this move.
Seems to me who ever is doing the hiring is making some mistakes. Big mistakes.
Why hire people who are not in touch with the customers?
Why hire people who will not answer questions?
Why hire people who act like children?
Why not fire those people?
If the owner of this site is making those mistakes what other mistakes are being made?
I always looked at this site as a well oiled machine. I was pround to be a part of it.
Right now I am embarrassed by the way some mods and admins have acted in this thread. The owner should be also. The actions are a direct representation of them.
Not good business in any sense.
Why did it get changed then?
Questions are not being answered.
Paying members are letting their accounts lapse.
Mods and admins are making petty comments in regards to people who have questioned this move.
Seems to me who ever is doing the hiring is making some mistakes. Big mistakes.
Why hire people who are not in touch with the customers?
Why hire people who will not answer questions?
Why hire people who act like children?
Why not fire those people?
If the owner of this site is making those mistakes what other mistakes are being made?
I always looked at this site as a well oiled machine. I was pround to be a part of it.
Right now I am embarrassed by the way some mods and admins have acted in this thread. The owner should be also. The actions are a direct representation of them.
Not good business in any sense.
blut wump said:
That's what bunch of you are trying to accieve, rather than act mature and stop whining about green dots, and not having change to whore it like you did in the past. You can still give out K, give out 10% hits if you worry your normal 110% hits will suck you dry. You have 7544231 points, Mr Db even more. Reality check fellows. Real life balls are more important than online balls.
slat1 said:
The answer is obvious. Karma inflation is a problem only because it reduces the value of karma for sale for $$. The change in the karma system and the simultaneous introduction of the Casino are attempts to drive us to the Karma Store to purchase more karma.
And all the complaints probably just reinforce in George's mind the idea that karma is important to the members. Whether it is important enough to send us to the store with credit card in hand remains to be seen. I don't think that the several hundred people who are regular members who visit EF and post on a daily basis are that stupid. I can only assume that the high-profile, loyal customers are being sacrificed in a ploy to hook a larger number of silent, stupid people who will become addicted to the Casino.
slat1
New member
perkele said:
Interesting coming from you:
George Spellwin 16-Jun-2006 11:17 AM perkele "I don't look like the below picture anymore". Probably because it's a man.
If you took the time to reread this thread you would see that you have missed the point.
Right now there is no communication. If GS addressed what his plans were people could move on.
Beyond the lack of communication people are let down with the actions of admins/mods like yourself.
You are part of the problem.
I'll just throw in my two cents here.
Since the karma changes, I hit maybe 1-2 people per day, and I only hit for 10%. I view my karma now is a limited resource, so I have to use it sparingly. For that reason I set aside a nominal amount for the casino and bookie, and if I run through all of it, I will simply sit on the rest.
It used to be a renewable source. I knew I could lose it ALL in the bookie forum, go negative, but I'd eventually get back up to speed. Now if I lose it all, its gone unless I want to shell out money for it. I'm sorry, but I'd rather go gamble on partypoker or bodog for real money then to spend real money on karma that I can't convert back into real money on the offhand chance I should win.
I used to love logging in to read my k messages, I had many people who I spoke with almost exclusively through k messages.
I used to go bet the max on a whole ton of bookie events some weekends to give me something to watch on TV.
I suppose I just need to get used to the fact that those days are done. I hope the new system works out for everyone.
I'm a lifetime member, and since I am not continually paying money every month I guess I don't get the karma stipend, if so, that would at least give me a renewable source of which I could use to approve my favorite posts.
And karma wasn't all about whoring. I have purchased karma before, I have sold some before, I've donated a lot, I've received donations.
In my opinion, and this is NOT EF BASHING, the karma changes were not very well thought out. Basically whoever came up with them had a goal in mind, and put the tunnel vision glasses on and did eveything they could to get to that goal (stop karma whoring) a secondary goal would be to make some money off of it, but that goal will not be realized, which is why I call it a secondary goal. The first objective was met with flying colors, congratulations, but it came at a cost.
Since the karma changes, I hit maybe 1-2 people per day, and I only hit for 10%. I view my karma now is a limited resource, so I have to use it sparingly. For that reason I set aside a nominal amount for the casino and bookie, and if I run through all of it, I will simply sit on the rest.
It used to be a renewable source. I knew I could lose it ALL in the bookie forum, go negative, but I'd eventually get back up to speed. Now if I lose it all, its gone unless I want to shell out money for it. I'm sorry, but I'd rather go gamble on partypoker or bodog for real money then to spend real money on karma that I can't convert back into real money on the offhand chance I should win.
I used to love logging in to read my k messages, I had many people who I spoke with almost exclusively through k messages.
I used to go bet the max on a whole ton of bookie events some weekends to give me something to watch on TV.
I suppose I just need to get used to the fact that those days are done. I hope the new system works out for everyone.
I'm a lifetime member, and since I am not continually paying money every month I guess I don't get the karma stipend, if so, that would at least give me a renewable source of which I could use to approve my favorite posts.
And karma wasn't all about whoring. I have purchased karma before, I have sold some before, I've donated a lot, I've received donations.
In my opinion, and this is NOT EF BASHING, the karma changes were not very well thought out. Basically whoever came up with them had a goal in mind, and put the tunnel vision glasses on and did eveything they could to get to that goal (stop karma whoring) a secondary goal would be to make some money off of it, but that goal will not be realized, which is why I call it a secondary goal. The first objective was met with flying colors, congratulations, but it came at a cost.
foreigngirl
New member
perkele said:
are you his personal secretary? Cause you act like one for sure.
LOL @ George will post here when he finds time (is he like Bill Gates or some important shark that everyone tries to get ahold of? WE are paying HIM, he needs US, not the other way around). If he cared about his buseness he would have been here long time ago. Its HIS thread asking for OUR oppinions after all.
Lestat said:
I think you got that backwards. Karma whoring in and of itself was not harmful in any way, except that it devalued the karma FOR SALE in the karma store. The primary goal was to make some money off it; stopping karma whoring was the means to that end.
blut wump
New member
I posted this in a thread in C&C. Apologies to anyone objecting to my quoting myself to copy it here.
Here's the original thread, where I hope members make some good suggestions.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6363655#post6363655
Here's the original thread, where I hope members make some good suggestions.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6363655#post6363655
blut wump said:
i know it's a saturday and all and i know most of this place fucking despises me (y'all can suck my dick, btw) but this place has come to a screeching halt. and there are many who are going elsewhere....i imagine it all has to do with karma points, which is kind of ridiculous. i just don't hit anymore, bottom line. i'm not going to pay, in any form, to reward someone's thoughts on a chat board that i'm already paying a membership fee to.blut wump said:
HumanTarget said:
So you're saying my mind is as worthless as this rest of this pirate crew we sail with...
OK- just getting a handle on where you're coming from.
HumanTarget said:
"...and when everyone is special, no one is."
