Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below George, in your PM, you touched on a point that bothers me. You talked about how we (people other than those on the c&c board) can't keep up with the chat-bros. That is true. While c&c is a poplular board, this site is primarily for aas and training information. The anabolic, board should be awarded more so when karma is transfered. I.E. Person A sends Person B karma on the anabolic board and it is worth more than if those same people on the c&c board sent some karma. To all those that will disagree with me, remeber this. Without the anabolic board, NONE of these other boards would be here. The anabolic board is the bread and butter of EliteFitness.
Making changes to how Karma works - we want your feedback.
- Thread starter George Spellwin
- Start date
blut wump
New member
One other thing while we're on this topic of hitting...
One of the ideas of bombs was to enable Plat members to black out a spammer or scammer while waiting for a mod to arrive and terminate him. Often I see posts when I'm waiting to recharge and so am unable to do my duty. Might I suggest that, for red hits only, we are permitted to draw on part of the following day's allowance of hits.
One of the ideas of bombs was to enable Plat members to black out a spammer or scammer while waiting for a mod to arrive and terminate him. Often I see posts when I'm waiting to recharge and so am unable to do my duty. Might I suggest that, for red hits only, we are permitted to draw on part of the following day's allowance of hits.
I think implementing the casino is the way to go - and encourage its use. The house always has the advantage. It's a great way to take back huge amounts of karma.
oh, and Hammy makes excellent points. You can't tell us we're abusing the karma system while at the same time encouraging that abuse. makes no sense.
gjohnson5
New member
the-short-one said:
I thought I dispelled this one...
Noone has gotten 9 mil karma by buying it in the karma store,
Nor has anyone gotten 9mil karma simply by buying a chairman membership.
If this were the case , then I'd have 2x karma then everyone else, and it's obvious that I don't
gjohnson5
New member
gjohnson5 said:
I would also like to clarify and append to the above post. I gave alot of karma away that I purchased with $$$ to Mightymouse69
WHY?
Because I feel that he is a great representative of the site and will point posters in the correct direction. MM should be on top of the food chain, period! I gave karma away to him as I felt that I was decling and not going to be a viable poster here. I didn't want to do a razorguns act and simply use my karms to plat bomb people. I would rather give it away to my man, who I KNOW will use it correctly. This was a great decision and he is now a millionare and my sacrafice has created someone else into the impression that he should be. I'm not sure why he isn't a chairman now...
Anyway,
Purchasing karma or some privledge has not put anyone on top. Why this is even being questioned is mind boggling to me.
My thoughts ...
(1) I always felt that karma was to be given, not horded. It was to go to a post or reply that was informative, supportive, clever or just plain funny. I'd still like to see "pure karma" for just that recognition.
(2) I observed that some posters made huge gains in karma and discovered (duh!) they gambled and won it. That's fun. However, I'd like to see 'chips" of some kind for that, not k.
(3) I also came to the conclusion that very few take a vow of karma poverty and is comfortable without some lower respectable amount. So, I'd like to see karma have a life of one year, then gone. This would make a much more level playing field.
(4) I'd like to see no controls on how much, how many times or to who I give k. If I find 10 posts/replys by one Member that deserve recogniton, I should be able to hit that person again and again.
(1) I always felt that karma was to be given, not horded. It was to go to a post or reply that was informative, supportive, clever or just plain funny. I'd still like to see "pure karma" for just that recognition.
(2) I observed that some posters made huge gains in karma and discovered (duh!) they gambled and won it. That's fun. However, I'd like to see 'chips" of some kind for that, not k.
(3) I also came to the conclusion that very few take a vow of karma poverty and is comfortable without some lower respectable amount. So, I'd like to see karma have a life of one year, then gone. This would make a much more level playing field.
(4) I'd like to see no controls on how much, how many times or to who I give k. If I find 10 posts/replys by one Member that deserve recogniton, I should be able to hit that person again and again.
foreigngirl
New member
I think punishing us for giving K to a post is ridicilus. If so, I am not awarding ANY post ever again. THe AAS board cant catch up to the C&C? So what? What diference does it make? A lot of people from AAS come to post in C&C and a lot of members started out on the training boards and after all questions were answered, they had probably no reason to stay on EF. Well, except staying to have a bit fun on C&C and teh Bookie Forum, and our fun is playing with bombs and karma. GS gave it to us to use it.
If all this continues the way it does, I am seriously considering NOT renewing my plat in August.
If all this continues the way it does, I am seriously considering NOT renewing my plat in August.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
thebigbabboon said:
I was going to say something like this as well, once a member reaches an exhorbitant amount of karma - they need to do good deeds with so much of it. And those who receive these good deeds may then visit more frequently resulting in more use of the site and maybe becoming Plat and its all one nice big happy circle.
Raptorex
New member
Wow, thanks for the props GJ,
I just come here and try to enjoy the fun and meet some good people. I have met some really great ones, like you. However, to be honest, I don't have the stomach to be either a mod here or a chairman, I get bothered to easily by unfairness and people being intentionally hurtful.
I think I am a better mentor, than "official" ef person, but that is the way a chat board should go!
I agree with you, its not about the money, but how you value karma when giving it to others.
Again, I very much appreciate both your kind words and actions.
p.s. George, if you need a Mod on the solutions to hairloss board, count me in.
Thanks again GJ!
I just come here and try to enjoy the fun and meet some good people. I have met some really great ones, like you. However, to be honest, I don't have the stomach to be either a mod here or a chairman, I get bothered to easily by unfairness and people being intentionally hurtful.
I think I am a better mentor, than "official" ef person, but that is the way a chat board should go!
I agree with you, its not about the money, but how you value karma when giving it to others.
Again, I very much appreciate both your kind words and actions.
p.s. George, if you need a Mod on the solutions to hairloss board, count me in.
Thanks again GJ!
gjohnson5 said:
DBBT
New member
i think the entire idea of changing anything negatively per memberrr on this site, such as reducing karma or changing power of it etc, is flat out retarded. People PAY to be on this site and actually like benefits like karma and being able to hit with a higher power. This inflation BS is just that. Karma isn't money, yet people pay for it, lol. The only people that should be complaining about being bombed etc. are non plats, and to cure this they should go plat. Platinum members karma better not be messed with. 
gjohnson5
New member
DBBT said:i think the entire idea of changing anything negatively per memberrr on this site, such as reducing karma or changing power of it etc, is flat out retarded. People PAY to be on this site and actually like benefits like karma and being able to hit with a higher power. This inflation BS is just that. Karma isn't money, yet people pay for it, lol. The only people that should be complaining about being bombed etc. are non plats, and to cure this they should go plat. Platinum members karma better not be messed with.
Well you were in the running for the karma I spent money on...
You just proved to me why not giving that to you was also a good decision...
I don't think that plat member karma needs to be messed with , but I think that you spend more of your time on other boards then just C&C You should be rewarded for that. But you yourself are being penalized for not sitting on C&C and for some reason don't see that.
Peace out man!
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
thebigbabboon said:
I did something like that because of a karma awarding thread. I gifted a plat to someone as the thread suggested and then by today had the karma back anyway from posting. If you post well and people like what they read from you, you do get karma in return.
I hope too many things don't get changed too much either. It took me ~ 2 years to earn the karma I have...slowly. While I do post in C&C, I also enjoy and visit the other forums as well. There is a place here for everyone and I don't think people in one forum (ie; C&C) should be 'penalized' just because that is where they like to post. I hope the karma hit system doesn't get changed too much either as I like the way it works.
I really think the people who post here on EF frequently 'know' who provides quality information - whether someone has alot of karma or not, most of the time I know where to look for good information. whether you have a crown or not, it shouldn't matter as all one needs to do is read the post reply.
I don't have many more suggestions about the cure for karma inflation, sorry.
gjohnson5 said:
I wasn't refering to COTB's. I was refereing to this:
hamstershaver said:
gjohnson5 said:
I agree with your posts on this subject.
Why not create a whole seperate site dedicated to Karma (or its equivalent) and playing games with it? They have to have a "plat-like" membership to join. Create a Casino forum, a Stock market forum, etc., etc. People can use the K (or its equivalent) to purchase things like they do with tokens at arcade establishments. Members with Plat memberships on this site, can play games there without having to buy a membership.
Last edited:
blut wump
New member
Strongly agreed, MM is an asset to the board.
Back to the general discussion...
Firstly, from the moment that one could purchase Karma at the store or the mods with hundreds of thousands of K first decided to approve a post, the idea of Karma representing someone's knowledge or 'vet' status on the board died. Live with it and let's move on.
This leaves us with Karma as something for us to have fun with and George to make money from selling it to us. We'd like to maximize the former, George would like to maximize the latter which, fortunately for us, means accomodating the former.
Maybe we can proceed in this light if no-one takes issue with it. We want to maximize the fun elements of Karma. Everything else is already secondary unless we start again.
In this light, I strongly dislike 1, 6, 9
Back to the general discussion...
Firstly, from the moment that one could purchase Karma at the store or the mods with hundreds of thousands of K first decided to approve a post, the idea of Karma representing someone's knowledge or 'vet' status on the board died. Live with it and let's move on.
This leaves us with Karma as something for us to have fun with and George to make money from selling it to us. We'd like to maximize the former, George would like to maximize the latter which, fortunately for us, means accomodating the former.
Maybe we can proceed in this light if no-one takes issue with it. We want to maximize the fun elements of Karma. Everything else is already secondary unless we start again.
In this light, I strongly dislike 1, 6, 9
blut wump said:
i concur.
Deterass said:
Sure I'm kidding.
I guess I just wrote that paragraph for the hell of it. What does this site say on the mainpage? EliteFitness the Steroid and Bodybuilding Site. I think George seems to agree that is the primary focus of this site. Everything else that goes along with it is gravy. If you would look closely at my previous thread, you would see that I said that without those two main topics, nothing else would be here.
pintoca
New member
paridhm said:Sure I'm kidding.
I particularly think there is no board better than the other or more worthy.
Most of the people posting on Chat came here originally for other reasons (I, for example, came for diet, and spent a long time posting only there). Eventually you notice the human body does not change (unless you count evolution, but that goes beyond our time-window) and you don't need to read the same things all the time, every day.
Now, that is a problem for George, because people come here, learn what they need and go away, but he still needs his traffic... what is the solution? something that changes everyday.
Now, you have to remember this site lives because of Plats and sponsors, to get Plats you need good contents and features, to get sponsors you need good traffic stats.
Ever compared the percentage or Plat members in Chat and in any other boards?
In a nutshell, all boards complement each other, to think of members as "we" or "they" , is the wrong way, we are all part of a single community
iHulk
New member
well put pintoca.
Although the human body can change with a steady diet, training, AAS and/or GH. Anyway, Ihulk's glad u posted that before laying down his own philosophy on the whole karma saga.
There is a false stigma on the site and that is: the more karma you have the more experienced or vet status you have. FALSE! This is where it gets stupid. The karma is supposed to be used for approving or disappoving posts --> not being used as a controlling mechansim and bullying.
So u have people that hang out in the C&C forum, gaining unreal amounts of karma and mostly not contributing to the other "killer app" forums that are the underlying reason George's business plan works -a placed to discuss steriods and body building.
This board exists first and foremost to make a profit. The vehicle that provides profit is the killer app and that is AAS, diet, training, etc.
By nature people get complacent on seeing the same threads day after day and so they expand into other parts of the site (chat forums or gambling or whatever) and thats great, have fun. But this is where a lot of the vets are hanging out most of the time and its too bad because you have newbies in the AAS forum giving out stupid advice to other newbies.
As for all these g-bomb wars, they are completely worthless unless its a source post; other than that these guys just diffuse the next second. I don't think karma matters at all. if you are having a karma battle with someone it should be isolated to the forum in which it took place. Who cares how much karma someone has ... its irrelavent. So change the dynamic of the karma itself. Make it worthless. Meaning it can't be used to bully or whatever it is that peolpe do with it.
Although the human body can change with a steady diet, training, AAS and/or GH. Anyway, Ihulk's glad u posted that before laying down his own philosophy on the whole karma saga.
There is a false stigma on the site and that is: the more karma you have the more experienced or vet status you have. FALSE! This is where it gets stupid. The karma is supposed to be used for approving or disappoving posts --> not being used as a controlling mechansim and bullying.
So u have people that hang out in the C&C forum, gaining unreal amounts of karma and mostly not contributing to the other "killer app" forums that are the underlying reason George's business plan works -a placed to discuss steriods and body building.
This board exists first and foremost to make a profit. The vehicle that provides profit is the killer app and that is AAS, diet, training, etc.
By nature people get complacent on seeing the same threads day after day and so they expand into other parts of the site (chat forums or gambling or whatever) and thats great, have fun. But this is where a lot of the vets are hanging out most of the time and its too bad because you have newbies in the AAS forum giving out stupid advice to other newbies.
As for all these g-bomb wars, they are completely worthless unless its a source post; other than that these guys just diffuse the next second. I don't think karma matters at all. if you are having a karma battle with someone it should be isolated to the forum in which it took place. Who cares how much karma someone has ... its irrelavent. So change the dynamic of the karma itself. Make it worthless. Meaning it can't be used to bully or whatever it is that peolpe do with it.
pintoca said:
blut wump
New member
Bombs given in C&C spilling over to other boards has always been considered undesirable and many wish that a bomb given in C&C would stay there rather than messing with a member's posts site-wide.
As for the rest of it, think of it like joining an online fantasy game. You're always going to see high-level characters around, some benevolant and some less so. To some extent, in C&C, the Karma of C&C-vets helps keep newbs in line while they learn the ropes. In the AAS forum, the mods pounce on crap a lot quicker than in C&C where drama is the norm.
Any bullying should be reported to a mod.
As for the rest of it, think of it like joining an online fantasy game. You're always going to see high-level characters around, some benevolant and some less so. To some extent, in C&C, the Karma of C&C-vets helps keep newbs in line while they learn the ropes. In the AAS forum, the mods pounce on crap a lot quicker than in C&C where drama is the norm.
Any bullying should be reported to a mod.
Deterass
New member
paridhm said:Sure I'm kidding.
lol! Pull your head outta your ass and look a the big picture.
I think George's primary focus is to actually make a profit from the site and one of the ways its done is by plat memberships.Whether it be in the C&C forum or the Anabolic forum it doesn't really matter.
I stumbled across this site looking for supplements back in 2001 and i'm still here supporting the site even though i mostly post in C&C.
Sooooooooo it doesn't make a fuck why we are Plat members just as long as we're supporting the site.
The "we need to be rewarded more because we post in the anobolic forum"(in a third grade voice) is some childish bullshit.
slat1
New member
Disregarding the C&C forum and the people in it is a mistake. I spent time talking to plenty of people in there in regards to AAS, diet, body building competitions etc. There are NPC judges in there, promoters etc.
I for one try not to spend as much time in the AAS board as I used to when I saw things getting out of control in there. You see newbies using large amounts of AAS and you have people encouraging it. When you comment on it a lot of people get pissed and gang up on you. So what is the point.
I spend most of my time in C&C, the picture forum and the ladies forum. Aside from that, I probably get 15 to 20 IM's a day from Elite members on MSN or AIM. I am helping them with their diets etc. I also spend time helping them with personal problems and just encouraging them to work harder for their results. I do it because I like to help people. I don't get any karma for it either..
Like a lot of others I started in the AAS forum and then moved on. It in no way means I have lost my knowledge or have stopped learning.
Further, if George did a quick study of where most of his platinum members came from I bet it would be from C&C, followed by the womens forum. What I am getting at is the Anabolic forum is far from the bread and butter. As a matter of a fact it costs George the most due to the liability of having it.
I truly feel this whole discussion is occuring because of a few people who have a lot of karma that throw it around redding people. We as a community should patrol this. To some extent we do. Probably not enough. The new guys are suffering.
If it was up to me I would not change a thing. I have a decent amount of karma. Its not from gambling. I lost a ton at that. Its not from hosting bookie events. I lost MILLIONS at that. Most of it is from people transfering it to me at the karma store. The smallest amount is from good posts.
Spend time on the site and make good posts and you will make friends. When you make friends your karma grows... its a pretty simple formula. Why change it?
Who has a lot of karma and has a problem with the system?
Is this whole issue as simple as the haves and have nots?
I also feel the arguement that you judge who to trust by their k is not a good one. I read and study posts. That is how I determined my resources for information. I did that from day one. I never looked at people karma.
I for one try not to spend as much time in the AAS board as I used to when I saw things getting out of control in there. You see newbies using large amounts of AAS and you have people encouraging it. When you comment on it a lot of people get pissed and gang up on you. So what is the point.
I spend most of my time in C&C, the picture forum and the ladies forum. Aside from that, I probably get 15 to 20 IM's a day from Elite members on MSN or AIM. I am helping them with their diets etc. I also spend time helping them with personal problems and just encouraging them to work harder for their results. I do it because I like to help people. I don't get any karma for it either..
Like a lot of others I started in the AAS forum and then moved on. It in no way means I have lost my knowledge or have stopped learning.
Further, if George did a quick study of where most of his platinum members came from I bet it would be from C&C, followed by the womens forum. What I am getting at is the Anabolic forum is far from the bread and butter. As a matter of a fact it costs George the most due to the liability of having it.
I truly feel this whole discussion is occuring because of a few people who have a lot of karma that throw it around redding people. We as a community should patrol this. To some extent we do. Probably not enough. The new guys are suffering.
If it was up to me I would not change a thing. I have a decent amount of karma. Its not from gambling. I lost a ton at that. Its not from hosting bookie events. I lost MILLIONS at that. Most of it is from people transfering it to me at the karma store. The smallest amount is from good posts.
Spend time on the site and make good posts and you will make friends. When you make friends your karma grows... its a pretty simple formula. Why change it?
Who has a lot of karma and has a problem with the system?
Is this whole issue as simple as the haves and have nots?
I also feel the arguement that you judge who to trust by their k is not a good one. I read and study posts. That is how I determined my resources for information. I did that from day one. I never looked at people karma.
black sheep
Banned
cranny said:
I agree - Something other than Karma to distinguish the vets in the AAS forum.
slat1
New member
black sheep said:
I think that is a good idea. Maybe you can put their names in gold or something.
In order to achieve what ever is decided the person should be recomended. Then their posts should be looked over in that forum to make sure they are of a certain standard.
This should be something that is earned over time.
I think it should be a process that is taken seriously. New guys and girls will be listening to these people as if they are right about everything.
There should probably be a panel that decides.
slat1 said:
that's a fantastic idea. it would put a lot of trust back into the AAS forums.
black sheep
Banned
Outtlaw said:It's good to know Im not the only one feeling this way. At least now I know Im not off on another plain with my thoughts
Well George? What do you think?
duke of angels
New member
If all we're worried about is people who are abusing the system to raise their Karma isn't it obvious when someone is doing this? Their karma increases drastically over a short period of time or they're getting tons of karma without making many posts and the comments in their karma are bogus. Couldn't an admin just look at a suspect profile and remove their karma? The more elite members and even newer members would notice someone giving bogus information with tons of karma too and allow us to report karma whores... if you think someone's karma is inflated too much just take it away and even things out. This all around fix benefits people with inflated karma because new members like me don't really have much and it certainly doesn't makes sense to lose karma for giving kudos... getting the karma and recognition even for decent posts (rather then only extremely good posts or more then likely extremely good posts which actually help me personally) is what keeps members coming back not the karma itself. High karma just helps me recognize people who have been here longer and have made more quality posts (in theory: they could have bought it all... which confuses me on what karma is really for), but even then I still look at the information they provide critically.
In conclusion my question is: What is karma intended to be for?
1.) If it's meant distinguish long term quality members and supporters of the site the current system is fine with the ability to moderate scammers.
2.) If it's solely meant to earn money for the site by way of donating cash for karma, I could care less what you do with it because it loses intrinsic value at that point. It's basicly cash green dot cash... which I would be more then happy to give away! But somehow I think I would end up with 0 karma because people will be afraid they'll lose their standing in the community and give any in return. Even if they did... I'd probably end up even at best.
Right now is seems like a combination of both... but with these changes it seems more like number 2 which is why my first impression of these changes was negative. Having karma = cash in many ways and having karma = standing in the community really confuses the issue!
In conclusion my question is: What is karma intended to be for?
1.) If it's meant distinguish long term quality members and supporters of the site the current system is fine with the ability to moderate scammers.
2.) If it's solely meant to earn money for the site by way of donating cash for karma, I could care less what you do with it because it loses intrinsic value at that point. It's basicly cash green dot cash... which I would be more then happy to give away! But somehow I think I would end up with 0 karma because people will be afraid they'll lose their standing in the community and give any in return. Even if they did... I'd probably end up even at best.
Right now is seems like a combination of both... but with these changes it seems more like number 2 which is why my first impression of these changes was negative. Having karma = cash in many ways and having karma = standing in the community really confuses the issue!
George Spellwin said:
I've been a Platinum member for quite a while now (years). I've spent a lot of money here and in support of the sponsors. Heck I buy just about anything. LOL. Heck I even bought the personal consultation, which I never received, but that's a discussion for another day, in any event why is my Karma so low then when I have renewed numerous times????
blut wump
New member
While you're here, bro, would you mind voting for me in this other thread?BigRupe said:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484937
Thanks.
slat1
New member
Update:
I started gambling again last week. I promptly lost between a half million and 3/4 million karma.
I also donated 100,000 k to AAP who is in the red.
Quite a few others are donating also.
I am also helping people out with their diets on IM still.
Lots of good gets done with my K. I don't necessarily get it because of the good I have done either.
I started gambling again last week. I promptly lost between a half million and 3/4 million karma.
I also donated 100,000 k to AAP who is in the red.
Quite a few others are donating also.
I am also helping people out with their diets on IM still.
Lots of good gets done with my K. I don't necessarily get it because of the good I have done either.
the only thing i can count on from this site is to bill my debit card every month. i see people who honestly contribute get passed over in a popularity contest, and i see people try and buy their status. l-o-fucking-l. maybe it'll be as cool as Myspace one day. all the kids'll wanna be here......i thought there was a purpose to this site???????blut wump said:
Protobuilder
New member
HumanTarget said:
Isn't it obvious? An enterprising businessman increases his wealth by dangling something out there, making it seem to have value, and people then spend their time and money pursuing it. "It" is karma. Seems simple, and smart, to me.
gotmilk
New member
Slat....above the AG GUYs banner...at the absolute very top of the page. If you can read this post..you will not see it unless you make the page go to the very top.
EF STORE.....VIEW CART.....yOUR ACCOUNT...HELP
Go into your account and it will show the current membership you have.
EF STORE.....VIEW CART.....yOUR ACCOUNT...HELP
Go into your account and it will show the current membership you have.
silverfish
New member
Dammit George!
foreigngirl
New member
George Spellwin said:
HA HA HA!!!!!! Nice slap in the plats face GS!!!!
You are losing my money here, thank you
stuck
New member
I'm not a fan of the new system, but I wasn't a fan of the old system either. I don't post in the C&C board and I don't wager karma in the betting forum.
For those who come here looking for knowledge on steroids, they can only gauge the advice they get based on the respondant's signup date and karma.
I went away for a couple months and came back to see tons of people with millions of karma. Obviously, the system has become watered down. Making it so people just transfer karma when they give it 1) discourages karma giving and 2) simply recirculates the same watered down karma.
The new suggestions for giving karma are "fun", yet they totally contradict the new system which takes karma away from people who give it. Karma really means nothing anymore, so penalizing people who only give it when it's "deserved" does not improve the system.
I vote for putting it back the way it was.
For those who come here looking for knowledge on steroids, they can only gauge the advice they get based on the respondant's signup date and karma.
I went away for a couple months and came back to see tons of people with millions of karma. Obviously, the system has become watered down. Making it so people just transfer karma when they give it 1) discourages karma giving and 2) simply recirculates the same watered down karma.
The new suggestions for giving karma are "fun", yet they totally contradict the new system which takes karma away from people who give it. Karma really means nothing anymore, so penalizing people who only give it when it's "deserved" does not improve the system.
I vote for putting it back the way it was.
The sense of community really took a hit with these changes. George, what cost would you have suffered by leaving the system as it was...
There were reasons why I came to the board in the first place...but CNC is why I stayed...and you have really altered that for the worse.
There were reasons why I came to the board in the first place...but CNC is why I stayed...and you have really altered that for the worse.
swole
Well-known member
I am happy people are speaking up, that's for sure. Naturally, I'm going to be upset about this change, both as a karma leaderboard member and a bookie. My karma lifelines are being cut from both sides. People won't be hitting or betting as much. This makes swole sad.
But this change makes NO sense at all. The point was to stop rapid karma inflation so the little guys can catch up. Well, how are they going to catch up if their karma goes down whenever they give a hit? It's all relative.
But this change makes NO sense at all. The point was to stop rapid karma inflation so the little guys can catch up. Well, how are they going to catch up if their karma goes down whenever they give a hit? It's all relative.
blut wump
New member
Unless there are a lot more features yet to be unveiled, the direction of the site seems to be moving towards trying to make profit from selling Karma to fund the new gambling games. Sadly there have already been suggestions that these are running on a fixed-odds payout system.
Inhibiting hitting cuts right at the very life-blood of C&C. Training boards will be unaffected as probably, too will Diet. The Bookie forum will have a lot less attendence due to paucity of income.
There's been no mention of a stipend for lifers. There's mention of 5000 per month on renewals but what do the lifers get?
On another topic, I never received the 10,000 for top-three on your profile poll.
Inhibiting hitting cuts right at the very life-blood of C&C. Training boards will be unaffected as probably, too will Diet. The Bookie forum will have a lot less attendence due to paucity of income.
There's been no mention of a stipend for lifers. There's mention of 5000 per month on renewals but what do the lifers get?
On another topic, I never received the 10,000 for top-three on your profile poll.
swole said:
I suggested almost year back that only the big hitters (members with over 100K) would have to give out their own points if they wanna "approve" a post. That would have stopped the K whoring.
You think you're sad, how about Gotmojo? It won't take long before he sees his contribution in the Pic forum ain't worth shit. He actually wastes his own time to give porn to a group of freeloaders.
slat1
New member
stuck said:
Sign up date or karma will never be a good way to judge someones knowledge.
Read peoples posts. When someones posts stand out to you start researching their other posts to confirm your feelings.
After that ask other people you trust on the board about that person.
You are dealing with your health. Take your time and do your dudiligence.
I think you will find a lot of the people on this board started out in the AAS forum and have moved on for various reasons.
slat1
New member
swole said:
Exellent post.
Now you can have a new member who may be an HRT doctor. Who is going to give him Karma for a good post? Nobody.
You will have someone with a wealth of knowledge who will have newbie karma. It doesn't make sense.
Further, who would step up and donate their karma to a great contributor like AAP again? I personally donated 100,000 karma to help him out. A lot of others did too.
The new system essentially eliminated all the good will on this board!
stuck
New member
slat1 said:
You've been here long enough to know that people new to either this board or messageboards in general do not know this.
If that wasn't the case, the anabolic board wouldn't have 3 posts on the first page asking the exact same question every day.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I know you're right, but that doesn't change the way it is.
slat1 said:
You're nuts.
I mean, what the FUCK is Karma for, if it's not to encourage people to post good porn or whatever?
Momma gives you a quarter, you can stick in your piggy bank or you can buy a candy bar. (Well, that's just me showing my age again.) But just because the whores aren't going to give you a fucking green dot for doing nothing, NOW you're going to quit the site over it?
Screen door, meet butt.
blut wump
New member
In an environment where everyone is helping everyone else (diet forum, training forum as examples) there's no point hitting someone since you'll be helping them right back a few hours later. Multiple hits almost require that someone loses out unless everyone is even.
The ones needing lots of help have no K to give.
As the man said, there's no longer much, if any, reason to give K at all. We went through this about six pages back.
The ones needing lots of help have no K to give.
As the man said, there's no longer much, if any, reason to give K at all. We went through this about six pages back.
slat1
New member
digger said:
I am not going to quit the site. Elite will still be a good site. I will not be a paying member here though. What distinguished EF from free sites was the fun I had here. All the fun was derived from karma. That fun no longer exists. So I will not pay for a feature that I no longer benefit from.
Its called economics. The way the site is set up now I don't see a benefit for me to go into my pocket.
I will still be on the site. I will still help everyone that PM's me, emails me, and IM's me.
BTW. I am probably crazy. Everyone keeps telling me that.
foreigngirl
New member
I feel the same way. There is limited resources to search and after you've seen and read it, the only thing that was left from the plat was the fun with karma.slat1 said:
In 2 months when my plat expires, I will be joining the low non-plats. Cause right now as I see it - its low life plats too...
So what you're saying is that K dots are now so precious you don't want to spend them -- and you still don't understand why we did this? Your K account now has some value.
Man, it's like saying "I'm not going to buy food, because it costs too much." Yeah, so? That's what money is for.
You guys crack me up. Or maybe you guys are on crack? Something crack-related going on here.
Man, it's like saying "I'm not going to buy food, because it costs too much." Yeah, so? That's what money is for.
You guys crack me up. Or maybe you guys are on crack? Something crack-related going on here.
blut wump
New member
For a while when I was a kid my mom worked at a pop factory. Each week she'd bring home a crate of pop for us and we three kids would get one bottle each for our own aside from any rationing through the week. I used to save mine for Christmas. Come Christmas time, my siblings would have to ask permission to have a bottle of pop and I had my stash which I could dip into at leisure. I was aware that in the grand tally they ended up with more pop than I, since I got little from the Christmastime crates, but I was happy with my policy. I had personal wealth.
I'm not sure quite how pertinent that little story was but it felt appropriate. I'm not feeling Christmassy at this time.
I'm not sure quite how pertinent that little story was but it felt appropriate. I'm not feeling Christmassy at this time.
slat1
New member
digger said:
It may be possible that you do not completely understand why we are doing this.
That is fine. We used to pay to be here.
It seems to me only the mods and admins are big fans of the new system.
Everyone has a different motive and adgenda for being on a site like this. You can't discount anyones opinion. The only difference is our opinion is taking money out of GS's pocket. Actually, those who designed the new system are taking money out of GS's pocket.
If more time was taken to understand that concerns in the original thread about Karma changes this would not have occured.
That could explain some of the posts that have been made.
First off the karma system is NOT working for long term plat members that renew. I demand a recount.
Second I have given away Karma once and recieved it zero times since the new rules, but before I was receiving it daily. BTW thanks to all of you who gave me Karma.
Third I was stuck at 2100 Karma hits for over 3 years for some strange reason, but never worried about it. I gained about 14,000 K hits in last 30 days or less.
Heck I came into this world with nothing and I'll be leaving it with nothing so I'll continue to give away my karma.
I do want to make this point though, while I won't let karma hits define me nor define my limited contributions. Before when I made a comment or reply that helped or encouraged or moved someone that was acknowledged by a generous karma hit and a reply. It personally made me happy to know someone appreciated or was helped by something I contributed. It also gives you the internal satisfaction that you are appreciated.
Now with the changes people won't be able to afford to be generous, the amount of karma given will decrease AND the self fulfillment you once received from the giving of Karma will be greatly diminished.
It will become a vicious cycle.
In any case I will give my Karma away until it's gone after that I'll just PM someone when they say something that is helpful.
I'm not going to buy Karma. I've spent a TON of money on this site, I am STILL owed a consultation that I paid for, and I have supported nearly every sponsor we have. I have supported this site with THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in product purchases, ebook downloads, platinum memberships renewals, book purchases and so on. I've bought and responded to just about every product email George sent me. Most I gave away to family or friends or used myself.
IMHO I deserve the karma because of my generous financial support so I can reward those who are helpful.
But I won't just buy green dots on top of what I already buy that supports the site and makes everyone a little bit richer, it's absurd.
Oh well that's my 2 Karma hits worth
Second I have given away Karma once and recieved it zero times since the new rules, but before I was receiving it daily. BTW thanks to all of you who gave me Karma.
Third I was stuck at 2100 Karma hits for over 3 years for some strange reason, but never worried about it. I gained about 14,000 K hits in last 30 days or less.
Heck I came into this world with nothing and I'll be leaving it with nothing so I'll continue to give away my karma.
I do want to make this point though, while I won't let karma hits define me nor define my limited contributions. Before when I made a comment or reply that helped or encouraged or moved someone that was acknowledged by a generous karma hit and a reply. It personally made me happy to know someone appreciated or was helped by something I contributed. It also gives you the internal satisfaction that you are appreciated.
Now with the changes people won't be able to afford to be generous, the amount of karma given will decrease AND the self fulfillment you once received from the giving of Karma will be greatly diminished.
It will become a vicious cycle.
In any case I will give my Karma away until it's gone after that I'll just PM someone when they say something that is helpful.
I'm not going to buy Karma. I've spent a TON of money on this site, I am STILL owed a consultation that I paid for, and I have supported nearly every sponsor we have. I have supported this site with THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in product purchases, ebook downloads, platinum memberships renewals, book purchases and so on. I've bought and responded to just about every product email George sent me. Most I gave away to family or friends or used myself.
IMHO I deserve the karma because of my generous financial support so I can reward those who are helpful.
But I won't just buy green dots on top of what I already buy that supports the site and makes everyone a little bit richer, it's absurd.
Oh well that's my 2 Karma hits worth
digger said:
I don't know who you are, but it implies you're affiliated with the site. My question is this, is that the way you should talk to your customers and consumers? Accussing them of being on crack and implying they are stupid???
I run a fairly large financial services company and I would never talk to any of my customers like that and I'd fire anyone who did.
I pay good money to be here, that I have earned through hard work and financial risk taking, and I certainly don't need to have someone who's service I am paying for using such demeaning language and illustration to voice an opinion.
It wasn't directed at me, but the opinions you insulted reflected my own to a certain degree and just seeing someone affiliated with the site being so cavalier and disrespectful to their paying clients is very discouraging.
Have a little repsect.
digger said:
Your K account has value if you choose to invest real money into it. I'm sorry, but I don't see that happening too often, other than through plat. membership purchases. To try to place a monetary value on something that was more or less a joke from the beginning is going to be difficult, if not impossible.
You're right, nobody is going to stop buying food because it costs too much, but the last I checked we needed food, not green dots.
Finally, I think that part of the reason that people are upset is that they used karma messages like mini PM's. As sort of a way to joke around with your friends. Now that's gone, and they see it as less fun than before. Maybe that's wasn't the intended purpose, but that was the way it evolved.
Maybe a better way to handle this would have been to create two different karma systems. One that has a monetary value, and one that is just "green dots" that people can use like the old karma system. If you really like someone's post you can give them karma that is worth something, if it's just to say hi, you can use the old system.
