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MacDonald on the Neo Cons

Chaucer

New member
Thinking About Neoconservatism
By Kevin MacDonald

Over the last year, there’s been a torrent of articles on neoconservatism raising (usually implicitly) some vexing issues: Are neoconservatives different from other conservatives? Is neoconservatism a Jewish movement? Is it “anti-Semitic” to say so?

The dispute between the neocons and more traditional conservatives — “paleoconservatives” — is especially important because the latter now find themselves on the outside, looking in on the conservative power structure.

Hopefully, some of the venom has been taken out of this argument by the remarkable recent article by neoconservative “godfather” Irving Kristol (“The Neoconservative Persuasion,” Weekly Standard, August 25, 2003). With commendable frankness, Kristol admitted that

“the historical task and political purpose of neoconservatism would seem to be this: to convert the Republican party, and American conservatism in general, against their respective wills, into a new kind of conservative politics suitable to governing a modern democracy.”

And, equally frankly, Kristol eschewed any attempt to justify U.S. support for Israel in terms of American national interest:

“[L]arge nations, whose identity is ideological, like the Soviet Union of yesteryear and the United States of today, inevitably have ideological interests in addition to more material concerns… That is why we feel it necessary to defend Israel today, when its survival is threatened. No complicated geopolitical calculations of national interest are necessary.”

If the US is an “ideological” nation, this can only mean that the motivations of neoconservative ideology are a legitimate subject of intellectual inquiry.

For example, it is certainly true that the neocons’ foreign policy fits well with a plausible version of Jewish interests, but is arguably only tenuously related to the interests of the U.S. Also, neocons oppose the isolationism of important sections of traditional American conservatism. And neocon attitudes on issues like race and immigration differ profoundly from those of traditional mainstream conservatives — but resemble closely the common attitudes of the wider American Jewish community.

Count me among those who accept that the Jewish commitment of leading neoconservatives has become a critical influence on U.S. policies, and that the effectiveness of the neoconservatives is greatly enhanced by their alliance with the organized Jewish community. In my opinion, this conclusion is based on solid data and reasonable inferences. But like any other theory, of course, it is subject to reasoned discussion and disproof.

We shouldn’t be surprised by the importance of ethnicity in human affairs. Nor should we be intimidated by charges of anti-Semitism. We should be able to discuss these issues openly and honestly. This is a practical matter, not a moral one.

Ethnic politics in the U.S. are certainly not limited to Jewish activism. They are an absolutely normal phenomenon throughout history and around the world.

But for well over half a century, with rare exceptions, Jewish influence has been off-limits for rational discussion. Now, however, as the U.S. acquires an empire in the Middle East, this ban must inevitably fall away.

My views on these issues are shaped by my research on several other influential Jewish-dominated intellectual and political movements, including the Boasian school of anthropology, Freudian psychoanalysis, the Frankfurt School of Social Research, Marxism and several other movements of the radical left, as well as the movement to change the ethnic balance of the United States by allowing mass, non-traditional immigration.

My conclusion: Contemporary neoconservatism fits into the general pattern of Jewish intellectual and political activism I have identified in my work.

I am not, of course, saying that all Jews, or even most Jews, supported these movements. Nor did these movements work in concert: some were intensely hostile to one another. I am saying, however, that the key figures in these movements identified in some sense as Jews and viewed their participation as in some sense advancing Jewish interests.

In all of the Jewish intellectual and political movements I studied, there is a strong Jewish identity among the core figures. All center on charismatic Jewish leaders—people such as Boas, Trotsky and Freud— who are revered as messianic, god-like figures.

Neoconservatism’s key founders trace their intellectual ancestry to the “New York Intellectuals,” a group that originated as followers of Trotskyite theoretician Max Schactman in the 1930s and centered around influential journals like Partisan Review and Commentary (which is in fact published by the American Jewish Committee). In the case of neoconservatives, their early identity as radical leftist disciples shifted as there began to be evidence of anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union. Key figures in leading them out of the political left were philosopher Sydney Hook and Elliot Cohen, editor of Commentary. Such men as Hook, Irving Kristol, Norman Podhoretz, Nathan Glazer and Seymour Martin Lipset, were deeply concerned about anti-Semitism and other Jewish issues. Many of them worked closely with Jewish activist organizations. After the 1950s, they became increasingly disenchanted with leftism. Their overriding concern was the welfare of Israel.

By the 1970s, the neocons were taking an aggressive stance against the Soviet Union, which they saw as a bastion of anti-Semitism and opposition to Israel. Richard Perle was the prime organizer of Congressional support for the 1974 Jackson-Vanik Amendment which angered the Soviet Union by linking bilateral trade issues to freedom of emigration, primarily of Jews from the Soviet Union to Israel and the United States.

Current key leaders include an astonishing number of individuals well placed to influence the Bush Administration: (Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, I. Lewis Libby, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, David Wurmser, Abram Shulsky), interlocking media and thinktankdom (Bill Kristol, Michael Ledeen, Stephen Bryen, John Podhoretz, Daniel Pipes), and the academic world (Richard Pipes, Donald Kagan).

As the neoconservatives lost faith in radical leftism, several key neocons became attracted to the writings of Leo Strauss, a classicist and political philosopher at the University of Chicago. Strauss had a very strong Jewish identity and viewed his philosophy as a means of ensuring Jewish survival in the Diaspora. As he put it in a 1962 Hillel House lecture, later republished in Leo Strauss: Political Philosopher and Jewish Thinker:

“I believe I can say, without any exaggeration, that since a very, very early time the main theme of my reflections has been what is called the ‘Jewish ‘Question’.”

Strauss has become a cult figure—the quintessential rabbinical guru with devoted disciples.

While Strauss and his followers have come to be known as neoconservatives — and have even claimed to be simply “conservatives”— there is nothing conservative about their goals. This is most obviously the case in foreign policy, where they are attempting to rearrange the entire Middle East in the interests of Israel. But it is also the case with domestic policy, where acceptance of rule by an aristocratic elite would require a complete political transformation. Strauss believed that this aristocracy would be compatible with Jewish interests.

Strauss notoriously described the need for an external exoteric language directed at outsiders, and an internal esoteric language directed at ingroup members. In other words, the masses had to be deceived.

But actually this is a general feature of the movements I have studied. They invariably frame issues in language that appeals to non-Jews, rather than explicitly in terms of Jewish interests. The most common rhetoric used by Jewish intellectual and political movements has been the language of moral universalism and the language of science—languages that appeal to the educated elites of the modern Western world. But beneath the rhetoric it is easy to find statements expressing the Jewish agendas of the principle actors.

For example, anthropologists under the leadership of Boas viewed their crusade against the concept of “race” as, in turn, combating anti-Semitism. They also saw their theories as promoting the ideology of cultural pluralism, which served perceived Jewish interests because the U.S. would be seen as consisting of many co-equal cultures rather than as a European Christian society.

Similarly, psychoanalysts commonly used their theories to portray anti-Jewish attitudes as symptoms of psychiatric disorder.

Conversely, the earlier generation of American Jewish Trotskyites ignored the horrors of the Soviet Union until the emergence there of state-sponsored anti-Semitism.

Neoconservatives have certainly appealed to American patriotic platitudes in advocating war throughout the Middle East—gushing about spreading American democracy and freedom to the area, while leaving unmentioned their own strong ethnic ties and family links to Israel.

Michael Lind has called attention to the neoconservatives’ “odd bursts of ideological enthusiasm for ‘democracy’”— odd because these calls for democracy and freedom throughout the Middle East are also coupled with support for the Likud Party and other like-minded groups in Israel that are driven by a vision of an ethnocentric, expansionist Israel that, to outside observers at least, bears an unmistakable (albeit unmentionable) resemblance to apartheid South Africa.

These inconsistencies of the neoconservatives are not odd or surprising. The Straussian idea is to achieve the aims of the elite ingroup by using language designed for mass appeal. War for “democracy and freedom” sells much better than a war explicitly aimed at achieving the foreign policy goals of Israel.

Neoconservatives have responded to charges that their foreign policy has a Jewish agenda by labeling any such analysis as “anti-Semitic.” Similar charges have been echoed by powerful activist Jewish organizations like the ADL and the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

But at the very least, Jewish neoconservatives like Paul Wolfowitz, who were deeply involved in pushing for the war in Iraq, should frankly discuss how their close family and personal ties to Israel have affected their attitudes on US foreign policy in the Middle East.

Wolfowitz, however, has refused to discuss this issue beyond terming such suggestions “disgraceful.”

A common argument is that neoconservatism is not Jewish because of the presence of various non-Jews amongst their ranks.

But in fact, the ability to recruit prominent non-Jews, while nevertheless maintaining a Jewish core and a commitment to Jewish interests, has been a hallmark—perhaps the key hallmark—of influential Jewish intellectual and political movements throughout the 20th century. Freud’s commented famously on the need for a non-Jew to represent psychoanalysis, a role played by Ernest Jones and C. G. Jung. Margaret Mead and Ruth Benedict were the public face of Boasian anthropology. And, although Jews represented over half the membership of both the Socialist Party and the Communist Party USA at various times, neither party ever had Jews as presidential candidates and no Jew held the top position in the Communist Party USA after 1929.

In all the Jewish intellectual and political movements I reviewed, non-Jews have been accepted and given highly-visible roles. Today, those roles are played most prominently by Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld whose ties with neoconservatives go back many years. It makes excellent psychological sense to have the spokespeople for any movement resemble the people they are trying to convince.

In fact, neoconservatism is rather unusual in the degree to which policy formulation — as opposed to implementation — is so predominantly Jewish. Perhaps this reflects U.S. conditions in the late 20th century.

All the Jewish intellectual and political movements I studied were typified by a deep sense of orthodoxy—a sense of “us versus them.” Dissenters are expelled, usually amid character assassination and other recriminations.

This has certainly been a feature of the neocon movement. The classic recent example of this “We vs. They” world is David Frum’s attack on “unpatriotic conservatives” as anti-Semites. Any conservative who opposes the Iraq war as contrary to U.S. interests and who notes the pro-Israeli motivation of many of the important players, is not to be argued with, but eradicated. “We turn our backs on them.” This is not the spirit out of which the Anglo-American parliamentary tradition was developed, and in fact was not endorsed by other non-Jewish pro-war conservatives.

Jewish intellectual and political movements have typically had ready access to prestigious mainstream media channels, and this is certainly true for the neocons. The anchoring by the Washington Post of the columns of Charles Krauthammer and Robert Kagan and by the New York Times of William Safire's illustrates this. But probably more important recently has been the invariable summoning of neoconservatives to represent the “conservative” line on the TV Networks. Is it unreasonable to suppose that this may be somewhat influenced by the famously heavy Jewish role in these operations?

Immigration policy provides a valuable acid test for the proposition the neoconservatism is actually a vehicle for perceived Jewish ethnic interests. I believe I have been able to demonstrate that pro-immigration elements in American public life have, for over a century, been largely led, funded, energized and organized by the Jewish community [PDF file]. American Jews have taken this line, with a few isolated exceptions, because they have believed, as Leonard S. Glickman, president and CEO of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, has bluntly stated, “The more diverse American society is the safer [Jews] are.” Having run out of Russian Jews, the HIAS is now deeply involved in recruiting refugees from Africa.

When, in the middle 1990s an immigration reform movement arose amongst American conservatives, the reaction of the neoconservatives ranged from cold to hostile. No positive voice was permitted on the Op-Ed page of the Wall Street Journal, by then a neoconservative domain. (Perhaps significantly, a more recent exception has been a relatively favorable review of the anti-illegal immigration book Mexifornia— whose author, the military historian Victor Davis Hanson, has distinguished himself by the extreme hawkishness of his views on the Middle East.) The main vehicle of immigration reform sentiment, National Review, once a bastion of traditional conservative thought, was quite quickly captured by neoconservatives and its opposition to immigration reduced to nominal.

Prior to the post-9/11 U.S. invasion of the Middle East, this suppression of the immigration reform impulse among conservatives was probably the single most important contribution of the neoconservatives to the course of U.S. history.

It may yet prove to be the most disastrous.

http://www.vdare.com/misc/macdonald_neoconservatism.htm
 
I'll post more on the actual article later, but has anyone noticed that neocons always look grouchy?
 
Incocnsistencies and hsitorical manipulations of the truth abound.

Karl Marx adhred to just about zero Jewish principles, in fact lied about being Jewish to get into a lot of busiensses closed to Jews.

Communism was of jewish origins. Soviet Communism was implemented by Lenin, not a Jew.

Freud has been across the board disproven, and really can't be titled Father of anything other than cocaine addiction.

Yawn. Another take by a disgruntled outsider with an ax to grind.

Comparisons to South africa are interesting...notice he didn;t say anything about the surrounding areas.

Israel as an apartheid state? Arabs have more rights in Israel than in Saudi Arabia, to say nothing of women.

None of this stuff is written for an audience that actually is invovled - or ever will be involved - with any policy making.

Interesting though, if you dropped out of school in 9th grade.
 
...

A very good read.... funny, I made it through five years of college and I actually found it interesting.

Must be the racist, anti-semite in me....
 
necon=zionism, zionism=neocon. 2thick Good point about people being to lazy to read this, they will read one paragraph and just asume this is some racist bull. As long as we have American idol and Survivor who needs to worry about reallity.
 
The genius lies in the fact that the system is designed so as not to be understandable by the dumb and dumber average American.
 
Re: LOL

Milo Hobgoblin said:
Of course... to question ANY of this makes one a racist and an anti semite.

No it doesn;t.

This stuff is low level garbage. I already responded to it without any name calling.
 
...

LOL Low level garbage because you didnt see it on FOX news network? Typical media lemming.

Most of the problems we have in the middle east are a direct result of years os SUCKING ISREALS DICK!

You have to be Hellen fucking Keller to not see that.
 
Re: ...

Milo Hobgoblin said:
LOL Low level garbage because you didnt see it on FOX news network? Typical media lemming.

Most of the problems we have in the middle east are a direct result of years os SUCKING ISREALS DICK!

You have to be Hellen fucking Keller to not see that.

This is funny.

If you read my first response I didn't really make too much of the "source". I pointed out some of the historical inconsistencies and logical shortcomings in the article.

Oddly, and in spite of your posturing in previous posts about name calling, you've basically resorted to insults, rather than addressing the legitimate and non-inflammatory points I made earlier in this thread.

Your post above is "I'm right, you;re wrong". Breathtaking. Can you comment on ANYTHING I posted?

What grade level do you want to have this discussion at?
 
...

... lets see you take a bunch of sentences out of context... "claim" their historically inconsistent without any proof... other than your opinion and your thoughts on dime store psychology.. then discount the entire article.


Seems more like you're the one jumping to conclusions.

Your comment about Isreal not being an Aparthied state is ridiculous. You imply it isnt simply because Arabs have more rights than in Saudi thats its not a segregated state? Even your sheeple news gives daily reports of the ethnic struggles and completely disparate living conditions!

Thats about the same thing as saying the son of Sam isnt a serial killer because Jeffrey Dahmer killed more people...

no Isreal may not be "as segregated" as South Africa once was... but it sure as hell is segregated.

oh and lets talk about the surrounding nations of South Africa??? Eternal civil war.. Slaughtering whites to reclaim land... ultra corrupt governments. Mass rapes.

And Soviet communism whether implemented by Lenin or Mickey fucking Mouse is STILL a Jewish idea at heart and pactice.. semantic differences may exist... but communism is communism. period.

Oh and backing up the idea that Freud's psychology was at its core, flawed only SUPPORTS the underlying theories of the article and the ideals of people who accept it.
 
Good thing I'm a neocon for when we enslave all of you for our biddings. I will let you on a little secret. Most of us are closet gays so watch out when we take over because you may become our man bitch.
 
Re: ...

Milo Hobgoblin said:


Your comment about Isreal not being an Aparthied state is ridiculous. You imply it isnt simply because Arabs have more rights than in Saudi thats its not a segregated state? Even your sheeple news gives daily reports of the ethnic struggles and completely disparate living conditions!



Comparisons to South Africa are stooopid. here's why

How do you reconcile Israel's second class treatment of its Arab citizens with the conditions in the surrounding area? Do you even try? Do you think that the conditions surrounding South Africa and Israel are the same? or ever were?

The places where the reclaiming of white land are occurring are not directly neighboring South Africa. Even if they were, you miss the point again: South Africa's neighbors are not invading or attacking it - their struggles are internal.

Do you think that makes a difference?

Here's "Geopolitics 101": There will be no peace in the Middle east until there are democracies in the middle east. Monarchies and theocracies (like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, formerly Iraq etc.) and every other Muslim country in the region cannot ever achieve peace - simply put, the people DO NOT have power.

Whereas Arabs may be second class citizens in Israel, they have some rights. They don't have any in other Muslim countries. Israel is not keeping them down - they are giving them more rights than they get anywhere else.



no Isreal may not be "as segregated" as South Africa once was... but it sure as hell is segregated.

See above. Tell me about all the invasions of South Africa by surrounding nations.


oh and lets talk about the surrounding nations of South Africa??? Eternal civil war.. Slaughtering whites to reclaim land... ultra corrupt governments. Mass rapes.

Sad all around. But none of them are invading South Africa or using terror against it regualrly. So it's apples and oranges, for the fourth time.


And Soviet communism whether implemented by Lenin or Mickey fucking Mouse is STILL a Jewish idea at heart and pactice.. semantic differences may exist... but communism is communism. period.

OK. So Soviet Communism was the same under Lenin, Stalin, Khruschev and Gorbachev? Good one.

Chinese, Soviet, Cuban, Romanian and North Korean Communism are all the same? LOL good one again.

Communism is known not to work. But the ruling party dictates how brutal it is. No Jew has ever ruled a Communist state, and the idea of Socialism is a lot older than Marx.

I don't even really know what your point was with that. Blaming Marx or Trostksy for what Lenin and Stalin did makes as much sense as blaming you for the Kobe Bryant arrest.



Oh and backing up the idea that Freud's psychology was at its core, flawed only SUPPORTS the underlying theories of the article and the ideals of people who accept it.

Right. Bullshit begets bullshit. An amazing concept that can justify anything..
 
Re: Again

Milo Hobgoblin said:
more rhetoric.

but its time for me to go to the gym so Ill argue with you more later on.

have a good workout.

By the way there is very little rhetoric in my answer. Very little. I suspect you just don't know the difference.
 
"Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous."

Point being that you present ideas with no real substance. The real world does not match what you write.

and I will have a good workout. Thanks.
 
Milo Hobgoblin said:
"Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous."

Point being that you present ideas with no real substance. The real world does not match what you write.

and I will have a good workout. Thanks.

Yawn. Respond if you want. I laid it our for you.
 
Milo Hobgoblin said:
"Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous."

Point being that you present ideas with no real substance. The real world does not match what you write.

and I will have a good workout. Thanks.

He lays out his arguments in a well structured manner. Obviously, his responses are over your head.

The point is that jews worry more about not upsetting their mothers than they do about controlling the world. That is why jews are successful. It is because their mothers make them feel so guilty if they fail. And its because they are successful that they find their way to positions of political influence. Anyone with money can do the same thing any jew does.

Here is the simple equation: Work hard --> make money --> donate money to republican or democratic party --> you get what you want. (its not that complicated)

Trust me on this one, non jews dont wake up in the morning thinking of ways to give jews power. Jews work for it. And in a free society that is the way it is supposed to work.

As for some link between jews and communism, i think there have been jews who have agreed with that philosphy. There have also been great jewish baseball players, and great jewish boxers, and even great jewish basketball players. THe point being it doesnt represent the majority of jews.

Most jews are not neocons. In fact, most jews wouldnt even know what that was. Personally, that term has NEVER come up in any conversation i have been in and i am involved in politics to a degree. Most jews are liberal. Personally that annoys me because i am more conservative. But it just goes to show that there is no one way of thought amongst all jews.

However, i do find it flattering that so many non jews spend so much time worrying about jews when we represent such a small minority of the world.
 
primetime21 said:


Perhaps the author of that aricle and chaucer did. because the article refers to jews and not to zionists.

Well, that's anopther funny thing - people are having to defend stuff that they didn't write and likely don't even understand.

So much for original thought.
 
...

I nor anyone else believes that article was referring to everyday walkabout jews like Primtime21, I do agree that most are liberal.. at least the ones I know and went to college with.
The main point of my arguement was referring to the state of Israel and Zionist jews... thats how I "read and understood" the article. I do beleive that they exert a stong influence on American politics and that the best Interest of the zionist state and NOT the US are their primary interest.
I will never agree with Matt the the problem with the middle east is their "lack of democracy" I think the problems they have are cultural and religious and even IF they were democratic the religious and cultural influencs on their government would still creat the same problems they have now.
But the biggest problem WE have with the middle east is Isreal and the problems that supporting them is causing us.

I also strongly beleive that had we not supported Isreal the way we do thing like 9/11 would have never happened.

Why do you think there were many reports of Jews cheering (and NO Im not referring to everyday American Jews) when the towers fell? Isreal knew full well what support that would garner for them.

If you somehow gathered that Im an anti semite from that... oh well I guess I am. But your definition of an anti semite is a little twisted. Im anti Isreal... and there are plent of Jews who have never stepped foot on Isreali soil nor care to.

We can both get into a battle and start citing sources... and we'll both attack each others source as being anti semetic or Neo-Conservative. I guess that part will never change.

And as long as Zionist exert such strong influence over mass media... then people who rely on Mainstream Meida as their main news source will never know the whole story... theywill only know the "Pro Isreal... Pro Zionist" side.


and Primetime21 ... sorry if I offended you. I really dont think most American Jews know or care about any of this.
 
none of this is offensive. At times its comical in its generalities. The author of the article used the term jews. Now, he is either ignorant or is "anti-semitic." Because if it wasnt a mistake then it was an attempt to paint jews in a bad light. While i disagree with the likes of you, 2thick, hengst etc, i do not think any of you are racist (if that matters), but i do think your comments can be seen as racist by those who dont fully understand the context in which you speak. A laymen reading your posts could unreasonably construe your statements to mean that jews are the cause of the problems in the US.

But back to the subject at hand. There are definitely "zionists" in america who care more for israel than the US. But can't that be said of 90 percent of all causes in america? most environmentalists could care less about america. Most pro-muslim groups could care less about america as well. They have their agendas and thats all.

I am not quite sure how anyone defines zionism. to me it means being in favor of the state of israel. I am in favor of israel, but wouldnt consider myself a "zionist." And there are millions of non-jews who are in favor of israel, but they wouldnt call themselves "zionists." Those jews listed in that article are pro-israel, but you, hengst or the author cannot know that these guys look out for israel over america. It would be the same as me presuming you were an anti-semite because you are anti-israel.

Any american jew i have ever spoken to (even the most "zionistic" jews) love america. And have no desire to go to israel. So don't get the impression that "zionists" are somehow wanting america to do things against its own safety for the sake of saving israel.
 
I think that the Israel bashing is not necessarily anti-semitic. We all know how well organized Israel is, they see what people are saying about them on the internet. That gives them the ability to guide their pr campaigns, they know what obstacles and objections they have to overcome. So the criticism that they receive on the internet can only help them.
 
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