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Low volume training while on juice?

R

roids4life

New member
Hello guys, I'm going to start my cycle in two weeks time hopefully.
However, I have issues about training while juicing. I usually train high volume 8-12 reps x 3 sets and sometimes 4 sets.

Two weeks ago I started MAX OT program which is low volume training. Most of my close friends started telling me that I'm growing really fast when I started MAX OT. However, I didn't really notice any noticeable gains, the workouts were very short, about 45mins, but I still got a good pump, except for legs day.

So my question is when I start my cycle should I continue MAX OT low volume training, or should I do a high volume training?

The problem is when I do low volume training when on cycle I feel as I'm wasting my time and money, because I feel that I could gain more mass when I'm doing a high volume program, since high volume worns me out faster than low volume training.

I want to get the most out of this cycle, I don't mind doing a high volume or low volume training, but I prefer low volume since I can lift more and I don't stay in the gym for so long.

What do you guys think is better when on cycle, some people say take the advantage of recovering fast and go for high volume training. But others say when I'm on low volume training I grow more..

Its really frustrating can you guys give me some advice on weather it makes a difference or not and weather I should train more when on cycle?

Thank you in advance
 
A lot of the biggest guys I know of are doing low volume, high intensity, high frequency training. I personally love it.

Remember, what you are losing in volume is being more than made up for in frequency and intensity.
 
Your in a tough little predicament. I've been stuck there before, not knowing which really works better for you and not wanting to take a risk at trying something new. We can't really tell you what's going to work best for YOU, that one is for you to figure out. I wouldn't too much emphasis on what your friends said, very rarely will you see changes in two weeks of a new program, and if there are changes they're going to only be slight enough that only you will notice. Nobody lifts for two weeks and starts "growing fast". Considering how soon you'll be cycling I'd go with what you know. I reccomend training high volume, if its been working all this time then why try to fix it? Give low volume another try after cycle when you have more time to fully evaluate its effects on your body.

You'll grow with either type.

High volume, low intensity, high frequency works best for me. 4 sets for large groups, 3 for small, 6-10 rep range, ~2min rest between sets, each muscle group hit 2x a week.
 
I don't understand why you would change training when on cycle.. what works for you off with work better when you go on.

if you haven't figured out what works then you shouldn't be wasting gear yet. thats why training natty is so important.

it would be like going shark fishing in your neighborhood pond. its not gonna work whether you use the proper bait or you don't.
 
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Cipp21 said:
Your in a tough little predicament. I've been stuck there before, not knowing which really works better for you and not wanting to take a risk at trying something new. We can't really tell you what's going to work best for YOU, that one is for you to figure out. I wouldn't too much emphasis on what your friends said, very rarely will you see changes in two weeks of a new program, and if there are changes they're going to only be slight enough that only you will notice. Nobody lifts for two weeks and starts "growing fast". Considering how soon you'll be cycling I'd go with what you know. I reccomend training high volume, if its been working all this time then why try to fix it? Give low volume another try after cycle when you have more time to fully evaluate its effects on your body.

You'll grow with either type.

High volume, low intensity, high frequency works best for me. 4 sets for large groups, 3 for small, 6-10 rep range, ~2min rest between sets, each muscle group hit 2x a week.
Click to expand...

I use to do High volume, high intensity. I didn't really like it..
 
ceo said:
A lot of the biggest guys I know of are doing low volume, high intensity, high frequency training. I personally love it.

Remember, what you are losing in volume is being more than made up for in frequency and intensity.
Click to expand...

Sounds like I'm going to go with this type of training. However, is MAX OT considered high intensity and high frequency training?
 
I love high volume training. But I still throw in 1 exercise that I do lower reps and try to be as explosive as I can be.
 
I don't know if you are ready for DC Training yet. Max OT is more of a higher intensity, moderate volume, lower frequency (each body part once a week), If I recall correctly. It's a decent program. If you are doing it and already noticing results (if you are progressing as the program says you should be) then I wouldn't change mid-stream.
 
burnthiscorpse said:
With juice....if you're into the BB'ing look then you want to go high volume, lots of sets with 15+ reps and lighter weight.
Click to expand...

not me. I stayed pretty much the same year after year doing that.

What works for one person won't always work for another. Or it may work, but not as well as something else.

I got my best results doing DC Training, but I had been BBing for years and was stagnating on many other training methods/styles/programs.

Plus, high volume training lead to more injuries for me than low volume, high intensity training has.
 
ceo said:
I don't know if you are ready for DC Training yet. Max OT is more of a higher intensity, moderate volume, lower frequency (each body part once a week), If I recall correctly. It's a decent program. If you are doing it and already noticing results (if you are progressing as the program says you should be) then I wouldn't change mid-stream.
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Bro I can't seem to find a program called DC. I found one on bodybuilding . com but im not sure if that's the one you are talking about, is it?
 
By the way guys if I'm doing a high volume training, I'm either going to buy a personal training program from jeff sied website or buy membership in greg plitt's website and follow his routine. I know if it works for him it doesn't mean that it will work for me, but I think its better than making my own routine or looking for some crappy routine on the net.
 
burnthiscorpse said:
No. its not. I dont mean using girly weights. Go youtube Rich Piana who does lighter weights and higher volume. Tell meif he is going for endurance.
Click to expand...

Bro that guy is sick, I have seen him before.
Anyway I read all about DC training and It sounds amazing.
Im definitely going to give it a try as soon as I start my cycle of Test prop and Primo! :D
 
Guys whoever sees this can you tell me if this is a good pct for primo and test prop cycle for 8 weeks. (I know primo should be run for more but at the moment i cant)
PCT week after last pin;

day1-18 clomid @100mgs
day1-18 nolvadex @ 40mgs
day18-36 clomid @50mgs
day18-36 nolvadex @20mgs

I have armidex on hand and I was wondering can I use it from the beginning of the cycle? or should I have to wait to see if gyno appears?(dont want to take the risk)
 
roids4life said:
ah crap bro.. :l so I shouldn't do it..
What can i do instead haha..
Click to expand...

Don't buy a program, if you really need help making one head over to the lifting section and check out a few there. It's stuff like that which makes me question your experience level and whether or not you should really be looking into gear. How long have you really been lifting?

Btw your PCT is way old school.
50/50/50/50mg Clomid
Unleashed and Post Cycle Combo
Forma Stanzol (5 pumps am/ 5 pumps pm)

Run Arimidex from day one, better to play it safe than sorry
 
I forget who said this but it was one of the older pros speaking on low/moderate volume training; "Your muscles do not respond to a weight, they respond to failure." He was basically stating that extremely heavy weight is not needed to induce a state of muscular hypertrophy and that as long as the exercise is performed to failure the muscle will respond(grow) accordingly.
 
If you're going to buy a routine to follow then I'd suggest you check out Wendler 5/3/1 as results show it seems to work. But if you don't have something as basic as a routine down that works for you then you don't really know your body too well since you haven't figured out what training style you best respond to. I'd have to agree with the thought that you're not ready for gear. Buying another person's plan doesn't guarantee you'll look like them. Good luck.
 
CaliRobK said:
I forget who said this but it was one of the older pros speaking on low/moderate volume training; "Your muscles do not respond to a weight, they respond to failure." He was basically stating that extremely heavy weight is not needed to induce a state of muscular hypertrophy and that as long as the exercise is performed to failure the muscle will respond(grow) accordingly.
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Very well said ^^
 
I love how the pros lift in the mag photo shoots with lighter weights (for their size and strength) and make people think you can get as big as them by lifting lighter weight. Most of them got huge by lifting heavy ass weight and doing more powerlifting style routines in their early days.

Most of the biggest guys out there got that big by lifting a lot of heavy ass weight. Ronnie, Johnnie Jackson, Dave Henry, and the list goes on and on. Guys see them lifting lighter weight after they already have 23" arms, 34" thighs and a 55" chest and think that's how they did it.

If you get huge lifting light weights, congratulations on having great genetics. You should get on stage!
 
roids4life said:
ah crap bro.. :l so I shouldn't do it..
What can i do instead haha..
Click to expand...

a basic stronglifts 5x5, followed by the madcow 5x5 variations are great programs. The Wendler 5/3/1 is a great program too. These can all be found online for free.

stronglifts.com has the various 5x5's (even the old madcow versions).

You will have to keep a training log book and journal your lifts. Keep track of everything because BBing is about progression. Lifting 5 lbs more this week than you did last week, or doing one more rep. Progression with weight is more important though.
 
ceo said:
I love how the pros lift in the mag photo shoots with lighter weights (for their size and strength) and make people think you can get as big as them by lifting lighter weight. Most of them got huge by lifting heavy ass weight and doing more powerlifting style routines in their early days.

Most of the biggest guys out there got that big by lifting a lot of heavy ass weight. Ronnie, Johnnie Jackson, Dave Henry, and the list goes on and on. Guys see them lifting lighter weight after they already have 23" arms, 34" thighs and a 55" chest and think that's how they did it.

If you get huge lifting light weights, congratulations on having great genetics. You should get on stage!
Click to expand...

I think my definition of lighter weights is different than many. Most people that think "light weight" lift too light and don't use near enough intensity and usually have zero understanding of mind muscle connection.

You are correct....early on...after the joints and connective tissue is conditioned, heavier weights build the best foundation.
 
ceo said:
DC Training is not for beginners. It's for advanced trainers.
Click to expand...


That's for damn sure. If you can't truly go into the gym giving it 110%, leaving it all on the table, and truly making it "high intensity", then DC training isn't for you and you won't get shit out of it. Most times after my short DC session of 50 minutes to an hour, I leave looking like a finished cardio with my shirt stuck to me from my own sweat...,..especially after finishing that last set of widow makers.
 
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ceo said:
a basic stronglifts 5x5, followed by the madcow 5x5 variations are great programs. The Wendler 5/3/1 is a great program too. These can all be found online for free.

stronglifts.com has the various 5x5's (even the old madcow versions).

You will have to keep a training log book and journal your lifts. Keep track of everything because BBing is about progression. Lifting 5 lbs more this week than you did last week, or doing one more rep. Progression with weight is more important though.
Click to expand...

This right here. More peepe in general have had more success with this type of program then most all of the others combined.
You just cant go wrong with any brand of 5x5 however my fav is still the SL 5x5. Easy, simple and effective. BUT YOU HAVE TO FEED THE PROGRAM.
Meaning you have to eat!
Eat Clean and Eat Big!!
 
+1 on eating big. If you wanna be big, you gotta eat big. So many people grow to 200-220 lbs and stay around that level, wondering why they aren't still growing. They are still eating the same way they ate that got them to 200-220, that's why. It takes a LOT of food to push someone up to 250, 270, 300+ pounds. Everyone is a little different, but generally for most going past a lean 220-230 or so requires eating like it's a full time job.
 
ceo said:
+1 on eating big. If you wanna be big, you gotta eat big. So many people grow to 200-220 lbs and stay around that level, wondering why they aren't still growing. They are still eating the same way they ate that got them to 200-220, that's why. It takes a LOT of food to push someone up to 250, 270, 300+ pounds. Everyone is a little different, but generally for most going past a lean 220-230 or so requires eating like it's a full time job.
Click to expand...

98% of people don't get it. Eating to go from 180 to 200 or maybe 200 to 220 is one thing. That first 20 lb isn't so bad. But when you really want to add mass you have to go above and beyond. Its not easy either. At least IMHO. Getting 5000 clean cals. and having a good macro ratio is a bitch. Its also not cheap. Its not easy to keep it up consistently either. I have a hard enough time(when its time for it) getting 3500 clean calories. I'm a pretty picky eater though too which doesn't help at all.
 
So then after reading this, it seems to me for max growth you could do low volume high intensity for couple of reps and then drop set to high volume and low intensity ? Or maybe I was thinking if having a 6day split hitting body parts two times per week and doing high volume first 3 days and low volume the 2nd ??

Or would you guys think it makes most sense to do high volume for 2montjs then low volume for 2months

To be honest, especially on juice , I feel like I grow both ways , and if diet is in check i don't see why that would change. But I do want the most out of training so curious what u guys think ..
 
Now we're working our way towards the real truth. 80% of bodybuilding is done in the kitchen. Your lifting routine/style will never limit your gains as much as your diet will...

Also if your looking for a good combo try out Layne Nortons PHAT routine, great balance between the two.
 
Cipp21 said:
Now we're working our way towards the real truth. 80% of bodybuilding is done in the kitchen. Your lifting routine/style will never limit your gains as much as your diet will...
Click to expand...

That is the absolute truth. Everybody is going to have their preference and training styles, and what works for them, but in the end your gains all come down to your diet. My training never changes, but my diet does depending on the goal. Obviously when I'm eating a ton, my strength and size shoot through the roof, and when I am dieting down I don't get those kind of results despite training the same.
 
BEAST420 said:
So then after reading this, it seems to me for max growth you could do low volume high intensity for couple of reps and then drop set to high volume and low intensity ? Or maybe I was thinking if having a 6day split hitting body parts two times per week and doing high volume first 3 days and low volume the 2nd ??

Or would you guys think it makes most sense to do high volume for 2montjs then low volume for 2months

To be honest, especially on juice , I feel like I grow both ways , and if diet is in check i don't see why that would change. But I do want the most out of training so curious what u guys think ..
Click to expand...

IMHO, Train heavy. Kill it. That's all good. But you should do a de load period once in a while. SOme do a higher rep, lighter weight, more sets ect break for a week or two for every 8 or 10 weeks trained real heavy. There's a bunch of ways you could do it. The de load period is a must IMHO to keep connective tissue, joints, tendons ect healthy.
 
ceo said:
"Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder...but don't nobody wanna lift no heavy ass weights."

-Ronnie Coleman
Click to expand...

I think if you hanging aroun this section of the forums your looking to lift some heavy ass weights ha. Ronnie Coleman approves
 
burnthiscorpse said:
IMHO, Train heavy. Kill it. That's all good. But you should do a de load period once in a while. SOme do a higher rep, lighter weight, more sets ect break for a week or two for every 8 or 10 weeks trained real heavy. There's a bunch of ways you could do it. The de load period is a must IMHO to keep connective tissue, joints, tendons ect healthy.
Click to expand...

De-loads are ABSOLUTELY necessary. And, IMO, if you are training heavy (as I define heavy) then you would NEED a de-load about every 6-8 weeks or so. Maybe stretching that to 10-12 weeks if you skipped a day here and there.

And OP, don't waste time doing single body part splits 6 fucking days a week if you are going to train balls out heavy. You'll burn out. If you didn't burn out you weren't training heavy enough.

So WTF? I told you to look up the goddamn 5x5 and follow that motherfucker to the T. What's so fucking hard about that? Fuck what you think or feel. It's all about the logbook. If you're beating the logbook every time then you are progressing and you are getting stronger and growing.

I can do a lot of shit and end up sore the next day. I can work on my car, build a fence, dig a ditch, go rock climbing, throw a baseball 500 times. I can get sore in some way doing any of those stupid things, but none of that shit is going to get me huge.

I might get my car running, keep my neighbors dog out of my yard, irrigate my lawn, get to the top of a mountain, and build up a mean curve ball, but I sure as shit ain't gonna get big that way.

I swear it's like ramming my head into a brick wall sometimes trying to help a motherfucker.
 
I only follow my logbook. Im either trying to increase weight or reps from last workout. Even 2.5 lbs or 1 rep is progress in my opinion
 
Can you switch it up depending on how you feel that day? It does it just simply make more sense to do high volume for a wile and then switch to low volume ?
 
Kai green says never to be a weight lifter and you get more out by stretching and contracting with perfect form and lighter weigh...
 
burnthiscorpse said:
Me too.


With juice....if you're into the BB'ing look then you want to go high volume, lots of sets with 15+ reps and lighter weight.
Click to expand...

^this!
Heavy weight , high intensity= injury for me. Took me a few times to learn and nothing is worse than not being able to train at all.
 
gatemoney said:
^this!
Heavy weight , high intensity= injury for me. Took me a few times to learn and nothing is worse than not being able to train at all.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have gotten to see a few times over the past couple years how much I take all this shit for granted while I'm injured for a month here or there.
I'm sitting here right now, been off a month. Possible small tear in the back of my left shoulder. Just started doing kettle bell snatch, clean ect last week. No pain. Still awaiting a MRI. the area doesn't hurt now but doesn't feel right.
 
BEAST420 said:
Kai green says never to be a weight lifter and you get more out by stretching and contracting with perfect form and lighter weigh...
Click to expand...

Kai also fucked a grapefruit, danced nude in front of a bunch of fags and let one of them suck his dick all on camera.

You want to do that too?

Do whatever you want bud, just don't ask for any more advice if you're going to ignore it all.

troll.
 
Fucked a grapefruit? what the fuck i dont even want to search for that
 
-sd- said:
fucked a grapefruit? What the fuck i dont even want to search for that
Click to expand...


hAHAhAHAHAHAHAHahHAahHAhahAHahahAHAHAHAHAahAahaahahAHahAHAHA
HJAHAHAHAHAHAHahAHAhAHAHAHAHAHahHAahHAhahAHahahAHAHAHAHA
HAHAAHAHAHAHahAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAA
hAHAhAHAHAHAHAHahHAahHAhahAHahahAHAHAHAHA
hAHAhAHAHAHAHAHahHAahHAhahAHahahAHAHAHAHAhAHAhAHAHAHAHAHahHAahHA
hAHAhAHAHAHAHAHahHAahHAhahAHahahAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

MY F*CKING GOD! I'm gonna die of laughter man LMFAOOOOOOOOO
 
ceo said:
Kai also fucked a grapefruit, danced nude in front of a bunch of fags and let one of them suck his dick all on camera.

You want to do that too?

Do whatever you want bud, just don't ask for any more advice if you're going to ignore it all.

troll.
Click to expand...

hahhah bro at the end it wasn't me asking questions, it was someone called "beast.."
I already took your advice and I'm surfing through 5x5 programs now.

Thank you for the advice!
 
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roids4life said:
hahhah bro at the end it wasn't me asking questions, it was someone called "beast.."
I already took your advice and I'm surfing through 5x5 programs now.

Thank you for the advice!
Click to expand...

SOrry bro. Been tired and busy lately.
 
NegroPops said:
like you guys have never done anything on a webcam that you're not proud of..
Click to expand...

I mean, I'm not saying I've never danced naked for a bunch of gay guys, but...
 
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