Lose weight and build muscle at same time ?

[solrosenberg]

Is this possible ? It seems you have to add colories to gain weight and muscle, but reduce calories to lose weight. So is it possible to lose weight and build muscle at the same time ?

 

[RachelEFC]

well if you increase lean muscle mass and decrease body fat are you really concerned with losing weight?

 

[Tatyana]

It is possible, especially if you are new to weight training or use steroids.

However, for most people, and if you do it nattie, not as easy.

Probably about 15% of the population can put on muscle when dieting.

I have heard of a few natties that have done it, myself included.

It is all about manipulating insulin and growth hormone (naturally)

 

[ChefWide]

yes... maintainence calories while keeping a laser beam focus on your glucogon/insulin teeter-totter and the one thing that will make or break the attempt, every time, without question:

INTENSITY


No forced adaptation? No joyful neuroendocrine response waterfall. Crap results.

Your training should be a near death experience, every time.

 

[Tatyana]

yes... maintainence calories while keeping a laser beam focus on your glucogon/insulin teeter-totter and the one thing that will make or break the attempt, every time, without question:

INTENSITY


No forced adaptation? No joyful neuroendocrine response waterfall. Crap results.

Your training should be a near death experience, every time.

BINGO

Just to clarify and elaborate, you can lose fat and put on muscle.

The number on the scale may not go down.

Intense training, especially the big compound exercises of squats and deadlifts, trigger natural growth hormone release, as does ghrelin, which is the 'hunger hormone'.

Manipulating insulin means not spiking insulin except when you want to, which is after training, so a protein and simple carb shake is essential.

+ smart training and good recovery time, cause training balls to walls can result in overtraining, which will hamper any progress.

 

[solrosenberg]

My stomach is going down, and I have gained 3 lbs in the past month. I am currently 6' 216 with a 35" waist. My goal is to be 225 and fit back into my 34" jeans. I have been w/o 6 days per week since Nov. I don't do cardio, just don't have the desire to ride a stationary bike or tredmill. I love lifting weights, just hate cardio. My diet is only about 75% clean too. I am going to start working on that more too.

 

[Sim882]

Hey Tat, do you or any other nattie pro use cocoa to spike insulin without too many carbs whilst cutting, or bulking.

It seems to elicit a massive insulin response relative to the amount of carbs and GI (a more extreme discrepeancy than skim milk), and it has other benefits such as increased blood flow (natural nitric oxide), antixoidants, flavanoids etc. I've been having cocoa with stevia pre-workout, and it tastes quite good.

(http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/...urcetype=HWCIT)

Found this from WIKIPEDIA

Health benefits of cocoa consumption
Chocolate and cocoa contain a high level of flavonoids, specifically epicatechin, which may have beneficial cardiovascular effects on health.[5][6][7] The ingestion of flavonol-rich cocoa is associated with acute elevation of circulating nitric oxide, enhanced flow-mediated vasodilation, and augmented microcirculation.[8]

Prolonged intake of flavonol-rich cocoa has been linked to cardiovascular health benefits,[9][10][11] though it should be noted that this refers to plain cocoa and dark chocolate. Milk chocolate's addition of whole milk reduces the overall cocoa content per ounce while increasing saturated fat levels, possibly negating some of cocoa's heart-healthy potential benefits. Nevertheless, studies have still found short term benefits in LDL cholesterol levels from dark chocolate consumption.[12]

Hollenberg and colleagues of Harvard Medical School studied the effects of cocoa and flavanols on Panama's Kuna Indian population, who are heavy consumers of cocoa. The researchers found that the Kuna Indians living on the islands had significantly lower rates of heart disease and cancer compared to those on the mainland who do not drink cocoa as on the islands. It is believed that the improved blood flow after consumption of flavanol-rich cocoa may help to achieve health benefits in hearts and other organs. In particular, the benefits may extend to the brain and have important implications for learning and memory.[13][14]

Foods rich in cocoa appear to reduce blood pressure but drinking green and black tea may not, according to an analysis of previously published research in the April 9, 2007 issue of Archives of Internal Medicine, one of the JAMA/Archives journals.[15]

BINGO

Just to clarify and elaborate, you can lose fat and put on muscle.

The number on the scale may not go down.

Intense training, especially the big compound exercises of squats and deadlifts, trigger natural growth hormone release, as does ghrelin, which is the 'hunger hormone'.

Manipulating insulin means not spiking insulin except when you want to, which is after training, so a protein and simple carb shake is essential.

+ smart training and good recovery time, cause training balls to walls can result in overtraining, which will hamper any progress.

 

[Tatyana]

I have loads of cocoa and cacoa nibs in my diet, however cacoa nibs with goji berries and cocoa with cinnamon, hot water and a bit of soya milk (I like how it tastes better).

I know one other BBer who uses this, and recommends it to the other BBers he preps for contests.

He says due to the high fiber content of cocoa, carbs are minimal.

I think it does depend on the cocoa you use, they are not all the same, some list more carbs, more fat.

I really love Green and Black's Organic Free Trade cocoa

 

[Sim882]

Hi tat,

carbs are very minimal with cocoa, and it has no sugar. In fact, if you look at nutritiondata.com, not only is cocoa loaded with anti's, flavanoids, but its micronutrient density is also quite good (better than most fruit, although < many veggies).

It has however a high II even if low GI.

Given ur an expect on these things, I have read conflicting reports on before bed, whether it is elevated insulin or blood sugar that blunts the secretion of insulin. Whilst normally the 2 go together, the reason I'm asking is I quite enjoy my hot/stevia chocolatate, and wondering whether before bed, given its likely insulin effect but minimal blood sugar effect, whether it will blunt GH nocturnal release

I have loads of cocoa and cacoa nibs in my diet, however cacoa nibs with goji berries and cocoa with cinnamon, hot water and a bit of soya milk (I like how it tastes better).

I know one other BBer who uses this, and recommends it to the other BBers he preps for contests.

He says due to the high fiber content of cocoa, carbs are minimal.

I think it does depend on the cocoa you use, they are not all the same, some list more carbs, more fat.

I really love Green and Black's Organic Free Trade cocoa

 

[Tatyana]

Hi tat,

carbs are very minimal with cocoa, and it has no sugar. In fact, if you look at nutritiondata.com, not only is cocoa loaded with anti's, flavanoids, but its micronutrient density is also quite good (better than most fruit, although < many veggies).

It has however a high II even if low GI.

Given ur an expect on these things, I have read conflicting reports on before bed, whether it is elevated insulin or blood sugar that blunts the secretion of insulin. Whilst normally the 2 go together, the reason I'm asking is I quite enjoy my hot/stevia chocolatate, and wondering whether before bed, given its likely insulin effect but minimal blood sugar effect, whether it will blunt GH nocturnal release

LOL, here we go, science geeking out again.

I love the questions you come up with.

It looks like if it is high GI it will be cleared from the bloodstream quickly, therefore not blunt GH release.



This is what I have found:

Eating a candy bar will release a surge of glucose into your bloodstream and give you what is
often called a “sugar high.” A typical candy bar contains about 30 g (30,000 mg) of simple sugars. A 12-ounce can of regular (not diet) soda contains about 41 g of simple sugars. Simple sugars move rapidly from the digestive system into the bloodstream. The whole candy bar or soda might be absorbed in 20 to 30 minutes.

The Fasting State

You are in the fasting state any time when digestion has been completed. It occurs at night while you sleep. You may also enter the fasting state three hours after you have last eaten. However, if you snack between meals and after dinner you may not re-enter the fasting state while you are awake.

In the fasting state your liver keeps your blood sugar concentration at a normal level by continually releasing small amounts of glucose from the glycogen it has stored after meals or by producing new glucose from protein.

The concentration of the hormone insulin in your blood is the signal which tells the liver whether it needs to dump glucose into the blood. Insulin is released by special cells in the pancreas, the beta-cells, when they sense a rising level of glucose in the blood. When there is no new glucose coming into the blood stream from digestion, little insulin is released.

A normal, healthy liver is also sensitive to insulin levels. The less circulating insulin it senses in the blood stream, the harder the liver will work to put more glucose into the blood. In a healthy person, the liver keeps the fasting blood sugar concentration near 85 mg/dl (4.7 mmol/L) at all times.



The Post-Prandial State

You remain in the fasting state until you eat some food containing carbohydrates. After eating, any pure glucose that was present in your food will be absorbed into your bloodstream within fifteen minutes. Other carbohydrates will require digestion. Those that digest quickly--the so-called "high glycemic carbs" like white flour or sugar--typically take between a half hour and an hour enter your bloodstream. Slower acting carbohydrates like whole grains or pasta may take an hour to two or even, in the case of some hard-wheat pastas, three hours to release their glucose into your blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone#Regulation

Secretion patterns
Most of the physiologically important secretion occurs as several large pulses or peaks of GH release each day. The plasma concentration of GH during these peaks may range from 5 to 35 ng/mL or more. Peaks typically last from 10 to 30 minutes before returning to basal levels. The largest and most predictable of these GH peaks occurs about an hour after onset of sleep.[5] Otherwise there is wide variation between days and individuals. Between the peaks, basal GH levels are low, usually less than 3 ng/mL for most of the day and night.

 

[ChefWide]

BINGO

Just to clarify and elaborate, you can lose fat and put on muscle.

The number on the scale may not go down.

Intense training, especially the big compound exercises of squats and deadlifts, trigger natural growth hormone release, as does ghrelin, which is the 'hunger hormone'.

Manipulating insulin means not spiking insulin except when you want to, which is after training, so a protein and simple carb shake is essential.

+ smart training and good recovery time, cause training balls to walls can result in overtraining, which will hamper any progress.

I like you.

Jon Pall once said to me, 'Yankee, there is no such thing as overtraining: just underfueling and underrecovering'.. now most of us are not sponsored strongmen, so we dont have the luxury of sleeping 12 hours a day and eating every hour and a half when not doing two a days....

the nice part about tossing a wrench in you ghrelin factory with some supracompensation of carbs after a neardeath workout is the added bonus of leptin upregulation/cortisol downregulation. We likee.

As to big compound movements? YEAH! HELL YEAH! stop training body parts and start training movements. You want to ditch most of your individual lever work and look like you can tear the scullcap off a Kodiac Bear? Heavy Snatches. Heavy cleans to push-jerks. Ring work: muscle ups, inverted pikes, levers... you will will cut your training time in half, reduce gluconeogenesis to damn near nada due to very short TUT, increas your EPOC like crazy from the intensity and neuroendocrine reponse to all that power, balance, enriched enviroment and new combinations will lean you out like never before.

whoa.. I used to be a slow lifter, all that mattered was the poundage, now I want so much more and I really think it looks like it....

 

[GUARDIAN]

good info in this thread!

 

[Sim882]

Thanks as always to ur answers to the geeky questions

LOL, here we go, science geeking out again.

I love the questions you come up with.

It looks like if it is high GI it will be cleared from the bloodstream quickly, therefore not blunt GH release.



This is what I have found:

Eating a candy bar will release a surge of glucose into your bloodstream and give you what is
often called a “sugar high.” A typical candy bar contains about 30 g (30,000 mg) of simple sugars. A 12-ounce can of regular (not diet) soda contains about 41 g of simple sugars. Simple sugars move rapidly from the digestive system into the bloodstream. The whole candy bar or soda might be absorbed in 20 to 30 minutes.

The Fasting State

You are in the fasting state any time when digestion has been completed. It occurs at night while you sleep. You may also enter the fasting state three hours after you have last eaten. However, if you snack between meals and after dinner you may not re-enter the fasting state while you are awake.

In the fasting state your liver keeps your blood sugar concentration at a normal level by continually releasing small amounts of glucose from the glycogen it has stored after meals or by producing new glucose from protein.

The concentration of the hormone insulin in your blood is the signal which tells the liver whether it needs to dump glucose into the blood. Insulin is released by special cells in the pancreas, the beta-cells, when they sense a rising level of glucose in the blood. When there is no new glucose coming into the blood stream from digestion, little insulin is released.

A normal, healthy liver is also sensitive to insulin levels. The less circulating insulin it senses in the blood stream, the harder the liver will work to put more glucose into the blood. In a healthy person, the liver keeps the fasting blood sugar concentration near 85 mg/dl (4.7 mmol/L) at all times.



The Post-Prandial State

You remain in the fasting state until you eat some food containing carbohydrates. After eating, any pure glucose that was present in your food will be absorbed into your bloodstream within fifteen minutes. Other carbohydrates will require digestion. Those that digest quickly--the so-called "high glycemic carbs" like white flour or sugar--typically take between a half hour and an hour enter your bloodstream. Slower acting carbohydrates like whole grains or pasta may take an hour to two or even, in the case of some hard-wheat pastas, three hours to release their glucose into your blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone#Regulation

Secretion patterns
Most of the physiologically important secretion occurs as several large pulses or peaks of GH release each day. The plasma concentration of GH during these peaks may range from 5 to 35 ng/mL or more. Peaks typically last from 10 to 30 minutes before returning to basal levels. The largest and most predictable of these GH peaks occurs about an hour after onset of sleep.[5] Otherwise there is wide variation between days and individuals. Between the peaks, basal GH levels are low, usually less than 3 ng/mL for most of the day and night.

 

[Sim882]

An appliction of what you have said is that while cutting, high GI foods may be preferable after any exercise not just from from the perspective of protein synthesis, but also weight loss as the insulin burts are shorter.

LOL, here we go, science geeking out again.

I love the questions you come up with.

It looks like if it is high GI it will be cleared from the bloodstream quickly, therefore not blunt GH release.



This is what I have found:

Eating a candy bar will release a surge of glucose into your bloodstream and give you what is
often called a “sugar high.” A typical candy bar contains about 30 g (30,000 mg) of simple sugars. A 12-ounce can of regular (not diet) soda contains about 41 g of simple sugars. Simple sugars move rapidly from the digestive system into the bloodstream. The whole candy bar or soda might be absorbed in 20 to 30 minutes.

The Fasting State

You are in the fasting state any time when digestion has been completed. It occurs at night while you sleep. You may also enter the fasting state three hours after you have last eaten. However, if you snack between meals and after dinner you may not re-enter the fasting state while you are awake.

In the fasting state your liver keeps your blood sugar concentration at a normal level by continually releasing small amounts of glucose from the glycogen it has stored after meals or by producing new glucose from protein.

The concentration of the hormone insulin in your blood is the signal which tells the liver whether it needs to dump glucose into the blood. Insulin is released by special cells in the pancreas, the beta-cells, when they sense a rising level of glucose in the blood. When there is no new glucose coming into the blood stream from digestion, little insulin is released.

A normal, healthy liver is also sensitive to insulin levels. The less circulating insulin it senses in the blood stream, the harder the liver will work to put more glucose into the blood. In a healthy person, the liver keeps the fasting blood sugar concentration near 85 mg/dl (4.7 mmol/L) at all times.



The Post-Prandial State

You remain in the fasting state until you eat some food containing carbohydrates. After eating, any pure glucose that was present in your food will be absorbed into your bloodstream within fifteen minutes. Other carbohydrates will require digestion. Those that digest quickly--the so-called "high glycemic carbs" like white flour or sugar--typically take between a half hour and an hour enter your bloodstream. Slower acting carbohydrates like whole grains or pasta may take an hour to two or even, in the case of some hard-wheat pastas, three hours to release their glucose into your blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone#Regulation

Secretion patterns
Most of the physiologically important secretion occurs as several large pulses or peaks of GH release each day. The plasma concentration of GH during these peaks may range from 5 to 35 ng/mL or more. Peaks typically last from 10 to 30 minutes before returning to basal levels. The largest and most predictable of these GH peaks occurs about an hour after onset of sleep.[5] Otherwise there is wide variation between days and individuals. Between the peaks, basal GH levels are low, usually less than 3 ng/mL for most of the day and night.

 

[keasbey]

As to big compound movements? YEAH! HELL YEAH! stop training body parts and start training movements. You want to ditch most of your individual lever work and look like you can tear the scullcap off a Kodiac Bear? Heavy Snatches. Heavy cleans to push-jerks. Ring work: muscle ups, inverted pikes, levers... you will will cut your training time in half, reduce gluconeogenesis to damn near nada due to very short TUT, increas your EPOC like crazy from the intensity and neuroendocrine reponse to all that power, balance, enriched enviroment and new combinations will lean you out like never before.

i dont think i understood 1/8th of this... ill be spending the rest of the night looking up 80% of the words

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

i dont think i understood 1/8th of this... ill be spending the rest of the night looking up 80% of the words

please post after you find the definitions. ;p

 

[Beachboy6294]

Some really good info on here!!