ketone diet??

[roidpuple]

So i started it to lose some fat....
How long tell you are in ketossis any one know??
do u eventually start burning up muslce??... or should i be able to keep most of it..
has anyone done it.... what were your results?????

 

[baby DBOL]

So i started it to lose some fat....
How long tell you are in ketossis any one know??
do u eventually start burning up muslce??... or should i be able to keep most of it..
has anyone done it.... what were your results?????

Its the only way to go for me, I have shreaded off almost 15 pounds in 3 weeks. diet has to be right on. I live on isopure zero carb.

80%protien
15% carbs
5% fat
eat very clean carbs when the craving attacks start!


symtoms of keystosis: sweet smeel of sweet, sweet smell of urine and light yellowish white, really bubblie urine also.

To be sure, just go to any pharmacy desk, just ask pharmacist for keytosis or keytone strips.. 500 in a bottle, use one stripe, urinate on it, it will change color depending on level of keytones in urine. match color of strip with color chart on the bottle. Its the best way-no quessing, allows you adjust your diet accordingly and its cheap.

On this type of diet, you may loose muscle, some type of anabolic is recomemend with clen or Trex or ECA, to maximize muscle salvage and speed up fat loss.

 

[Makavelli]

Its the only way to go for me, I have shreaded off almost 15 pounds in 3 weeks. diet has to be right on. I live on isopure zero carb.

80%protien
15% carbs
5% fat
eat very clean carbs when the craving attacks start!


symtoms of keystosis: sweet smeel of sweet, sweet smell of urine and light yellowish white, really bubblie urine also.

To be sure, just go to any pharmacy desk, just ask pharmacist for keytosis or keytone strips.. 500 in a bottle, use one stripe, urinate on it, it will change color depending on level of keytones in urine. match color of strip with color chart on the bottle. Its the best way-no quessing, allows you adjust your diet accordingly and its cheap.

On this type of diet, you may loose muscle, some type of anabolic is recomemend with clen or Trex or ECA, to maximize muscle salvage and speed up fat loss.

Actually bro with that much protein, particularly whey, I'd be surprised if you stayed in ketosis for any length of time. I've experimentd with this diet for 6 years now and have found the best ratio for those starting out with a ckd is 70% fat, 30 % protein. That's right, no carbs! Don't worry. You'll live. And you won't lose muscle. Keto diets are muscle sparing. Keep fat high until you can consistently drop into ketosis w/in 12 hours. Then only drop it down to 50% fat and 50% protein.

 

[blz]

might want to opt for a CKD if you want to conserve as much muscle as possible.

 

[roidpuple]

what is CKD ? catabolic somthing??...
ya i am have the sticks.... to day is the second fo rme..... I feel yucky
but i have had verry few carbs maybe 5 ..... but i was scared about the muscle loss
so you think i wont lose to much..... I am craving craving craving .....suger
but hoping the cravings will die down soon...
aslo i was kinda afraid of clen.. because i already feel yucky..... should i go ahead and give it a shot?? .......

 

[Makavelli]

what is CKD ? catabolic somthing??...
ya i am have the sticks.... to day is the second fo rme..... I feel yucky
but i have had verry few carbs maybe 5 ..... but i was scared about the muscle loss
so you think i wont lose to much..... I am craving craving craving .....suger
but hoping the cravings will die down soon...
aslo i was kinda afraid of clen.. because i already feel yucky..... should i go ahead and give it a shot?? .......

CKD stands for Cyclic Ketogenic Diet. It's what BB's use to lose fat w/o losing any muscle. You go no carb for 6 days and 1 day you carb up. If you feel like shit you're still in gluconeogenesis. This is where the body is still breaking down amino acids(read muscle) to make glucose. You need to adjust your ratios to the ones that I recommended. You'll drop into ketosis and feel much better.

 

[baby DBOL]

what is CKD ? catabolic somthing??...
ya i am have the sticks.... to day is the second fo rme..... I feel yucky
but i have had verry few carbs maybe 5 ..... but i was scared about the muscle loss
so you think i wont lose to much..... I am craving craving craving .....suger
but hoping the cravings will die down soon...
aslo i was kinda afraid of clen.. because i already feel yucky..... should i go ahead and give it a shot?? .......

Your basically attempting to retain your body to use its body fat energy stores as energy source all the time, thus the cravings, its want quick carbs and surgars, as that is what it is use to. The cravings diminish a few weeks into it and you actually start feeling even better, once convert to a fat burning machine.

For me the only way I can get thru the craving and hunger of this type of diet is to use Ephidrine HCL. It gives alot of energy and surpresses your appetitie.

as for muscle loss, keep the training to 45-60 minutes and mild anabolic is recomended to keep all muscle. plus your protien intake must be higher than normal.

I use and dont have any problems with:
25 mg Ephidrine HCL
200mg caffine
100 mcg or so liquid clen

some people cramp with this combo, so I would start with the EC combo, once you get use to it, add in clen 20mcg EOD until you start getting cramps and back it off 20 mcg or so.

 

[roidpuple]

ok thank you all..... this is a lot of help.. i well let you know..
is there a limit on how long you all stay on the diet...for any reason?
or do you just keep it up till you get the desired look you want??
i was shooting for maybe 3 weeks... hoping to drop about 15 to 20lbs of fat.
that would put me at a pretty low fat% I am guessing around 8%
when discontinueing the diet... do you need to be careful adding in carbs??
as i would think you body would be quick to want to store them...
my plan is to go about 2-3 weeks then... start low carb high protein low fat...

 

[Makavelli]

ok thank you all..... this is a lot of help.. i well let you know..
is there a limit on how long you all stay on the diet...for any reason?
or do you just keep it up till you get the desired look you want??
i was shooting for maybe 3 weeks... hoping to drop about 15 to 20lbs of fat.
that would put me at a pretty low fat% I am guessing around 8%
when discontinueing the diet... do you need to be careful adding in carbs??
as i would think you body would be quick to want to store them...
my plan is to go about 2-3 weeks then... start low carb high protein low fat...

WTF??? You're looking to lose 15-20 lbs. of fat in 3 weeks??? Impossible bro. Slow down. Your goal should be 1.5-2 lbs. of fat loss per week. Any more than that and you're probably losing muscle too. Yeah, it take a while, but it takes a while to get fat too. We just don't notice it b/c we're having so much fun. I've stayed on it for 9 months straight! I don't recommend this, but I was doing experiments on how best to utilize the diet.

 

[roidpuple]

i have to quote baby dbol on this one...
.[/QUOTE]Its the only way to go for me, I have shreaded off almost 15 pounds in 3 weeks. diet has to be right on. I live on isopure zero carb..[/QUOTE]

Ya at least 15lbs....my mother did it or you could call it atkins.... she lost 20 1st 2-3 weeks... then it slowed down a bit to... about 10lbs a month...
I have a buddy that has done it a few time he says... 15 in 2-3 weeks also...
so i am giving it a go.... You dident have these kind of results??....
i just plan to stay low to 0 in carbs see what happens except for the carbs in lettuce..
i think i can stay under 10 for sure....
I understood it as just the 1st stages .. starts up fast and calms down..
the only way i could control it would be to add carbs in....
so you think if it is 15lbs it will be muscle too... well I sure hope not..
this is the 3rd day I weigh 1st thing in the morning right after i Pee.
i have alread gone from.. 196 191.. and i felt strong is the weight room..witch i thought would be the oposit.. I do feel strange still though but seem to be getting more and more energy...

 

[swordfish151]

This sounds like something i would be interested in doing? Can anyone give me the guidelines on how to start this diet? what foods can be consumed? what does your training look like???? example of a keto daily diet would be appreciated??

 

[Makavelli]

i have to quote baby dbol on this one...
.

Its the only way to go for me, I have shreaded off almost 15 pounds in 3 weeks. diet has to be right on. I live on isopure zero carb..[/QUOTE]

Ya at least 15lbs....my mother did it or you could call it atkins.... she lost 20 1st 2-3 weeks... then it slowed down a bit to... about 10lbs a month...
I have a buddy that has done it a few time he says... 15 in 2-3 weeks also...
so i am giving it a go.... You dident have these kind of results??....
i just plan to stay low to 0 in carbs see what happens except for the carbs in lettuce..
i think i can stay under 10 for sure....
I understood it as just the 1st stages .. starts up fast and calms down..
the only way i could control it would be to add carbs in....
so you think if it is 15lbs it will be muscle too... well I sure hope not..
this is the 3rd day I weigh 1st thing in the morning right after i Pee.
i have alread gone from.. 196 191.. and i felt strong is the weight room..witch i thought would be the oposit.. I do feel strange still though but seem to be getting more and more energy...[/QUOTE]

IT'S WATER BROTHA! I lose 10 lbs in a day and a half evertime after I carb up. Water weight is different from fat loss. In fact it's common for BB's drop b/w 5-10 lbs in a day b4 a show by taking a diuretic. Is it 5-10 lbs of fat? Hell no! They are already 4-6% by this time. It's water. I can't say it enough..IT WILL NOT BE FAT LOSS! The human body can only lose about 2 lbs of fat per week w/o losing muscle along with it.

 

[brickbatstone]

I was always under the impression that this diet is very catabolic as it is hard to get and maintain ketosis. For you that stated you should lose 1-2lbs of fat per week: why do this diet if you can obtain the same results, and feel better, on a regulard low carb diet?

Can someone post the food eaten on any day? I am just curious to see what types of foods people eat on this diet.

 

[swordfish151]

This sounds like something i would be interested in doing? Can anyone give me the guidelines on how to start this diet? what foods can be consumed? what does your training look like???? example of a keto daily diet would be appreciated??

^

 

[Makavelli]

I was always under the impression that this diet is very catabolic as it is hard to get and maintain ketosis. For you that stated you should lose 1-2lbs of fat per week: why do this diet if you can obtain the same results, and feel better, on a regulard low carb diet?

Can someone post the food eaten on any day? I am just curious to see what types of foods people eat on this diet.

A CKD is the BEST diet period for BB's over 8% BF. It will get you lean and you can actually gain muscle while losing fat naturally. If you do it right, you will not be hungry, like with a traditional diet, and your energy levels will be much more stable. You have to understand that the human body is built to function in ketosis. It is catabolic to fat, but muscle sparing due to the fact that muscle cannot be turned into ketones, only fat can.

The types of foods to eat: 1)Red meat, 2) Casein, 3) Salmon, 4) Chicken, 5)Flax oil, 6)Olive oil. These are some examples. In the beginning stay away from whey protein as it's easily converted to glucose. You can add it in later.

 

[swordfish151]

A CKD is the BEST diet period for BB's over 8% BF. It will get you lean and you can actually gain muscle while losing fat naturally. If you do it right, you will not be hungry, like with a traditional diet, and your energy levels will be much more stable. You have to understand that the human body is built to function in ketosis. It is catabolic to fat, but muscle sparing due to the fact that muscle cannot be turned into ketones, only fat can.

The types of foods to eat: 1)Red meat, 2) Casein, 3) Salmon, 4) Chicken, 5)Flax oil, 6)Olive oil. These are some examples. In the beginning stay away from whey protein as it's easily converted to glucose. You can add it in later.

you got mail bro!

 

[swordfish151]

what does someones training look like on this diet? cardio? lifting?

 

[brickbatstone]

A CKD is the BEST diet period for BB's over 8% BF. It will get you lean and you can actually gain muscle while losing fat naturally.

I currently am around 15% BF. I'll try this diet and see how it will workout for me. I have never heard of anyone saying that you will build muscle though. I have heard the opposite, you will not be making any muscle gains.

 

[ohashi]

It's entirely possible to gain muscle on a ketogenic diet, especially with the aid of anabolics.

 

[Makavelli]

I currently am around 15% BF. I'll try this diet and see how it will workout for me. I have never heard of anyone saying that you will build muscle though. I have heard the opposite, you will not be making any muscle gains.

Every person that I've had on this diet has gained muscle while losing bodyfat natural or not. Make sure you do a CKD and not a straight keto. As BB's we need to carb up our muscles so that we can train with enough intensity to cause muscle growth and maintanence.
Your training and diet go together with this diet. Let's say you start the diet on a Monday. You'll split your bodyparts up over Monday, Tuesday, and Wed. Thursday and Friday are cardio only days. Saturday you do a depletion workout that ends at about noon. Now it's on! Carb up and pound water.
The carb up is very tricky. You need to consume about 10-12 g/carbs per kg of lean body mass the first 24 hours. The next 24 consume about 6-8. Notice I said 24 Hours. Yes, that means best results are achieved by eating in the middle of the night. Your insulin sensitivity will not put itself on hold b/c it's 10 P.M. and you have to sleep.

 

[roidpuple]

ok makavelli what you are saying makes since...... ...
i have lost around 20lbs in a month before with lost of running and low carb..low fat... hight protein.. this is a lot different.... ... but even that would of been close to what you are saying... i think... you are definitly giveing me good reading topics..
to explore.... thanks and keep the info comming ...
I will soon have more questions.

 

[Makavelli]

ok makavelli what you are saying makes since...... ...
i have lost around 20lbs in a month before with lost of running and low carb..low fat... hight protein.. this is a lot different.... ... but even that would of been close to what you are saying... i think... you are definitly giveing me good reading topics..
to explore.... thanks and keep the info comming ...
I will soon have more questions.

The problem with the low carb, low fat, high protein diet is that you're still putting yourself at risk for muscle loss. You will not get into ketosis w/o consuming enough fat. I can get into ketosis very easily now, but I've been experimenting with this diet for years. Like I said, I once did this diet for 9 months straight. Everyone thought that I was crazy. They kept saying, "there's no way you're going to gain muscle with that diet.". About 2 months later they were asking me to set them up on it!LOL! I'll be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

 

[roidpuple]

~~~~~So makavelli ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK..so i should go 50% fat 50%protein and lil to no carbs...
do this Mon threw. friday.... and on saterday... carb up
does this mean change amount of protein and fat too... or just make sure I get 10-12g per kg. of lean body weight...
I am going to guess 79.38kg... so that would be at least 800g of carbs
spread out into how many meals??? for 24hr
then do it again for the next 24hrs..but now..477g of carbs..
and start over no more carbs. back to 50-50 carb protein..
........and this is better?? because it helps you retain you muscle?
it has no negative effects for fat loss??? what are the best no carb foods and recomendations..?? and will i feel tired again like i did durning the change into ketosis..like a did the 1st time.. thanks any info on this is great.

 

[boops]

hey makavelli
could you lay out an example of a days eating say for yourself, including foods....you say you caesin as a protein source and not whey....would whey isolate be ok.....as always THANX!!!!

peace

 

[Makavelli]

hey makavelli
could you lay out an example of a days eating say for yourself, including foods....you say you caesin as a protein source and not whey....would whey isolate be ok.....as always THANX!!!!

peace

Roidpuple: You want to start out this diet with 75% fat and 25% protein. This is what will prevent you from feeling like shit. You'll get into ketosis much faster.

Boops: An example would be:
Meal 1-4 oz. red meat, 2 T. Flax oil
Meal 2-25 g casein, 2 T. flax oil
Meal 3-4 oz. Salmon 1 1/2 T. Flax oil
Meal 4-Same as 1
Train
Meal 5-25 g whey isolate, 2 T. flax oil
Meal 6-25 g casein, 2 T. Flax oil

Whey should only be taken post workout. It enters the bloodstream too fast and will be converted to glucose at other times. This will keep one out of ketosis.

 

[roidpuple]

so every cycle start the 1st day with 75%fat 25%protein..
and i had everything else correct??... so you take in flax every meal.

 

[brickbatstone]

OK do these macros sound good to you?

2164 calories
120 fat
16 carbs
254 protein




Meals:

4oz ground beef
2 whole eggs
1 oz cheese
1tbsp canola

6oz water packed tuna
2 whole eggs
1tbsp canola
1 oz cheese

6oz water packed tuna
2 whole eggs
1tbsp canola
1 oz cheese

2tb ANPB
1/3 Cup ham
2 whole eggs
1 oz cheese

44g whey post workout only

 

[Makavelli]

OK do these macros sound good to you?

2164 calories
120 fat
16 carbs
254 protein




Meals:

4oz ground beef
2 whole eggs
1 oz cheese
1tbsp canola

6oz water packed tuna
2 whole eggs
1tbsp canola
1 oz cheese

6oz water packed tuna
2 whole eggs
1tbsp canola
1 oz cheese

2tb ANPB
1/3 Cup ham
2 whole eggs
1 oz cheese

44g whey post workout only

Cut out the NAPB. I know that this is extreme, but it's an extreme diet. You may be able to add it in later once you can establish ketosis quickly. Other than that, it looks good. I prefer more omega 3 fats as they seem to cause greater fat loss and improve overall health.

 

[roidpuple]

during ketosis .. how many meals???

and during carb up how many meals?? should the carb up be complex carbs??
or will candy and sweets do...

 

[roidpuple]

Makavelli what do you think of Mr.X's CKD

http://www.mmsfitness.com/showthread.php?t=3995

and i dont understand.. when you carb up .. you muscles fill with glycogen..
and they grow......or this gives you muscles enough energy to last the week??

 

[Makavelli]

Makavelli what do you think of Mr.X's CKD

http://www.mmsfitness.com/showthread.php?t=3995

and i dont understand.. when you carb up .. you muscles fill with glycogen..
and they grow......or this gives you muscles enough energy to last the week??

Both. The carb up actually has 3 reasons for it's existence: 1) Fills up the muscles with glycogen so that one can train with enough intensity to maintain muscle while dieting, 2) Cause hypertrophy, and 3) Keeps the metabolism up. I'll have to check out that link. I'll tell you what I think.

 

[roidpuple]

please let me know what you think of the site...

so carbing up.... actually improves fat loss... and helps work out energy... k thanks

 

[Makavelli]

please let me know what you think of the site...

so carbing up.... actually improves fat loss... and helps work out energy... k thanks

I haven't had a chance to read the link because it's firewalled where I work. I'll look into it later. You got it about the carb up. It improves fat loss, helps workouts, and helps you retain muscle. Cool shit. It's amazing what food can do when used properly. Food is a drug.

 

[roidpuple]

I have also noticed that my skin seems alot cleaner since i have been in ketosis.
what do you think about that???

 

[Makavelli]

I have also noticed that my skin seems alot cleaner since i have been in ketosis.
what do you think about that???

That happens to most people. Carbs are inflammatory. They cause inflammation in the subcutaneous glands where the acne forms. Have you ever noticed that you break out worse while bulking? It's from the additional carbs.

 

[roidpuple]

http://www.mmsfitness.com/showthread.php?t=3995 did you ever get a chance to look at it???.......
do you have some thing i can read more about your ckd ??
details... whys and why nots??? ... or maybe expalin the actual roll of carbs...
..how does it keep my energy up for the 5 days i am in ketosis..
and i read alot of people do it for 1 day carb up that is ... and you like the 2 day.. thanks Makavelli

 

[Makavelli]

http://www.mmsfitness.com/showthread.php?t=3995 did you ever get a chance to look at it???.......
do you have some thing i can read more about your ckd ??
details... whys and why nots??? ... or maybe expalin the actual roll of carbs...
..how does it keep my energy up for the 5 days i am in ketosis..
and i read alot of people do it for 1 day carb up that is ... and you like the 2 day.. thanks Makavelli

I've written about this diet extensively on another board. I can PM you the board name. I didn't get a chance to look at it yet. I don't recommend 2 full days of carb loading. I recommend 24-36 hours. I have found that you will not supercompensate in 24 hours. It takes about 36 for the muscles to supercompensate. If you're goal is to lose the most amount of fat possible in the shortest amount of time, you can do the 24 hour load and you'll be fine. Extending the carb load seems to allow you to add more muscle since your muscles will completely fill out.

 

[roidpuple]

sure the link would be great!! Makavelli
I have just recently noticed my energy going down a little in the gym...
kinda lost my agression.... thanks i will be looking for the link ...

 

[roidpuple]

.

 

[kimchee411]

Hey makavelli, good stuff here. I've done straight keto diets before and they've worked great. This time I was planning on doing CKD, but 1) it's damn hard to stay away from any fat, 2) I don't know exactly what I should be eating during refeed day what w/GIs and all, and 3) I can't stand the bloat when the carbs and water come back. I've been doing straight keto for 5 weeks now, with nice results - down about 12-15 lbs. and 4-5% bf or so - though I admit I've cheated 2 or 3 times with a couple chicken fajita pitas b/c I really had no choice (it was either that or starve) and have had my fair share of low carb sugar alcohol products.

Anyway I think it's time for a refeed, so could you give me an example of what meals you'd eat? I'm just gonna stick to one day for simplicity. It's tough to keep strict tabs on everything, and eat frequently, when you're very very busy like I am. I generally just make sure I don't exceed 1700-1900 cals and try to stay away from virtually all carbs (sans lettuce and other mild veggies).

BTW I have put on some decent muscle mass while on the diet, though my energy and stamina have been suffering (T-Rex and YES definitely help w/that). 2 caveats: keto breath and excess skin, but I'll live with it for the time being! OK I'm gonna STFU now...

 

[roidpuple]

did you say your are keeping your fat low??
you wanna keep your fat intake up.. keeps you in ketosis..
...how did you feel that 1st couple of days going in...

 

[roidpuple]

Hey makavelli, good stuff here. I've done straight keto diets before and they've worked great. This time I was planning on doing CKD, but 1) it's damn hard to stay away from any fat, 2) I don't know exactly what I should be eating during refeed day what w/GIs and all, and 3) I can't stand the bloat when the carbs and water come back. I've been doing straight keto for 5 weeks now, with nice results - down about 12-15 lbs. and 4-5% bf or so - though I admit I've cheated 2 or 3 times with a couple chicken fajita pitas b/c I really had no choice (it was either that or starve) and have had my fair share of low carb sugar alcohol products.

Anyway I think it's time for a refeed, so could you give me an example of what meals you'd eat? I'm just gonna stick to one day for simplicity. It's tough to keep strict tabs on everything, and eat frequently, when you're very very busy like I am. I generally just make sure I don't exceed 1700-1900 cals and try to stay away from virtually all carbs (sans lettuce and other mild veggies).

BTW I have put on some decent muscle mass while on the diet, though my energy and stamina have been suffering (T-Rex and YES definitely help w/that). 2 caveats: keto breath and excess skin, but I'll live with it for the time being! OK I'm gonna STFU now...

check this site out.. you may have to register but there is lots of good info..there...

http://www.mmsfitness.com/showthread.php?t=3995

 

[kimchee411]

did you say your are keeping your fat low??
you wanna keep your fat intake up.. keeps you in ketosis..
...how did you feel that 1st couple of days going in...

I meant staying away from fat while loading on carbs, so I haven't been refeeding. First couple days takes some adjusting, which may include the runs, but it subsides soon enough and then you feel good... except calorie deprivation affects your energy level during workouts.

Sorry, I don't really have time to register for another board and sift through mountains of info. I just want 1 refeed meal plan. I'm okay with eating the exact same thing once a week.

What about using Glucorell R on refeed days and just maintaining cals with a mix of carbs and fat (and protein of course), since the R-ALA supposedly shuttles most of the glucose into muscle glycogen anyway?

 

[roidpuple]

ya i hate that 1st couple of days.. feel like a bitch ha ha...
makavilii helped me out though.... after a carb up day ... and i am on my way back into ketosis... i raise my fats alot higher... and i noticed.. i did not feel that bad...
.....and i have to eat lots of fiber.. to help with the runs.. ha ha.. lots of peanuts... seems to work pretty good for me... I had let myself get pretty fat... at least to me i was... i am finally getting bach to normal... i really like the CKD...
.... makes my skin nice and shinny also ... I love that..

 

[Extra_Strong]

hummm

 

[Extra_Strong]

............