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Jesus and the cross?

P

Peyote Killa

New member
This just came to me in a conversation I was just recently having.

All you Christians might be able to help me out on this one.
Why the Fuck do people wear crosses, specially the crucifix, where Jesus is pictured on the cross.

I mean, lets just go out on a limb here and say that Jesus does come back to this Earth, do you fucking think that guy ever wants to see another fucking CROSS. Come on, I kow that most of you guys think that one day he will come back, and if you believe this, then why would you wear a cross. If I was that guy, I would never want to see another cross ever.
 
WOW! You are so full of anger!

I wear a cross around my neck as a constant reminder of the sacrifice God made for me by sending His only son to die for our sins.

I also wear a cross around my neck as an outward sign (other than my actions) of my faith.

:)
 
I use to put forth similar argument PK. What if jesus came back and interpreted cross wearing individuals as supporters of the Roman Empire who were for the cruxifiction?

Why not have a symbol of an open tomb for Life Eternal?
 
VooDoo Lady said:
WOW! You are so full of anger!

I wear a cross around my neck as a constant reminder of the sacrifice God made for me by sending His only son to die for our sins.

I also wear a cross around my neck as an outward sign (other than my actions) of my faith.

:)
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Anger, I don't thik I have ever been mad persay. I get in trouble for laughing too much, the whole anger thing can't be pawned off becuase I started this thread.
I just was thinking honestly why would you wear a cross, why not a picture of the guy, I mean for real, do you think he wants to see all his followers wearing a cross, or a cross with him on it dead. Wouldn't that piss you off. I understand that it reminds you of how he died for you, but why a cross, why not something else, like maybe carry a script or a quote in your walet or purse, but a cross, that's just kinda fucked up. The guy was killed on a cross, and all his followers are now wearing one, that kinda sux
 
WODIN said:
I use to put forth similar argument PK. What if jesus came back and interpreted cross wearing individuals as supporters of the Roman Empire who were for the cruxifiction?

Why not have a symbol of an open tomb for Life Eternal?
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Something like that, I can understand a little more, I'm not tring to be cynical, but just tring to see if anyone who wears a cross has ever thought about what the cross might actually be seen as
 
I've only seen one or two of him laughing...one of which he was with children...

I've always said that I would like to get a tattoo of that.....
 
I can see that as a better approach than getting a tat of a cross.

The whole cross thing just kinda confuses me, it's like people wear them cuz they are told to, or that is a way to "show" that you are a devoute christian. When you think about it a cross is kinda a bad thing, the original use for the cross was to kill people. Hence the word Crucify.
 
Peyote Killa said:


Anger, I don't thik I have ever been mad persay. I get in trouble for laughing too much, the whole anger thing can't be pawned off becuase I started this thread.
I just was thinking honestly why would you wear a cross, why not a picture of the guy, I mean for real, do you think he wants to see all his followers wearing a cross, or a cross with him on it dead. Wouldn't that piss you off. I understand that it reminds you of how he died for you, but why a cross, why not something else, like maybe carry a script or a quote in your walet or purse, but a cross, that's just kinda fucked up. The guy was killed on a cross, and all his followers are now wearing one, that kinda sux
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Whenever you are writing about religion, you seem angry, I mean....

I LOVE the open tomb idea :)

Regarding the laughing Jesus…did anyone see the movie Dogma? Remember at the beginning the Catholic Church’s campaign to try and bring more people into the church? The smiling Jesus giving the thumbs up?

AT first that made me angry….made me feel like they were attempting to make a mockery of Jesus…then I realized, that actually IS how I see Jesus!! Smiling and happy…so why NOT depict him that way? :)
 
No, I'm never angry, but confused as to why some religious people feel the need to follow just cuz everybody else is why can't some people think for themselves?
 
you are wrong
I TOTALLY understand why you guys wear a cross, but did you ever stop and think about how Jesus might feel about you wearing a cross
 
For GOD loved the world that he gave his only son to die for OUR sins on the cross so that we may have forgiveness and everlasting life...

Before Christianity, the Jewish community of that time felt that you had to live a perfect and clean life in every way, every day...

Jesus preached that GOD was a forgiving, loving god and if you should sin, you could ask for his forgiveness and you would be forgiven. This is one of the many reasons the Romans and the Jews were frightened by what jesus was saying and pushed to have him crucified.

Wearing the cross is not so much an outward sign of my faith to others, as I am not a pushy christian. It is more of a reminder for ME of the sacrifice of the Trinity of my faith. Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
 
I understand WHY all of you might wear the cross, I don't care to hear it over and over, but I was just thinking, and it struck me that the guy who died for your sins, happened to die on the same thing that you are wearing. Doesn't that stike any of you as a little aww strucken, considering the man died on the cross, do you think that if he ever comes back, he would actually want to ever see another one?

Is that more clear.
 
Peyote Killa said:
No, I'm never angry, but confused as to why some religious people feel the need to follow just cuz everybody else is why can't some people think for themselves?
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humm....seems to me that Christians have been a persecuted bunch for a couple thousand years....

I do think for myself, peyote, I certainly am not a drone who blindly accepts anything fed to me without a thought....

I think these religion conversations go no where because there is a total intangible involved here...and it's called FAITH! Peyote, from what I gather, you don't have faith, so there really isn't any way that you'll ever be able to understand where I am coming from...although I have been in your shoes before (without faith) so I do know where you are coming from....
 
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The cross I don't mind to much. I DON'T however like the crucifix the catholics use. Jesus rose from the grave so why wear something that show his death and him still being on it. I would rather have a symbol of an empty tomb to show that He(unlike budda, mohamad and all those other false prophets) conquered death and that is why He proved He was God.
 
Jesus does not mind if you where a cross.

The sacrifice He made on Calvery was the greatest ever, in the history of the world.

I am sure that He is not bitter or ashamed of what He did and knows that by wearing a cross, individuals commemorate, or remember His great sacrifice.

To be angry about it He would have to be bitter about the whole thing and there is not a chance that He is bitter about it---He aint like that.:D
 
huntmaster said:
who dat???
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a comedian. He did a bit about how jesus was pissed off because everyone was wearing crosses.

"A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. Do you think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to look at a fucking cross? It's kinda like going up to Jackie Onassis with a rifle pendant on."
 
PK.. lemme give you a lil warning.. don't try having an intelligible conversation with dgreenhill about religion.. as he's incapable of such..

you're better off putting him on your ignore list while you have an active religious thread.. that's what i do now..



saint.. good point... since people think he's coming back anyway.. maybe they'll have their chance... but maybe instead of a gun.. he'll be killed by lethal injection.. or the electric chair.. then they can wear that around their neck.... and that'll be coooool..
 
Curling, I like your input, and that is exactly what I have been looking for. So you see the posed statement.

Nord - yeah I have been listening to him for a long time now, but I was actually talking to someone on this board about crosses, and then what Hicks said actually posed a valid point. So I asked.

Decem, you are right I know that there are some who just don't even want to question what they have been told is right. It's ok, I don't hold that against anyone, but I do hope that those same people realize that reality is only what you have been told, but can be somuch more if you just question everything.

Thanks for all the input
 
1 Samuel 16:7

I don't think that it is as much of what you wear...but what you mean and what you hold inside.

The cross is a reminder of what Jesus went through. Even if he was not the son of God...if he truly believed that he was being crucified to save the world...then he is someone to be looked up to. If he really did take the lashings, beatings, thorns and nails...and still forgave people...he is someone to look up to.

I used to wear a pin on my shirt tail at all times that said "God Loves You." I still would if I had not lost it. I wear my Christian shirts all the time. www.omegaforce.org I have people look at me on campus all the time and some people ask me about them...at least I am noticed. At least someone can look at me and see my faith in me.

B True
 
Regardless of whether you believe Jesus was the Son of GOD or just a man, if you read his teachings they were cutting edge for their time. The beliefs of the day were either None, Idolatry or that God was a power to be feared and non forgiving above all else.
Jesus taught forgiveness was available from God, Having an Open mind toward others that are different from you and treating the least amoung us as equals...
 
Cross

What does God's word say about the making of images used as objects of worship?

Lev.26:1, JB: "You must make no idols;you must set up neither carved image nor standing-stone, set up no sculptured stone in your land, to prostrate yourselves in front of it; for it is I, Yahweh, who am your God." (No image before which people might bow in worship was ever to be set up.) Knowing this, would it be appropraite to worship crosses?

May images be used simply as aids in worship of the true God?

2 Cor. 5:7,NAB: "We walk by faith, not by sight."

Isa. 40:18, JB: "To whom could you liken God? What image could you contrive of him?"

Isa. 42:8, JB: "My name is Yahweh, I will not yield my glory to another, nor my honour to idols."

How does God view images that are objects of worship?

Jer. 10:14,15, JB: "Every goldsmith blushes for the idol he has made, since his images are nothing but delusion, with no breath in them. They are Nothing, a laughable production."

Historical origins of the Cross


"The shape of the [the two-beamed cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form , with the cross-piece lowered , was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ."
-An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words(London, 1962), W.E. Vine, p.256.

The Greek word rendered "cross" in many modern Bible versions is stau-ros'. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale.

Concerning first-century Christians, History of the Christian Church says: "There was no use of the crucifix and no material representation of the cross."-(New York, 1897), J.F. Hurst, Vol I. p.366.

Does it really make a difference if a person cherishes a cross, as long as he does not worship it?

How would you feel if one of your dearest friends was executed on the basis of false charges? Would you make a replica of the instrument of execution? Would you cherish it, or would you rather shun it?

In ancient Israel, unfaithful Jews wept over the death of the false god Tammuz. Jehovah spoke of what they were doing as being a 'detestable thing.'(Ezek. 8:13,14) According to history, Tammuz was a Babylonian god, and the cross was used as his symbol. From its beginning in the days of Nimrod, Babylon was against God and an enemy of true worship. (Gen. 10:8-10; Jer. 50:29) So by cherishing the cross, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to the true God.
 
this is sad, but I know they dont mean anything to you now---but one day the will. It is up to you what happens in between now and judgement day, Decem.:)
 
Peyote, isn't it funny how people seem to know for exact certainty how someone who lived 2000 years ago, and have never met, would think?
 
Sorry VDL I couldnt resist!

VooDoo Lady said:
Regarding the laughing Jesus…did anyone see the movie Dogma? Remember at the beginning the Catholic Church’s campaign to try and bring more people into the church? The smiling Jesus giving the thumbs up?
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huntmaster said:
It is up to you what happens in between now and judgement day, Decem.:)
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huntmaster.... thanks for the concern slick.. but um... i won't be judged by any one slick..

scurry along now.. you don't wanna miss your next opportunity to go shoot some deer and some raccoons in the name of jesus christ...
 
Here is a quote for you...

Leaving 'Alice in Wonderland' aside, look closely at 'Through the Looking Glass' - particularly 'The Walrus and the Carpenter' poem: what's the metaphorical meaning?

I wasn't aware there was one.

Oh, but there is - it colorfully details the sham that is organized religion. The Walrus - with his girth and good-nature - obviously refers to either the Buddha, or - with his tusks - the lovable
Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. This takes care of the Eastern religions. The Carpenter is an Obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was purportedly raised the son of a carpenter. He
represents the Western religions. And in the poem, what do they do? They dupe all the oysters into following them. Then, when the oysters collective guard is down, the Walrus and the Carpenter shuck and devour the helpless creatures, en masse. I
don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that following faiths based on these mythological figures insures the destruction of one's inner-being.

Organized religion destroys who we are or who we can be by inhibiting our actions and decisions out of fear of an intangible parent-figure who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says "No, no!"

'Through the Looking Glass' - a children's tale? I think not.
 
VooDoo Lady said:
WOW! You are so full of anger!

I wear a cross around my neck as a constant reminder of the sacrifice God made for me by sending His only son to die for our sins.

I also wear a cross around my neck as an outward sign (other than my actions) of my faith.

:)
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Exactly, it's a symbol of his sacrifice.
 
Burning_Inside said:
I often wonder how much socially advanced we'd be as a whole if there wasn't religion locking people in cages.
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DAYUM......... What religion locks people in cages? You mean like Hansel and Gretel?

Maybe there is a religion out there that I like.

THANKS!
 
Re: Here is a quote for you...

kronk said:


Organized religion destroys who we are or who we can be by inhibiting our actions and decisions out of fear of an intangible parent-figure who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says "No, no!"
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AMEN
 
Peyote Killa said:
you are wrong
I TOTALLY understand why you guys wear a cross, but did you ever stop and think about how Jesus might feel about you wearing a cross
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It's funny that you say you TOTALLY understand it when what you said in your first post was, "Why the fuck do you guys wear a cross . . ." You should realize that you are contradicting yourself.

Now to answer your question. I don't wear a cross, but, if I did it would serve more as a reminder to me of what Jesus did for the world. It also might serve as a conversation piece or to let others know that I'm a Christian.

However, the crucifiction scene kind of spooks me out. I hate looking at it in church. It is very eerie to me, so i see what you're saying.
 
I know this is already posted.

I don't wear a cross but if I did then I would see it as a reminder of what Jesus has done for me and how I should live. Sometimes during the day I forget how I should act and it would be a good reminder, but I don't wear one. I don't know if this is the right answer or not but I don't necessarily think you would be satisfied with it anyways. It seems as though, a lot of times, when people start these types of posts it just ends up bashing those who believe.

"Burning_Inside I often wonder how much socially advanced we'd be as a whole if there wasn't religion locking people in cages. "
I agree. I think people should spend more time practicing what the Bible teaches and how Jesus lived than practice religion.

"decem
huntmaster.... thanks for the concern slick.. but um... i won't be judged by any one slick..

scurry along now.. you don't wanna miss your next opportunity to go shoot some deer and some raccoons in the name of jesus christ..."
Why would he be shooting them in the name of Jesus Christ?

"decem enough with the biblical quotes.. they don't mean shit.. "
This is true and people must remember that when talking to non-believers, Bible quotes don't mean anything.
 
Re: I know this is already posted.

dude said:
"decem enough with the biblical quotes.. they don't mean shit.. "
This is true and people must remember that when talking to non-believers, Bible quotes don't mean anything.
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With all due respect to that statement, why dont you post some Bible quotes up that talk about the mass murders that were committed in the name of Christianity. There are plenty of them. Most people that post bible quotes, only quote the happy good stuff, or things that support their opinions. They never want to reveal the true darkside. Whatever.
 
Re: Re: I know this is already posted.

kronk said:


With all due respect to that statement, why dont you post some Bible quotes up that talk about the mass murders that were committed in the name of Christianity. There are plenty of them. Most people that post bible quotes, only quote the happy good stuff, or things that support their opinions. They never want to reveal the true darkside. Whatever.
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I just wrote a post about how there is no point to it. I was not being negative if you took it that way. Also, I have no point in posting a Bible quote of mass murders if the post is about crosses.
 
I believe in God...I believe in Jesus...I wear my cross b/c it's a reminder that there is more to life then what meets the eye...certain things around you are unseen but have a great impact on your life...your soul can't be seen or touched but YOU KNOW it's there...the same idea applies to God for me personally..I don't do it to follow a "religious trend"...I am not a "holy roller", I don't go to Church every Sunday, I just have my personal beliefs that are with me everyday...and I love how mature some of you can be with your stupid jokes...if you don't understand the idea of God then that is your deal, I won't sit here and post stupid pictures and make corny jokes about it :rolleyes:
 
Ephesians 5:6

"Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient."

sounds like a loving and forgiving bunch of folks don't it?

i will continue to disbelieve.
 
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naturally anabolic said:
Ephesians 5:6

"Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient."

sounds like a loving and forgiving bunch of folks don't it?

i will continue to disbelieve.
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If you want to you can justify anything all the things you do in the Bible. It's easy to take out quotes here and there but if you take it out of context then it doesn't have the same meaning.
 
taken out of context or not, but why is there always a need to unleash the "wrath of god".....seems to me that is quite a crutch when it comes to the bible, a lovely literary fiction piece if you ask me. There have been more death in the name of religion then for any other reason. Examples....Crusades, spanish inquizitions....
 
naturally anabolic said:
taken out of context or not, but why is there always a need to unleash the "wrath of god".....seems to me that is quite a crutch when it comes to the bible, a lovely literary fiction piece if you ask me. There have been more death in the name of religion then for any other reason. Examples....Crusades, spanish inquizitions....
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I'm not really sure if it is a crutch or not but I don't believe in the God because he threatens to punish me if I don't.
 
Peyote Killa said:
I can see that as a better approach than getting a tat of a cross.

The whole cross thing just kinda confuses me, it's like people wear them cuz they are told to, or that is a way to "show" that you are a devoute christian. When you think about it a cross is kinda a bad thing, the original use for the cross was to kill people. Hence the word Crucify.
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I can't stand Jesus tattoos! It seems that all the so called "sinners" get them, like it will save their sorry asses in the end. I did see one Jesus tattoo that I liked, it was Jesus with a noose around his neck, hanging, kind of like the cross to think of it. Anyway the owner used to tell everyone that he "hung" with Jesus.:D
 
it's been argued that faith in an unseen, unfelt higher power is a crutch for people who can't get a grip on reality. If they didn't believe there was someone guiding them along and holding their hand through life, they'd break down into a pile of scared goo. Kinda like kids who haven't been potty trained yet.
 
Burning_Inside said:
it's been argued that faith in an unseen, unfelt higher power is a crutch for people who can't get a grip on reality. If they didn't believe there was someone guiding them along and holding their hand through life, they'd break down into a pile of scared goo. Kinda like kids who haven't been potty trained yet.
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It's also been argued that the world isn't round, that time travel is possible, and that Tupac is still alive. What is your point?
 
bigguns7 said:


It's also been argued that the world isn't round, that time travel is possible, and that Tupac is still alive. What is your point?
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Point is that I think it's a good arguement portraying faith holders as people who just believe they can't live life by themselves, and can't make their own decisions hoping some unseen thing will lead them on the right path. Basically, they're nuts. What other reason does one need to believe in something SO strongly they have never seen nor felt than to have this "god" thing supposedly being there watching over their every move in life, leading them down the golden path and offering support? When people place their faith in this god thing, it tells me that they don't believe they're capable to live life on their own and can't make their own decsions, and they need this unseen power to make them for them. I also feel that they are afraid of what's beyond life and believe that if they have faith, they will basically live in candyland when they die, so it's also for people who can't accept death. I don't blame anyone for not being able to accept it, after all, this is America, and if there was ever any civilization or culture who had people so afraid of death it's this one. I just really do think that people who have faith see the world as a horrible place (which for the most part it is) and feel they need to believe in some higher power to help them through it. If that's what gets you through your day, hey whatever makes you happy, but it doesn't mean you're not psycho. Little kids with invisible friends to "help" them through their day is one thing, but when you're 13 years old on up and believeing in it......
 
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You guys are all pathetic. AND I MEAN ALL not just religious people. Believe what you want to believe and move on. Stop fucking bashing people and their beliefs. You guys are a bunch of whining fucking crybabies.
 
Cure said:
You guys are all pathetic. AND I MEAN ALL not just religious people. Believe what you want to believe and move on. Stop fucking bashing people and their beliefs. You guys are a bunch of whining fucking crybabies.
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hey join the party;add yourself to the list.
 
Burning_Inside said:


Point is that I think it's a good arguement portraying faith holders as people who just believe they can't live life by themselves, and can't make their own decisions hoping some unseen thing will lead them on the right path. Basically, they're nuts. What other reason does one need to believe in something SO strongly they have never seen nor felt than to have this "god" thing supposedly being there watching over their every move in life, leading them down the golden path and offering support? When people place their faith in this god thing, it tells me that they don't believe they're capable to live life on their own and can't make their own decsions, and they need this unseen power to make them for them. I also feel that they are afraid of what's beyond life and believe that if they have faith, they will basically live in candyland when they die, so it's also for people who can't accept death. I don't blame anyone for not being able to accept it, after all, this is America, and if there was ever any civilization or culture who had people so afraid of death it's this one. I just really do think that people who have faith see the world as a horrible place (which for the most part it is) and feel they need to believe in some higher power to help them through it. If that's what gets you through your day, hey whatever makes you happy, but it doesn't mean you're not psycho. Little kids with invisible friends to "help" them through their day is one thing, but when you're 13 years old on up and believeing in it......
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BULLSHIT. I'm catholic and i swear, fuck all kinds even though i'm not married, where a cross, lie, bitch, complain, eat meat on fridays, don't go to church and sometimes even find myself cursing him out yet I still don't think i'll be stricken down anytime soon. I run by my own clock yet still believe in jesus and god.
NOT EVERYONE GOES TO THE EXTREME. DON'T GENERALIZE!
 
If there was an omniscient god he would know that the cross isn´t a symbol to mock him.

But since he was a fraud anyway it doesn´t matter.
 
Burning_Inside said:


Point is that I think it's a good arguement portraying faith holders as people who just believe they can't live life by themselves, and can't make their own decisions hoping some unseen thing will lead them on the right path. Basically, they're nuts. What other reason does one need to believe in something SO strongly they have never seen nor felt than to have this "god" thing supposedly being there watching over their every move in life, leading them down the golden path and offering support? When people place their faith in this god thing, it tells me that they don't believe they're capable to live life on their own and can't make their own decsions, and they need this unseen power to make them for them. I also feel that they are afraid of what's beyond life and believe that if they have faith, they will basically live in candyland when they die, so it's also for people who can't accept death. I don't blame anyone for not being able to accept it, after all, this is America, and if there was ever any civilization or culture who had people so afraid of death it's this one. I just really do think that people who have faith see the world as a horrible place (which for the most part it is) and feel they need to believe in some higher power to help them through it. If that's what gets you through your day, hey whatever makes you happy, but it doesn't mean you're not psycho. Little kids with invisible friends to "help" them through their day is one thing, but when you're 13 years old on up and believeing in it......
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Just as you assert that Christians "need" God to make it through the day, your comments on this thread show something just as pitiful about you. You "need" to try to disprove God's existence, and you "need" to downplay the faith of Christians so you can go on living comfortably in your world. We're all the same. I need my beliefs to feel comfortable and you need yours.
 
bigguns7 said:


Just as you assert that Christians "need" God to make it through the day, your comments on this thread show something just as pitiful about you. You "need" to try to disprove God's existence, and you "need" to downplay the faith of Christians so you can go on living comfortably in your world. We're all the same. I need my beliefs to feel comfortable and you need yours.
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I don't feel a NEED to disprove it (tho' I do think the world would be a much better place if there was no such things as higher powers, but humans as we are have a need in general to not be able to contemplate certain things, meaning they just pass it off as being made by something bigger than we know it, meaning a god of sorts), trust me I don't like putting people down and making them feel less than human because of their beliefs. That's not what I'm doing here. I might say people might be foolish, but it's not like I'm calling them assholes or anything.

By the way, if my "need" is "just as pitiful" as the Chtistian's need to believe, I guess you do agree then that the belief they hold is truly pitiful?

And I don't need to believe either way to make it through my day, I take what comes. If I believed, I'd make it through, as of now I don't, and I still make it through, it's just that if I believed, then I'd be even more of a fool than I, as a human, already am. I probably wouldn't think I was, But that wouldn't mean I wasn't.
 
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Burning_Inside said:


By the way, if my "need" is "just as pitiful" as the Chtistian's need to believe, I guess you do agree then that the belief they hold is truly pitiful?
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I do believe that Christians who can't subsist without a belief that God is guiding their every action are pitiful. But I don't agree with your sweeping generalization that all Christians need God in order to be able to breathe.

I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself, but I believe that I am further strengthened spiritually because of my belief in God.

You see, you confuse spirituality with mentality, which in weak-minded individuals can be one in the same. However, I possess a certain amount of intelligence independent of my fatih in God. I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself, but I do believe in the afterlife, and I do believe that a man named Jesus Christ died on a cross for the sins of the world. Those beliefs do not make me weak, nor do they form the basis upon which i live my everyday life.

If you could prove to me tomorrow that God did not exist, and that Jesus was not the Messiah, I would go on living. My brain would not cease to work, nor would my body.
 
bigguns7 said:


I do believe that Christians who can't subsist without a belief that God is guiding their every action are pitiful. But I don't agree with your sweeping generalization that all Christians need God in order to be able to breathe. no, not to breathe, but for many other daily aspects of life

I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself, but I believe that I am further strengthened spiritually because of my belief in God.

I don't think you're strenghtening your spirit, I think you're strengthening your imagination and furthering yourself into a psychoses. Believing in yourself, not a fairytale, strengthens who you are.



You see, you confuse spirituality with mentality, which in weak-minded individuals can be one in the same.

Mentality begets spirituality, as you have to have a mentality in the first place to culture your spirituality, however your spirituality then plays a main role on your mentality, as teachings and whatnot of course make you who you are. So essentially they may not be one int he same, but pretty close to it as they work in unison.



However, I possess a certain amount of intelligence independent of my fatih in God. I neevr said foolish people can't be intelligent

I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself, but I do believe in the afterlife, me too, but I don't believe it's a heaven of sorts with fluffy recliners and fuzzy slippers. I think if anything, it's a state of spirit.

and I do believe that a man named Jesus Christ died on a cross for the sins of the world. Those beliefs do not make me weak, nor do they form the basis upon which i live my everyday life.

If you could prove to me tomorrow that God did not exist, and that Jesus was not the Messiah, I would go on living. My brain would not cease to work, nor would my body.
Click to expand...
 
Burning_Inside said:

I don't think you're strenghtening your spirit, I think you're strengthening your imagination and furthering yourself into a psychoses. Believing in yourself, not a fairytale, strengthens who you are.

Click to expand...

Let's just agree to disagree. I believe in myself, and I believe that I make my own destiny, not God or anyone else. I do not believe that a higher power has planned my life in front of me. I believe that the choices I make are my own and of my own free will. To me, this is my mentality.

I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, who came to earth as a man to bear the sins of the world. I believe that God created the earth, and the He is THE supreme being. This is my spirituality.

As far as I'm concerned, these two belief systems are related, but at the same time are totally independent of one another.

You can believe whatever you like, and I won't chastize you or threaten you with the prospect of hell. Nor will I think less of you for having a hard time believing in the concept of God, as it is a concept that is very hard to believe in. Nor will I think you are stupid or weak for having your own thoughts rather than sharing the same thoughts with a group of people that form an organized religion.
 
I will just say from experience that you can't generalize and say that all Christians use God as a crutch. All of the Christians and Catholics that I know truly love God and live their life for Him. They do not need a God to get through life because they are weak. I can't speak for everyone but my point is that you can't and shouldn't generalize. I would also like to wonder why there are so many posts about why "we" believe in God but how many posts are there about why "you" don't believe in God. It takes just as much faith to believe that we came from primordial goo that it does to believe we were created by God. .
 
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