Is stand up grappling involved in Muay Thai?

[Area5150]

I was on another site a few weeks ago and I was surprised to read that stand-up grappling is part of the Muay Thai philosophy. Is that true? Can anyone verify or reject that? I thought Muay Thai was one part kicking and one part punching. If it's true, will a Muay Thai school teach grappling techniques? What do you guys say?

 

[Djimbe]

MT does some Limited Standing Grappling , mostly tro secure the Opponent for Elbow and (most often) Knee Strikes . Its not like the level of that wich you would see in Tai Chi or anything

Its standing Grappling game is typically referred to as "Clinchwork" .

 

[Judo Tom]

if your in southern california and want to learn standup grappling you are in a good place. lots of good throwers in that area.

ever hear of dave camirillo? san jose has some great places.

go check out some judo places in the area and see what you think

 

[Big Rick Rock]

I was on another site a few weeks ago and I was surprised to read that stand-up grappling is part of the Muay Thai philosophy. Is that true? Can anyone verify or reject that? I thought Muay Thai was one part kicking and one part punching. If it's true, will a Muay Thai school teach grappling techniques? What do you guys say?

Yes, MT does have some of the BEST clinch STRIKING out of any Martial Art in the world. It has to, If it didn't, then the guys who make a living fighting would not train in it so heavily. However, MT "stand-up grappling" will not teach you how to take an oppent down or defend against takedowns. The MT "stand-up grappling" is geared towards getting control of your opponent so that you can open him up for strikes with your knees or elbows. If you are looking to learn how to take a guy down or keep from getting taken down. Look into Freestyle/Greco Roman Wrestling or Judo, as these are the most effective arts for this purpose.

Stay away from the Deadlier arts like Tai Chi, you may become too lethal as a stand-up grappler and really hurt or even kill people . The MMA guys who make a living fighting and have learned thru trial and error what works and what doesn't. Have stayed away from training the deadly art of Tai Chi for their clinch work and have instead opted to use the less effective and less deadly Muay Thai, Judo and Wrestling for their stand up grappling.




-BRR

 

[Judo Tom]

i have never been to a muay thai school so im not sure how things are run there .. like how much time is spent doing kicks vs punches.. sparring vs drills etc etc.. but

i can say that what i have learned and seen is great especially the clinch and low leg kicks.. oh knnes and elbows are cool too

i would love to work more Muay Thai because i really like getting the clinch but i cant strike from there now.. just throw.. i would love to get good at thai strikes from teh clinch..

but for standup throws/takedowns look towards bjj/jj/sambo/wrestling/judo/san shou/etc

basically again it comes down to knowing what you want and then visiting schools til you find one that will help you.. going by style alone is not the way to do it

good luck

 

[Djimbe]

BRR :

I would LOVE to Invite you to one of our Taiji classes .

 

[Big Rick Rock]

BRR :

I would LOVE to Invite you to one of our Taiji classes .

I'm sorry bro. I'm too busy wasting my time training in less effective arts such as Muay Thai, Boxing and Wrestling. I will have some more time come next month, but I'm going to throw away more time and money traveling to NYC and training BJJ at Renzo Gracie's academy. I'm just a close minded individual and only think about training in the same styles that the top MMA fighters in the world train in.




-BRR

 

[Area5150]

but for standup throws/takedowns look towards bjj/jj/sambo/wrestling/judo/san shou/etc
good luck

I'm leary of BJJ. It doesn't appeal to me for several reasons.

1) If you're fighting outdoors, minus a mat, you damn well better be on top. I doubt you'd wanta be on the bottom fighting on concrete.

The second reason is more personal. Injuries are part of all sports, from basketweaving(carpal tunnel) on up to Muay Thai. But it appears to me that BJJ would provide for more injuries than most other disciplines. Am I a pussy? If you have to ask it in that context then you're an asshat. But I'll answer that question anyway.

Injuries=depression. If I can't lift weights, ride my bicycle near the ocean, go to the batting cages to hit baseballs, hit the heavybag, or get out of the house, then I become one depressed individual. I've always got to be able to move when I want to move anywhere, anytime. Being caged up at home drives me nuts! Naps are cool, but still I ain't no couch potato. I-can't-stand-being-shackled!

And as far as the "most fights wind up on the ground," thing goes, I don't buy it! I did when I first heard that back a few years ago, and back then it made alot of sense. But not anymore. But that's for another thread.

I like the idea of judo. I don't know alot about it, but it would appear they don't spend as much time engaged in combat while rolling around on the ground the way BJJ guys do. If that's true, then along with MT that might be the way for me to go.

 

[rgjujitsu]

Why the hate fellas? I am sure you could both teach each other something valuable.

 

[Judo Tom]

I'm leary of BJJ. It doesn't appeal to me for several reasons.

1) If you're fighting outdoors, minus a mat, you damn well better be on top. I doubt you'd wanta be on the bottom fighting on concrete.

you can win a street fight from the bottom if thats where you end up.. its not ideal but no fights are.. at least w/ bjj training you will be able to defend yourself from teh bottom and either get a submission or get a sweep so you can get back on top.

The second reason is more personal. Injuries are part of all sports, from basketweaving(carpal tunnel) on up to Muay Thai. But it appears to me that BJJ would provide for more injuries than most other disciplines.

if you are at a good club and have a good instructor bjj is a very very safe art to practice.. so dont discount it for that reason...

And as far as the "most fights wind up on the ground," thing goes, I don't buy it! I did when I first heard that back a few years ago, and back then it made alot of sense. But not anymore. But that's for another thread.

when 2 untrained people fight they will end up on teh ground. when 1 skilled person and 1 unskilled person fight the skilled guy should dictate where the fight goes.. if its 2 skilled guys then whoever has the skill advantage should dictate where teh fight goes. you want to be the one in control not the other guy

I like the idea of judo. I don't know alot about it, but it would appear they don't spend as much time engaged in combat while rolling around on the ground the way BJJ guys do. If that's true, then along with MT that might be the way for me to go.

ahh now your talking!! i mean i love judo and im very bias towards it but its all about how you train. if you train sport judo then yes our ground game is taught at a much much faster pace due to the nature of the sport

but bjj and judo are sooooo close it just comes down to what you want to focus on more.

bjj = 90% ground techniques. very little if any standing techniques taught in detail very very detailed due to the time spent and is a slower more controlled pace due to the sport.

judo = at least 50% standing but up to 90% at some clubs with great attention to detail on the throws and takedowns. the ground game is normally limited to chokes and armlocks only and there is normally less detail but it is at a faster pace due to the nature of the sport

again your instructor, the way he runs class and his students will normally have more of an effect then the actual style.. especially when they are so similar

also in judo you have more freedom to learn what you want to learn. this is kinda true in bjj as well but normally in bjj everyone is kinda learning or going over the same techniques .. in judo you normally work on your favorite technique or techniques over and over and developed a specialized game that suits you more and more as you develop.

but in your area there are great judo guys and great bjj guys so take a look around and let us know what you find

 

[Area5150]

Why the hate fellas? I am sure you could both teach each other something valuable.

There's no hate here, unless you're alluding to the little volley going on regarding Tai-Chi. But there's no hate here IMO, not on my part, nor on the part of others.

 

[Djimbe]

...

 

[Djimbe]

Why the hate fellas? I am sure you could both teach each other something valuable.

No Hate on MY part . Ive trained wih Phil Nurse in NYC in MT , and With Master K's Students , Master Danny's Students , Master Danny , Coban ...

I like MT Matches , and am a huge fan of the sport ! My wife trains in it !

 

[Djimbe]

I'm sorry bro. I'm too busy wasting my time training in less effective arts such as Muay Thai, Boxing and Wrestling. I will have some more time come next month, but I'm going to throw away more time and money traveling to NYC and training BJJ at Renzo Gracie's academy.

WELL YOURE IN LUCK !

MY CLASS is in NYC , and I have a Car ! Whenever youre going to be up here I have NO problem taking you to a class or two , our Taiji Schedule dosent Conflict with Renzos , Ill buy you a class with/Introduce you to Phil Nurse over at Wat if you dont learn SOMETHIGN effective with your time ! Wont cost you a thin dime . On top of that , Ill show you to som Restauraunts that you would NEVER have found on your own , IF youre an Adventurous Eater !!!

I'm just a close minded individual and only think about training in the same styles that the top MMA fighters in the world train in.

IF thats the guy you want to be , fine , but if youre unwilling to even be EXPOSED to something then dont you think that you should keep silent about it ? Your response is probably going to be "Its My Opinion" but really its NOT your Opinion , its your Predjudice ! Opinions are given on things Experienced Personally - I cant give an Opinion on a film that Ive never seen before , or a Meal that Ive not yet tasted , and if youve never been to a Non-McDojo IMA class then you cant give an OPINION either . You CAN give a Biased Prejudgement , however .

 

[Big Rick Rock]

WELL YOURE IN LUCK !

MY CLASS is in NYC , and I have a Car ! Whenever youre going to be up here I have NO problem taking you to a class or two , our Taiji Schedule dosent Conflict with Renzos , Ill buy you a class with/Introduce you to Phil Nurse over at Wat if you dont learn SOMETHIGN effective with your time ! Wont cost you a thin dime . On top of that , Ill show you to som Restauraunts that you would NEVER have found on your own , IF youre an Adventurous Eater !!!




IF thats the guy you want to be , fine , but if youre unwilling to even be EXPOSED to something then dont you think that you should keep silent about it ? Your response is probably going to be "Its My Opinion" but really its NOT your Opinion , its your Predjudice ! Opinions are given on things Experienced Personally - I cant give an Opinion on a film that Ive never seen before , or a Meal that Ive not yet tasted , and if youve never been to a Non-McDojo IMA class then you cant give an OPINION either . You CAN give a Biased Prejudgement , however .

I appreciate the invitation, but I'll have to pass. We went thru this conversation before. Being an employee here I'm prohibited from meeting board members. If I wasn't, I would have banged a bunch of chicks from the C&C forum already. Also, I do not need you to introduce me to Phil, I trained at his Gym for a while.

I don't think I need to keep quiet about anything either. We are here to talk about Martial Arts, 95% of the things I have said about Chinese Martial Arts have been mostly questions. I have asked a lot of questions. If you don't like the way I word my questions then... I'm Sorry, I'll try to word them better next time.


-Edited-




-BRR

 

[Yarg!]

Hey Djimbe, I'll take you up on your offer. Enlighten me the next time I'm in New York.

 

[Djimbe]

I appreciate the invitation, but I'll have to pass. We went thru this conversation before. Being an employee here I'm prohibited from meeting board members. If I wasn't, I would have banged a bunch of chicks from the C&C forum already. Also, I do not need you to introduce me to Phil, I trained at his Gym for a while.

I don't think I need to keep quiet about anything either. We are here to talk about Martial Arts, 95% of the things I have said about Chinese Martial Arts have been mostly questions. I have asked a lot of questions. If you don't like the way I word my questions then... I'm Sorry, I'll try to word them better next time.


-Edited-




-BRR

Dude , Im not going to beat you up .


And THIS :

Stay away from the Deadlier arts like Tai Chi, you may become too lethal as a stand-up grappler and really hurt or even kill people . The MMA guys who make a living fighting and have learned thru trial and error what works and what doesn't. Have stayed away from training the deadly art of Tai Chi for their clinch work and have instead opted to use the less effective and less deadly Muay Thai, Judo and Wrestling for their stand up grappling.




-BRR

Is not a question . Youre taking a piss on what you know bugger-all about .

 

[Djimbe]

Hey Djimbe, I'll take you up on your offer. Enlighten me the next time I'm in New York.

When will that be ? So long as Im not Snowed Out and Im In Town , no worries !

 

[Kane Fan]

i have never been to a muay thai school so im not sure how things are run there .. like how much time is spent doing kicks vs punches.. sparring vs drills etc etc.. but

i can say that what i have learned and seen is great especially the clinch and low leg kicks.. oh knnes and elbows are cool too

i would love to work more Muay Thai because i really like getting the clinch but i cant strike from there now.. just throw.. i would love to get good at thai strikes from teh clinch..

but for standup throws/takedowns look towards bjj/jj/sambo/wrestling/judo/san shou/etc

basically again it comes down to knowing what you want and then visiting schools til you find one that will help you.. going by style alone is not the way to do it

good luck

how is your Boxing?
you can do a lot of damage Clinch wise with some good tight Hooks and Uppercuts

 

[Kane Fan]

I'm leary of BJJ. It doesn't appeal to me for several reasons.

1) If you're fighting outdoors, minus a mat, you damn well better be on top. I doubt you'd wanta be on the bottom fighting on concrete.

The second reason is more personal. Injuries are part of all sports, from basketweaving(carpal tunnel) on up to Muay Thai. But it appears to me that BJJ would provide for more injuries than most other disciplines. Am I a pussy? If you have to ask it in that context then you're an asshat. But I'll answer that question anyway.

Injuries=depression. If I can't lift weights, ride my bicycle near the ocean, go to the batting cages to hit baseballs, hit the heavybag, or get out of the house, then I become one depressed individual. I've always got to be able to move when I want to move anywhere, anytime. Being caged up at home drives me nuts! Naps are cool, but still I ain't no couch potato. I-can't-stand-being-shackled!

And as far as the "most fights wind up on the ground," thing goes, I don't buy it! I did when I first heard that back a few years ago, and back then it made alot of sense. But not anymore. But that's for another thread.

I like the idea of judo. I don't know alot about it, but it would appear they don't spend as much time engaged in combat while rolling around on the ground the way BJJ guys do. If that's true, then along with MT that might be the way for me to go.

the problem with that combo is Judo is totally Clinch based (altho there is some shooting and stuff I suppose) and Mauy THai has the potential to wind up focusing on Clinch Strikes
which means your outside striking can be a problem
but if your aware of that and watch for it MT and Judo should be really solid

 

[Kane Fan]

No Hate on MY part . Ive trained wih Phil Nurse in NYC in MT , and With Master K's Students , Master Danny's Students , Master Danny , Coban ...

I like MT Matches , and am a huge fan of the sport ! My wife trains in it !

chick MT people are hot

 

[Kane Fan]

sounds awsome but I doubt I will ever be in New York