Is my coach trying to kill me?

[ForeverSmall]

Hey guys.

I've been a long time reader on many forums, especially this one. Never had a real reason to post a question until now. But first, a little about myself.

Currently 26, 6'0, 229 pounds. No more than 10% body fat. Have been lifting since high school, and starting bodybuilding when I was 21. First tried "the sauce" when I was 19, and starting blasting and cruising when I was 24. My goal for all of this is to become a Pro.

I recently started working with a new coach, and what he proposes I run drug wise is just insane to me. Want to see other peoples opinions about what he plans for me to run during the offseason.

Previous to this, my last cycle was 750mg Test, 800mg EQ, 600mg Deca for 16 weeks, with 100mg of Tren Ace, and 150mg of Mast Prop EOD, the last 8 weeks. Also am running 4iu of GH (pharm grade) and have been for about 2 years. I've also used slin, and igf-1.

Now this is what he wants me to run..

1500mg Test, 1200mg EQ, 900mg Primo, 800mg Deca, and 200mg Tren Ace ED.. all for 20 weeks. He also wants to bump the GH from 4iu to 8iu per day.. and run IGF-1, with Slin 4 weeks on/off throughout. Now, I am okay with the most of this.. but my only real concerns are the tren and gh dosages. I mean.. 1400mg a week of tren? That seems pretty insane.. right? Then doubling the GH?

Thoughts and opinions on this are appreciated.

 

[Mr. Chicago]

Yeah bro that guy is an idiot, plus it's literally like you told him what your last cycle was and he took that exact outline and just raised the doses to an insane level, definitely doesn't seem like he has an independent thought in his head. I definitely wouldn't trust this guy. If pro level is your goal then you're on the right track, just please be careful with the slin.

 

[Mr. Chicago]

And the tren wouldn't be 1400 week if it was 200 eod unless he indeed told you ed but yeah that's really high regardless and 20 weeks straight is just reckless, not to mention 8ius of growth, too much my man just keep doing what you're doing and don't get pushed into doing something you don't feel comfortable with.

 

[ForeverSmall]

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, I meant 200mg ED. Which I thought was just insane.

He knows what he is talking about.. He explained everything to me.. basically said that everything will work together to pack on as much mass as possible. That makes since, but I thought the dosages were a bit high still. I mean, what I ran for my last cycle would be considered high dosages by most people.. and now he want's more.. and for longer? Think I will have to talk to him more about it, or just keep doing my own thing.

Thanks for the input

 

[smalljohn]

more obviously yield more and its true.

I dont know how this shit works, but that coach want you swimming in them hormones. If that is so, its because YOU FUCKING WANTED to do so. Tips is all good, I can see why you are here. Insulin is no joke, but hey you're going pro level. I guess its required sooner or later.(not) You know better than this now, than do this cycle he has proposed to you though? Just give him the good ol'silly look and ask if he could please pull his head outa his ass, because that shit is starting to look ridicilous.

He knows his shit, good, but he doesnt own this shit, you specifically? You could always try increasing dosages and experiment upwards to succsess, but at your own pace. Im amazed by hearing about all these coaches dishing out stuff like this. I know people often do and coaches are people, but for fuck sake! Im glad i live in norway. I like the seasons and I like it being so calm and not overflow in such mentalities like coach.

 

[ForeverSmall]

Thanks for the reply brother.

I've used slin in the past.. both humulin r and humulog. I know what I am doing with that aspect.

And yes, you are correct.. I do want this. I was just curious to see if this was the extreme I thought it was.. or if this was the norm.

 

[Race121]

Damn, no offense intended, but that's quite the load before your coach came along. But, the big boys aren't running 400mg Test w/a D-Bol kicker either. I guess ya gotta pay to play on that level. Best wishes with your goals/career.

 

[Mr. Chicago]

Haha Jay Cutler only drinks protein and takes BCAA according to the magazines and ads he does. I think back to when I was 14 just starting my lifting career and I actually thought that haha damn we are all so naive at that age, and damn to all the money I wasted on some of that crap in the mags.

 

[Essie]

Hi foreversmall ... welcome to EF.

1st ... I hate it when people discuss slin ... that shit is really dangerous and you need to really know your shit about you if you are using it and what to check, when, how etc etc or you die.

Then, getting to the cycle he laid out for you ...

That is not really a bad cycle and if you are looking to turn Pro, then Bro, those are still reasonable dosages ... with some exceptions ...

TrenA @ 200mg ED for 20 weeks ... meaning you'll run 1.4g of Tren per week ... 28g of Tren of the 20 week cycle period? Is he nuts?

The Test, EQ, Primo and Deca are high-end dosages, but nothing more than any Pro BB is using. The GH @ 8iu is growing range dosage and not maintenance or fat furnace level, though I do not like the idea of GH as it can very easily lead to cancer-cell growth. IGF and slin I refuse to comment on ... that shit scares the hair off my ballsack, though I know that they work and wanting to go Pro, they are inevitable (did he mention if the igf is LR3?)... but the risk is just too high for the average Joe wanting to look good ... imho.

So, in conclusion:

The dosages of the TEST, EQ, Deca and Primo are fine for the level you are looking to get to, though you need to have proper on cycle support supplements and you other goodies like Aromasin (Test Aromatise Sides) and Caber (Deca, a 19-NOR sides) at hand.

The Tren dosage ... I don't think it is healthy OR advisable for anyone to run it at that high ... ever. 200mg EOD, maybe, but you have to be advanced ... not, NOT for the first time TREN user, and just thinking about the sides at that dosage ... ugh. Again, with Tren being a 19-NOR, have Caber at hand.

20 weeks is not really as bad as it sounds ... just costs more, but does, in fact, deliver better results, especially with the EQ in there.

You mentioned that you have been following a blast & cruise protocol, so I won't preach to you regarding PCT.

 

[Essie]

Haha Jay Cutler only drinks protein and takes BCAA according to the magazines and ads he does. I think back to when I was 14 just starting my lifting career and I actually thought that haha damn we are all so naive at that age, and damn to all the money I wasted on some of that crap in the mags.

School fees Bro ... everyone I know who lifts and is more or less my generation, has paid that price. Thinking, hoping and dreaming that the mass builder, weight gainer, hardgainer's hope, protein shake and meal replacements will get you to 240lbs carrying minimum BF ... LOL!

If I could get all that money back, I can lay down a decent deposit on a house, man! LOL!!!

 

[bonacris]

School fees Bro ... everyone I know who lifts and is more or less my generation, has paid that price. Thinking, hoping and dreaming that the mass builder, weight gainer, hardgainer's hope, protein shake and meal replacements will get you to 240lbs carrying minimum BF ... LOL!

If I could get all that money back, I can lay down a decent deposit on a house, man! LOL!!!

When I 1st joined a gym I bought flex magazine and tried Ronnie Coleman olympia workout.. so I arrived in the gym with my flex magazine, my cell tech and some cheap protein.. I must have looked like some tool

Sent from my GT-N7100 using EliteFitness

 

[Essie]

When I 1st joined a gym I bought flex magazine and tried Ronnie Coleman olympia workout.. so I arrived in the gym with my flex magazine, my cell tech and some cheap protein.. I must have looked like some tool

Sent from my GT-N7100 using EliteFitness

LMAO!!!!! And defo not the sharpest tool either! Thankfully I left my supps at home ... only thing I've taken in Gym (up until now) is water. I'll have my pre w/o shake in the kitchen, then after 30min walk around into my wendy in the backyard, hit the weights, walk back to the house, have a shower and chow my post w/o meal. Easy as piss.

 

[ForeverSmall]

Thanks again for the input guys.

I understand how dangerous slin can be, especially when it is combined with IGF-1 and GH. I've used it before and know what I am doing.

The IGF-1 is LR3, 100mcg pre-workout.

I learned some time ago that the majority of supplements are a waste of time and money. But it's a big business and people got to get paid haha.

 

[ForeverSmall]

Thank you guys for your help and feedback. I had a talk with my coach and we came up with a new approach.

1250mg Test, 900mg Primo, 800mg EQ, all for 20 weeks. Dropped the Deca down to 400mg a week. Then will be running Tren Ace starting at 50mg ED, and bumping the dose up every few weeks. Going 8 weeks on with it, 4 weeks off, and then finishing the last 8 weeks with it.

Also will be bumping up the GH to 6iu, instead of 8

Thanks again for your guys input. This set up seems a lot more realistic to me.

 

[SinisterUproar]

You got money to blow?

 

[ForeverSmall]

What do you mean? Are you insinuating that this is too much? Or if there should be more?

 

[stevesmi]

does more sauce equal more gains? there comes a point where it becomes counter productive, where it becomes abuse.

I don't care how much sauce you run, if you don't have the genetics, the intangibles, the motivation, the hard work, the hours, the sweat, the blood then you won't become a pro no matter how much juice you run! you think that Tom Brady became the best QB in the NFL by juicing? or was it because he had all what I listed. with no shirt on the guy looks like shit, but for whatever reason he was born to be a QB in the nfl and teams didn't even know it because in college and the NFL he was a backup early in his career and it took a little luck for him to show everyone wrong.. meanwhile brady Quinn looks like a bodybuilder, probably juiced up a storm since high school but the dude sucks as a QB yet everyone sucked his dick in college and when he got into the NFL. he didn't amount to dogshit cause he lacked what I wrote

there is no denying high dosages like this put a strain on your organs. even a moderate dose of gear will throw your cholest out of whack, now you are only 24 and do you really want your heart to become shit by the time you hit 30? its a decision you need to make. or you can enjoy the lifestyle and cycle off and on.. save your money and live a normal life. its all about decisions

 

[ForeverSmall]

Thank you for the input Stevemi. Very much appreciated. You make some very valid points. Personally, I have reached a point where gains don't come as easily as they used to. I think I cycle, and have cycles responsibly. I am doing everything I can to reach the goals I have.

 

[ForeverSmall]

Thanks you to the guys that gave me their opinions on this. Very much appreciated. My coach and I have had a lot of discussions and we have come up with something that is a little more realistic, at least to me. I started my blast/cruise today, and this is what it looks like.

Steroids:
Running 1500mg of Test, stacked with 800mg, of Deca. Decided to drop the EQ completely out. Added to the Test and Deca will be 400mg a week of Primo, and then 200mg of Tren E. Will be doing that for 16 weeks total. At about the half way point, the plan is to bump the Primo dosage to 600mg a week, and then Tren to 300mg. No orals are planned, but I will be front loading the cycle with a combo of prop, and npp. Have 2 vials of each, and will run 100mg/eod of both until the vials are finished.
GH, Slin and Peps:
Currently running 4iu of GH a week. I will be bumping that to 6iu. The plan is to eventually work up to 8iu a day, but I am going to stick with 6iu for now. Want to see how my body reacts to this. Also, in case you didn't know, GH is pretty expensive, especially pharm grade, and this will make it a little easier on the pocket book. Will be pulsing slin, humulin R, 4 weeks on/off. No more than 10iu a day. Will be taking post-workout. I will be taking IGF-1 LR3 while on the slin, 100mcg pre-workout. I have some GHRP-6 on hand. I don't plan on using it, but will add it in if I have any problems with hunger.
Support:
I am going to start with 1mg of Arimidex per day and adjust as needed. Going to get bloods done about 6 weeks in to see how everything looks. Also will be running .5mg, 3x a week of caber for the Deca and Tren. Also 100mcg a day of T4.

I measured in at 234 @ 9% body fat yesterday, 6'0 tall. My goal for this cycle is to put on a good amount of lean muscle and stay lean. I really don't want to go much above 10% body fat. If I can maintain 240lbs after cycle I will be happy.

Again, thank you guys for your input. I don't get on the boards much, but will try to update my progress every now and then for any one that is interested. Any questions, concerns, and suggestions are welcome.

Cheers!

 

[smalljohn]

I still think that is alot of gear.. Being pro in these days means what? A shortcoming fame and glory followed up with a few organ failures and death.
The old guys never did it like this and frankly the top bodybuilders today look nothing feasable(norwegian langauge failure?)

Maybe the gains really come on hard for you, because you are not a small man, but is really that can't be neccessary to make some decent gains. How the fuck can your body later down the road hold this mass? The bigger you were, the more shit and fallen you'll eventually look when you're older.

Ronnie and dorian looks shiet these days, i have no intention of being that beastlike. 90kg looks real good to me, but it depends on height ofcourse.
Some a musclefreaks, can't blame em, but stevesmi nails it on the head.

 

[Zinergy]

I don't know about that, I'm surprised you can even handle that much compound.

Personally I would start with what you did last year and taper up to the proposed doses.

 

[ForeverSmall]

Yes, I agree it is a lot of gear. No question about that one. But I find it more reasonable then what was first planned.

Becoming a pro is my goal, and it has been for many years. Will it happen? I don't know. But I am going to do everything I can to make it happen. Just because something isn't important to you, doesn't mean it isn't to someone else. I would much rather set goals that are hard to achieve, then something that any one can do.

As far as the old guys not doing it like this, I don't think that is entirely true. There are a lot of variables that come in to play that make each situation different. My father was a bodybuilder and competed in the 70's and early 80's. He isn't a household name by any means, but at one point, he shared the stage with many greats. I've talked to him about what kinds of cycles he and others ran, and if you think they were just using DBol, then you are greatly mistaken. Also, guys now are carrying around a lot more size then they did back then. They have pushed the threshold to going beyond genetic potential. So more is needed to maintain and keep growing. Don't get me wrong. People like Frank Zane look amazing, but I want to be bigger than them.

Thanks for you feedback though, I truly appreciate your insight.