Is Ephedrine Anti-catabolic???

[AlPhASiLvErBaCk]

I know clen is good but what about ephedrine?????

Is there any good supps or anything out there that prevents catabolism???zinc maybe?????????

 

[LittleHelp]

No. Ephedrine is not anti-catabolic.

 

[MrRTTB]

What I know it is, little but still some

 

[Frackal]

To a degree I believe it is yes

 

[macrophage69alpha]

slightly due to reduction of t4 to t3 conversion.

 

[Frackal]

not cortisol suppression macro?

 

[groundskeeperwilly]

I believe it is. I read it is something to do with preventing leucine oxidation or something along those lines...

 

[Nelson Montana]

Since ephedrine is a central nervous system stimulant/irritant, it's more likely to be catabolic than anti-catabolic.

If anyone can present evidence of ephedrine suppressing cortisol, I'd like to see it-- preferably something not conducted by Twin Lab.

macro: I was unaware than ephedrine inhibits conversion of T4 to T3. If that's the case, it's yet anothor reason it works against your goals of burning fat.

Ephedrine is one of the worst supplements available. But it has a noticable effect, which makes people believe it works. It doesn't -- not at burning fat at least. It only supresses appetite.

 

[macDbol]

whats the name of your book again so i make sure i dont ever buy it?

 

[nandi12]

I was unaware than ephedrine inhibits conversion of T4 to T3

It doesn't. It seems to have the opposite effect at least out to 12 weeks, according to the research I've seen. Then T3 levels start to drop. That is a good reason to cycle it.

Am J Clin Nutr 1985 Jul;42(1):83-94

Enhanced thermogenic responsiveness during chronic ephedrine treatment in man.

Astrup A, Lundsgaard C, Madsen J, Christensen NJ.

The thermogenic effect of a single oral dose of ephedrine (1 mg/kg body weight) was studied by indirect calorimetry in five women with 14% overweight before, during and 2 mo after 3 mo of chronic ephedrine treatment (20 mg, perorally, three times daily). Before treatment and 2 mo after its cessation a similar thermogenic response to ephedrine was observed. The total extra consumption of oxygen was 1.3 1 before and 1.2 1 after cessation of the chronic treatment. After 4 and 12 wk of treatment ephedrine elicited a more sustained response, the extra oxygen consumption in the 3 h following ephedrine intake being 7.0 and 6.9 1, respectively. The ratio of serum T3 to T4 increased significantly after 4 wk of treatment (15.6 +/- 1.3 vs 19.4 +/- 2.4; p less than 0.05), but decreased below the initial value after 12 wk treatment. The mean body weight was significantly reduced after 4 and 12 wk of treatment (2.5 and 5.5 kg, respectively). An improved capacity for beta-adrenergic induced thermogenesis may be useful in the treatment of obesity.

 

[RoNiN]

Since ephedrine is a central nervous system stimulant/irritant, it's more likely to be catabolic than anti-catabolic.

If anyone can present evidence of ephedrine suppressing cortisol, I'd like to see it-- preferably something not conducted by Twin Lab.

macro: I was unaware than ephedrine inhibits conversion of T4 to T3. If that's the case, it's yet anothor reason it works against your goals of burning fat.

Ephedrine is one of the worst supplements available. But it has a noticable effect, which makes people believe it works. It doesn't -- not at burning fat at least. It only supresses appetite.

ephedrine NOT a good fat burner!!! What the hell is this?!

Please could anyone else on this board either vouch or discredit this statment?

 

[JP@Ironology]

Since ephedrine is a central nervous system stimulant/irritant, it's more likely to be catabolic than anti-catabolic.

Probably true but not necessarily.

If anyone can present evidence of ephedrine suppressing cortisol, I'd like to see it-- preferably something not conducted by Twin Lab.

Don't know?

macro: I was unaware than ephedrine inhibits conversion of T4 to T3. If that's the case, it's yet anothor reason it works against your goals of burning fat.

Me too.

Ephedrine is one of the worst supplements available. But it has a noticable effect, which makes people believe it works. It doesn't -- not at burning fat at least. It only supresses appetite.

I would say ephedrine is NOT one of the worst supplements available. Potentially dangerous yes, worthless hell no. I have never had a problem with ephedrine. I especially like it with caffeine.

 

[macDbol]

ephedrine NOT a good fat burner!!! What the hell is this?!

Please could anyone else on this board either vouch or discredit this statment?

publicity stunt

 

[wilson6]

There has been at least one clinical study that I recall where subjects given EPH not only had enhanced fat loss, but experienced a decreased loss of lean mass during caloric restriction compared to the diet only group.

W6

 

[JG1]

whats the name of your book again so i make sure i dont ever buy it?

LMAO

 

[nandi12]

Since ephedrine is a central nervous system stimulant/irritant, it's more likely to be catabolic than anti-catabolic

There is not a wealth of data on ephedrine and nitrogen retention, but this study does suggest an anabolic effect.



Clin Sci (Lond) 1992 Jan;82(1):85-92

Effects of chronic administration of ephedrine during very-low-calorie diets on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and hormone levels in obese subjects.

Pasquali R, Casimirri F, Melchionda N, Grossi G, Bortoluzzi L, Morselli Labate AM, Stefanini C, Raitano A.

Istituto di Clinica Medica 1, Ospedale S. Orsola, University Alma Mater of Bologna, Italy.

1. We investigated the effects of the chronic administration of a sympathomimetic agent on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and levels of thyroid hormones and catecholamines in 10 obese subjects after a 6-week very-low-calorie-diet programme (1965 kJ, 60 g of protein, 45 g of carbohydrates). L-(-)-Ephedrine hydrochloride (50 mg three times a day by mouth) or placebo were administered during 2-week periods (weeks 2-5 of the VLCD programme) in a randomized, double-blind, cross-over design. Five subjects began with ephedrine and five with placebo. 2. The results were analysed separately in the two groups. No difference was found between them as regards weight loss during the very-low-calorie diet and drug treatments. Conversely, ephedrine therapy induced a significantly lower daily urinary excretion of nitrogen (and, consequently, a better nitrogen balance) with respect to placebo, independently of the drug sequence. Daily urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine during ephedrine and placebo treatments were similar. The fasting resting metabolic rate (oxygen consumption, ml STP/min) fell significantly during the very-low-calorie diet in both groups, but this effect was partially and significantly prevented by administration of ephedrine. Diet therapy significantly reduced 24 h urine levels of vanillylmandelic acid and homovanillic acid, which, however, increased to pretreatment values during ephedrine treatment. No significant effects were shown on 24 h urinary concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine during the very-low-calorie diet and/or ephedrine treatment.



www.cuttingedgemuscle.com

 

[JP@Ironology]

nandi12,

Excellent post bro.

 

[gimp]

it's as anti-catabolic as crack and meth.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Good point gimp.

macdbo: Please do not buy my book. You may be forced to learn something and you'll hurt your head.

Let's take a look at the last study nandi posted. (Thanks bro). It essentially showed no fat loss between the two groups. The only difference was less nitrogen excretion, which does NOT suggest anabolism. There can be several reasons for this, among which is prostate enlargement and thus, lessened urinary flow. (Epehedra can cause BPH).

The first study shows an elevation of thermogenisis (albiet slight) and a quick return to homeostatsis. That's the problem with all CNS. They jack you up, then the body adapts and the effects plateau.
That's not so bad in itself, but there's more.

Once you go off, the metablism is more sluggish than before, leading to...you guessed it, hoarding fat. In order to maintain a thermogenic state, you'd have to use so much, you'll feel like you're on DNP.
Ephedrine is a quick fix that, in the long run, works against your goals. But again, people think it works, because it does -- for a while. Can anyone seriously say they kept the fat off from a cycle of ephedrine? Chances are, it just gets harder and harder.
Ephedrine would be good for someone who needed a boost of energy for a specific activity. But long term use makes it a terrible choice for bodybuilders looking to build muscle and burn fat.

You know what's a proven anti-catabolic? Carbs.

 

[buffdoc]

There is not a wealth of data on ephedrine and nitrogen retention, but this study does suggest an anabolic effect.



Clin Sci (Lond) 1992 Jan;82(1):85-92

Effects of chronic administration of ephedrine during very-low-calorie diets on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and hormone levels in obese subjects.

Pasquali R, Casimirri F, Melchionda N, Grossi G, Bortoluzzi L, Morselli Labate AM, Stefanini C, Raitano A.

Istituto di Clinica Medica 1, Ospedale S. Orsola, University Alma Mater of Bologna, Italy.

1. We investigated the effects of the chronic administration of a sympathomimetic agent on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and levels of thyroid hormones and catecholamines in 10 obese subjects after a 6-week very-low-calorie-diet programme (1965 kJ, 60 g of protein, 45 g of carbohydrates). L-(-)-Ephedrine hydrochloride (50 mg three times a day by mouth) or placebo were administered during 2-week periods (weeks 2-5 of the VLCD programme) in a randomized, double-blind, cross-over design. Five subjects began with ephedrine and five with placebo. 2. The results were analysed separately in the two groups. No difference was found between them as regards weight loss during the very-low-calorie diet and drug treatments. Conversely, ephedrine therapy induced a significantly lower daily urinary excretion of nitrogen (and, consequently, a better nitrogen balance) with respect to placebo, independently of the drug sequence. Daily urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine during ephedrine and placebo treatments were similar. The fasting resting metabolic rate (oxygen consumption, ml STP/min) fell significantly during the very-low-calorie diet in both groups, but this effect was partially and significantly prevented by administration of ephedrine. Diet therapy significantly reduced 24 h urine levels of vanillylmandelic acid and homovanillic acid, which, however, increased to pretreatment values during ephedrine treatment. No significant effects were shown on 24 h urinary concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine during the very-low-calorie diet and/or ephedrine treatment.



Also, it's important to be careful when we quote these studies. First of all, the sample size here is quite small (10 subjects!). Statistical significance has questionable meaning with this few subjects.
Also, note that when the researchers talk about "significant" differences, they are speaking of STATISTICAL significance (based on p values <0.05; nothing more, nothing less). This does not necessarily imply ANYTHING about the CLINICAL significance of what is being studied, ie, how it effects us in the real world.

 

[nandi12]

Epehedra can cause BPH

Ephedra does not cause BPH. It mimics the symptoms of BPH by causing urinary retention, and a difficulty in voiding. It does this by acting as an agonist for alpha 1 receptors in the sphincter muscles at the base of the bladder, inhibiting their relaxation. I know from experience, since I took Hytrin (an alpha 1 antagonist) to help the urinary symtoms while I was taking Proscar to treat BPH.

A positive nitrogen balance DOES reflect protein assimilation and either reduced catabolism or increased anabolism. What one cannot conclude from this study is that the anticatabolic effect of the ephedrine is primarily due to decreased skeletal muscle breakdown or decreased organ tissue breakdown. This is why I used the general term anabolic, rather than stating specifically that the study suggests decreased skeletal muscle breakdown.

In fact, the lack of difference in 3-methylhistidine excretion (a marker of myofibrillar breakdown) would normally suggest that the ephedrine has no effect on skeletal muscle protein synthesis/breakdown. However, that may not be the case here since studies have shown that in both type 1 and type 2 diabetes overall nitrogen balance is a better marker of muscle protein kinetics than is 3-methylhistidine. Since these subjects were obese, there is an increased liklihood that some were type 2 diabetics. I certainly agree that it is impossible to draw any sweeping conclusions from one such study.