Is Bulking Necessary?

[Legion Kreinak]

Alright I hear to go through a bulking phase, then cutting phase for working out. But is it really necessary to go into a "bulking phase"? I mean, it doesn't make sense... You just cut cardio out of your workouts, and eat more calories than you burn. Then during the cutting, you do 30 minutes of cardio, 3 days a week lets say, and just burn more than you eat. Why not just do the cardio, burn more than you eat, and you'll still gain bulk, right? I mean, of course you'll gain at a slower pace, but you'll still gain.

Can someone give me a good reason to even BOTHER with a bulking phase, in which you put on weight anyway (most muscle, but you still get some fat too!)

 

[gmanlax7]

It is definalty worth it. The extra fat will be easy to get rid of later, and the muscle will stick around. Deal with the gut for a bit, and youll have the muscle forever. Think of it like a long term investment

 

[Legion Kreinak]

Wait but I don't understand why having the fat, makes the muscle stay. Doing cardio doesn't just make muscle go away, does it?

 

[gmanlax7]

Fat is easier to lose than muscle. So you will bulk, gaining both fat and muscle. Then you will cut, losing the fat while maintaining as much of the new muscle you put on during the bulking phase ass possible. make sense ?

 

[Legion Kreinak]

I know, I know that. But will I still gain bulk if I continue to burn more calories than I eat? Rather than going through 6 months of bulking and gaining fat, then 6 months of losing the fat, why not do it all at once?

 

[THE BOUNCER]

it's alot easier to gain muscle when you holding a few extra pounds of fat.

 

[Legion Kreinak]

Yeah my main Q here is... WHY is it easier? I don't get why...

 

[gmanlax7]

your gaining both fat and muscle easier cuz your EATING A SHITLOAD !! BOTTOM LINE - TONS OF CALS < TONS OF MASS, mass being both fat and muscle !!!!!!!!

 

[Legion Kreinak]

That... doesn't sound sensible. Calroies equal energy. How you use the energy determines your physique. If you don't, you'll get fatter. If you use it by weight lifting, you'll gain muscle. You shouldn't gain weight if you're using up your calories, and eating more calories than you burn just leaves you with fat on your body.

I heard that if you don't eat more than you burn, then you don't gain as much muscle. Now I realize, that has to be the biggest bunch of bullshit I've heard yet. Just because you don't eat as much doesn't mean you don't get muscle. As long as you have adequate protein, you're fine.

 

[gmanlax7]

im not teh authority on bulking here, but doesn't it make sense that to optimize muscle growth, you would eat 5,000 cals a day instead of 3,000 ? Wouldn't it make sense to eat 300 g of protein instead of 200 g when trying to put on muscle, big deal if there is a spillover and some of it turns into fat, at least your getting the most muscle growth you possibly can out of your body, which you wouldnt be doing if your not eating enough protein. LIVE WITH SOME FAT, GAIN MUSCLE, THANK ME LATER.

 

[Legion Kreinak]

Or, don't live with any fat, gain the same muscle but at a slower pace, and build everything equally, and then just shrug and say "Told ya' so".

 

[gmanlax7]

I'll bulk , you do your thing, lets check back in a year. I woulda said the same thing at 15 though, i was benching 4 times a week.

 

[Legion Kreinak]

Yeah, I'm benching 2/3 depending on if I decide to stay with my fullbody routine, come October. Otherwise I'll go split and train it 2 times a week. I do my research, and I also have common sense. Yes, you're right about optimal size gain, but I also don't want to get huge. I just want maybe the slightest size increase, so it's noticeable if you see before/after pictures, and then just get my BF% down so I look good. I don't care about being that strong, because even though I fight alot (whether it's actually a fight at school, or just sparring) I believe it all to be in the technique.

 

[JOKER47]

My take on the bulking vs non-bulking is this:

While I believe it IS possible to not put on extra fat and still gain quality muscle, the diet, amount of cardio, intensity/quality of ones workouts and the knowledge of how ones body works and responds to different stimuli, would be immense.
In other words, your diet would ABSOLUTELY have to PERFECT. Your workouts would HAVE to be PERFECT for your body type. You would also HAVE to know EXACTLY how your body will respond to different workouts, sets, reps, TUT, etc...

Most of us are still always learning about all of these things, and do not have close to perfection in any of them. (Some may be better than others.) One could spend literally YEARS trying to find the perfect answer to all of them, and still never find it.

It's much easier and, in many cases, more effective both in the short and long term, to live with the excess fat for the short term to gain the muscle, then cut the fat.

No one is telling you are wrong. But many of the guys in here have years of experience doing this. I am sure that all of us wanted the same thing at one time during our lifting "career". If you notice, the vets have all come to the same conclusion. And I don't think I will argue with Bouncers, Needsizes ans others physiques. They speak for themselves.

Just my .02,
Joker

 

[gettinlarger]

Or, don't live with any fat, gain the same muscle but at a slower pace, and build everything equally, and then just shrug and say "Told ya' so".

Not gonna happen bro. You could do it your way, but the muscle would come soooooo slowly. Food is the most anabolic thing out there. Which means, it makes you grow.

 

[louden_swain]

Bulking is necessary!! Like getinlarger said. . . eating is anabolic. If you fail to do so. . .you will ultimately be dissapointed with your gains.

 

[t3c]

People are giving you advice and you are so close minded. I have a friend that is just like you, he said he doesn't want to get fat so he restricts his calories so much...and hes weak and too skinny.

 

[scruples]

i've said it before -- why are you so reluctant to take the advice from so many experienced people (not that i am one of them, but i've learned a shitload from hanging out on this board, MOSTLY w/my mouth shut)??

the reason you're gonna gain some fat is because you NEED to be in caloric excess to gain weight... some of that weight will be fat, no doubt... but some of it will also be muscle -- and if your diet/training are in place then more will be muscle than fat... once you feel you're strong/big enough THEN cut down the body fat w/a caloric deficit -- just do it right though, otherwise you'll end up losing too much muscle...

i also don't know why you have this theme in your posts, "oh, i don't wanna get 'too' strong," or, "i don't wanna get 'too' big"... then why are you bothering anyway?!? it makes no sense...

 

[mlomker]

I heard that if you don't eat more than you burn, then you don't gain as much muscle. Now I realize, that has to be the biggest bunch of bullshit I've heard yet. Just because you don't eat as much doesn't mean you don't get muscle. As long as you have adequate protein, you're fine.

This is where you're mistaken. It takes calories for your body to build muscle. If you aren't eating enough food then your body won't have the components to build the muscle. To use an analogy, you are trying to build a house without enough lumber...good luck.

The reason lifters eat excessive calories is to maximize their muscle gain. Why lift hard if it doesn't do anything other than make you sore? There are scores of people in my gym that work out 3-4x week around me....they are staying small because their diet isn't right.

It sounds like that is the kind of body that are looking for, so maybe you are doing the right thing. Just don't be under the impression that guys like B-Fold could become a monster by using your dietary routine.

 

[bishonen]

i've said it before -- why are you so reluctant to take the advice from so many experienced people (not that i am one of them, but i've learned a shitload from hanging out on this board, MOSTLY w/my mouth shut)??

Ditto.

What's the point of asking for help and advice, if you're just going to ignore it when it's given to you?

Everybody here is helpful as can be, and very knowledgeable of what they speak. It's in your best interest to listen to what's being said, Legion.

 

[gmanlax7]

thanks for the back up fellas, i was getting beginning to get frustrated.

 

[coolcolj]

You can maintain you bodyfat and even decrease it while gaining muscle. I managed to maintain mine - see my before and afters thread

You just have to be smart about your diet and zig-zag it. Most people are lazy, its much easier to pigout

The thing is, fat cells can multiply when you get to a certain point, and once you have em, you can't get rid of them, only shrink em. Ie you will never have a "thin" a skin as you once had.
That's why its good practise to get as lean as you can if you decide to bulk. No point at bulking at >15-20% BF, your just gonna hurt yourself in the long run

 

[b fold the truth]

You just have to be smart about your diet and zig-zag it. Most people are lazy, its much easier to pigout

That's why its good practise to get as lean as you can if you decide to bulk. No point at bulking at >15-20% BF, your just gonna hurt yourself in the long run

Bulking is easier? Bulking is being lazy? Hardly...try eating a nice bulking diet...it is HARD!!!

I don't suggest being 20%bf and being a male...but nothing wrong with being 15% at all...

Remember...as long as you are a newbie and in your first several years of training...and are not that big...EVERYTHING will work. Try going from 230-260 on a maintenance diet...

B True

 

[coolcolj]

well 230-260 scaled back for my body type and height would be about 210-240.

We will see, I'm hoping to be at 220 by Christmas

And then I'll shut up shop, that's more than big enough for my needs. I still wanna be able to scratch my back

 

[gmanlax7]

tough, but fun ! well, sometimes.

 

[greddyspeed916]

im at 20% body fat and i want to get a lil bigger?? what should i do?? lift more til i get to where i want then start cutting, or should i drop the body fat percentage first??

 

[Kid Dynamite]

You'll lose fat quick and keep most muscle if you cut after bulking because:
-Eating extra calories will speed you metabolism, and your body will be used to burning a high amount, you drop calories for a few weeks and for the most part it's still cranked up.
-Muscle burns more calories. More oxygen uptake when you do anything (even sitting on your ass) will burn more calories if you've got extra muscle. Basically...I'm not sure if I worded this too well, hopefully you'll get the point.

 

[Vortexx]

Like someone said your diet and timing should be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT if you wanna gain muscle without fat. in fact you should walk around 24/7 with a bagback filled with tubes of carbohydrates / insuline / amino/acids that will be released IV by a computer that measures your bloodlevels every 5 minutes and automatically adjusts your bloodbalance to favourable anabolic levels or releases some anti-cortisol agents on demand or some extra adrenaline if you are going for a heavy squat....


In fact I have the feeling that this cyborg approach WILL actualy happen by top ranking pro's in the near future. Bodybuilders are willing to try ANY trick to get that small edge against the competition, even it is potentially dangerous (DNP etc.)

Meanwhile for the rest of us, we better stick to common sense and use the frequent small meals scenario to take care that we avoid spikes in our blood so that we can bulk with a favourable muscle to fat ratio. Also the reason that you need that a few pounds of intramuscular fat is that it plays a role in the regeneration of ATP using the creatinephospate cycle etc. Also eating fats (especially the healthy fish oils) will promote the release of hormones by your body.

Sure in theory it is ppossible to saturate your body to exact demand but many people that try that will fail. In practise only bb that have been training for a very long time , like Robbie Robinson (he is NEVER more than 2 weeks away from contest time!!!) learned exactly the needs of their body and also he has the basic size and muscle maturity, so he doens't have to go thru a basic bulking and cutting phase.....

Hope that this encourages you to don't shy away from bulking just focus during this phase on the basic squats and deadlifts to assure that a great deal of that lump clay is muscle that you can refine and shape during the cutting phase adding more isolation exercises and cardio

And BTW: the proes bulk up to ridiculous fat percentages, hoovering around at 300 lbs with 30 percent fat sometimes, but than again they have special chemical assistense like lasix, DNP and T3, clenny etc to get rid of that lard, you should definately not copy their bulking scenario without those goodies/knowledge

 

[AMBB4L]

If you're not looking to put on a lot of muscle (which is what you seem to be saying by your odd maintaining diet), try a calorie cycle diet. One where you eat 20cal per 1lb on training days and 10cal per 1lb and on non-training days. your gains will pale in comparison to a typical bulking diet, but you won't put on as much mass. This cyclic diet is from Mr. X's bulking article. Check it out.

 

[Cap'n Cooke]

man, i thought like this, too. i worked out for MONTHS and didn't get the gains I wanted. why not? I didn't EAT.

now I've been eating 3400+ cals/day for the past months, and I can DEFINITELY notice an increase in muscle mass. since i've been doing it cleanly, my fat gains are small, but i've still gained a bit.

it's worth it.

 

[DanielBishop]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread so the question might've been cleared up.... but anyway....

From what I've gathered, the theory is this:

To gain muscle to the utmost capacity, you need a whole lot of calories, and a whole lot of protein.

There are very narrow limits. If you don't get enough calories and protein, your body will start to eat itself.... either muscle or fat. If you get too much, your body will store the excess.... fat.

It's extremely hard to get the EXACT amount of calories and protein, to achieve maximum growth.... without going under (and losing muscle, or gaining it slower) or over (and gaining fat).... your activity levels change every day, your metabolism fluctuates and usually you don't eat the same things each and every day.

And so, most bodybuilders aim for a SURPLUS of calories and protein. That is, they eat a whole lot to make sure they've got well and truly enough each day, so their body won't start eating itself. More often than not, they go OVER the body's requirement and store some as fat.... but to them, gaining some fat is a small price to pay, for knowing you're getting enough calories and protein, and gaining maximum muscle.

I'm the opposite. While I'd like to gain muscle as fast as possible, I'm not prepared to get fat because of it.... and it's almost impossible to take in the exact amount of protein and calories without going under or over. So, from now on I'm staying lean.... and I'll try to get it as close as possible, but I accept that I'll be gaining muscle slower than I could be.