Interesting Revelation About PRIMOBOLAN

[Nelson Montana]

I have a client who's on 400 mgs of Primo and on my suggestion, just 100 mgs of test for some androgen and libido maintenance.

6 weeks in, he's up 12 pounds and hard as nails. I swear he's lost fat and he's eating like a horse. (Clean though). The only supplements he used was BIG BLAST and DX7. (No need for UNLEASHED with Primo since it lowers SHBG. No need for POST CYCLE because it doesn't aromatize, though I'd advise it afterward for PCT).

Anyway, he had a blood test 2 weeks ago and just got the results. Everything is perfect but here's a curious twist. His testosterone was 2150!

Now 100 mgs of test isn't enough to boost T that high so it's got to be Primo -- you know, the stuff they say ISN'T ANDROGENIC. AND DOESN'T SUPRESS!

ALL steroids are androgens. And even one as mild as Primo will affect T level and production. It also debunks the need for needing 300, 400, 500 and more mgs of test with a cycle.

It also shows that you can have superphysiological levels of test and be able to recover pretty easily -- as anyone who's done a Primo cycle will attest.

So once again, all these gram cycles and drol, d-bol, mega test dosages etc -- it's all bullshit. You need just a slight elevation in T and increased nitrogen retention. So Primo really is the optimum steroid , and ironically, something that is even LESS androgenic and MORE anabolic would be even better.

Maybe someday.

 

[mickeyb69]

Maybe Needto can come up with a bigger and better oral clone of this. LOL

 

[enacer420nj]

<3 primo

 

[perryscoon]

I am going to try this drug, finally. Sounds great.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I'm sold on Primo... just buying some time (literally *laugh*)

But I've been meaning to make a thread about AAS dosages... I completely agree with Nelson about the dosages of ANY AAS... they are just way overdone... I was guilty of it when I first started... and it took several years of being on a moderate dosage of HRT to realize that the body responds nicely to even just a little over physiological levels of test...

Also, been dabbling with some left over NPP and only running 200mg week... honestly, I started running it for a slight anabolic boost but more so for it's collagen-boosting properties... I keep reading that article that says lower dosages increase collagen synthesis exponentially while higher dosages has the opposite effect. So far, I'm getting a nice BOOST (hell, even libido is up, and that's bizarre for me because in the past, deca has always KILLED my libido).

Moral of the story, you don't need crazy amounts of test, deca, etc. etc. to get pretty damn good results (you do need to kill it at the gym, eat right and get rest though...that's a must!)

 

[centeroiler]

Then it looks like I chose wisely with my current cycle. 500mg Primobolan and 250mg Testosterone Enanthate EW. Oh, and a little Dieselbolan to kick start and Anavar the last 8 weeks to finish strong. I just started, but I'm feeling even better and better about it after reading something like this thread.

At different points on this cycle I'm going to have blood work done. I'll post the results to see if it holds true.

 

[00pump]

Very intresting...

Thanks for that!

 

[genetics]

I have a client who's on 400 mgs of Primo and on my suggestion, just 100 mgs of test for some androgen and libido maintenance.

Could you tell me 100mgs of which test sir?

 

[swole]

nelson...shhhh!!!

 

[aquatic_glories]

thanks for sharing

 

[ConanX]

Excellent! The vision for my summer cycle was a low dose of Test, probably 1cc/250mg e/w and 400mg Primo e/w for 12 weeks. Ending it with weeks 6-12 Anavar 60mg e/d. I was thinking some Winni to kickstart it but that might be too much and not worth it.

Thamks for sharing Nelson.

 

[enacer420nj]

Excellent! The vision for my summer cycle was a low dose of Test, probably 1cc/250mg e/w and 400mg Primo e/w for 12 weeks. Ending it with weeks 6-12 Anavar 60mg e/d. I was thinking some Winni to kickstart it but that might be too much and not worth it.

Thamks for sharing Nelson.

Similar to what im running now
1-15 375 test enth
1-15 500 primo
9-15 var 40mg ED

 

[Barch]

Similar to what im running now
1-15 375 test enth
1-15 500 primo
9-15 var 40mg ED

+1!

Prop 225mg/week
Primo 450mg/week
Anavar 40mg/day

 

[Nelson Montana]

Similar to what im running now
1-15 375 test enth
1-15 500 primo
9-15 var 40mg ED

With cycles like this you probably need no dex during the cycle and may not even need any PC, or at least VERY little. (375mgs is borderline, depending on how sensitive you are)

If you use POST CYCLE and Sustain, that should be enough to control the slight elevation in e.

The only disparity I'd have with this is 40 mgs of var for 6 weeks. That's more liver toxic than people realize. And you really won't need it. A couple of weeks to solidify the gains is all you need. You won't grow much more muscle after that and staying on longer will just delay recovery.

 

[ConanX]

With cycles like this you probably need no dex during the cycle and may not even need any PC, or at least VERY little. (375mgs is borderline, depending on how sensitive you are)

If you use POST CYCLE and Sustain, that should be enough to control the slight elevation in e.

The only disparity I'd have with this is 40 mgs of var for 6 weeks. That's more liver toxic than people realize. And you really won't need it. A couple of weeks to solidify the gains is all you need. You won't grow much more muscle after that and staying on longer will just delay recovery.

So, if one were to run Var with that cycle, do you think 4 weeks is a bit more reasonable? Also, what is a good low dose of Primo to see gains? Is 400mg minimum? is 300mg worth it?

And thanks Enacer for lettin' me know that my cycle made sense. How are you liking it so far?

 

[Nelson Montana]

So, if one were to run Var with that cycle, do you think 4 weeks is a bit more reasonable? Also, what is a good low dose of Primo to see gains? Is 400mg minimum? is 300mg worth it?

And thanks Enacer for lettin' me know that my cycle made sense. How are you liking it so far?

400 seems to be the sweet spot for most people. Less won't impress and more is "more than you need."

I'd never go over 4 weeks with any oral.

 

[aquatic_glories]

400 seems to be the sweet spot for most people. Less won't impress and more is "more than you need."

I'd never go over 4 weeks with any oral.

Nelson,

do you think introducing new AAS after week 7-9 will allow for continous gains or at least visuably faster??

 

[goin on 4T]

Nelson:
Which do you recomend injectable or oral?
Thanks

 

[dmc777]

Interesting. Nelson, is this his first cycle or what's his previous history with AAS?

 

[doublebicep]

Anyway, he had a blood test 2 weeks ago and just got the results. Everything is perfect but here's a curious twist. His testosterone was 2150!

Now 100 mgs of test isn't enough to boost T that high so it's got to be Primo -- you know, the stuff they say ISN'T ANDROGENIC. AND DOESN'T SUPRESS!

Interesting. 2150 on 400 mg of Primo and 100 mg of test?

Primo raising test levels does not seem possible?

Is it possible or even likely that his test levels will drop after a few more weeks on Primo and 100 mg of test?

This is an interesting case.

Maybe you could keep us updated on your client's progress?

Anyway, interesting case...thank you Nelson!

 

[ConanX]

Thanks a lot Nelson, I appreciate it.

 

[kidd73]

Damn it Nelson! First A-Rod blows the lid on Primo (albeit lying out loud while doing so), and now this! Next time I re-up it's going to cost even more.
You're not supoosed to talk about fight club.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Questions! Questions Questions!

Introducing a new steroid doesn't make a difference. It's all nitrogen retention and androgen reception.

Oral primobolan is not cost effective -- unless you have an extra $1000 a week to throw around.

My clients T may drop but it's doubtful most of that was natural test.

Yes, it may be a good time to buy stock in Primobolan. Everyone wants it!

 

[hiasdamoon]

With cycles like this you probably need no dex during the cycle and may not even need any PC, or at least VERY little. (375mgs is borderline, depending on how sensitive you are)

If you use POST CYCLE and Sustain, that should be enough to control the slight elevation in e.

The only disparity I'd have with this is 40 mgs of var for 6 weeks. That's more liver toxic than people realize. And you really won't need it. A couple of weeks to solidify the gains is all you need. You won't grow much more muscle after that and staying on longer will just delay recovery.

This is quite interesting. So your saying the PC would actually be less intense and still would maximize keeping gains. Of course is someone was to run Test above 375 then normal PCT would be required. This could change the way people do cycles forever..Thanks for the information Nelson!

 

[doublebicep]

Questions! Questions Questions!

I know I sure do appreciate what you share Nelson.

Thank you!

 

[Nelson Montana]

I know I sure do appreciate what you share Nelson.

Thank you!

Always glad when someone can get something out of a post.

 

[soupeater]

any updates?

 

[C0LUMB0]

any updates?

updates on what ? this thread is more than a year old

 

[10001110101]

Anyway, he had a blood test 2 weeks ago and just got the results. Everything is perfect but here's a curious twist. His testosterone was 2150!

Now 100 mgs of test isn't enough to boost T that high so it's got to be Primo -- you know, the stuff they say ISN'T ANDROGENIC. AND DOESN'T SUPRESS!

ALL steroids are androgens. And even one as mild as Primo will affect T level and production. It also debunks the need for needing 300, 400, 500 and more mgs of test with a cycle.

It also shows that you can have superphysiological levels of test and be able to recover pretty easily -- as anyone who's done a Primo cycle will attest.

So once again, all these gram cycles and drol, d-bol, mega test dosages etc -- it's all bullshit. You need just a slight elevation in T and increased nitrogen retention. So Primo really is the optimum steroid , and ironically, something that is even LESS androgenic and MORE anabolic would be even better.

Maybe someday.

Once again, the leaps of logic are amazing.

First, those tests, like you say, detect androgens, so they are somewhat non-specific for testosterone, and all AAS in the blood stream will increase the levels (this is not 1:1).

I'm not sure how this in any way "debunks" the supposed "need" to use above-gram dosages of AAS, or that these high doses are somehow "bullshit". Gains made on steroids are dose-dependent, period. They are also dependent on training, diet, genetics, and a million other variables, but when considering just this one variable in isolation, muscular hypertrophy and strength increases are absolutely dose-dependent with relation to AAS usage.

Certainly a person can understand that you can achieve supraphysiologic levels of androgens by administering exogenous steroids to elicit said effect.

You praise primobolan for its "potency" as an androgen, then also praise the ease at which you recover from it. Well which is it? The two statements are mutually exclusive.

You then go on to assert, based on a completely failed attempt at logical persuasion, that "primo really is the optimum steroid."

Not to mention that the 100mg/wk of testosterone is completely relevant and significant to these findings. 100mg/wk is commonly prescribed for upper-range testosterone replacement therapy, and provides the anabolic benefit necessary to distinguish a male athlete from a female (rather substantial, many would agree).

Seriously, this isn't even pseudoscience.

 

[dr.shavargo]

what about test in cycles not including primobolan?

say a cycle of 50mg Tren Ace ED with only 100mg of test/week? doesnt sound apealing to me personally... but if theres more info on this type of thing id like to know

 

[Nelson Montana]

Once again, the leaps of logic are amazing.

First, those tests, like you say, detect androgens, so they are somewhat non-specific for testosterone, and all AAS in the blood stream will increase the levels (this is not 1:1).

I'm not sure how this in any way "debunks" the supposed "need" to use above-gram dosages of AAS, or that these high doses are somehow "bullshit". Gains made on steroids are dose-dependent, period. They are also dependent on training, diet, genetics, and a million other variables, but when considering just this one variable in isolation, muscular hypertrophy and strength increases are absolutely dose-dependent with relation to AAS usage.

Certainly a person can understand that you can achieve supraphysiologic levels of androgens by administering exogenous steroids to elicit said effect.

You praise primobolan for its "potency" as an androgen, then also praise the ease at which you recover from it. Well which is it? The two statements are mutually exclusive.

You then go on to assert, based on a completely failed attempt at logical persuasion, that "primo really is the optimum steroid."

Not to mention that the 100mg/wk of testosterone is completely relevant and significant to these findings. 100mg/wk is commonly prescribed for upper-range testosterone replacement therapy, and provides the anabolic benefit necessary to distinguish a male athlete from a female (rather substantial, many would agree).

Seriously, this isn't even pseudoscience.

I'm not sure what you fell is illogical. It sounds like you're just looking for an argument. My point is, a mild steroid like Primo will also raise T -- not as much as straight T, but you don;t ned an insane elevation to get the benefits as long as you're getting the nitrogen retention. What's illogical?

 

[rockdoc]

Could it be possible that the primo he's using is really test?

 

[Fatboy1984]

that would be crazy if it really was T.
Either way. I cant wait to try Primo. Just wish it was cheaper. Im also on TRT. and would like to do small blasts and cruises with primo for about a year and see what happens.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Could it be possible that the primo he's using is really test?

500 mgs of test would raise T higher and cause more bloat -- but then again, it could be low dose cut with test to give it some kick, ya never know. Good point.

 

[needtogetaas]

I have a client who's on 400 mgs of Primo and on my suggestion, just 100 mgs of test for some androgen and libido maintenance.

6 weeks in, he's up 12 pounds and hard as nails. I swear he's lost fat and he's eating like a horse. (Clean though). The only supplements he used was BIG BLAST and DX7. (No need for UNLEASHED with Primo since it lowers SHBG. No need for POST CYCLE because it doesn't aromatize, though I'd advise it afterward for PCT).

Anyway, he had a blood test 2 weeks ago and just got the results. Everything is perfect but here's a curious twist. His testosterone was 2150!

Now 100 mgs of test isn't enough to boost T that high so it's got to be Primo -- you know, the stuff they say ISN'T ANDROGENIC. AND DOESN'T SUPRESS!

ALL steroids are androgens. And even one as mild as Primo will affect T level and production. It also debunks the need for needing 300, 400, 500 and more mgs of test with a cycle.

It also shows that you can have superphysiological levels of test and be able to recover pretty easily -- as anyone who's done a Primo cycle will attest.

So once again, all these gram cycles and drol, d-bol, mega test dosages etc -- it's all bullshit. You need just a slight elevation in T and increased nitrogen retention. So Primo really is the optimum steroid , and ironically, something that is even LESS androgenic and MORE anabolic would be even better.

Maybe someday.

Bro a bridge+need2slin combo added with some primo or even light test dose!!!! Now that is the shit. Primo truly is the god of all steroids and no one can make a real argument against that.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Bro a bridge+need2slin combo added with some primo or even light test dose!!!! Now that is the shit. Primo truly is the god of all steroids and no one can make a real argument against that.

Lots of roid/supp combos would work very well. But GEAR goes with everything.

 

[rockdoc]

500 mgs of test would raise T higher and cause more bloat -- but then again, it could be low dose cut with test to give it some kick, ya never know. Good point.

Given that Primo is supposedly the most faked steroid and that it would most likely be faked by using low-dose test, it seems to me a logical explanation for the elevated test.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Given that Primo is supposedly the most faked steroid and that it would most likely be faked by using low-dose test, it seems to me a logical explanation for the elevated test.

I'm not so sure. Even if someone does Shering Primo and gets a blood test, you can say it wasn't real Primo. And low does test does not produce the same gains. HArd call though. But realize, ALL steroids are androgenic. Even Anavar will raise T to a degree.

 

[WinnyPumps]

So anywhere from 400-500mg wk is plenty for Primo? I've wanted to try this for so long, starting very soon.

Test 400mg wk
Primo 500 mg wk
Masteron 100mg eod

 

[Ross]

I'm not so sure. Even if someone does Shering Primo and gets a blood test, you can say it wasn't real Primo. And low does test does not produce the same gains. HArd call though. But realize, ALL steroids are androgenic. Even Anavar will raise T to a degree.

Anavar(and other anabolic steroids) will not increase TESTOSTERONE levels, they will increase ANDROGEN levels. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Anavar(and other anabolic steroids) will not increase TESTOSTERONE levels, they will increase ANDROGEN levels. BIG DIFFERENCE.

What other androgens are in the body besides testosterone?

 

[jsl1492]

Interesting. 2150 on 400 mg of Primo and 100 mg of test?

Primo raising test levels does not seem possible?

Is it possible or even likely that his test levels will drop after a few more weeks on Primo and 100 mg of test?

This is an interesting case.

Maybe you could keep us updated on your client's progress?

Anyway, interesting case...thank you Nelson!

I question the results as well.

Primobolan has no effect whatsoever on testosterone levels (Run as a stand alone it will actually shut you down as it is a DHT derrivative)

So the level of 2150 ng/dl was supposedly achieved with only 100mgs of test.

Sorry, but the numbers simply don't add up.

It seems more than likely that the person in question is taking a lot more than 100mgs of test/week.

 

[jsl1492]

I would agree with the earlier assertion that the primo is actually test, because 500mg of test/week could in theory produce a 2150ng/dl test level.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I question the results as well.

Primobolan has no effect whatsoever on testosterone levels (Run as a stand alone it will actually shut you down as it is a DHT derrivative)

So the level of 2150 ng/dl was supposedly achieved with only 100mgs of test.

Sorry, but the numbers simply don't add up.

It seems more than likely that the person in question is taking a lot more than 100mgs of test/week.

All steroids will suppress testosterone but they also add testosterone. That's where you're confused

 

[Ross]

I question the results as well.

Primobolan has no effect whatsoever on testosterone levels (Run as a stand alone it will actually shut you down as it is a DHT derrivative)

So the level of 2150 ng/dl was supposedly achieved with only 100mgs of test.

Sorry, but the numbers simply don't add up.

It seems more than likely that the person in question is taking a lot more than 100mgs of test/week.

Bingo.

 

[Ross]

What other androgens are in the body besides testosterone?

Androgens are MALE SEX HORMONES, *ALL anabolic steroids are classified ANDROGENS. Testosterone happens to be a naturally ocurring androgen, as is Dihydrotestosterone(a 5a-Reductase metabolize of Testosterone).

By increasing ANDROGEN levels, you increase androgenic activity and masculinzation. All steroids increase androgen levels and androgenic activity to some extent, Primobolan and Anavar being two of the LEAST androgenic of the steroids.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Androgens are MALE SEX HORMONES, *ALL anabolic steroids are classified ANDROGENS. Testosterone happens to be a naturally ocurring androgen, as is Dihydrotestosterone(a 5a-Reductase metabolize of Testosterone).

By increasing ANDROGEN levels, you increase androgenic activity and masculinzation. All steroids increase androgen levels and androgenic activity to some extent, Primobolan and Anavar being two of the LEAST androgenic of the steroids.

You're not getting it Ross. Just because its the least androgenic does not mean it is NON androgenic -- as you yourself are saying. When you say ALL SEX HORMONES you're saying all testosterone.

 

[jsl1492]

With cycles like this you probably need no dex during the cycle and may not even need any PC, or at least VERY little. (375mgs is borderline, depending on how sensitive you are)

If you use POST CYCLE and Sustain, that should be enough to control the slight elevation in e.

The only disparity I'd have with this is 40 mgs of var for 6 weeks. That's more liver toxic than people realize. And you really won't need it. A couple of weeks to solidify the gains is all you need. You won't grow much more muscle after that and staying on longer will just delay recovery.

Oxandrolone is not filtered by the liver. It is filtered by the kidneys.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Oxandrolone is not filtered by the liver. It is filtered by the kidneys.

Also the liver.

 

[Ross]

You're not getting it Ross. Just because its the least androgenic does not mean it is NON androgenic -- as you yourself are saying. When you say ALL SEX HORMONES you're saying all testosterone.

What are you talking about Nelson? Obviously, ALL steroids exhibit some androgenic effects, they are MALE sex hormones, I just said this. THEY DO NOT INCREASE TESTOSTERONE, however, which is what you are failing to understand my man.

 

[Ross]

You're not getting it Ross. Just because its the least androgenic does not mean it is NON androgenic -- as you yourself are saying. When you say ALL SEX HORMONES you're saying all testosterone.

No, ALL SEX HORMONES = Testosterone, Nandrolone, Methenolone, Methanrostenolone, Stanozolol, Drostanolone, Oxandrolone, Mesterolone, etc etc etc

All steroids = SEX HORMONES

 

[Nelson Montana]

No, ALL SEX HORMONES = Testosterone, Nandrolone, Methenolone, Methanrostenolone, Stanozolol, Drostanolone, Oxandrolone, Mesterolone, etc etc etc

All steroids = SEX HORMONES

I said IN THE BODY. The body doesn't produsce nandrolone, stanozolol, etc.

 

[jsl1492]

All steroids will suppress testosterone but they also add testosterone. That's where you're confused

Just quoting the post I corrected for posterity.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Just quoting the post I corrected for posterity.

jsi -- a bit of advice. You're treading very close to being a troll. Here at EF, we encourage debate. But if you think you're going to come on here and think you're going to CORRECTING people, especially when you're wrong, you won't be here for long.

I've been at this a long time. And I don't mean just on message boards. I'm not going to run down my resume for you but let's say even if you disagree, I'd appreciate if you didn't talk to me like some stupid kid who needs you to clarify anything, because I'm pretty sure I know at least as much as you do, okay big guy?

The name of the game is respect. I'll have it for you and I expect you to have it for me and EVERYONE on this board. Capise? Because, if not, you're gone. Your choice.

 

[jsl1492]

jsi -- a bit of advice. You're treading very close to being a troll. Here at EF, we encourage debate. But if you think you're going to come on here and think you're going to CORRECTING people, especially when you're wrong, you won't be here for long.

I've been at this a long time. And I don't mean just on message boards. I'm not going to run down my resume for you but let's say even if you disagree, I'd appreciate if you didn't talk to me like some stupid kid who needs you to clarify anything, because I'm pretty sure I know at least as much as you do, okay big guy?

The name of the game is respect. I'll have it for you and I expect you to have it for me and EVERYONE on this board. Capise? Because, if not, you're gone. Your choice.

How exactly is it being a troll if you point out something that is clearly incorrect?

What you stated is factually 100% dead wrong.

At this point, I think you're just too proud to admit that what you stated was wrong so I will
re-post what I stated in the deleted post.

Explain how methenolone (which is a DHT derrivative) increases T levels?

I'm not exactly asking for much here. I'm simply asking for you to back up your original assertion.

If you can explain how methenolone converts to testosterone in the body, I will be more than happy to admit that you were right and I was wrong.

 

[jsl1492]

From a bio-chemistry standpoint:

Testosterone is converted to the active metabolites alpha-DHT and E2 in the body.

Methenolone is a modified 17 Beta-Testosterone ester (i.e a DHT derrivative)

If you can point out the enzymatic process where a modified 17 Beta- testosterone ester increases T- levels I would be grateful because I can't see it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

How exactly is it being a troll if you point out something that is clearly incorrect?

What you stated is factually 100% dead wrong.

At this point, I think you're just too proud to admit that what you stated was wrong so I will
re-post what I stated in the deleted post.

Explain how methenolone (which is a DHT derrivative) increases T levels?

I'm not exactly asking for much here. I'm simply asking for you to back up your original assertion.

If you can explain how methenolone converts to testosterone in the body, I will be more than happy to admit that you were right and I was wrong.

Primo is actually a DHB derivative. So you're wrong about that. But that's not the point. It's your attitude dude. Discuss. Don't deride.

 

[jsl1492]

It's not DNB. That's an incorrect assumption that has been floating around for years (I have no idea why it hasn't died yet) The truth
is actually that methenolone has a structure that is very similar to DHB, but is still a DHT derrivative.

In any event, DHB and DHT have similar pharmokinetics as they are both affected by the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme.

And I am discussing things in a civil manner. Specifically, I'm trying to discuss how methenelone could raise T levels.

One thing I have noticed. You state that primo doesn't aromatize yet you you claim that it raises T levels? That just isn't possible.

 

[jsl1492]

I have a client who's on 400 mgs of Primo and on my suggestion, just 100 mgs of test for some androgen and libido maintenance.

6 weeks in, he's up 12 pounds and hard as nails. I swear he's lost fat and he's eating like a horse. (Clean though). The only supplements he used was BIG BLAST and DX7. (No need for UNLEASHED with Primo since it lowers SHBG. No need for POST CYCLE because it doesn't aromatize , though I'd advise it afterward for PCT).

Anyway, he had a blood test 2 weeks ago and just got the results. Everything is perfect but here's a curious twist. His testosterone was 2150!

Now 100 mgs of test isn't enough to boost T that high so it's got to be Primo -- you know, the stuff they say ISN'T ANDROGENIC. AND DOESN'T SUPRESS!

ALL steroids are androgens. And even one as mild as Primo will affect T level and production. It also debunks the need for needing 300, 400, 500 and more mgs of test with a cycle.

It also shows that you can have superphysiological levels of test and be able to recover pretty easily -- as anyone who's done a Primo cycle will attest.

So once again, all these gram cycles and drol, d-bol, mega test dosages etc -- it's all bullshit. You need just a slight elevation in T and increased nitrogen retention. So Primo really is the optimum steroid , and ironically, something that is even LESS androgenic and MORE anabolic would be even better.

Maybe someday.

Bolded the section above where you state it doesn't aromatize.

 

[jsl1492]

Here's the contradiction that you should look at Nelson.

You claim that primo raises T levels. Yet you also claim that primo doesn't aromatize.

As I pointed out, testosterone converts to alpha-DHT and E2 in the body. So in essence, any steroid that raises T levels will aromatize.

Yet you stated that primo doesn't aromatize.

Don't you see the contradiction?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Bolded the section above where you state it doesn't aromatize.

The debate between DHB or DHT aside, if it's converted into DHT, DHT can not aromatize.

The point is, there have not been any tests on Primobolan regarding this. Do you have studies that have taken before and after blood tests using Primobolan? If not, it's all speculation. However, increases in T have been detected with other steroids (such as dianabol). But since Primo is not very androgenic it's never been analyzed and I've always found that curious. There is a LOT we don't know. That includes me. That includes you.


As far as the client in question, he has no reason to lie to me. I know he's on HRT and I know he wanted to do a little Primo cycle in-between. The Primo he used was from one that has gotten the "seal of approval" from all the Primo experts here. Now if you want to start a debate about that, be my guest, but I'm going with face value.

None of this is conclusive, which is why I said it was and INTERESTING revelation -- and one that showed great progress is possible with low dosages. Now if you want to argue THAT, that's another thing as well.

 

[Para_Shoot]

"So once again, all these gram cycles and drol, d-bol, mega test dosages etc -- it's all bullshit"


I LOVE that quote Nelson! Someone who speaks the truth!

 

[Nelson Montana]

"So once again, all these gram cycles and drol, d-bol, mega test dosages etc -- it's all bullshit"


I LOVE that quote Nelson! Someone who speaks the truth!

yeah, that's why I love talking to the old timers. They used a fraction of what the typical guy at the Jersey Shore uses, but when I say that, nobody believes it. They can't believe that Arnold and Sergio and Scott and Zane and Mentzer can look that good on just a few hundred mgs of something. And the reason is, they don't know how to train with commitment.

 

[Ross]

I said IN THE BODY. The body doesn't produsce nandrolone, stanozolol, etc.

When you ADMINISTER these sex hormones, they are IN THE BODY, and this produces an androgenic effect. All steroids exert an androgenic effect, some more so than others.

 

[needtogetaas]

Once again, the leaps of logic are amazing.



Bro, All I am asking is that rather then wording everything you say as to come off as an attack, why not just say what you have to say nicely? Why cant you do it that way? Why is it a must that you come right out acting like this? I think you could have worded the whole thing a lot better my friend. Please try to do this next time, ok. There is no reason at all to be like this. It helps no one and stirs up nothing but animosity giving the whole site a bad atmosphere. So work with me here and help to change this. I dont like to have to ban people or hand out infractions because they cant just be nicer. Thank you my friend

First, those tests, like you say, detect androgens, so they are somewhat non-specific for testosterone, and all AAS in the blood stream will increase the levels (this is not 1:1).

I'm not sure how this in any way "debunks" the supposed "need" to use above-gram dosages of AAS, or that these high doses are somehow "bullshit". Gains made on steroids are dose-dependent, period. They are also dependent on training, diet, genetics, and a million other variables, but when considering just this one variable in isolation, muscular hypertrophy and strength increases are absolutely dose-dependent with relation to AAS usage.

If two clones of the same man did exactly the same training and stuck to the exact same diet. and the only difference was that one man too 750mg of test every week for 16 weeks. And the other man took 250mg of test and 500mg of primo every week for 16 weeks.

I wounder who would have the better cycle? who would end up with better quality gains? Who would have to deal with less side effects? Who would end up less bloated? After the cycle is over who would have a much more easy recovery?



Certainly a person can understand that you can achieve supraphysiologic levels of androgens by administering exogenous steroids to elicit said effect.

You praise primobolan for its "potency" as an androgen, then also praise the ease at which you recover from it. Well which is it? The two statements are mutually exclusive.

We can debate things till blue in the face. Get anal and dissect every tiny little detail. Take what some one says and try to play word games and run around in circles for days. Are we helping anyone by doing so? Does even half the board care or understand half the little anal debates like this?

Through experience I would have to say most people I know/ have spoken with. Have had a better recovery from a cycle with lighter test dose and a good dose of primo. Then they have with a high dosed test cycle. They had less sides, felt better, and keeping there gains where a lot more easy for them.




You then go on to assert, based on a completely failed attempt at logical persuasion, that "primo really is the optimum steroid."

IMO I feel you have Clearly shown in this post that your intentions or not grounded in trying to help anyone but more so intended to just argue and dig at some one. Be it that you are right or wrong matters nothing to me at this point. When the intentions behind actions are not for good, then whether right or wrong everything said and done is worthless. Had you clearly shown good intentions in your words and actions I my self and many others would be all ears. However at this point I doubt many people at all really care at all for what you have to say in this post. Ie you are catching a lot less flies then you hope and the response by everyone would be a lot better if you had better intentions.




Not to mention that the 100mg/wk of testosterone is completely relevant and significant to these findings. 100mg/wk is commonly prescribed for upper-range testosterone replacement therapy, and provides the anabolic benefit necessary to distinguish a male athlete from a female (rather substantial, many would agree).

Seriously, this isn't even pseudoscience.

I dont think pseudoscience is Nelsons intent here. His thoughts and ideas are certainly not meant to be deceiving to anyone. If that were the case, what would be his motive for doing so? Is he selling primo like the late Sachboogie here or something? NO we all know he is not and has no profit to be gained at all from any of this. So if its a accusation of deceit you are handing out. Then that accusation has no merit because its void of motive. Besides that would be a pretty tall accusation in the first place, one in which if made at a sponsor/hard working member of this site might get you into some trouble unless it could be proven.


Could his assumptions be fallacious? Maybe, But then lets just stick to debating the topic and helping each other out here not playing a game of who can one up the other and get in the best dig/attack.

10001110101 you put forth a good argument, some of the points made would make for a great discussion if not for the intent behind them.

You see how i have spoken to you through out my entire reply? Instead of attacks I have presented questions or theories to be disused. When a point needed to be made I did so well showing you a level of "mutual respect".

Well at least I have been trying to, but we all know on a forum when written word is all we have it can some times be hard.

Point is. I think the the "need" for more then 250mg of test or even having to have test and all in a cycle has been debunked with out with out this whole damn thread. So screw it ya dont "need it", That point is clear. Though many arguments can be brought forward as to why it might be better to do so for one reason or another, the fact is its not "needed"

The statement that "mega cycle are bullshit" was made and truthfully I dont think that is to far from the truth. Bullshit in what sense of the words I guess one should ask?

The statement was followed up with "You need just a slight elevation in T and increased nitrogen retention" Well to obtain good gains that really is all that is needed is it not? I mean combined with god training and diet of course?

So if one can take lower doses of test along with some primo and get great gains. Rather then take grams of test added with some dbols,tren and what ever to get good gains. Is that not a good thing?

Now of course larger cycles have there place and IMO they are not all bullshit. To each his one and every man is at his own level and needs to take what ever it is he needs to take to reach that next level.

In the end lets just all just work together and not against each other around here. Know what I mean 10001110101?
BTW good to see you bro. You been MIA for a wile. I only wish you might come around and have the level of commitment to this site that nelson has. Then also had a bit better way of going about things too.

Then you could really be worth something to the family here. Thanks for stopping bye though, and hope its not another few months to a year before we see you again bro.

 

[needtogetaas]

Could it be possible that the primo he's using is really test?

With the shit that goes on with labs these days its I would not dismiss this to quickly lol.

 

[needtogetaas]

So anywhere from 400-500mg wk is plenty for Primo? I've wanted to try this for so long, starting very soon.

Test 400mg wk
Primo 500 mg wk
Masteron 100mg eod

That is a fine looking cycle bro. Looks to be the same cycle swole was running a wile back and he fell in love with primo. Has had a crush on it ever since his first cycle with it

 

[needtogetaas]

It's not DNB. That's an incorrect assumption that has been floating around for years (I have no idea why it hasn't died yet) The truth
is actually that methenolone has a structure that is very similar to DHB, but is still a DHT derrivative.


Primobolan isn't a DHT derivative. DHB is 1-testosterone, Primo is 1-testosterone with a 1-methyl group on it. The 1-methyl group makes a very big difference in terms of androgenic effect. Its a androtane ( carbon 19 present) steroid ,Look up the structure and you will see It is 1-methyl-1-testosterone. Theoretically It could be the methyl group sterically giving better binding to the AR's even though it has a much lower anabolic/androgenic rate. Its affinity for binding to the AR is actually better than testosterone. The 1-methyl group on primo has very little to do with it's oral bioavailability, and does not offer much at all in the way of protection against liver degradation. However IMO it would have to be the reason for the large reduction in androgenic activity ( yet great affinity to AR ) Take away the 1-methyl group and boom!!! what do you have? 1-test and then androgenic activity increases a thousand times over.

I am sorry good friend. This is in no way intended as a flame but rather just a discussion among men.

"Primo can not be converted to a DHT derivative as it lacks the prerequisite 4,5 double bond. It is not a substrate for the 5-AR enzyme. It also is not a substrate for aromatase (requires the same 4,5-double bond)!!!!"

There is also no evidence through testing,studies or even regular feed back that Primo interacts to any degree with progesterone receptors. A well known and common trait of almost all dht derivatives. Putting this into perspective anadrol and winny are both dht derivative yet one gives wetter more sloppy big bulking gains well the other completely lowers estrogen and progesterone and yields much harder and dryer gains.

Still it has been theorized that anadrol has some effects on progesterone, that maybe either anadrol itself, or it's metabolites, mediates the progestrogenic ( not even a word lmao) effects.... So be it a agonist or antagonist most dht dirivatives have to a degree a effects on progesterone. Primo does not.


In any event, DHB and DHT have similar pharmokinetics as they are both affected by the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme.
True and primo seems to be a pretty remarkable drug then does it not? I mean it has a strong binding to the Ar like class 1 steroids but at the same time inhibits the effects that glucocorticoids have on muscle tissue, preventing glucocorticoids from increasing glutamine synthetase and causing muscle tissue breakdown. All this well raising nutrition retention far more then any other steroid. HMMMM I guess the statement that Primabolan is the super steroid is not so far of when you think about it


And I am discussing things in a civil manner. Specifically, I'm trying to discuss how methenelone could raise T levels.
It could do this by a number of mechanisms when you think about it. One would assume that higher nutrition retention would lead to better testosterone levels would it not?
Of course it would, and being as though studies have proven that primo is better at raising nutrition retention then any other steroids, then one would think this could in fact = a hire level of test.
(pubmed
Wien Med Wochenschr. 1993;143(14-15):368-75.
Metabolic effects of anabolic steroids.
Would be a good place to look for info like that^^^^ )

Or maybe ( not saying this is true ok so dont think I am) it is more of a dht dirivative as you stated. A dht that lowers estrogen, estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA?? thus by lowering it it raises test through a feed back significantly increase LH? HMM maybe even the reason its a much more easy recovery.... OK now I am just throwing shit out there lmao but hay wtf why not right lololol

One thing I have noticed. You state that primo doesn't aromatize yet you you claim that it raises T levels? That just isn't possible.

On the last statement are you trying to say that anything that raises test levels must raise estrogen levels???? Because this is not always true good bro.

Because estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA, anything that lowers estrogen might be able to raise testosterone. By lowering estrogen you can significantly increase LH levels respectively raising testosterone levels.

What about Hcg. This is also able to raise test levels with out significantly raising estrogen levels?

So here we have some perfect cases test being raised with very little or no estrogen being raised at all. Something that you flat out stated was " just not possible!!!!!!" Ha see how we can all sit around dissecting the shit out of each others post lmao.


Primo is an awesome steroid and its better at different things like nutrition retention then other steroids. The gains you get from primo are more lean and a lot more easy to keep IMO. IMo it is also much more easy to recover from a cycle of light test and primo , then it is from a heavy test cycle.

Anyway its clear that we can all have a fun, entertaining, and knowledgeable conversation that is void of anyone attack another. I seem to get my points across perfectly fine with out being a jerk to anyone ( for the most part). Unless some ones braking the rules I got no reasons to jump all over them. Even then I try not to.

Guys lets keep the discussion going but at all times let others around us know that we mean no harm or ill will. This can be done in a number of ways. Dropping the ego ( ya nelson needs help with this one too). Taking care to let some one know you are sorry if they feel you were being a jerk. A "sorry man"
can go a long way. So can adding a couple of kind or encouraging words, maybe even a complement to the person you are speaking to. That way he can be sure you are not just trying to argue for the sake of arguing and trying to make something good into something bad.

Remember perception is everything. More then a few times I was under the assumption that some one in this thread was just trying to be a prick. They were just saying what they were saying for no other reason then to be argumentative. Not what we want around here. I am sure that we all feel the same way. If you dont then let me know, because I can send you on your way then

thanks to all.

 

[goal245]

Are you 100% sure the primo is actually primo and not something else? It could be a long acting testosterone so he could actualy be shooting 500mg of test for which those blood levels make sense.

 

[Nelson Montana]

On the last statement are you trying to say that anything that raises test levels must raise estrogen levels???? Because this is not always true good bro.

Because estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA, anything that lowers estrogen might be able to raise testosterone. By lowering estrogen you can significantly increase LH levels respectively raising testosterone levels.

What about Hcg. This is also able to raise test levels with out significantly raising estrogen levels?

So here we have some perfect cases test being raised with very little or no estrogen being raised at all. Something that you flat out stated was " just not possible!!!!!!" Ha see how we can all sit around dissecting the shit out of each others post lmao.


Primo is an awesome steroid and its better at different things like nutrition retention then other steroids. The gains you get from primo are more lean and a lot more easy to keep IMO. IMo it is also much more easy to recover from a cycle of light test and primo , then it is from a heavy test cycle.

Anyway its clear that we can all have a fun, entertaining, and knowledgeable conversation that is void of anyone attack another. I seem to get my points across perfectly fine with out being a jerk to anyone ( for the most part). Unless some ones braking the rules I got no reasons to jump all over them. Even then I try not to.

Guys lets keep the discussion going but at all times let others around us know that we mean no harm or ill will. This can be done in a number of ways. Dropping the ego ( ya nelson needs help with this one too). Taking care to let some one know you are sorry if they feel you were being a jerk. A "sorry man"
can go a long way. So can adding a couple of kind or encouraging words, maybe even a complement to the person you are speaking to. That way he can be sure you are not just trying to argue for the sake of arguing and trying to make something good into something bad.

Remember perception is everything. More then a few times I was under the assumption that some one in this thread was just trying to be a prick. They were just saying what they were saying for no other reason then to be argumentative. Not what we want around here. I am sure that we all feel the same way. If you dont then let me know, because I can send you on your way then

thanks to all.

DUDE, that is one comprehensive explanation! Damn! You covered it all. At any rate, it lays it down and if this guys doesn't get the message, he doesn't want to.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Are you 100% sure the primo is actually primo and not something else? It could be a long acting testosterone so he could actualy be shooting 500mg of test for which those blood levels make sense.

I already addressed this. 600 mgs of test would raise levels much higher. Now if it was a mixture of primo and low dosed test, that's possible. It's be hard to tell, though it may be more trouble than it's worth to the UG, which has a good reputation.

This is the thing with this stuff, we always have to leave the door open to possibilities and never draw any "absolute conclusions."

 

[Ross]

I'd also like to clarify that Primobolan is in fact a 5a-Reduced androgen, although NOT derived from DHT.

Primobolan is derived from the 5a-Reduced Boldenone, DHB(Dihydroboldenone).

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'd also like to clarify that Primobolan is in fact a 5a-Reduced androgen, although NOT derived from DHT.

Primobolan is derived from the 5a-Reduced Boldenone, DHB(Dihydroboldenone).

That's exactly the poi tI was making and being disputed by jsi -- who is curiously quiet right now.

 

[needtogetaas]

That's exactly the poi tI was making and being disputed by jsi -- who is curiously quiet right now.

TEE HEE

Ross,nelson, needto ha ha we got a nice thread going up in here.

 

[needtogetaas]

DUDE, that is one comprehensive explanation! Damn! You covered it all. At any rate, it lays it down and if this guys doesn't get the message, he doesn't want to.

Some times some one just has to come in and lay it all out there. Who knows he could be whipping up a good reply of his own. That would be cool if you ask me. I am simple just asking people to calm down and put knowledge and helping people first. If your intentions are anything more then that then dont bother speaking we dont want to hear it

 

[Power36]

I started another thread but no replies, but figure Ill throw it in here since its related, and this thread in addition to that weekly email we get talking about Primo got me curious....has anyone indeed tried a HRT type protocol with 200mg Primo+100mg Test week? and if so for how long? I know most threads say anything less than 400mg is a waste, but at the bottom of the little email about Primobolan it says its good for HRT at 200mg week+100mg Test...

So Im just curious, I started 400mg Primo in addition to my 200mg HRT Test 3 weeks ago, have enough to do 12 weeks like that...wanted to know if it was worth it if I scored more, to continue on at 200mg Primo+200mg Test for a while after that, making it up to maybe 20 weeks of Primo?? Worth it? Or just cycle off it, back to normal HRT, then later in the fall hit another Primo cycle?

Was curious too that if it were in addition to HRT (or a cycle with Test regardless), could we drop the need for an AI such as Arimidex?

 

[needtogetaas]

I started another thread but no replies, but figure Ill throw it in here since its related, and this thread in addition to that weekly email we get talking about Primo got me curious....has anyone indeed tried a HRT type protocol with 200mg Primo+100mg Test week? and if so for how long? I know most threads say anything less than 400mg is a waste, but at the bottom of the little email about Primobolan it says its good for HRT at 200mg week+100mg Test...

So Im just curious, I started 400mg Primo in addition to my 200mg HRT Test 3 weeks ago, have enough to do 12 weeks like that...wanted to know if it was worth it if I scored more, to continue on at 200mg Primo+200mg Test for a while after that, making it up to maybe 20 weeks of Primo?? Worth it? Or just cycle off it, back to normal HRT, then later in the fall hit another Primo cycle?

Was curious too that if it were in addition to HRT (or a cycle with Test regardless), could we drop the need for an AI such as Arimidex?

for overall gains ya this can be a good add. If you are on hrt with test at 200mg of test. then backing off to 100mg of test and replacing it with 200mg primo could be much better yes. Your test levels will still be plenty high enough, less worries about estrogen and more nutrition retention is added.

All and all I dont think its a bad idea at all. A expensive Idea in the long run, but not a bad one.

 

[Power36]

Thanks Needto, I may fancy the idea of extending it at 200mg for 8 more weeks after I do 400mg for 12 weeks...what the hell I guess...I can get Deca as part of my HRT but I dont think I liked it that much, gave me zits, a little Deca dick, although it did make my joints feel better whether it was psychological or legit....so Ill compare how I felt on Nandrolone with Test for HRT compared to some Primo and Test....

Been saving Anavar for a rainy day....maybe at the end of the Primo 400mg run

 

[jsl1492]

On the last statement are you trying to say that anything that raises test levels must raise estrogen levels???? Because this is not always true good bro.

Actually, it is always true. Raising T levels causes increased aromatase enzyme activity, which then causes increased conversion of testosterone to estrogen. End result: Increased estrogen

Because estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA, anything that lowers estrogen might be able to raise testosterone. By lowering estrogen you can significantly increase LH levels respectively raising testosterone levels.

Lowering estrogen has no direct effect at all on T levels. Your estrogen levels are a result of the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. They come from your natural production of test. By reducing estrogen (via an anti-aromatase like aromasin), you can block the conversion of test to estrogen. By blocking that conversion you indirectly raise T levels.

What about Hcg. This is also able to raise test levels with out significantly raising estrogen levels?

I think you need to do further research. HCG stimulates the testes to produce T.
Unfortunately that increase in T is partially converted to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. So HCG does indeed raise estrogen levels. That is why taking an anti-aromatase like exemestane (aromasin) is a really good idea when running HCG as it blocks the aromatase enzyme from converting T to E.

Primo is an awesome steroid and its better at different things like nutrition It's nitrogen not nutrition retention then other steroids. The gains you get from primo are more lean and a lot more easy to keep IMO. IMo it is also much more easy to recover from a cycle of light test and primo , then it is from a heavy test cycle. [B) You're probably right in this part as primo is a milder androgen than test and causes less suppression [/B]

To conclude, IMHO primobolan does not raise T levels. What it does is raise , isthe level of androgens in your bloodstream. Your natural production of test is also suppressed (Seen by a reduction in LH and FSH), which also causes your estrogen levels to decrease as your circulating test is pretty much non-existent and therefore the aromatase enzyme cannot convert it to estrogen.

 

[Nelson Montana]

To conclude, IMHO primobolan does not raise T levels. What it does is raise , isthe level of androgens in your bloodstream. Your natural production of test is also suppressed (Seen by a reduction in LH and FSH), which also causes your estrogen levels to decrease as your circulating test is pretty much non-existent and therefore the aromatase enzyme cannot convert it to estrogen.

Most everything you say is true but you're making it out as if it's an absolute and that's not quite true.

Quick points...

Yes, it's the aromatization of T that causes an increase in but that amount is not always the same. Some steroids aromatize more than testosterone mg per mg.

I agree that lowering estrogen doesn't necessarily raise T. I've been having this argument with Pat Arnold for 20 years. But then you go on to say that blocking the CONVERSION can lead to a RISE in T and that's kinda 6 of one/ half dozen of the other.

Yes, HCG can raise T, but not so much from aromatization but from an increase in LH.

One area where I think you're flat out wrong is the belief that Primo doesn't aromatize because it suppresses testosterone. Not true. You can have a high T level and Primo will act somewhat as an anti e because it lowers SHBG.

And Primobolan DOES NOT suppress unless the dosages are very high --i.e, if androgen levels get too high!


Anyway, these are all good points and they can be debated endlessly, and that's part of the fun here. But to reiterate, we don't want that old time arguing where each person stands adamantly on their hypothesis and disparage anyone who disagrees. Then the next step is "cut and paste studies" wars which is all subjective to interpretation.

Bottom line, we're all trying to learn a little more than we already know. And some of us know quite a bit.

 

[needtogetaas]

Thanks Needto, I may fancy the idea of extending it at 200mg for 8 more weeks after I do 400mg for 12 weeks...what the hell I guess...I can get Deca as part of my HRT but I dont think I liked it that much, gave me zits, a little Deca dick, although it did make my joints feel better whether it was psychological or legit....so Ill compare how I felt on Nandrolone with Test for HRT compared to some Primo and Test....

Been saving Anavar for a rainy day....maybe at the end of the Primo 400mg run

Yes deca does help with joint pain. It does not fix the problem that is causing the pain but it will mask the problem enough to lesson the pain.

 

[needtogetaas]

Quote posted by needtogetaas View Post
On the last statement are you trying to say that anything that raises test levels must raise estrogen levels???? Because this is not always true good bro.

Actually, it is always true. Raising T levels causes increased aromatase enzyme activity, which then causes increased conversion of testosterone to estrogen. End result: Increased estrogen

Because estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA, anything that lowers estrogen might be able to raise testosterone. By lowering estrogen you can significantly increase LH levels respectively raising testosterone levels.

Lowering estrogen has no direct effect at all on T levels. Your estrogen levels are a result of the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. They come from your natural production of test. By reducing estrogen (via an anti-aromatase like Aromasin), you can block the conversion of test to estrogen. By blocking that conversion you indirectly raise T levels.


OK wooopy we got anal about the differnece in the use of the word lower and the word block.


What about hcg. This is also able to raise test levels with out significantly raising estrogen levels?

I think you need to do further research. hcg stimulates the testes to produce T.
Unfortunately that increase in T is partially converted to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. So hcg does indeed raise estrogen levels. That is why taking an anti-aromatase like exemestane (Aromasin) is a really good idea when running hcg as it blocks the aromatase enzyme from converting T to E.

No I do not need to do more research, you are just yet again being anal. ANd this time super damn anal. I mean you just compeltely skipped 70% of my statement. You know the part where I said "with out significantly raising" . then you go into this big explaination as to try and show you are teaching me something. LMAO!!!!!





primo is an awesome steroid and its better at different things like nutrition It's nitrogen not nutrition retention then other steroids. The gains you get from primo are more lean and a lot more easy to keep IMO. IMo it is also much more easy to recover from a cycle of light test and primo , then it is from a heavy test cycle. [B) You're probably right in this part as primo is a milder androgen than test and causes less suppression [/b]


To conclude, IMHO primobolan does not raise T levels. What it does is raise , isthe level of androgens in your bloodstream. Your natural production of test is also suppressed (Seen by a reduction in LH and FSH), which also causes your estrogen levels to decrease as your circulating test is pretty much non-existent and therefore the aromatase enzyme cannot convert it to estrogen.


That is great. You know I love how you only pick and choice little tiny anal details like the ones you have. So you can at least have something to come back and say.. Yet completely ignoring the fact that you were dead wrong about primo. You helped no one here, you showed me nothing I did not already know, you made about as many good points as circle and yes some how I have the feeling you are not done yet. I get this strange feeling more useless banter is about to follow...

You see you are the kind of person that keeps coming back arguing even if you are not making any useful arguments at all. At the same time wont go away when proven wrong or admit so when proven wrong. When you are and some one says you are you just say " no I was not" then go right back to making senseless conversation about useless crap. Skipping over any time some one makes a perfect point backed by plenty of info, then the whole board agrees with it and it proves you wrong. Skipping right over any of this and continuing on with any little miscommunication there might be,anal points,ploys on words, or anything you can find to deter from your complete and utter lack of knowledge about the real subject at hand..

YA the kind of person that makes you just give up even trying to talk with. Because nothing is going to come of any of this besides frustration and aggravation. I do believe that is exactly what you are going for though. So before I let it get to that point, I am just going to take care of the problem. That problem being you

 

[needtogetaas]

Most everything you say is true but you're making it out as if it's an absolute and that's not quite true.

Quick points...

Yes, it's the aromatization of T that causes an increase in but that amount is not always the same. Some steroids aromatize more than testosterone mg per mg.

I agree that lowering estrogen doesn't necessarily raise T. I've been having this argument with Pat Arnold for 20 years. But then you go on to say that blocking the CONVERSION can lead to a RISE in T and that's kinda 6 of one/ half dozen of the other.

No shit bro. Something I was going to say but for god sakes its people like this that make me just say "fuck it why even waste my time" Sitting there coming up with the weakest damn shit I have ever seen, just for the sake of being able to stay in the conversation..

Its like a dude that just got rocked with a upper cut. His heads spinning, cant see str8, he knows he is done, yet his brains refuses to quite. SO he throws weak wild punches in the air at anything his blurred vision can find in front of him. I mean you have got to be kidding me. Nelson did you really just use the difference in using "block" instead of "lower"

I mean ya ya there is a difference of course there is. But really? you got to be kidding me right? That was an all time low here on ef for anyone.

Yes, HCG can raise T, but not so much from aromatization but from an increase in LH.

One area where I think you're flat out wrong is the belief that Primo doesn't aromatize because it suppresses testosterone. Not true. You can have a high T level and Primo will act somewhat as an anti e because it lowers SHBG.

And Primobolan DOES NOT suppress unless the dosages are very high --i.e, if androgen levels get too high!


Anyway, these are all good points and they can be debated endlessly, and that's part of the fun here. But to reiterate, we don't want that old time arguing where each person stands adamantly on their hypothesis and disparage anyone who disagrees. Then the next step is "cut and paste studies" wars which is all subjective to interpretation.

Bottom line, we're all trying to learn a little more than we already know. And some of us know quite a bit.

O you forgot that he was also flat out wrong about primo being a dht too. YA he also skipped right over that part too. So just kind of wanted to put that out there again ya know. Just in case he forgot.

 

[Ross]

Most everything you say is true but you're making it out as if it's an absolute and that's not quite true.

Quick points...

Yes, it's the aromatization of T that causes an increase in but that amount is not always the same. Some steroids aromatize more than testosterone mg per mg.

I agree that lowering estrogen doesn't necessarily raise T. I've been having this argument with Pat Arnold for 20 years. But then you go on to say that blocking the CONVERSION can lead to a RISE in T and that's kinda 6 of one/ half dozen of the other.

Yes, HCG can raise T, but not so much from aromatization but from an increase in LH.

One area where I think you're flat out wrong is the belief that Primo doesn't aromatize because it suppresses testosterone. Not true. You can have a high T level and Primo will act somewhat as an anti e because it lowers SHBG.

And Primobolan DOES NOT suppress unless the dosages are very high --i.e, if androgen levels get too high!


Anyway, these are all good points and they can be debated endlessly, and that's part of the fun here. But to reiterate, we don't want that old time arguing where each person stands adamantly on their hypothesis and disparage anyone who disagrees. Then the next step is "cut and paste studies" wars which is all subjective to interpretation.

Bottom line, we're all trying to learn a little more than we already know. And some of us know quite a bit.

Aromatase Inhibitors DO INCREASE TOTAL TESTOSTERONE, and they do so SIGNIFICANTLY. Allow me to explain..

Men produce the female hormone estrogen indirectly via the Aromatase enzyme, which converts Testosterone in to estrogen. When this enzyme is inhibited by a drug like Arimidex or Aromasin, testosterone can not be converted in to estrogen and therefore estrogen levels decrease significantly. The HPTA will detect this decrease in female hormone, and in order to maintain homeostatsis, will attempt to make more estrogen. So, the HPTA upregulates testosterone production in an attempt to produce more estrogen, but since the aromatase enzyme is inhibited, all that occurs is a massive increase in Testosterone levels. The body makes more testosterone in an attempt to make more estrogen.

Aromatase inhibitors also decrease SHBG and increase FREE Testosterone. All men should seek to create a favorable androgen:estrogen ratio.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Aromatase Inhibitors DO INCREASE TOTAL TESTOSTERONE, and they do so SIGNIFICANTLY. Allow me to explain..

Men produce the female hormone estrogen indirectly via the Aromatase enzyme, which converts Testosterone in to estrogen. When this enzyme is inhibited by a drug like Arimidex or Aromasin, testosterone can not be converted in to estrogen and therefore estrogen levels decrease significantly. The HPTA will detect this decrease in female hormone, and in order to maintain homeostatsis, will attempt to make more estrogen. So, the HPTA upregulates testosterone production in an attempt to produce more estrogen, but since the aromatase enzyme is inhibited, all that occurs is a massive increase in Testosterone levels. The body makes more testosterone in an attempt to make more estrogen.

Aromatase inhibitors also decrease SHBG and increase FREE Testosterone. All men should seek to create a favorable androgen:estrogen ratio.

True, but it's also possible to have high estrogen and low testosterone. It depends on a lot of factors, as you know.

 

[stevesmi]

would it be a good idea for a 3rd cycle to run primo + sustanon (say 10 weeks on both?)+ beastdrol for the first 3-4 weeks?

i am definately wanting to give primo a shot this fall for my next cycle.. shit sounds awesome.. i have never run it.. but i have run sust and beastdrol and loved both.

 

[needtogetaas]

Aromatase Inhibitors DO INCREASE TOTAL TESTOSTERONE, and they do so SIGNIFICANTLY. Allow me to explain..

Men produce the female hormone estrogen indirectly via the Aromatase enzyme, which converts Testosterone in to estrogen. When this enzyme is inhibited by a drug like Arimidex or Aromasin, testosterone can not be converted in to estrogen and therefore estrogen levels decrease significantly. The HPTA will detect this decrease in female hormone, and in order to maintain homeostatsis, will attempt to make more estrogen. So, the HPTA upregulates testosterone production in an attempt to produce more estrogen, but since the aromatase enzyme is inhibited, all that occurs is a massive increase in Testosterone levels. The body makes more testosterone in an attempt to make more estrogen.

Aromatase inhibitors also decrease SHBG and increase FREE Testosterone. All men should seek to create a favorable androgen:estrogen ratio.

Hence why when mr Whathisface said that it is not possible to raise testosterone with out raising estrogen, I said he was wrong???????? And yet Again I was wright and he was wrong.

But he choice to act like he was write by making yet another wack ass comment about the difference in lowering and blocking lolol.. Its all he had to work with. Weak as fuck but all he had.


So lets recap.
1. he was wrong about primo
2 he was wrong in saying any time you have a increase in test " its is not possible at all" with otu a increase in estrogen..
3. wrong wrong wrong about everything he has been saying thus far..

I mean did the guy say anything at all worth listening too?
Anyway its always fun to talk with you and nelson. Even if you guys are super gay I dont mind at all.

 

[Dogfox]

nice thread guys

 

[needtogetaas]

nice thread guys

I think so. One of the better ones we have had in a wile. I think I will be coming around on the forums rather then pm's a lot more. We need to get this place popping again. This and also my forum needtobuildmuscle.net which is a bad ass forum.

 

[10001110101]

Sorry for the hostile post nelson. Been having a hard time, logged in to EF, saw something to pick apart, and did it. What really sucks is, I totally agree with you, but I have a funny way of expressing it~!

Primo is great great great gear, the combination you mentioned with a moderate dose primo + 100mg test a week is the perfect all around cycle, even if you compete (it may not be enough for ronnie coleman tho!)

Basically, my post was meant to examine the leaps of logic WE ALL, MYSELF INCLUDED, make when discussing incredibly complex biological processes on an internet forum. My father is an attorney so I guess I grew up learning how to pick people's words apart... my bad.

I agree that primo is one of the best, if not THE best overall AAS a person can use, only to be made better by addition of a physiological dose of test. Basically I think we all need to step up our knowledge game. It's difficult to get hard data for a lot of these AAS due to legality issues, but it's becoming easier as more and more tests are done on the few legal AAS we do use in medicine in the US.

But we all need to slow down before we make a claim, it's easy to misinterpret data, get the lines crossed, and overall bung up perfectly good science. A scientific mind is always skeptical of its own conclusions.

That being said, my post was really an attack on your use of the english language and basic argumentation. Let's say it wasn't the conclusions you drew or even how you drew them that bothered me, but it was the way that you made your argument, which is incredibly STUPID to attack, I must have really had something up my ass.

Don't think i'm gonna take it easy on you now though

 

[needtogetaas]

Being a dick again 10101??? Ya skating on the thin ice my man!!!

Anyway hope things get better for you bro.

 

[wootoom]

Good thread, i love Primo!

 

[ArmaniAK47]

Is it possible, instead of the primo being test, that primobolan shows on a blood-testosterone test?

For instance, if I shot 1000mgs of absolutely 100% real primobolan a week... would my blood testosterone show high?

IE: Is primobolan detected as testosterone on a standard blood test?

 

[andrew732]

No primo does not show as test

 

[Nelson Montana]

Is it possible, instead of the primo being test, that primobolan shows on a blood-testosterone test?

For instance, if I shot 1000mgs of absolutely 100% real primobolan a week... would my blood testosterone show high?

IE: Is primobolan detected as testosterone on a standard blood test?

This is the mystery and NOBODY has ever answered it, in spite of all the theories and speculation.

I've always felt that ANY androgen would show an elevated T level. DIanabol isn't testosterone but a blood test would detect an increased T level while on it. That's a fact. I was always curious about Primo because it isn't as strong an androgen , But....ALL STEROIDS ARE BASEd ON THE TESTOSTERONE MOLECULE.

The next question would be if a deca only cycle would do the same thing.

It's amazing that after all these years and all the pontificating from all the guru's, no one has actually done this -- until now.

 

[ArmaniAK47]

This is the mystery and NOBODY has ever answered it, in spite of all the theories and speculation.

I've always felt that ANY androgen would show an elevated T level. DIanabol isn't testosterone but a blood test would detect an increased T level while on it. That's a fact. I was always curious about Primo because it isn't as strong an androgen , But....ALL STEROIDS ARE BASEd ON THE TESTOSTERONE MOLECULE.

The next question would be if a deca only cycle would do the same thing.

It's amazing that after all these years and all the pontificating from all the guru's, no one has actually done this -- until now.

To answer our questions we'd need to first figure out exactly what is done on a blood testosterone test..

If they do a test that measures total androgens then all AAS would show as "testosterone".. But they may be specific to testosterone...

I'd like to know some day..

I'm not willing to shoot 10cc of deca 9 days before my next doctor visit/blood test though, lol! He'd take away my scripted test if it showed that high on testosterone.

 

[needtogetaas]

parabolan is a damn awesome drug to for the peeps who can get it