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I'm losing sleep over this! 212lb man on a mission.

A

ashlfcowen

New member
It's apparent I've become quite OCD about this diet. I want to go in all guns blazing - I've had two experiences whilst cutting before, which is why I really want to nail this one on the head.

Age: 23
Weight: 212lb
Height: 6'2"

Would probably estimate my body fat being at around 17, 18% - look decent with a t-shirt on, not so much topless! Ha.

Anyway, I'll be supplementing with Now Adam multivitamins, Natures Best Fish Oils, Xtend BCAA's and a SHED load of green tea.

A lot of work has gone in to this, I would appreciate any forum of constructive feedback.

2yz9z5u.jpg
 
What are your goals here bro? I know you are saying you want to cut but how much? If you are wanting to shred yourself there will have to be a few minor changes.
 
I'm also wondering how much time you have and what you're doing this for...

If you're looking to just do something for the next few weeks this will cut you, but over time it will probably cut some muscle too (ie decrease your metabolism, etc). The diet looks good from a nutritional standpoint but I'd probably add more calories to it and aim for a slower cut if you want it to last.

It would be especially helpful to know how and what you've BEEN eating, how much exercise you've been doing and for how long, how much "cutting" you've been doing and for how long. These things all give a picture of what your metabolism is like now. If you're really 17% at baseline you've probably got a good starting point from which to work... If you're at 17% after months of dieting and training that's an entirely different picture. Capisce?
 
chewyxrage said:
Looks like you're right around 500 cals under maintaining so imo it looks very solid.
Click to expand...

If only it were that simple. Harris Benedict et al do not apply to lifters (or most people). How are you calculating that?

There is definitely not enough info here to make any determination about this guy's caloric requirements... Is he on gear? What does he do for work? How did he come up with his bf estimate? If you know all this stuff please do fill a sister in...because unless he's an average male from the 1950's those equations will lead you (and him) way off course.
 
Cutiebolic said:
If only it were that simple. Harris Benedict et al do not apply to lifters (or most people). How are you calculating that?

There is definitely not enough info here to make any determination about this guy's caloric requirements... Is he on gear? What does he do for work? How did he come up with his bf estimate? If you know all this stuff please do fill a sister in...because unless he's an average male from the 1950's those equations will lead you (and him) way off course.
Click to expand...


Calm down killer :) I speak in general terms, of course. I do not consider myself an expert, hence the "imo" comment. I generally consider, for myself, body weight x 13 for maintaining....which is why I said he's basically 500 cals below.

Everyone's situation is extremely specific to them and their activities/goals. I provided my input based on what was provided.
 
Sorry! I wasn’t really that specific in my first post, that’s down to the fact I found this forum late. Bad experiences in the past of joining forums, writing up my life story and getting zero feedback! Seems quite the opposite here though.

My goals are to genuinely just lose some body fat, and not so much become “shredded” but to certainly feel confident about myself in the summer, being able to take my top off without having to “tense” my stomach. Ideally I would like to lose a pound a week, which probably means I should go with your suggestions of adding more calories right Cutiebolic? The problem is I’ve been tweaking this diet for the best part of a week now and I literally don’t know how to add to it anymore. I want to try and keep the carbs the same, as I will be doing 4 days light carbs, 5th day high carbs. Preferably on back or leg days. Weight training 4-5 days a week and cardio either first thing AM or after weight training, depending on my work rota.

The 17% is an estimate, going off from reading various cutting plans in the past – so yeah, a very, very broad estimate. And the current state I’m in is after zero exercise in almost 2 months. So I will slowly be working my way in to this cut in terms of weight training/cardio.

Think I’ve covered most the questions you have asked of me, hope this helps and I will anticipate your replys.

obsessedwliftin said:
What are your goals here bro? I know you are saying you want to cut but how much? If you are wanting to shred yourself there will have to be a few minor changes.
Click to expand...

Your suggestions are absolutely most welcome.
 
ashlfcowen said:
Sorry! I wasn’t really that specific in my first post, that’s down to the fact I found this forum late. Bad experiences in the past of joining forums, writing up my life story and getting zero feedback! Seems quite the opposite here though.

My goals are to genuinely just lose some body fat, and not so much become “shredded” but to certainly feel confident about myself in the summer, being able to take my top off without having to “tense” my stomach. Ideally I would like to lose a pound a week, which probably means I should go with your suggestions of adding more calories right Cutiebolic? The problem is I’ve been tweaking this diet for the best part of a week now and I literally don’t know how to add to it anymore. I want to try and keep the carbs the same, as I will be doing 4 days light carbs, 5th day high carbs. Preferably on back or leg days. Weight training 4-5 days a week and cardio either first thing AM or after weight training, depending on my work rota.

The 17% is an estimate, going off from reading various cutting plans in the past – so yeah, a very, very broad estimate. And the current state I’m in is after zero exercise in almost 2 months. So I will slowly be working my way in to this cut in terms of weight training/cardio.

Think I’ve covered most the questions you have asked of me, hope this helps and I will anticipate your replys.



Your suggestions are absolutely most welcome.
Click to expand...

Word. Ok, this is helpful. I will look at it today. Sorry, work was a little busy yesterday.

OWL is definitely a good resource with this stuff too. Didn't mean to chase him off your thread!
 
Cutiebolic said:
Word. Ok, this is helpful. I will look at it today. Sorry, work was a little busy yesterday.

OWL is definitely a good resource with this stuff too. Didn't mean to chase him off your thread!
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it. I know that feeling! I work in a hotel, and we all know how hotels don't shut.

Hopefully OWL hasn't overlooked the thread, any constructive criticism/advice will definitely be taken on board.

Will look forward to your reply when you've got free time. Thank you.
 
LOL! CB didn't run me off. She has a vast amount of knowledge in the area of nutrition and the body bro. I couldn't think of any one better to help. She is a infinite resource on diet bro. However my biggest concern is all this fruit. Fruit is sugar. Sugar is conflicting to the goal of losing weight. I would like to see the carbs lower. I read what you wrote about not wanting to lower them but I would recommend 100 or so per day. 0 after 3pm. That is what works for me. If you take the fruit out you can add larger servings of protein. Also if you can I would look at substituting some of that brown rice with sweet potato.
 
obsessedwliftin said:
LOL! CB didn't run me off. She has a vast amount of knowledge in the area of nutrition and the body bro. I couldn't think of any one better to help. She is a infinite resource on diet bro. However my biggest concern is all this fruit. Fruit is sugar. Sugar is conflicting to the goal of losing weight. I would like to see the carbs lower. I read what you wrote about not wanting to lower them but I would recommend 100 or so per day. 0 after 3pm. That is what works for me. If you take the fruit out you can add larger servings of protein. Also if you can I would look at substituting some of that brown rice with sweet potato.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the feedback bro, but I was always under the impression fruit was good for cutting? It's full of antioxidants and full of fibre right? I've tried to cut out fruit before and it's always made me feel rather run down and bloated.

But yeah, agree with the alternative to brown rice. Love sweet potato, so swapped my PWO MEAL to 1 medium sweet potato rather than 35g brown rice.

In regards to cutting carbs after 3pm, I thought I'd hit a balance, but thinking about it only 3 meals of 7 have little to zero carbs. Would you suggest scrapping the carbs in meal two, upping the g's of oats in my breakfast and working out an hour or two after breakfast?
 
Move the carbs to pre workout and post work out. Those will be the best times for the body to use them and not store them for energy. You want your body to start using fat stores for energy and it cannot happen unless you deplete the carb intake and force it to. Fruit is good for your body. However, more fruit equals more natural sugar. Small amounts of fruit early in the day will not hurt but really watch your fruit intake. Depriving your body of sugars, no matter the source, will accelerate fat loss. Carbs are very similar in the fact that unused carbs are converted to sugar as well. High protein, lower carbs, and good fats are what you are looking for here. Diets will have to be continually tweaked. Put your trust in it for 2 weeks. Reassess at that point based on results achieved and tweak from there.

Sent from my DROIDX using EliteFitness
 
obsessedwliftin said:
Move the carbs to pre workout and post work out. Those will be the best times for the body to use them and not store them for energy. You want your body to start using fat stores for energy and it cannot happen unless you deplete the carb intake and force it to. Fruit is good for your body. However, more fruit equals more natural sugar. Small amounts of fruit early in the day will not hurt but really watch your fruit intake. Depriving your body of sugars, no matter the source, will accelerate fat loss. Carbs are very similar in the fact that unused carbs are converted to sugar as well. High protein, lower carbs, and good fats are what you are looking for here. Diets will have to be continually tweaked. Put your trust in it for 2 weeks. Reassess at that point based on results achieved and tweak from there.

Sent from my DROIDX using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

You're right, it's all trial and error. I'm just a little cautious as I have a purely customer service job where I spend 8 hours a day talking to a varied of different customers. Thanks your help, I will anticipate a reply of Cutie off CB but just so you know I started this diet today - so far so good, if not a little worn out 25 minutes in to my cardio to the point I had to stop, I'll put that down the fact it was my first run in almost a month - and that darn treadmill kept throwing me on a level 6 incline every 4 minutes :mad:

You've been great, thank you.
 
Hey bro... Was hoping I'd have a chance to write from a real keyboard but time is a wastin' and I have been late enough as is.

OWL knows his stuff. My thoughts are as follows: you're coming off a period of not so fabulous nutrition... You weren't that specific but I'm guessing you've partaken in some dietary indiscretion. My philosophy is that you should do as little as you need to to see results. Carb cycling (what OWL is suggesting) is an advanced dieting practice. It's excellent for breaking through plateaus once your diet is clean and regular. I don't want you to shoot your wad right off here. What I would suggest, if you have the patience, is to start the diet you have written out, but add some other stuff (to follow in next post. It's fine to do it this way for now... Dont worry... I just have some suggestions once I can get to a real desktop). Also, I'd save running for later as well. Do 30 min of walking on a steep incline 4-5 days a week. Enjoy the summer and go for a hike if you can. Focus on safe lifting with proper form. Post your lifts if you want. You are a freight train, bud. The only thing that will derail you is an injury.

Victory is about consistently winning the day. It doesn't have to be a grand slam. Just consistently hit singles and limit your strike outs. Stay healthy and keep your head out of the gutter. You can do it.
 
Cutiebolic said:
Hey bro... Was hoping I'd have a chance to write from a real keyboard but time is a wastin' and I have been late enough as is.

OWL knows his stuff. My thoughts are as follows: you're coming off a period of not so fabulous nutrition... You weren't that specific but I'm guessing you've partaken in some dietary indiscretion. My philosophy is that you should do as little as you need to to see results. Carb cycling (what OWL is suggesting) is an advanced dieting practice. It's excellent for breaking through plateaus once your diet is clean and regular. I don't want you to shoot your wad right off here. What I would suggest, if you have the patience, is to start the diet you have written out, but add some other stuff (to follow in next post. It's fine to do it this way for now... Dont worry... I just have some suggestions once I can get to a real desktop). Also, I'd save running for later as well. Do 30 min of walking on a steep incline 4-5 days a week. Enjoy the summer and go for a hike if you can. Focus on safe lifting with proper form. Post your lifts if you want. You are a freight train, bud. The only thing that will derail you is an injury.

Victory is about consistently winning the day. It doesn't have to be a grand slam. Just consistently hit singles and limit your strike outs. Stay healthy and keep your head out of the gutter. You can do it.
Click to expand...

I'll anticipate your next post. I am still very much learning despite reading up on literally days worth of material.

The problem I have with walking at this current time is psychological, for example if I'm not sweating through a form of intense exercise, I don't feel like I'm burning calories which is obviously a massive part of my cut, calorie deficit etc. And by only completing 25 minutes it will now encourage me to go 30 minutes in the next couple of days, until the point I am COMFORTABLE running that same program for 45 minutes. I set myself targets and this is what motivates me through my cutting phase.

And that little quote, whether or not it was your own was very motivational. Thank you.

Missed out the fruit today, will include it tomorrow to see if it makes any difference in my mood, because today I feel tired, and hungry.

Also, in regards to my fat intake - a question, how much EXTRA fish oil capsules do you recommend I take a day? 5? 10? each capsule has 1,100mgs of pure fish oil.
 
Ok... here's my suggestion. Weigh yourself tomorrow morning and measure your waistline at your navel. Write it down. Then, for the next two weeks follow the meal plan exactly as you have it written, except:
-at meal 1 add another whole egg
-at meal 5 get rid of the whey protein and make it 4-6 oz (cooked) chicken, turkey or fish, plus the almonds, plus 1-2 c green vegetables.
-cut the nighttime PB in half (have 1/2 TB and add 5 fish oil caps... yes, 5)

skip the NO for now.

and finally...

once you decide to do it, DO IT. stop thinking about it. stop second guessing. just do it (not my own phrase) and then wake up the next day and do it again. and THEN, after 2 weeks we can re-evaluate and see if anything needs to be tweaked.

trust me on the cardio for now. do the walks. crank the incline up all the way, but don't run. I want you anabolic.

OWL, you concur?
 
You're right, there's nothing to it but to do it and this is my problem. My measurements, as well as pictures have been taken, so we'll assess again in 2 weeks. I've added another extra egg at breakfast, nice to see the protein shoot right up! However in regards to swapping the shake for a solid meal, unfortunately I can't. My line of work means I am busy 3 hours out of 8, and so I consume the shake moments before that period, which sees me through until I can sit down and eat again. I literally can't afford the 10 minutes it will take to sit down, so the shake is very convenient.

Why so many fish oils? per capsule provides me with 1,100mg of fish oils, 610 of which containt EPA&DHA. So being over 200lb the estimated in take is around 4 grams right? So ideally I should be taking between 6-7 tablets a day. At the minute I take 2 in the morning, 2 with meal four, 2 with meal 6 and 1 before bed. More? and why? Through research I heard that if you OD on these then there are some negative effects, i.e. thinning of the blood.

I love to learn.

P.s. went with 30 minutes of incline walking today, you're right and I'm wrong, I did sweat...
 
I meant take 5 before bed and not the other ones, but if you prefer it the other way that's fine. Honestly, you're splitting hairs here... Get your head out of it. You can only mess up a good plan here.

Re: "thin" blood... Do you have bleeding problems? Actually, since I'm asking, do you have any medical problems (high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes?)?

Stop thinking. :p
 
ashlfcowen said:
I feel like you just slapped my wrist and told me off.

Nope, absolutely none. Just a real bad pair of hamstrings ;)
Click to expand...


Lol... What are you gonna do about it, bro? Shit or get off the pot ;)

Lucky you. Pay attention to those hammies early on. Get a foam roller. You wanna obsess about something? Make it PT.
 
Cutiebolic said:
Ok... here's my suggestion. Weigh yourself tomorrow morning and measure your waistline at your navel. Write it down. Then, for the next two weeks follow the meal plan exactly as you have it written, except:
-at meal 1 add another whole egg
-at meal 5 get rid of the whey protein and make it 4-6 oz (cooked) chicken, turkey or fish, plus the almonds, plus 1-2 c green vegetables.
-cut the nighttime PB in half (have 1/2 TB and add 5 fish oil caps... yes, 5)

skip the NO for now.

and finally...

once you decide to do it, DO IT. stop thinking about it. stop second guessing. just do it (not my own phrase) and then wake up the next day and do it again. and THEN, after 2 weeks we can re-evaluate and see if anything needs to be tweaked.

trust me on the cardio for now. do the walks. crank the incline up all the way, but don't run. I want you anabolic.

OWL, you concur?
Click to expand...

Definitely! I feel like it is a great starting point. I also love the walking on incline idea. Thanks for the reminder btw. Being that i have been at this so long i immediately go hardcore on diet. When in retrospect could cause some to give up by depriving them of too much right off the bat. I see where you are going by easing him in here. You know me Cb i go straight for the jugular. Lol i take the quickest route from point a to point b. Great show girl.

Sent from my DROIDX using EliteFitness
 
obsessedwliftin said:
Definitely! I feel like it is a great starting point. I also love the walking on incline idea. Thanks for the reminder btw. Being that i have been at this so long i immediately go hardcore on diet. When in retrospect could cause some to give up by depriving them of too much right off the bat. I see where you are going by easing him in here. You know me Cb i go straight for the jugular. Lol i take the quickest route from point a to point b. Great show girl.

Sent from my DROIDX using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

It's not just about burn out or scaring away a newbie... It's about leaving yourself (and them) options for later. Carb cycling, increasing amounts/intensities of cardio, etc, are all great tools, but what do you do once you've maxed them out and the body fat is still higher than you want? Too many people wind up burning out their adrenal glands with stimulants and excessive cardio coupled with strict dieting. The trick is to take every small intervention as far as it will take you and THEN switch it up. Throwing the kitchen sink at someone is like using all your lifelines at once on the first question. It just isn't necessary and you'll never get to be a millionaire that way ;)
 
Cutiebolic said:
It's not just about burn out or scaring away a newbie... It's about leaving yourself (and them) options for later. Carb cycling, increasing amounts/intensities of cardio, etc, are all great tools, but what do you do once you've maxed them out and the body fat is still higher than you want? Too many people wind up burning out their adrenal glands with stimulants and excessive cardio coupled with strict dieting. The trick is to take every small intervention as far as it will take you and THEN switch it up. Throwing the kitchen sink at someone is like using all your lifelines at once on the first question. It just isn't necessary and you'll never get to be a millionaire that way ;)
Click to expand...

When are we getting married?
 
Cutiebolic said:
It's not just about burn out or scaring away a newbie... It's about leaving yourself (and them) options for later. Carb cycling, increasing amounts/intensities of cardio, etc, are all great tools, but what do you do once you've maxed them out and the body fat is still higher than you want? Too many people wind up burning out their adrenal glands with stimulants and excessive cardio coupled with strict dieting. The trick is to take every small intervention as far as it will take you and THEN switch it up. Throwing the kitchen sink at someone is like using all your lifelines at once on the first question. It just isn't necessary and you'll never get to be a millionaire that way ;)
Click to expand...

Got that last part covered lmao! But great anology! However i will add that after cycling there are alot of options. You have IF, carb depletion, high carb low carb days and so on. But still a valid point as always. ;) good luck bro. Let us know how it goes.

Sent from my DROIDX using EliteFitness
 
Hello again friends. Weighed in today after 7 days of dieting, 5 days of intense weight lifting and 5 days of incline walking for 25 minutes up a steeeeeep hill. The results? 4lb of weight loss. Your thoughts? Are we happy?
 
ashlfcowen said:
Hello again friends. Weighed in today after 7 days of dieting, 5 days of intense weight lifting and 5 days of incline walking for 25 minutes up a steeeeeep hill. The results? 4lb of weight loss. Your thoughts? Are we happy?
Click to expand...

Four lbs in a week man is impressive. Making steady losses instead of extreme drastic ones will be easier to maintain. And if you are able to cope with your diet and regimen then stick with it and expect steady gains, or 'losses' in your case
 
Massroid1020 said:
Four lbs in a week man is impressive. Making steady losses instead of extreme drastic ones will be easier to maintain. And if you are able to cope with your diet and regimen then stick with it and expect steady gains, or 'losses' in your case
Click to expand...

Just under 4 actually, came in at 208.4, rather than 212, but lets count it as 4 shall we? :evil:

Diet hasn't been that bad at all, if not a little boring (the veg is a chore to eat!).

Thanks for the reply.
 
AC... Great job sticking to your plan. Obviously that sounds great, but I don't pay attention to weekly changes. We will find out how real it is after the whole 14 days. Keep killing it!!!

How do you feel?
 
Cutiebolic said:
AC... Great job sticking to your plan. Obviously that sounds great, but I don't pay attention to weekly changes. We will find out how real it is after the whole 14 days. Keep killing it!!!

How do you feel?
Click to expand...

Really? Not that bad, but I think that's because of the MISS I'm doing, imagine after 2 weeks when I start to up the cardio a little more than I'll end up soldiering on through the day, but for now not bad.

Sometimes I tend to overworry about my nutrition, for example if I wake up a little later than expected, I don't have enough time to fit my 7th meal in, so I typically have 2 meals in one, I.e. instead of the protein shake with almonds, I'll have my 6oz chicken, broccoli, protein shake AND almonds....

Just trying to get those macros in is all.

I'll report back in a week. ;)
 
What a tough week that was. Ended up going out on the Saturday night drinking vodka, lime and soda. Started off well enough, but one quickly turned in to two and well the rest was a blur. Needless to say Sunday was a write off, consisting of eating everything I could get my hands on. I realise just to keep myself sane I am entitled to a night out here and there, but maybe not after just a week and a half of dieting and certainly not as much as I did drink - lesson learnt.

As a result I'm now down to 207.2lb, so just over a lb lost this week. I don't think the scales do me any justice though - I've certainly gained more muscle, so I'm beginning to think that lb is just body fat - who knows?!...not entirely sure if I'm disappointed or not, imagine if that Sunday hadn't of happened then it'd tell another story. Hmmm, so in 2 weeks I've lost 5lb.

Diet will remain the same, except on off days I'll be looking to consume hardly any carbs, with the majority of sources coming from oats in the morning, fruit and veg late morning/mid afternoon.

I've decided to up the cardio to HIIT, 3 times a week - with less strenuous cardio workouts in between, so SSCV every other day (all of which will be after my weights). Your thoughts on this?

Also, would you now suggest carb cycling, every other say, 4 days? Would work out well on my leg workouts if I doubled/tripled the carbs....

Excited to hear back off you guys...
 
ashlfcowen said:
What a tough week that was. Ended up going out on the Saturday night drinking vodka, lime and soda. Started off well enough, but one quickly turned in to two and well the rest was a blur. Needless to say Sunday was a write off, consisting of eating everything I could get my hands on. I realise just to keep myself sane I am entitled to a night out here and there, but maybe not after just a week and a half of dieting and certainly not as much as I did drink - lesson learnt.

As a result I'm now down to 207.2lb, so just over a lb lost this week. I don't think the scales do me any justice though - I've certainly gained more muscle, so I'm beginning to think that lb is just body fat - who knows?!...not entirely sure if I'm disappointed or not, imagine if that Sunday hadn't of happened then it'd tell another story. Hmmm, so in 2 weeks I've lost 5lb.

Diet will remain the same, except on off days I'll be looking to consume hardly any carbs, with the majority of sources coming from oats in the morning, fruit and veg late morning/mid afternoon.

I've decided to up the cardio to HIIT, 3 times a week - with less strenuous cardio workouts in between, so SSCV every other day (all of which will be after my weights). Your thoughts on this?

Also, would you now suggest carb cycling, every other say, 4 days? Would work out well on my leg workouts if I doubled/tripled the carbs....

Excited to hear back off you guys...
Click to expand...


Strong work, bro... Here are my thoughts:

1. Try to put 2-3 h between your meals. If your in a pinch and have to squeeze them together it's fine occasionally, but don't make it a habit.

2. Tell me why you it was "needless to say" that Sunday was a write off? You have a slip, you get back on your plan immediately. You don't lie in the mud and wallow for 24 h.

3. Don't change your cardio or your lifts. It ain't broke. Don't fix it yet. There will be a time for that. Don't shoot your wad right now. Patience is going to be your greatest challenge.

4. Do 2 more weeks of this. Minus the drinking binge and following screw up. If you find you're hungry post on here and I'll tweak your food for you. Seriously. Give us two real weeks on this plan exactly and we will talk about changing things up. You're doing great. Stop thinking. Lift, eat, live, work, sleep.... Repeat.
 
I have a confession to make,

After a couple of weeks, and some solid fat loss I lost motivation completely, not because I couldn't handle the commitment, but my attitude was changing, and I started to suffer a little in work. I became tired almost instantly after my cardio, almost unaware sometimes and with a job that is purely customer based my service skills were suffering. I really, really want to start back up because I was doing well - but it's clear I need to make some adjustments. I think I'll start back at square one, keep at it for 2 weeks then can we start talking again? Maybe discuss carb cycling which should hopefully put a smile on my face in work atleast lol.

Do you recommend any supplements that'll help?

I feel like I've let you down a little CB, I'm sorry - I want back in. I want to look good naked!
 
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