I have given up on "god"

[Shrebly]

After years of having religion shoved at my from every angle, being told to trust a "god" that created us in his image yet allows some of the worlds events happen and after going to church 5 days a week for 8 years of grade school and 6 days a week in high school - I am still no fucking closer to understanding what the hell it's all about.

If you believe in the bible that's all fine and good, if you place trust in an unseen entity - hey - that's your issue not mine. But when I read stories about the priests driving BMW's and the members of the church saying "he deserves it - he gave up his life for "god" " - sorry that's bullshit. Some of those people go to church and donate money that they should really be using for their family etc.

In the past when I doubted my "faith" I was always reminded that ... "god never gives you more than you can handle". If that's the case then what the fuck was the message behind WTC? For Americans to stand tall and join as one?

Sorry but I am no longer a Roman Catholic, Christian or believer in organized religion of any kind. What "god" could allow something this devastating to happen? Sorry, the next time I look for guidance it will be towards nature, the stars and the waves at the ocean.

 

[*Bump*]

I believe in a god, (agnostic).


I despise organized religion, 'it' is one the biggest, faultiest, most corrupt piece of human shit that has ever been layed on this earth.

 

[GLP]

Renpent Now! or your going to hell sister! God have mercy on your pegan soul.

 

[liftsiron]

All you have given up on is christian mythology, now you can expand your mind. No one knows what awaits after death, if anything. I subscribe to no formal religion because they all no more than tools used by man to gain power and wealth.

 

[Checkmatebloated]

Yo ass better call somebody! hehehe!

You better get right! It's okay to naked and crazy, but you better get right.

 

[3Vandoo]

Religion is the control of masses.

Karl Marx

 

[bignate73]

All you have given up on is christian mythology, now you can expand your mind. No one knows what awaits after death, if anything. I subscribe to no formal religion because they all no more than tools used by man to gain power and wealth.

thank you!

oh and its spelled PAGAN. i believe the proper term would be heretic, pagans are their own thing.

organized religion made its way out of my life loooooong ago. religion period for that matter. there is no way a human mind can fathom the possibilities of whats out there, to personify it, give it a name and try to make it like us is completely arrogant. islam at least doesnt attempt to lower god to a human level, or even try to give god human characteristics. christianity does. both are measures for controlling the masses, appeasing the poor (meek) into thinking they will be rewarded for toiling and suffering. i wont pretend to understand any omnipotent power, nor will i insult myself by calling it a "father" and taking on the role of being a child. nature or the nature of things are all i will explain it as, since science shows us new things daily and make archaic beliefs more prehistoric. i place no faith in ancient writings, for at one time people believed they would fall off the earth if they went far enough. feel safe trusting something written under the hand of "god" by such people?

riiiiiight.

 

[La0Tz3]

I'm not a christian, but I believe the christian idea is that god granted man free will, which is why he would allow this to happen. The god of the old testament might have stopped it, but the god of the new testament allowed jesus to die on the cross, so why would he stop this?

If you believe all that stuff, that is.

 

[pauly]

God doesn't have to be found through religion

If you actually TRY and TALK to God you will find Him yourself.

 

[Weapon X]

Religion is the control of masses.

Karl Marx

I think you mean "opiate."

And don't worry, God is still there, no matter how much you rail and rant against him.

 

[J-Ro]

I was too raised Catholic, but now just the thought of some superior being in the sky, watching everything you do, just seems ridiculous. Has anyone ever seen this god, personally? Everyone assumes that god exists because of some thousands of years old writings. For all you know, those people could have been some freaking crackpot.

 

[the nature boy]

Seems to me that religion has caused just as much misery as it has joy.

 

[Crazier]

If you have studies religion for a long time, then you should know that this is exactly the wrong time to give up on God. If you believe in God, you know this is a test. A test to show who believes and who will walk. First, I want to say that I have been to church probably no more than 20 times in my life, and that was just to go with friends. What I have learned, I have learned by reading. My parents no longer went to Church once they married. My dad was raised methodist, my mom mormon. Conflicting, to say the least. With that being said, here goes.

"How can God let this happen?"
God gave every person free will. Free to do as you please. If you are planning on taking over the world, he has vowed that he will not interefere, perform no miracles. He has left the planet in the hands of free people. He didn't create countries. He didn't set imaginery lines that divides unity. He didn't create houses with walls to seperate families. He created human beings. If you believe that, then you believe that he also gave us guidlines to live by, that we call the Ten Commandments. Then God left, to have his Son return to, once again, spread God's word, and to show the world the path to enlightenment. Jesus was crucified.
Jesus was killed. Jesus was killed by Catholics. Even at the time his own Son was being crucified, where was God? Does he not love his son? Of course he does, as he does every one of us, as we are all his children. The point is, human's see death as the end. We see death as the end, and we see death as sadness.
God wouldn't. People often say that a loving God would never let the things that happen on Earth happen if he loved us. Well, what if this is a test? Your life in general, a person's child dying,
people being killed by the masses, tragedies. A test of your personal strength, kindness, righteousness. Did God know that his son would die if he sent him to Earth? Sure. Does it matter? No. Our lifetime is but a blur of a split second in time compared to the Universe's existance. I don't feel you have to personally believe in God to go to Heaven. God outlined to Moses the right way of life. We all know what they are. If you are judged for everything you do in life, that's called a test. And, if there is a God, then this, life, is a test. 6,000 people died. It is tragic. If you believe in God, where are those people now? Maybe they were the chosen ones. Fate landed those people on that plane, because they passed their tests, and they were accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven, and now the only ones that are suffering are the loved ones left behind. The perished are done suffering.
Buddhist's believe life is suffering. It's easy to believe. After all,
we have pure evil on Earth. We see the nastiness of the devil in front of our face, every single day we exist on this planet.
I don't think we can blame God. He gave us this planet to do as we pleased. Since the beginning of time there has been good versus evil. The question isn't whether you die when you are 12 or 92, the question is how you lived your life when you were alive. I don't personally feel you have to believe in God to go to Heaven. You just have to be a good person, and do the right thing. And, we all know right from wrong. We have since we were born. It's instincts. I don't think now is the time to start not believing in God. He knew evil lurked, and he knew there would be disgusting acts before our eyes, yet he gave us the free will to decide what we wanted in life. Everyone will be judged. Jesus was Jewish, and how many Jew's were killed at the concentration camps? Again, human's see it as tragic. God must see it has evil. You have to weed out the good and the bad if you have a Heaven and Hell, and there must be a test of your free will to determine the path you have chosen. Be strong brother. If there is a God, he does love you, and he does hurt with you, and he does cry with you, and he does also love you.
The devil on the otherhand, will just pretend he does. Until it is too late. Stay righteous.

Sorry this is so long, I hope most of it makes sense, I've been trying to type this while working.
--

 

[spongebob]

we must remember that what has happen is a struggle between man not a struggle between man and god! im not into religion to much myself but i do believe in a higher power. i think some of you were/are looking to god for all the answers but he only provides you with the tools to find them yourself. i dont think we should be bashing god whether he exist or not for what a few crazy men have done. remember the devil is strong also.

 

[bouncer]

Shrebly I know where your coming from girl.
You haven't answered my last PM, any news ?.
Bouncer

 

[bignate73]

bouncer, bro, what are you doing in your avatar????

 

[the nature boy]

I have given up on "god"

I think the arguement can be made that God (if he exists) has given up on us.

 

[J-Ro]

Jesus was killed. Jesus was killed by Catholics. --

Jesus was not killed by the Catholics. The Romans were not Catholics then. Catholocism wasn't instituted until after Jesus was crucified.

 

[Crazier]

I'm sorry J-Ro. Again, I'm not the most educated about religion, these are just my beliefs. What did they do? Realize they killed God's son and said we better change our title so people don't affiliate our religion as the one that killed God's son??? Probably wouldn't do to well for the 10% salary they ask for.
--

 

[Weapon X]

Again, I'm not the most educated about religion, these are just my beliefs.

Hmmm, then how about reading up a little before contributing to public debate then? Might help a bit if you want people to take you seriously.

 

[Crazier]

Well fuck you man. I'm sorry if I didn't know the correct term for the people that killed Jesus. How about the rest of my post. Come on. Piece by piece, tell me why I shouldn't be taken seriously. Because the Roman's changed to Catholics... still the same thing man. Let's debate buddy. I'm ready.
--

 

[primetime21]

well, i can type forever on this subject but will spare you guys that. Basically, i dont believe in the god that everyone else does. in fact i am not even sure if i do believe in god. Luckily for me i am not as smart as everyone else in the world and i realize that i just dont know if there is a god. What i do know is that organized religion is a farce. It has dumb rules that NO god would ever require. In fact, why would god ever require anything?? he is a god.

The one thing i would not do is thank god for the good in my life. Why? Because i refuse to blame him for the bad. Only a complete moron would thank god for good but then say that bad things arent caused by god. You cannot have it both ways. If there is a god, he is everything (good and bad) and therefore you cannot seperate the two.

 

[Night Fly]

Crazy1...I agree with your post. I think it was very thought out and came from the heart. You do a very good job of explaining why you believe the way you do.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Crazier]

THANK YOU NIGHTFLY. I am glad you were able to get past the one "phrase" I messed up so you could read the rest of my post.
Thanks!

--

 

[Night Fly]

Haha...well, no problem. My pleasure, in fact.

You know...I'm sure even some of the most profound religious people make mistakes when explaining something.

I am an open-minded person and if others want to 'give up' on God (especially now)...let them. I can only minister to people for so long. I, on the other hand have become closer to God simply because of this.

Again, it is very hard to explain to people 'why' God allows things to happen, but you did a great job.

 

[Weapon X]

Well fuck you man. I'm sorry if I didn't know the correct term for the people that killed Jesus. How about the rest of my post. Come on. Piece by piece, tell me why I shouldn't be taken seriously. Because the Roman's changed to Catholics... still the same thing man. Let's debate buddy. I'm ready.
--

The parts where you discuss your discuss your personal feelings are fine, and I'm glad you posted them. It's just stuff like that comment about Catholics killing Jesus. ANd...

He didn't create countries. He didn't set imaginery lines that divides unity.
Yup, he sure did. He created Israel and sent the Israelites out against the pagan nations.

He didn't create houses with walls to seperate families.
Christ himself said that he came bearing a sword and to set family members against each other.

Again, the heartfelt things you posted are wonderful, and I agree with most of it. Sorry I came across as such a dick. Peace.

 

[Crazier]

Thanks Weapon. I appreciate it. I didn't mean to misquote anything, and thank you for the information. Again, I said didn't go to church as a child, and I just started reading about two years ago. Before that, I believed, but knew nothing. Now, I know something, just not all the concrete facts. I'm 24, and as my reading continues hopefully I'll become more educated. My general point is, it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters how you live. From my readings, I'd say Buddhist books are the ones I find most interesting and the most useful in day to day life. While the bible talks about a lot of things that happened back in the day, if everyone, of any religious background followed the Noble Eightfold Path, the world would be a much different, happier, better place. And, I think you can apply these beliefs to any religion, because it is just about being a good person, and being kind to others. http://www.dusers.drexel.edu/~buddha/Buddhism/Concepts/8FPath.htm
Interesting to say the least. Have a good one brother.
--

 

[3Vandoo]

Look at the 10 commandments, and then go to a church
fucking ironic

 

[SLICEDBEEF]

I beilieve in a "higher power", if thats what you want to call it. I mean, something had to of made the universe and beyond (way beyond). It couldn't have just appeared out of nowhere. But I do not believe in any organized religion, or religion for that matter. For the fact that religion is not perfect. There is just too many religions out there that don't agree with one another. It is the number 1 cause of conflict in most nations and societies. I guess all the Chinese are going to hell for not being christian, huh? Oh yeah, all the animals are going to be fried for their sins for not praying to god, and mating with many different partners. We as humans are animals that go by primal instict, except for the really brainwashed ones.
I refuse to live by a book that was written by man thousands of years ago. I believe religion was a way to keep the mass in control and is the biggest cult known to man. God has never been proven scientifically, evolution has. I know people are going to say, "you have to have faith or you will go to hell", but, I'm not afraid, because I have faith that it is an old hoax and I will not go to hell... or heaven for that matter. I also belive burning in hell is used to scare people into believing the religion. It is just the most generic claim people came up with for the different christian religions and isn't any different for any other religious claims of where you will go after life. For all we know, the bible, koran, etc. could have been written by some crazy man trippin off some plants in some cave because he was scared that nothing existed after life (wich most likely may be the case).
When someone is brought up in religion there whole life it is rare that they will stop believeing in it, and thats fine as long as it makes you a better person, but not a person that judges and controls other people in extreme ways because of their own insicurities.
I like to compare the bible to the story of Zeus, hercules, and the other gods. It's all the same to me. There is only one thing I follow, and that is my own thoughts and conclusions. I have lived a much happier life and I feel my state of mind is opened up to many new exciting possiblities and states of mind since I've left religion. I'm a much better person because of it, too. And for the sake of argument, if this so called perfect "god" did exist, and sent me to hell for this, then who is the selfish one? How could you put your faith and love in such an evil type of god? I think for myself, and live by my own standards, not someone elses.

SLICEDBEEF

 

[DOGGY]

Shrebly,
I have a wife (12 years catholic school) and two lovely girls
both catholic.. and i was a catholic or so i was instructed.

I've been on the same path as you for some time now,
I will live my life and try to be a good man, and will expect
nothing from god, heaven or hell..when i'm gone.

Yes i do feel guilty, and my wife thinks i've lost my mind.

But you have to do what you feel is right.

I understand you, stay safe.

Doggy

 

[wesdog]

My general point is, it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters how you live.

that's not true. god says the only way to get to the kingdom is through him. this means that you need to have a personal relationship with the lord jesus christ to get to the kingdom. sure, you will be rewarded for the things you do if you make it, but only if you trust in jesus as your lord and savior and admit that you are a sinner. whoever said that ministers take what is given in the offerings is completely wrong. it takes money to spread the word of god. they have to pay bills too. do not ever say that they take money from the church. about this whole wtc thing. i do not think it was in gods will, but he allowed it to happen. i think god is weaping because of it. if you ask me why god allows things to happen, i can't tell you why. all i can say is that he won't give us more than we can handle. just look now, we can handle this. the nation has came together as one, an outpour of people donating money, blood, food, clothing etc.

 

[seeseerider]

Fuck religion!!! fuck them all!!

 

[bigpimp]

Sorry but I am no longer a Roman Catholic, Christian or believer in organized religion of any kind. What "god" could allow something this devastating to happen? Sorry, the next time I look for guidance it will be towards nature, the stars and the waves at the ocean.

that is a lame ass question" why could god allow this"
its a fucking cop out....and the next time you look for guidance in the stars and nature.....why dont you stop and think who the fuck made the stars....god......and if you are willing to give up on god that easily then you were no christian or catholic to begin with!!!!

 

[Shrebly]

Re: Re: I have given up on "god"

that is a lame ass question" why could god allow this"
its a fucking cop out....and the next time you look for guidance in the stars and nature.....why dont you stop and think who the fuck made the stars....god......and if you are willing to give up on god that easily then you were no christian or catholic to begin with!!!!

1. Get your quotes correct before you start flaming someone. I asked WHAT god could allow this.

2. I never asked to be Catholic, it was something that my parents forced me to adhere to.

3. There is no proof that "god" made the stars, moon or earth. Show me one piece of credible proof and I will 'repent'.

 

[Shrebly]

If it's true that god is the creator of al that surrounds us and we were created in his image - how are there different races, colors and religious beliefs?

If we were created by 'god' and he gave us free will to do as we choose then why do people choose to pray to him in a time of need? If were are in charge of our decisions and outcomes then what will praying do? Give us peace of mind? Yeah, make a donation and you’ll get a better seat in heaven. “Send me money, send me green, heaven you will meet – make a contribution and you’ll get a better seat”

If our destinies are already predetermined then no amount of praying will ever change that. The Catholic religion is nothing but a hoax - they tell you one thing - that 'god' has a plan for everyone yet at the same time the church tells us to pray and ask for forgiveness, awareness and guidance.

I could really care less what any bible thumpers have to say on the matter - who is to say what religion is correct and how can someone who is Catholic condemn someone who is Muslim or Protestant or Jewish for their religious convictions?

 

[seeseerider]

catholic is bullshit!!religion is like amway... all they want is your money!! its always about money...vatican is fucking rich with large amount of money and they keep all of it for themself....fuck the pope!! live your spiritualty instead..not religion..by the way the bible was written 2000 or so years ago..how much of it truly happened? i wonder....

 

[Shrebly]

Shrebly I know where your coming from girl.
You haven't answered my last PM, any news ?.
Bouncer

The last time I checked the diaster list there was a D. Fiori on the list - his name is Dominic Angianece Fiori. While I hate to say I'm glad he was hurt in the blast, it is much better than being dead.

I am waiting for my sister to call once she makes it to NYC from Iowa. She rented a car a started driving Thursday morning when she couldn't get any information.

Thanks for asking, my PM's are screwed up for some reason - I stopped getting the little pop up box when a new PM arrived.

When I get any news I will PM you - again, thanks so much for asking and listening... and that's something that I never though you and I would ever do :]

Shells

 

[2Thick]

organized religion made its way out of my life loooooong ago. religion period for that matter. there is no way a human mind can fathom the possibilities of whats out there, to personify it, give it a name and try to make it like us is completely arrogant. islam at least doesnt attempt to lower god to a human level, or even try to give god human characteristics. christianity does. both are measures for controlling the masses, appeasing the poor (meek) into thinking they will be rewarded for toiling and suffering. i wont pretend to understand any omnipotent power, nor will i insult myself by calling it a "father" and taking on the role of being a child. nature or the nature of things are all i will explain it as, since science shows us new things daily and make archaic beliefs more prehistoric. i place no faith in ancient writings, for at one time people believed they would fall off the earth if they went far enough. feel safe trusting something written under the hand of "god" by such people?

riiiiiight.

I am very impressed by your thoughts....

 

[2Thick]

My ideas about religion were changed forever when I first read Nietzsche.

Ever since then, any mention of religion has turned me off.

The true meaning of life is the pursuit of happiness. Appreciation of what you have while chasing after your dreams should be the goal of every person on this earth.

We are all going to die sooner or later, so repent before you die to your god and hope for the best. At worst there will be darkness...at best your soul lives on.

 

[J-Ro]

Well fuck you man. I'm sorry if I didn't know the correct term for the people that killed Jesus. How about the rest of my post. Come on. Piece by piece, tell me why I shouldn't be taken seriously. Because the Roman's changed to Catholics... still the same thing man. Let's debate buddy. I'm ready.
--

Remember, the Roman Empire stretched across most of Europe and the Middle East. The geographical boundaries were much different than today. Romans did crucify Jesus, but not in the sense that you might think. These Romans were based in the Middle East in and around present-day Israel, not back in Italy.

 

[gymnpoppa]

that's not true. god says the only way to get to the kingdom is through him. this means that you need to have a personal relationship with the lord jesus christ to get to the kingdom. sure, you will be rewarded for the things you do if you make it, but only if you trust in jesus as your lord and savior and admit that you are a sinner. whoever said that ministers take what is given in the offerings is completely wrong. it takes money to spread the word of god. they have to pay bills too. do not ever say that they take money from the church. about this whole wtc thing. i do not think it was in gods will, but he allowed it to happen. i think god is weaping because of it. if you ask me why god allows things to happen, i can't tell you why. all i can say is that he won't give us more than we can handle. just look now, we can handle this. the nation has came together as one, an outpour of people donating money, blood, food, clothing etc.

I agree, I believe that God works in mysterious ways......Tuesday's horrific time.....has brought a whole country a lot closer together, more than ever before. I saw all nationalities suffering, helping, praying together. This chat board has been devoid of the usual derogatory insults, racist, hateful posts that normally govern it. Before Tuesday, you could not have gotten so many different ethnic groups together for any reason other than enertainment. Now look at where we are headed. And yes some religions are a farce.

 

[bignate73]

I am very impressed by your thoughts....

thanks 2thick, i spent a long time wrestling with what was instilled in me from a youth and had to come to my own conclusions. it was difficult and to be honest, i was pretty messed up as child with regards to religion. it was almost debilitating the way i was fearful of a christian's god's wrath. i finally broke free and allowed myself to understand that there could not be a simple explanation that was summed up in one holy book. it was a matter of personal belief, individualized for ones self. even still it may not be true, but if someone lives their life as a good and decent person, any true benevolent god that we may encounter HAS to accept that sacrifice.

peace

 

[Shrebly]

I agree, I believe that God works in mysterious ways......Tuesday's horrific time.....has brought a whole country a lot closer together, more than ever before. I saw all nationalities suffering, helping, praying together. This chat board has been devoid of the usual derogatory insults, racist, hateful posts that normally govern it. Before Tuesday, you could not have gotten so many different ethnic groups together for any reason other than enertainment. Now look at where we are headed. And yes some religions are a farce.

And just like every other event that hit America and pulled them together - it will be fresh in everyone memory for a few weeks then back to the same old 'live for yourself' attitude.

Look at ANY event that has taken the USA by storm - be it the death of JFK or the Oklahoma bombing or any other event - and tell me how long Americans bonded together as one - how long the flag flew proudly ... etc etc etc blah blah blah.

And don;t worry, the chat board will return to its normal IQ draining posts soon enough.

 

[J-Ro]

"Mysterious ways" my ass. I'm sure God would deliberately allow thousands of people to die because he has some master plan that us little humans are too stupid to understand.

 

[HelenSL]

After years of having religion shoved at my from every angle, being told to trust a "god" that created us in his image yet allows some of the worlds events happen and after going to church 5 days a week for 8 years of grade school and 6 days a week in high school - I am still no fucking closer to understanding what the hell it's all about.

If you believe in the bible that's all fine and good, if you place trust in an unseen entity - hey - that's your issue not mine. But when I read stories about the priests driving BMW's and the members of the church saying "he deserves it - he gave up his life for "god" " - sorry that's bullshit. Some of those people go to church and donate money that they should really be using for their family etc.

In the past when I doubted my "faith" I was always reminded that ... "god never gives you more than you can handle". If that's the case then what the fuck was the message behind WTC? For Americans to stand tall and join as one?

Sorry but I am no longer a Roman Catholic, Christian or believer in organized religion of any kind. What "god" could allow something this devastating to happen? Sorry, the next time I look for guidance it will be towards nature, the stars and the waves at the ocean.

I don't think anyone who thinks it's impossible to believe in God given the way life is, ought to have pressure on them to believe.

I thought that's what freedom of religion is all about.

One thing we've seen this week is what extreme, loveless religion leads to. Let the church take note and look at whether it is in anyway similar...

love
Helen

 

[liftsiron]

Wesdog, man said that god said, the only way to heven was through Jesus Christ. How is it possible to have a personal relationship with someone that has been dead for more than 2000 years? You can pray to this being all you want, and unless you are insane you never hear a response. Jesus may have been little more than a master trickster, the Doug Henning of his time. Or he may have been the son of some god, who in this age knows one way or another? I sure don't.

 

[Jeff_rys]

After years of having religion shoved at my from every angle, being told to trust a "god" that created us in his image yet allows some of the worlds events happen and after going to church 5 days a week for 8 years of grade school and 6 days a week in high school - I am still no fucking closer to understanding what the hell it's all about.

If you believe in the bible that's all fine and good, if you place trust in an unseen entity - hey - that's your issue not mine. But when I read stories about the priests driving BMW's and the members of the church saying "he deserves it - he gave up his life for "god" " - sorry that's bullshit. Some of those people go to church and donate money that they should really be using for their family etc.

In the past when I doubted my "faith" I was always reminded that ... "god never gives you more than you can handle". If that's the case then what the fuck was the message behind WTC? For Americans to stand tall and join as one?

Sorry but I am no longer a Roman Catholic, Christian or believer in organized religion of any kind. What "god" could allow something this devastating to happen? Sorry, the next time I look for guidance it will be towards nature, the stars and the waves at the ocean.

What took you so long?

 

[Rex]

I don't really agree w/ organized religion's way of life like no sex before marraige, no gambling, ect., but I do have faith in God.

I like to read that story called footprints when I'm feeling like God isn't there. Its the one w/ the guy who looks back on his life and in the sand sees two sets of foot prints when he looks back, and then at the hard times he sees only one set and asks God why he wasn't next to him during the rough spots of life, and God says those were the times I was carrying you.

 

[HelenSL]

Wesdog, man said that god said, the only way to heven was through Jesus Christ. How is it possible to have a personal relationship with someone that has been dead for more than 2000 years? You can pray to this being all you want, and unless you are insane you never hear a response. Jesus may have been little more than a master trickster, the Doug Henning of his time. Or he may have been the son of some god, who in this age knows one way or another? I sure don't.

Insane - or recreational drugs might do it too, I think...

(I'm not recommending them though!!!)

I think I must have got ripped off then because I never heard anything even when I was most ill...it was only my thoughts...I thought maybe some of them were His...I dunno...

I guess only time will tell

But I've never heard voices...

love
Helen

 

[dmd]

Religion is one of the biggest con jobs / scams in human history!

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" Blaise Pascal

"If you read your history you will know that God is one of the leading causes of death and has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Moslems, Christians, Jews, all taking turns killing one another, because told them it was a good idea. The sword of God, the blood of the lamb, vengeance is mine. Millions of dead people.
All because they gave the wrong answer to the God Question:
"Do you believe in God?"
"No."
BAM! Dead
"How about you? Do you believe in God?"
"Yes"
"Do you believe in MY God?"
"No"
BAM! Dead " george carlin

http://www.valleyskeptic.com/george.htm

Religions take in billions of dollars yet they PAY NO TAXES. In other words they do not contribute one iota to the well being of this our United States of America. All they do is TAKE TAKE TAKE. Take advantage and bully and push their views on to us all via laws and legislature. They are as thick as thieves in Washington D.C. I find it disgusting.

Just read what Jerrey Falwell says about "the attack" (with Pat Robertson nodded in agreement)
"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

Extremists NUTS! But the scary part is that there are lots (millions) of ignorant people out there who (will) believe that crap just because he says it. Sheep. Lots and lots of sheep around the world.

 

[Poopy Butt]

What I think

I know no one respects me on this board but here is what I think.

God and religion are two separate things.

Religion, Christianity for example, attempts to take the basic beliefs of the Holy Bible, and turn them into legalistic traditions.

Having faith in God is something different from the harsh rules governing Christianity. You will find when you know God for youself, that His plan for your life is not a book of rules that you must study, its something that is "written" inside of your heart. Pursue God and you will see that He's great. Pursue an organized, legalistic, religion, and you will get frustrated. Organized Christianity is worthless, but having a faith in God Almighty will do alot of good.

 

[Shrebly]

What I find most comical is the 'bible'. A book written over and over by hand - you know copy machines and carbon paper didn’t always exist.

If monks and other religious people were the ones who were making copies of the book by hand, can you say for sure that some of the information was not changed along the way to embellish 'god' - to make Jesus look like a miracle working madman? This is the book we are told to place out faith in, to read from and to use in time of comfort. How can someone who hasn't been brainwashed by the church look at this book and believe every word in it?

The bible is nothing more than a book of fiction - none of the events can be proven, none of the people can be documented and none of the events can be proven. So before you start talking about the Shroud or Noah's Ark - these were nothing more than coincidences. Millions of people were buried in tattered wrappings - and the impressions left on the cloth were from dirt, oil secreted from the skin during decomposition and man made oils that were rubbed over the body.

If someone can show me one solid piece of evidence that any event in the bible took place I will gladly rethink my stand on the subject. It’s all hearsay, word of mouth and stories that were twisted and rearranged to make for a good read.

The fact that there is Pope that rules the religion is offensive. If you are suppose to have a relationship with “god” why is there the need for a middle man that has a title of Pope or pontiff? Looks at the billions of dollars that this one religion rakes in every year and all the while they pass the collection plate begging for more. Look at the breaks they get when it comes to property tax, utilities, income tax [none], free housing etc.

Sorry but a religion that isn’t willing to change the rules to accommodate that changing world is outdated…. But let them drive around in expensive, parish provided vehicles, take trips to Rome “for business”, unlimited expense accounts etc … sure, that seems perfectly ok.

 

[Hannibal]

Ok I generally stear clear of religious debates as it is not my place to force my beliefs onto others. And that is not my intent here. But this post just really disurbs me. When ones faith in an omnipotent intetity is tested...some throw up their hands very quickly. If there were a God that was "small" enough for humans to understand...then how could he be LARGE enough to control all living things. And for those of you that do not believe in a God...what is your alternative?? If there is just LIGHTS OUT at the end...then why live a good life at all. Get everything that you can...because you can't take it with you.

As for my beliefs I will not go into great detail. But as for the WTC...I don't see why this tragedy would cause one to lose faith. If I believed in God...and my ultimate goal was heaven and the hereafter...then why would it matter if I died at 19 or 100. The hereafter that God offers to people is FOREVER. Even someone that lives 100 years has just scratched the surface. Death has always been an interesting topic for me. If I believe that people go to heaven when they die, because they believe, then why should I grieve for them?? Seems that the only person that I would be grieving for in that situation is myself...and that seems a bit selfish.

Now to say that God and organized religion are one and the same is rediculous. I have long since given up on organized religion. I do however have a relationship with God...and it does not make me insane as was suggested earlier. Everyone has to find their own way in this world...and I have mine.

 

[J-Ro]

What I find most comical is the 'bible'. A book written over and over by hand - you know copy machines and carbon paper didn’t always exist.

If monks and other religious people were the ones who were making copies of the book by hand, can you say for sure that some of the information was not changed along the way to embellish 'god' - to make Jesus look like a miracle working madman? This is the book we are told to place out faith in, to read from and to use in time of comfort. How can someone who hasn't been brainwashed by the church look at this book and believe every word in it?

Exactly, god doesn't write books (sorry Muslims). It is my belief that most of the bible and other like religious works came out of people's need to grasp the world around them. They wanted explanation of the creation of the world. They wanted to know how the sun set, and where the moon and stars came from. They were pretty much trying to make their existence in this massive universe, more important.

Out of ignorance, came the explanations. People wanted things rationalized. Since 99% of the world was illterate, it was most likely easy for the pen holders to make them believe the wild explanations that they could come up with. They had no grasp of science, so they came up with divine answers to knowledge that's common today. It's interesting to note that all of the world's major religions came at a point when the world was at it a very low point intellectually and scientifically.

 

[bignate73]

i like alot how freud sums up religion and god in the book "the future of an illusion". made alot of sense to me. may not for others but it worked well for my mind.

peace

 

[Shrebly]

i like alot how freud sums up religion and god in the book "the future of an illusion". made alot of sense to me. may not for others but it worked well for my mind.

peace

Who's the author?

 

[bignate73]

sigmund freud.

its a short "book" if you could call it that. i read it in about 3 hours.

 

[cyberflash]

GOD WAS SAYING .....

SORRY USA , PAYBACK TIME !

US waged war in early 1990s with the gulf war ... although not intended ... civilians in the middle east were also killed ... and this was war INSIDE their cities ... CIA also sponsored wars in other countries ...

2001 ... the Empire strikes back ... wage war INSIDE American cities (NY and Washington DC) .. to get back to us ... and make us realize what warzone is really like.

so if we wage war against them now ..... go after the perpetrators ... they hide .. they run ... but their sons and daughters live ...

there kids grow up ... another retribution in 2010 ? 2015? 2020 ? well ...

violence ... begets violence ... an endless cycle

hatred is not forgotten ... go to the Netherlands and France and they will still say they don't like the Germans. No sir, they have not forgotten World War 2 .. and that was 60 years ago.

WE SHOULD PRAY ...

 

[Shrebly]

Re: GOD WAS SAYING .....

SORRY USA , PAYBACK TIME !

US waged war in early 1990s with the gulf war ... although not intended ... civilians in the middle east were also killed ... and this was war INSIDE their cities ... CIA also sponsored wars in other countries ...

2001 ... the Empire strikes back ... wage war INSIDE American cities (NY and Washington DC) .. to get back to us ... and make us realize what warzone is really like.

so if we wage war against them now ..... go after the perpetrators ... they hide .. they run ... but their sons and daughters live ...

there kids grow up ... another retribution in 2010 ? 2015? 2020 ? well ...

violence ... begets violence ... an endless cycle

hatred is not forgotten ... go to the Netherlands and France and they will still say they don't like the Germans. No sir, they have not forgotten World War 2 .. and that was 60 years ago.

WE SHOULD PRAY ...

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind.

 

[HelenSL]

What I find most comical is the 'bible'. A book written over and over by hand - you know copy machines and carbon paper didn’t always exist.

If monks and other religious people were the ones who were making copies of the book by hand, can you say for sure that some of the information was not changed along the way to embellish 'god' - to make Jesus look like a miracle working madman? This is the book we are told to place out faith in, to read from and to use in time of comfort. How can someone who hasn't been brainwashed by the church look at this book and believe every word in it?

The bible is nothing more than a book of fiction - none of the events can be proven, none of the people can be documented and none of the events can be proven. So before you start talking about the Shroud or Noah's Ark - these were nothing more than coincidences. Millions of people were buried in tattered wrappings - and the impressions left on the cloth were from dirt, oil secreted from the skin during decomposition and man made oils that were rubbed over the body.

If someone can show me one solid piece of evidence that any event in the bible took place I will gladly rethink my stand on the subject. It’s all hearsay, word of mouth and stories that were twisted and rearranged to make for a good read.

The fact that there is Pope that rules the religion is offensive. If you are suppose to have a relationship with “god” why is there the need for a middle man that has a title of Pope or pontiff? Looks at the billions of dollars that this one religion rakes in every year and all the while they pass the collection plate begging for more. Look at the breaks they get when it comes to property tax, utilities, income tax [none], free housing etc.

Sorry but a religion that isn’t willing to change the rules to accommodate that changing world is outdated…. But let them drive around in expensive, parish provided vehicles, take trips to Rome “for business”, unlimited expense accounts etc … sure, that seems perfectly ok.

You don't have to be a Christian Shrebly but actually there is evidence that some stuff in the Bible took place and also when Jews made handcopies they would check them by doing stuff like counting the number of letters and checking the middle letter matched...if it didn't they'd bury that copy and start again.

So it hasn't changed much actually...

If you believe it's God's Words you aren't gonna mess with it -that's the other thing.

When they found a scroll of the book of Isaiah a THOUSAND years older than any they had to date, in the dead sea scrolls, it was very close to what they already had, confirming the accuracy of the coping...

If you wanted to look into these things there's lot's of stuff on the Internet. But you don't sound as if you want to right now, with all due respect. If you ever do, though, it's there...

love
Helen

 

[liftsiron]

I agree with you poopy religion often has little to do with the concept of god.

 

[Adaptek]

Re: God doesn't have to be found through religion

If you actually TRY and TALK to God you will find Him yourself.

Good point!

 

[spongebob]

cyberflash:

"violence ... begets violence ... an endless cycle "


unfortunately praying does not beget praying, being passive does not beget passive behavior niether. there are aggressive people in this world, there always has been and always will be. when you pray your enemy preys!